How hunting loot works????

[Grengoshi]

REASON FOR THE THREAD:
I was hunting merps earlier today and i had a idea. since im taken basic programming i have found programming is very mathematical (duh) and needs a lot of variations for the variables. now you cant get randomize from programming unless you have a neuron smasher that smashes neurons into random holes in side a randomizing computer (only way to get true random readings no discussions)

so this is the fact loot is not pure random it works on programming regardless unless Mind Ark has a randomizing computer for each mob.

RULES:
so what i am about to say IS NOT FACT just theory and i want to see how others feel.
please don't be trollers and whiners etc this is a nice thread and respect is rule one.
ideas are greatly accepted and comments both for and not for the thread is also welcomed.

THE IDEA:

well seeing programming runs on numbers i had the idea since loot must be a programming then it must be mathematical in nature. there for a complexed mathematics as it seems

so heirs my thought. if each mob you kill had a number lets say merps. and each merp you kill had that suggested number
now this number changes at a set course and time till its dead. a always evolving number. now that number is effected by how much loot is in the loot pool. what weapon your using and how many you mobs your killing.

here is what this suggest:
there is a loot pool
weapons effect you returns
decay effects you returns
mob kills effect your returns(some times)


Example
Merps numbers are 15

lets say no loot is 15.1
1 pec loot is 15.2
2 pec loot is 15.3
globals 15.99
so on and so forth

let look at the "randomization" closer
60% of mobs will get no looter
10% will get 1 pec loot so the numbers that are spawned on these mobs (that is changing let say every second before kill)
5% will be 2 pec
.01% 15.99
examples below
the amount of 15.1 is added through the mobs more dramatically then they are added for the other set numbers
so lets say there are 100 mobs 60% of the time the "randomization" will be for no loot then 1 pec loot.

now we know maturity, damage per second and other factors account for loot gain etc and i honestly believe it can be explained through this

is you hunt wit a weapon let say a ubah weapon it will dramatically decrease the % of the amount of no loot you get. the longer you hunt will also increase the amount of 15.2 or 15.3 you get but not much maybe the third digits like in decay.

again this is all theory and to me it fits programming really well. please by all meens feed back is accept. but dont troll show theory etc.
(im suggesting this for hunting only i have no clue how crafting and mining might work)

 

[Bernz]

maybe the third digits like in decay.

I like to read theory even if I dont understand it most of the time.

What I'd like to add is that I'm almost sure Entropia calculate things with at least 5 digits if not more because .....

1000 Fruits = 1 pec
(0.01 / 1000 = 0.00001 pec)

 

[Grengoshi]

that would make more sense yes ty for the add i was merely pointing out that the % and numbers of the mobs could be dramatically more complexed then jsut .00 or .0000 maybe the percents is .00000000000 for some loot who knows the true extent this is merely the basic principles of it

but thx for the add keep them coming hehe

 

[AxeMurderer]

I like to read theory even if I dont understand it most of the time.

What I'd like to add is that I'm almost sure Entropia calculate things with at least 5 digits if not more because .....

1000 Fruits = 1 pec
(0.01 / 1000 = 0.00001 pec)

you sure
who was your math teacher?

 

[Grengoshi]

you sure
who was your math teacher?

lol dude

 

[Sircus]

you sure
who was your math teacher?

Eh, you homeschooled by any chance?

 

[AxeMurderer]

1000 Fruits = 1 pec
(0.01 / 1000 = 0.00001 pec)

I'm not sure about the price of fruits, but if it is as pointed here

1000 fruits = 1 pec
1 fruit will be = 1//1000 = 0.001 pec
and not 0.00001 pec

 

[AxeMurderer]

since im taken basic programming i have found programming is very mathematical (duh) and needs a lot of variations for the variables.

dude, gratz for the cource but there is a reason to call it BASIC programming - because they can't call it NOOB programming

now you cant get randomize from programming unless you have a neuron smasher that smashes neurons into random holes in side a randomizing computer (only way to get true random readings no discussions)

I'm not sure if you watched Babylon 5 or Star Trek 9 and what random holes are chasing you, but I'm prety sure games can give you random numbers since Bil Gates played Cows and Bulls.

The loot formula is easy as 16 years old scholl girl. There are few steps. 1 step - loot or no loot. 2 step - if loot how much (bigger chance for small loot and smaaaal chance for HOF). 3 step - what in the loot.

After few years of statistical analysis of my loot data here is what I figured out to be the right formula:

 

[Grengoshi]

sorry no ur actualy wrong. random is impossible and the randomiser useing nuetrons isnt sci fi its acutaly truth, please do ur research and il look intot hat eqation more. but to behonest it looks like i google the bloody thing. so il research this more ty for given me somthing to do

im writing eveyr thing incorrect to lazy to fixz hahah

 

[Uvas]

I remember reading here on these forums a year or so ago about someone who actually programmed for an online game. He said that the loot program was triggered when a mob died. Then it went through its calculations. So mobs don't walk around with loot in them waiting to get killed. He said it was probably true of this game also because he noticed the lag between killing a mob and the loot window popping up. What the actual formula is, is anyones guess...

