How does loot work?

[Zavy]

To me:
All ammo used should be converted into items that can be sold to other players with a markup.(Otherwise I am gambling)

All decay and fees(auction/shop) is paid to Planet Owner. All Taxes are paid to Land Owners.

So is this true and if so why do people say they loose so much when working at their profession?
If the return rate on the 3 major professions is 80% (example) then what happens to the other 20%?

Does MindArk concider markup at the time part of our loot? If so, that is outrageous. Or does that feed the HoF's?

Also how do skills fit in? It cost the company nothing to give skills so it shouldn't be calculated as loot. 10% is already taken, plus the decay of the tools to extract them. Skills and loot are the commodity we as players have to make our profession worth doing.


If it is not this way do you believe that it should be this way?

 

[Corey 'Greyfox']

MA has said it does not care about the markup of items so we can assume they do not consider that in loot. As for the skills, well they can be sold and thus have a TT value so I imagine they are calculated into the loot. You ever notice when you get a lot more then normal skill gains on a mob it's loot sucks on average?
Just my 2pec

 

[Huskie]

*facedesk*

I really don't understand why some people have so much trouble considering ammo as decay, too.

When it was officially stated that the powers that be "get their revenue off decay", it was immediately assumed by most people that it was referring to deduction of TT value on items with condition bars only (which is rather mistaken, because nowhere in the game that phenomenon is referred to officially as "decay").

What is more likely the case, is that what they meant with decay, is not only deduction of TT value from items with condition bars, but also the using up of stackables (after all, in a sense, they are "decaying" as well, by being gradually used up). That means decay would also include ammo, probes, bombs, and materials used in crafting attempts, thus meaning they make their revenue off of all professions, which would make a lot more sense, but also inevitably makes their statement look rather obvious.

So all in all, that statement merely means, that as you cycle PEDs, and inherently end up getting less and less loot back, due to the system not being designed to let everyone make money out of the game in the long run, you'll have to eventually deposit to keep going, and that's where their revenue comes from.

I thought people would be more savvy in reading any official statements between the lines by now, than taking them for face-value, especially for old players like yourselves.

 

[KijkkiJikki]

The short answer is that's not how it works.

I'm not going to worry about should's cos if we go there then all of your HOFs are belong to me.

I know very little but mining or crafting so will leave those alone too.

In hunting:
We are led to believe that loot returned from a mob is random but depends on amount of damage done to the mob. How that relates to an individual's ammo use and decay depends on how eco an individual's hunting setup is, relative to their skills. The rule of thumb is that the average return TT over the long term is approx 90% of ammo plus decay expended.

Many people dispute the 90% figure. I am not going to argue who is correct. I don't have the data to draw a conclusion from.

We are led to believe that all decay and fees do NOT go to the planet partner but that an unknown proportion of decay is removed from the loot pool and is treated as revenue to be split between MA and the planet partner. The rest goes back to the loot pool and is available for redistribution.

There has been discussion as to whether ammo that is used, is simply decayed 100% and therefore included in revenue for the planet partner or if it all goes to loot pool.

There has been discussion that MA profits are actually PEDs deposited via PEDs withdrawn so that decay and such are irrelevant to them.

And of course there has been numerous discussion re how the loot pool works and presumably if it even exists as one enitity, planet based pools, individual based pools etc.

As far as I know all LA taxes go to the owner.

We are led to believe that MU value is not included in loot value calculation. However, it is possible that the balance team considers MU in working out the makeup of loot since MU is one indication of relative scarcity.

I am ignorant of the skill gain processes. From what I have read it is related to the amount of PED expended. I've read nothing to suggest it is part of the loot calculation.

As you can see, there is a lot of speculation and few facts. However quite a few people have tracked their returns over a long period to try to gain and understanding of the underlying system.

