Question: How do LA owners generate income? (Several questions)

[Shard-Angel]

Greets.

Besides the standard:
** Hunting tax (is max cap is 5%?)
** Mining tax (is max cap is 5%?)
** Shopkeepers (is max cap is 2.5%?)

And regular promotion events involving the above hunting/mining - how does any LA generate income?

HUNTING:
* Do LA owners get % cut of EACH ammo shot decay on land?
* Do LA owners get % cut of any looted creature (regardless of amount looted)?
* Or do LA owners only get % cut of hunting HoFs/Globals?

MINING:
* Do LA owners get % cut of EACH probe decay on land?
* Do LA owners get % cut of any mineral "claim" extracted?
* Or do LA owners only get % cut of mining HoFs/Globals?
** If miner does not extract (for any reason) his/her claim (and its wasted) - do LA owners still get their % share?

EVENTS:
** Certain avatars hold events - eg Jamming. Is that only for designated event zones? Or can those be done on any LA? And do they generate income for LA owner?

TAXES:
* I understand miners dont like to mine in taxed zones. Is this true for hunters as well?
* What % tax is acceptable to actively attract miners/hunters to come a LA regularly?
* Will above tax % be enough for LA owners to have decent returns on his/her investment?
* I also understand miners prefer untaxed zones (which are usually pvp loot enabled) - is the risk worth the trouble?
* How often do pvp-miners get looted? (Yes I am aware of vehicle recalling, rocket launchers and flights out).

PVP:
Is there any benefit (besides piracy) to have pvp enabled in a (non-landgrab) LA (assuming its not a society LA)?

Many thanks.

 

[danimal01]

owners receive a percentage of what is looted/purchased.

~Danimal

 

[mastermesh]

* I also understand miners prefer untaxed zones (which are usually pvp loot enabled) - is the risk worth the trouble?

some miners stay close to the edge of the pvp zone and try utilize summon claim. could be urban legend - never tried it.

PVP:
Is there any benefit (besides piracy) to have pvp enabled in a (non-landgrab) LA (assuming its not a society LA)?

not really I'd think, except for the fun factor. I think someone once set a mall to pvp just for shits and grins...

** Shopkeepers (is max cap is 2.5%?)

I think that's right... might be wrong on it since I'm not an LA owner... but I think shop tax is set rate - it might be able to go up, but I don't think they have that programmed in to the system right now?... Reason for 2.5% is because minimum markup in shop is +1 ped, so full minimum markup with taxes is +1.02 (another reason the brown coats win since auctions can have markup below +1)... that way one pec tax goes to estate owner and one goes to LA owner, which in some cases, such as at the Emerald Lake Malls is the same owner... and in other cases, such as at Omegaton, Sakura and Genesis is all MA - one pec to Kim's team and one for the home team in Sweden (would be to PP and MA in the case of other planets until such time the PP sells the LA deed to someone else - legitimately - doing it illegitimately is something that got DA Manager in trouble a while back)

 

[danimal01]

some miners stay close to the edge of the pvp zone and utilize summon claim.

They can do this all they want but it will not let you summon a claim outside of the zone. I have tried and tried and tried but failed each time

~Danimal

 

[antonioliveira]

AFAIK there's no "besides the standard".

LA owners only get a % of what is looted and/or mined.

 

[mastermesh]

They can do this all they want but it will not let you summon a claim outside of the zone. I have tried and tried and tried but failed each time

~Danimal

Glad to hear that that doesn't work. I'm not much of a miner (yet)

 

[shoti]

Greets.

Besides the standard:
** Hunting tax (is max cap is 5%?)
** Mining tax (is max cap is 5%?)
** Shopkeepers (is max cap is 2.5%?)

And regular promotion events involving the above hunting/mining - how does any LA generate income?

HUNTING:
* Do LA owners get % cut of EACH ammo shot decay on land?
* Do LA owners get % cut of any looted creature (regardless of amount looted)?
* Or do LA owners only get % cut of hunting HoFs/Globals?

MINING:
* Do LA owners get % cut of EACH probe decay on land?
* Do LA owners get % cut of any mineral "claim" extracted?
* Or do LA owners only get % cut of mining HoFs/Globals?
** If miner does not extract (for any reason) his/her claim (and its wasted) - do LA owners still get their % share?

EVENTS:
** Certain avatars hold events - eg Jamming. Is that only for designated event zones? Or can those be done on any LA? And do they generate income for LA owner?

TAXES:
* I understand miners dont like to mine in taxed zones. Is this true for hunters as well?
* What % tax is acceptable to actively attract miners/hunters to come a LA regularly?
* Will above tax % be enough for LA owners to have decent returns on his/her investment?
* I also understand miners prefer untaxed zones (which are usually pvp loot enabled) - is the risk worth the trouble?
* How often do pvp-miners get looted? (Yes I am aware of vehicle recalling, rocket launchers and flights out).

PVP:
Is there any benefit (besides piracy) to have pvp enabled in a (non-landgrab) LA (assuming its not a society LA)?

Many thanks.

1. Max cap for tax setting is 10% - min is 0%

2. Shopkeeper tax is fixed

3. Value of tax came from hunting and mining loots. Mob spawned in borders of LA same like claim bring tax value to LA owner no mater if claim is draged out of those borders or mob is killed out of border - spawn moment counts. Not extracting claim and not looting dead mob not affect LA incomes ( did some experiments on that when OLA#54 was fresh and not much hapened on it (i wasnt extracting mining global on 10% tax seting - however thats not 100 % sure. )

4. As value of tax depend of tax setting and loot value still it is not 100% certain that peds fro LA owner revenue comes from reducing hunter /miner loot - however some old Falkao experimnets support thesis that it is indeed.