Hope this helps.
KikkiJikki

 

[sdragonfire]

To me:
All ammo used should be converted into items that can be sold to other players with a markup.(Otherwise I am gambling)

All decay and fees(auction/shop) is paid to Planet Owner. All Taxes are paid to Land Owners.

So is this true and if so why do people say they loose so much when working at their profession?
If the return rate on the 3 major professions is 80% (example) then what happens to the other 20%?

Does MindArk concider markup at the time part of our loot? If so, that is outrageous. Or does that feed the HoF's?

Also how do skills fit in? It cost the company nothing to give skills so it shouldn't be calculated as loot. 10% is already taken, plus the decay of the tools to extract them. Skills and loot are the commodity we as players have to make our profession worth doing.


If it is not this way do you believe that it should be this way?

it does work this way, but takes alot of kills(loots) to get to the correct average return. Reason ppl lose is because either they stop too soon, or are killing a mob that they feasably can't kill enough in time at they're level/setup to get to avg return.

 

[JohnCapital]

To me:
All ammo used should be converted into items that can be sold to other players with a markup.

*facedesk*

I really don't understand why some people have so much trouble considering ammo as decay, too.

The reason is simple: Zavy's comment is typical of someone who's done 99% of their hunting using laser weapons. High ammo to decay ratio.

They forget the issue of other weapons, such as:

• BLP (low ammo/high decay)
• Melee (no ammo/all decay)
• Mindforce (variable)
• Explosives
• Etc. etc.

However, if we skip the faux pas and ASSume he meant weapon TT usage (meaning ammo+decay) should be converted to loot, then he's pretty much on track.

The main problem is learning how much of that TT usage is returned, and how wild the swings of a run can be from that long-term average.

 

[jjmatrix]

This TEST might give some insight.

 

[Zavy]

*facedesk*

I really don't understand why some people have so much trouble considering ammo as decay, too.

When it was officially stated that the powers that be "get their revenue off decay", it was immediately assumed by most people that it was referring to deduction of TT value on items with condition bars only (which is rather mistaken, because nowhere in the game that phenomenon is referred to officially as "decay").

What is more likely the case, is that what they meant with decay, is not only deduction of TT value from items with condition bars, but also the using up of stackables (after all, in a sense, they are "decaying" as well, by being gradually used up). That means decay would also include ammo, probes, bombs, and materials used in crafting attempts, thus meaning they make their revenue off of all professions, which would make a lot more sense, but also inevitably makes their statement look rather obvious.

So all in all, that statement merely means, that as you cycle PEDs, and inherently end up getting less and less loot back, due to the system not being designed to let everyone make money out of the game in the long run, you'll have to eventually deposit to keep going, and that's where their revenue comes from.

I thought people would be more savvy in reading any official statements between the lines by now, than taking them for face-value, especially for old players like yourselves.

It might make more sense if they defined everything so we didn't have to read between the lines. A company should say what they mean and mean what they say. I could assume anything.

You bring a new view to my attention. I did assume that decay only counted deterioration, not the use of the item as in crafting.

I guess the obvious question that could shine some light on this, would be do you loot better using blp vs laser? As blp the gun decays more, uses less ammo. Laser is vice versa. I understand melee uses 100% decay, but that might help the statement you made above.

The idea behind this post is to understand how come everyone complains of losses. I believe that a player should receive 100% of the ammo used to hunt back in TT items. This would then let the hunter sell his/her loot at the markup other players are willing to pay. Win/Win. MA then takes the decay. Skilling up would lower your decay cost giving you incentive to skill up.

So I was hoping someone could shed some light on why I am getting less than what is invested.
As for miners, that is more chance. So not sure what rules that follows. Does that mean eventually I will hit because I missed so much?

As for crafting, I can see getting 90% with lower skills, but at some point you should be at 99.99% if you are a master crafter who wants to bust out some basic wires. The 'chance of success' is obviously stated for that profession.

 

[Zavy]

To John: I posted the above before reading your reply.

Other weapons would change the outcome if it was set to one way or the other (decay/ammo). I don't think you should get back decay though, just the ammo (unless melee). I do feel you should get back 100% of invested 'killing' ammo. Also the other professions have higher skill markup making the extra decay you pay even out.
Its all very confusing, but something isn't right. Not to mention the cost to play is suppose to be $1/hr or something like that.

This TEST might give some insight.

Thanks for the link, interesting.

 

[Rutabaga]

We are led to believe that MU value is not included in loot value calculation. However, it is possible that the balance team considers MU in working out the makeup of loot since MU is one indication of relative scarcity.

I would tend to agree with this statement...
41.5 prospector (no chipping), using OF-105/VRX2000 as main finders.

When I switch to VRX2000, I NEVER have a good/average run made even better by a rare ore claim. It is always a horrible run made not-as-bad by a rare claim, or (in the case of my last run) two V xere claims within 20 bombs, then two crappy sized claims in 40+ bombs... of course, these are completely unscientific statements as I do not track my long term results, but don't worry they're just fine

Notice an increase in gazzurdite hofs lately? Maybe they happened because everyone was trying to mine gazz for the higher markup. Or maybe because I was hogging 20k+ tt of it from my last tower, and sold almost half of it last week because of the markup, thus making more gazz used up by the crafters and added back into the loot pool/economy balancing/whatever theory you believe. You decide.

 

[DoubleWolf]

The idea behind this post is to understand how come everyone complains of losses. I believe that a player should receive 100% of the ammo used to hunt back in TT items. This would then let the hunter sell his/her loot at the markup other players are willing to pay. Win/Win. MA then takes the decay. Skilling up would lower your decay cost giving you incentive to skill up.

So when I do some shortblade hunting, I should receive no loot at all, since I'm not using ammo?

 

[Qwackers]

When it was officially stated that the powers that be "get their revenue off decay", it was immediately assumed by most people that it was referring to deduction of TT value on items with condition bars only (which is rather mistaken, because nowhere in the game that phenomenon is referred to officially as "decay").

It's an old quote from 2005 but there are other latter ones as well if you dig:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...adly-(Not-Whiny)&p=92752&viewfull=1#post92752

No, MindArks revenue stream is from decay. So it is not an urban legend. All other areas (auction fee, ammo, etc) is cycled back into the economy.

..and again in 2006.

MA makes money on decay on item usage. All other monies are transferred back into the Entropia economy.

We take revenue from decay, we never stated that all decay is revenue though.

There has been no statement to contradict this (to the players at least) during that time so, are we going to call Marco a liar?

 

[Huskie]

It's an old quote from 2005 but there are other latter ones as well if you dig:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?7325-Look-here-if-ur-loosing-badly-(Not-Whiny)&p=92752&viewfull=1#post92752


..and again in 2006.




There has been no statement to contradict this (to the players at least) during that time so, are we going to call Marco a liar?

I don't care when it was said. Besides, 2005 and 2006 are pretty damn old statements for a "dynamic" game such as this, if you ask me.

What I was saying on my other post is that it's very likely interpreted wrong by most people, since they never really define what they mean with "decay".

And yes, when he says ammo is cycled back into the economy I believe he's either mistaken, lying or not telling the whole story (for example, he might have meant the larger part of the cycled PEDs goes back into the economy, which would endorse the (100-x)% return on the long run theory). None of the other professions other than ranged hunting would make any sense otherwise.

 

[BlackHawk]

The loot works better and better.

 

[00Dan]

It doesn't.

 

[DoubleWolf]

There has been no statement to contradict this (to the players at least) during that time so, are we going to call Marco a liar?

I am.

MA does NOT make money from decay

Simply because looking at their financials, we know that MA gets their revenue from deposits. Given the information provided, there is no possible way that they can ALSO make money from the act of decay. The only thing decay does is reduce the number of peds in circulation which in turn stimulates depositing.