5. Events can be hold by LA owner or any other avatar if events are set to be aviable public. Most LA owners disable that functions. Tax will go then to LA owners, tickets cash to organizer. That is also fluent as there is posibility of organizing events when organizer buy all tickets at claim marker and sell them personally. Never tried that, i gues event organizers have better knowledge about that

6. As for tax acceptance all depend on what LA it is. Bigger/ rarer mobs and beter resources makes ppl use LA no mater tax certain value. Widely spread is 4-5% tax, and as I experimented seting tax over or under that value cause lot of flaming in comunity. I was testing long time ALL values from 0,00 to 10,0%.

Heavy amped miners (lvl 10 +) seems care less abiu tax, as they are looking for huge hit anyway so in their case highly taxed area is even beter ( as chances for being wiped at their depth before are smaler - lot of miners belive that)

LA at 0% tax can also bring incomes to owner. Checked that method with shopkeper and overpriced ammo stacks. It is basing on free donations. It doesn't work well, but results are beter than minimal tax settings.

8. As for incomes it again strongly depends on what kind of LA it is. I can only say from own experience with Big exas and Proteron LA (1-1,5 year back)

NE Segna Arctic Exa's Camp was giving 10-15 ped/ day wchich barely covered DNA upkeep of few samples and up to 50 peds while doing events. List for event performed there is here:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...egna-Arctic-Exa-s-Camp-events-list&highlight=

Proterons Field Lab was giving 300-700 ped/day and up to 2000 peds/day during events
List here:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...54-Proterons-Field-Lab-events-list&highlight=
... but looking at actual no of globs I doubt if that can be sustained in curent economy. Such incomes easy covered upkeep of DNA and prizes for events. Even often changing of density/maturity wchich cost a lot.


Hope that info help you somehow

 

[FallenAngel]

TAXES:
* I understand miners dont like to mine in taxed zones. Is this true for hunters as well?
* What % tax is acceptable to actively attract miners/hunters to come a LA regularly?

I think from my pov as a miner the problem is that or markup isnt what it used to be and many LA owners set their taxes at around 5% for mining, this comes out of my TT return, if the 5% loss in TT is not covered by high markup resources there are many other places to mine. It doesnt help that MA recently drastically reduced the availability of a few of the decent markup ores on calypso that did make it worth mining LA's for me.
I think the situation is slightly different for hunting, sometimes it is more enjoyable/better to be able to hunt a decent spawn of a mob at the right maturity for your skills, something that could be harder to find on untaxed land.

 

[dr3w]

I will just share my thoughts, what would I do, if I had LA for mining:

1. Tax.

First, I would check all resources available at LA. Most important is AVG MU for whole of them. For example, if LA contains ruga, dunkel, redu, kane (or other rares, semi-rares), - it doesn't mean, that tax should skyrocket immediately, if it does - LA owner doesn't understand mining and what he is doing. Very often good resources is accompanied with utter shit like crude, melchi, sweetstuff, blau, cave - well, you get idea - all what is between 100%-110% range. (personally, I putting resource in "shit" category when it falls under 120%)

This is not simple to go at LA, mining fast all stuff, just summ it MU and calc AVG MU. There is another thing - % of distribution. For example: good, old Oyster in the PAST (now it's belkar paradise). Niksarium and belkar. Simple to calc - if niks is 145%, and belkar is 115% (imaginable numbers) - then, AVG is 130%? No way. Distribution at Oyster was 70% of Niks, and 29% of Belk. (29% - since there was some lyst and blau in couple of thin places). So, actually, AVG MU is HIGHER than 130%.

So, availability of high MU stuff doesn't means that it wise to tax a lot. Also, small detail: noobs. They don't even reach redu, ruga etc - but big amount of noobs can bring nice tax, innit?

Special ecofagging™ calculation can include REFINING of resources too, since lyst, alternative, blau, belk and other - is more expensive to refine than niks and other high-TT-per-stone resources. It's pecs ofc, but - if you show up your intentions and will show SUCH respect to miners in your calculations... you know.

Tax should reflect current economical situation, instead of putting miners in negative over time. If I had LA _now_ - I would put MAXIMUM 3%.

2. Events and interaction with miners.

Even if you don't understand mining - just ask experienced miners (but not ecofags!) - would they mine on that LA, and if not - why? They will explain in detail.

For example, LA contains lyst (105%), blau (105%), gazz (120%), cobalt (130%). Well, let's skip % of distribution, and take it as equal. So we got there shitty 115% AVG, actually. Taxes of even 3% will get it further to 112, thus, make that land available for mining being just UNAMPED.

What would I do, if I had such LA? I would compensate "shithits" to miners. If I had 3% tax, and someone hit lyst or blau tower (or even globals and hofs, supported with screens and tracker) - I just paid back 2% of amount. Or even all 3%, in case of hitting utter shit like Crude Oil.

Events - fully separate theme, but in advance I would say: bullshit like "hit tower and get nice 1k ped back" - is nonsense for experienced miners, especially, when they should grind MU-shit on that LA. They know what is it - tower. Events must be based not on big hits, but on something other (read above about compensation, for example), attracting noobs with those flashy messages - just short term stuff.

Well, you get idea, I think.

 

[jupiajo]

You can't summon claims between areas.

 

[dr3w]

Greets.
* I also understand miners prefer untaxed zones (which are usually pvp loot enabled) - is the risk worth the trouble?

Seems like you think, that whole Amethera (untaxed, non-LA) - is lootable PVP? No. It's simple PVP. Lootable PVPs are toxic ones, (red on map).

 

[TACUTTING]

And a LA set for PVP is never able to be lootable area

 

[Shard-Angel]

Thanks for the excellent and informative input from everyone. Several perpectives I had not considered as well.

Much appreciated.