Since he was wrong, or at least misleading in that regard, then what's to say the rest of his quotes are correct either?

 

[Xavier_Jr]

I am.

MA does NOT make money from decay

Simply because looking at their financials, we know that MA gets their revenue from deposits. Given the information provided, there is no possible way that they can ALSO make money from the act of decay. The only thing decay does is reduce the number of peds in circulation which in turn stimulates depositing.

Since he was wrong, or at least misleading in that regard, then what's to say the rest of his quotes are correct either?

(I put in graphic a return rate of 0.9, however economy is dynamic and depends upon deposits and economy of the enterprise. Maybe this rate is defined by bussiness policies and reports from balancing team)

 

[Infinity01]

I am.

MA does NOT make money from decay

Simply because looking at their financials, we know that MA gets their revenue from deposits. Given the information provided, there is no possible way that they can ALSO make money from the act of decay. The only thing decay does is reduce the number of peds in circulation which in turn stimulates depositing.

Since he was wrong, or at least misleading in that regard, then what's to say the rest of his quotes are correct either?

Imagine a situation.... you've deposited $2000 and you did nothing... no hunting , mining or crafting, and didn't buy anything......the peds were there for 1 yr...... and then you withdrew.

So, MA got nothing (except transaction fee... not sure who gets it though).

Therefore, I think MA needs decay, either in the form of ammo or weapon... the more decay you do the more MA gets (10% of the deacy)...... MA's return is directly proportional to activity......and that's why MA loves high end players with heavy grinding.... and MA rewards them with high MU items.

As i've posted earlier.... this MU is in part diverting money from the loot pool to the pedcard card of uber players.... they in turn playing more converting non-uber player deposited money into a larger loot pool at a faster rate (or they can take money out of the system... and many do)....and I think this is fair....

So, in my opinion the more you play (decay) the more you put into the loot pool.....and you can't withdrow more than your deposit (after decaying it) unless you gain in the form of high MU items....(except rare uber hof by a newbie )

The following graph illustrates how your peds vanishes from your ped card and become MA's revinue over time (to simplistic just to make it easy to understand)

Well, it is not very difficult to do something wrong. If someone do not put attention in MUs (from weapons and tools Vs loot). then easily ocurrs something like this:



This is an exercise, when somebody make sure to get a return rate of 90% (not from TT if not as a whole, including MUs) you can recycled 100 USD as if was 990 USD. However if only assure 70% you can recycled 100 USD as if was 330 USD. But if only assure 50%, you can recycled 100 USD as if was 198 USD. In fact, the way as we play the game affect sensibly the results.

......my 2c

 

[Xavier_Jr]

(I put in graphic a return rate of 0.9, however economy is dynamic and depends upon deposits and economy of the enterprise. Maybe this rate is defined by bussiness policies and reports from balancing team)

The Equation for my graphic is this:

RENUEVE = DEPOSITS - WITHDRAWALS


Because, $ 100 of deposits it could mean $ 200 to $ 1000 of decay, because exists the recycling process, with a return rate and a pool loot. Therefore,

Mindark take its money, only from deposits minus withdrawals, however, Mindark will try to minimize withdrawals, proposing new offers in the game. (Cars, Airships, Events, etc.)

 

[DoubleWolf]

(I put in graphic a return rate of 0.9, however economy is dynamic and depends upon deposits and economy of the enterprise. Maybe this rate is defined by bussiness policies and reports from balancing team)

Imagine a situation.... you've deposited $2000 and you did nothing... no hunting , mining or crafting, and didn't buy anything......the peds were there for 1 yr...... and then you withdrew.

So, MA got nothing (except transaction fee... not sure who gets it though).

Both of these make the false assumption that peds still represent YOUR money while MA is "holding" it. That MA behaves like a bank because they allow you to "deposit" and "withdrawal". For them to operate this way, and for them to make money from decay, we as players would need to be listed as a liability in their financial statements. If this were the case, then decay would reduce this liability, and increase equity which can be seen as profit for shareholders. This profit could also be paid out in dividends to the shareholders if they so choose.

The fact is though, MA does NOT behave like a bank, but like a retail operation. They sell you some virtual goods (peds) and they allow you to redeem those goods, or in other words, buy those goods back from you. Consuming those goods (decay) then does not mean anything to the company, other than it creates a reason for people to buy more goods.

People need to open their eyes and realize that just because MA uses the terms "deposit" and "withdrawal" does not mean they are like a bank and that your peds represent real money that belongs to you. It simply isn't true.

 

[Xavier_Jr]

Both of these make the false assumption that peds still represent YOUR money while MA is "holding" it.....

The only thing in what my idea have difference with your idea is this: Always exists the possibility of withdrawals.

Mindark can not take its money from decay, it is impossible, because it is a dummy amount based in a return rate and a recycling process.

In fact, i did deposits in the game, and I did a withdrawal from my first uberloot too, however, i have left my second uberloot to play in the game. Maybe i could lost it, or maybe i could multiply it (if i can play against the other players with the MUs), because I know that Mindark will win to me always.

 

[aridash]

I believe that a player should receive 100% of the ammo used to hunt back in TT items. This would then let the hunter sell his/her loot at the markup other players are willing to pay. Win/Win. MA then takes the decay.

so why should BLP pay more than laser? why should melee with no ammo have no return? doesnt work does it.

...For them to operate this way, and for them to make money from decay, we as players would need to be listed as a liability in their financial statements. If this were the case, then decay would reduce this liability, and increase equity which can be seen as profit for shareholders.

where does it show that decay (whatever that means exactly) doesn't reduce the liability?

 

[Infinity01]

The fact is though, MA does NOT behave like a bank, but like a retail operation. They sell you some virtual goods (peds) and they allow you to redeem those goods, or in other words, buy those goods back from you. Consuming those goods (decay) then does not mean anything to the company, other than it creates a reason for people to buy more goods.

People need to open their eyes and realize that just because MA uses the terms "deposit" and "withdrawal" does not mean they are like a bank and that your peds represent real money that belongs to you. It simply isn't true.

Well, I don't care if it is called a bank (which i don't think either) or retail operation.

I do think ped (just like currency) means real money as long as one can withdraw it!

 

[Qwackers]

...MA does NOT behave like a bank, but like a retail operation. They sell you some virtual goods (peds) ........
People need to open their eyes and realize that just because MA uses the terms "deposit" and "withdrawal" does not mean they are like a bank and that your peds represent real money that belongs to you. It simply isn't true.

One thing is certain and anyone can ask them this. When you deposit $ MindArk are selling you NOTHING at the point you get those Ped. You do not buy Ped, they are adamant on this.

As for 'like a bank' they are more like a casino, with no lottery or gambling ofcause, trying to be a bank.

 

[DoubleWolf]

where does it show that decay (whatever that means exactly) doesn't reduce the liability?

I know we agree that it reduces the CONTINGENT liability. We've talked about this before. However if it were a REAL liability and accounted for in the balance sheet, reducing it would then equate profit. But since it is not, reducing that amount doesn't really mean anything. It only reduces the amount that could POTENTIALLY be requested to be "withdrawn". But since "withdrawals" are taken out of the monthly "deposits", if everyone requested all their ped today, MA would say, "tough shit, wait til we get more deposits"

One thing is certain and anyone can ask them this. When you deposit $ MindArk are selling you NOTHING at the point you get those Ped. You do not buy Ped, they are adamant on this.

As for 'like a bank' they are more like a casino, with no lottery or gambling ofcause, trying to be a bank.

Precisely

 

[Infinity01]

if everyone requested all their ped today, MA would say, "tough shit, wait til we get more deposits"
Precisely

Consider the following situation:

Say you go to a small country like Grenada....Convert a large amount of $ to it's currency, and use that money to buy real estate or invest into something in huge amount...

Someone else in that country use your deposited $ to import stuff from other countries to the point that your deposited dollar is depleted....

at that point you want to get back your $ after selling all of your stuff....

Do you think you'd be able to withdrew quickly?

I think the same principle might apply to EU when a larger group of players wants to withdraw! (BTW i've not read the EULA...so no clue about it)

 

[DoubleWolf]

Consider the following situation:

Say you go to a small country like Grenada....Convert a large amount of $ to it's currency, and use that money to buy real estate or invest into something in huge amount...

Someone else in that country use your deposited $ to import stuff from other countries to the point that your deposited dollar is depleted....

at that point you want to get back your $ after selling all of your stuff....

Do you think you'd be able to withdrew quickly?

How do we compare that to EU? So I buy ped, and then they take ped and convert it to... gold from WoW? Linden from SL? You could come up with an exchange rate between all of those based on the dollar, but none of it is real. It still relies on MA being able to convert the value of ped you hold into real money. This is what the confidence of the value of PED is based around. The value of ped is only a construct in our own minds. That value means absolutely nothing the moment MA decides to shut down the service for whatever reason. As per the ToU AND their financial statements, they owe us nothing should that occur.

I think the same principle might apply to EU when a larger group of players wants to withdraw! (BTW i've not read the EULA...so no clue about it)

People only have to wait for withdrawals because of this:

http://www.mindark.com/press/financial-reports/documents/Annual_Report_2008.pdf

Participants in Entropia Universe can at any time request reimbursement of their unconsumed assets in the virtual currency PED. MindArk then reserves the corresponding amount in SEK as an accrual.

For it to be an accrual essentially means they are waiting for more money to come in before they pay anything out. An accrual implies they will pay it out in the following accounting period. Hence the reason you have to wait 30+ days for a "withdrawal". Which brings me back to the point that there isn't enough in assets to cover all of our money. If there was, then a withdrawal in the true sense of the word would not be an issue at all. But since they are waiting on more money to come in before they can settle you out, there is no reserve of money they are sitting on. We are not a liability and what you think is YOUR money that you have invested with MA is not YOURS in any sense what so ever.

Be thankful that you don't have to claim what you "own" in ped in taxes. I know a lot of people in this game are very thankful for that. Money launderer's paradise... oops... did I give too much away?

 

[Zavy]

So when I do some shortblade hunting, I should receive no loot at all, since I'm not using ammo?

No, you should recieve 100% of your expenses to kill the mob. That's what I am saying. The decay is from healing and armor. Using Melee you will take more decay, than shooting something that doesn't ever reach you to hit you.

It is impossible for you to profit in anyway at a 90% return rate if all your items don't sell at least 110%.
Unless you get lucky hitting a global to make up for losses. Which then means we are hunting globals, because if you don't you will get screwed unless you get lucky to loot a high markup item, but if you take into account the ammount of peds it took you to loot that item versus the amount to just buy the item it doesn't add up. That's is the reason people deposit.

Are we hunting miracles or are we hunters who hunt for materials? If miracles then this is based on luck not skill.
For one person to make profit the rest have to loose profit?

How can a miner survive if he uses 100peds in bombs and get 75 ped back. Sure with markup he might get back to 100, but that is not fair. The markup does not belong to the planet. That is our income. But if the cost is higher than the markup it is impossible to sustain life.

This is not a complaining thread, this thread is to help us understand why so many people loose money and quit.

All loot should have at least 110%, it cost much more to actually loot it than buy it.

Same with craters, no one joins this game blindly and says "hey I want to be a weapons crafter!" I will invest 100 peds to make whatever to sell at less than 100peds.

A painter doesn't spend all that paint to skill up to paint everything for free. To survive they have to make up their cost. But if the game is eating all your markup and charging you to play, what incentive do they have?

A reseller wouldn't buy an item for 10peds and sell it for 5.

 

[Zavy]

Since MA won't tell us what decay means I will define it for what I believe it is or should be.

Decay is any peds spent that do not give back any return for using that item.

Skills is something that can be sold, but since they only cost us to 'create/recieve' when you use an item that gives skills. Like Fap. You are getting some kind of loot, even though you get taxed when trying to sell YOUR skills. But it cost the company no money to give you skill becasue they are generated at the cost of peds.

Weapons/Range Finders/Blueprints are the Tools needed to use the ammo/bombs/material to be productive at your profession.

Also things like hangers. When you pay a pilot for a service you don't expect anything in return expect to be taken to your destination. The logic of loot that I see is suggesting that the pilot should charge everyone less than what they paid in oil. It rediculous. Not only do they account for the oil, but they add cost to make up for the investment.

So why would I pay for equipment and expect less than what I put into it. When nothing is real! There is no loot, only peds with different icons and purpose which alters the value (markup) of those peds.

Would you hunt anything, if all you could loot was TT ammo?


Here is an example using poker. 10 people sit down all with $10. There is $100 in the pot. The place you play at will take a rake from every hand played (10% of every pot won with average pot of $1 (.10).
Now if no one leaves the table and no new people join and the same people just keep playing how much money will be left in the pot after 1000 pots. Zero Zilch. You could have won 90% of the hands, but the house will take it all.
It takes people to leave and others to sit down and redeposit into the game or the game will end with everyone broke.
But if the 'chips' the players win have a markup on them, then you could sell your chip to other players to recover your loses.

 

[Zavy]

Imagine a situation.... you've deposited $2000 and you did nothing... no hunting , mining or crafting, and didn't buy anything......the peds were there for 1 yr...... and then you withdrew.

...
Therefore, I think MA needs decay, either in the form of ammo or weapon... the more decay you do the more MA gets (10% of the deacy)...... MA's return is directly proportional to activity......and that's why MA loves high end players with heavy grinding.... and MA rewards them with high MU items.
...
So, in my opinion they more you play (decay) they more you put into the loot pool.....and you can't withdrow more than your deposit (after decaying it) unless you gain in the form of high MU items....(except rare uber hof by a newbie )
...
......my 2c

Spot on dude. The high MU items is the incentive for people to deposit to buy something they want. And the company should get none of that money.
Like an ESI, the TT is 10peds and the markup is 800% = 80 peds.
The extra 70 peds to buy the item at 80 peds comes from the deposit. Now to use that skill chip you need Tools that decay that give you no chance of loot. So it is gone.
To the company your LOOT was only 10 peds.
It shouldn't matter if it cost you 100 peds to loot it. So then you say, well I only lost 20% When really in loot, you lost 90%. WTF. I don't say that often, but this is either beyond my scope of financial understanding or they concider the Markup as our loot.

It makes no sense to spend 100peds to loot an ESI for 10peds and then sell it to the TT.
MA is not giving us the markup, other players are. What they do with it is upto them.
In essence, it cost you 100peds to loot the ESI and another player to pay 80peds for the item.
That means it cost the player who buys the ESI 80 peds and it cost you 100peds as a hunter.

So in the loot pool the hunter deposit 100 ped to get a 10 ped item.
The buyer deposit 80 peds to buy the item which is only worth 10 peds if no one else buys it.
The hunter now has those 80 peds, but what happened to his 100? He got 80 of it from someone else.

Wouldn't it give the company more deposits if the hunter looted TEN 10ped ESI and sold them each for 80 peds?
Now he makes 800 peds from his 100 ped investment and 10 people had to deposit 80 peds.
But to the company the TT value of those 10 ESI is only 100 peds.
They make their money then from the people who bought the ESI to insert it (decay) and the 10% skill loss.
Everyone gets what they want.