 

[remontoire]

sorry no ur actualy wrong. random is impossible and the randomiser useing nuetrons isnt sci fi its acutaly truth, please do ur research and il look intot hat eqation more. but to behonest it looks like i google the bloody thing. so il research this more ty for given me somthing to do

im writing eveyr thing incorrect to lazy to fixz hahah

You are right in that it is not possible to generate "true" random numbers in a computer. For true random, you really have to tap into quantum effects in one way or other, but the good news is that you don't need to do any smashing as a lot of effects and noise have their origin in quantum physics. You can also buy ready made units that give you true random, for example from Protego . In practice in most applications, esp. where bulg RNG is needed such devices are used for seeding secure PRNG algortithms on a regular basis. For most purposes this is not very different from having an infinite, ready supply of "real" random numbers.

PS. Where the heck did you get that "neutron smashing" from? any source? Neutrons outside of a nucleus have a limited lifetime and don't really need smashing. Also, being neutral particles, neutrons are not very amenable to acceleration and influences in direction, so collisions are not easy to bring about.

 

[aridash]

random is impossible

incorrect. for a start you just need a non-deterministic data source really. secondly you can obtain random (or non-deterministic) data very easily, either from an online feed or finding your own source. two sources are atmospheric noise, and user interaction, but there are many more. a system such as MAs has literally thousands of random data samples every second from us the players. it would be quite easy to use your interaction, or even better someone elses interaction with the game to generate non-deterministic, random input.

 

[STYRM]

loot is not random in EU (if that is what you nerds are debating ) its dynamic..

like in out teamhunts on eviscs.. we can shoot for say 30 mins with almost no globals at all.. then the system changes and we global 2-4 times.. then it starts over..

its not a big mystery that if you keep shooting mobs it will sooner or later give you the loot you want.. (if that mob drop the item your after ofc)(oh.. and yeah.. some ppl will argue that this is not the case anymore.. cus some items hasent dropped in a long time)

if you keep hunting a mob for an ATH you will get that ATH.. the only thing that matters is if you have enough peds to invest in that ATH..

like having 20k peds to get a 100k ped loot from dasps.. it is possible and some ppl do try..

dunno if I made a point here but this is how hunting works in my head anyways.. investment (ammo+decay) Vs loot

 

[Arch]

sad to see such smart people use their abilities on such trivial issues....

 

[Infinity01]

sad to see such smart people use their abilities on such trivial issues....

I respectfully, disagree...

It's not the loot they are trying to get....

It's trying to figuring out a system........it's in our nature.. to go after the unknown....

BTW, don't forget the Newtons' Apple!

 

[Centech]

For all important scientific inquiry I defer to Insane Clown Posse..

Fucking lootpool.. HOW DOES IT WORK?!

Must be..

 

[Zkan]

I remember reading here on these forums a year or so ago about someone who actually programmed for an online game. He said that the loot program was triggered when a mob died. Then it went through its calculations. So mobs don't walk around with loot in them waiting to get killed. He said it was probably true of this game also because he noticed the lag between killing a mob and the loot window popping up. What the actual formula is, is anyones guess...

Sounds fair!

 

[Mega]

For all important scientific inquiry I defer to Insane Clown Posse..

Fucking lootpool.. HOW DOES IT WORK?!

Must be..

I find clowns disturbing.

 

[Grengoshi]

You are right in that it is not possible to generate "true" random numbers in a computer. For true random, you really have to tap into quantum effects in one way or other, but the good news is that you don't need to do any smashing as a lot of effects and noise have their origin in quantum physics. You can also buy ready made units that give you true random, for example from Protego . In practice in most applications, esp. where bulg RNG is needed such devices are used for seeding secure PRNG algortithms on a regular basis. For most purposes this is not very different from having an infinite, ready supply of "real" random numbers.

PS. Where the heck did you get that "neutron smashing" from? any source? Neutrons outside of a nucleus have a limited lifetime and don't really need smashing. Also, being neutral particles, neutrons are not very amenable to acceleration and influences in direction, so collisions are not easy to bring about.

dude you right i am wrong i aint going to fix what i wrote but clearfy it here. they werent nutrons more like electrons rofl!!! it was rly early and i was half alseep when i wrote this thank for showing me my mistakes.
what it was acutaly what they forced electrocs had very very hide speeds to go thrugh holes inside a small (best way to describe it ) a peice of metal wit holes in it (but rly small) this would give a random set course number)
but i fully accept my mistake and thanking you for clearfying it sir

 

[Grengoshi]

loot is not random in EU (if that is what you nerds are debating ) its dynamic..

like in out teamhunts on eviscs.. we can shoot for say 30 mins with almost no globals at all.. then the system changes and we global 2-4 times.. then it starts over..

its not a big mystery that if you keep shooting mobs it will sooner or later give you the loot you want.. (if that mob drop the item your after ofc)(oh.. and yeah.. some ppl will argue that this is not the case anymore.. cus some items hasent dropped in a long time)

if you keep hunting a mob for an ATH you will get that ATH.. the only thing that matters is if you have enough peds to invest in that ATH..

like having 20k peds to get a 100k ped loot from dasps.. it is possible and some ppl do try..

dunno if I made a point here but this is how hunting works in my head anyways.. investment (ammo+decay) Vs loot

it sad you seem like the bully in high school who is jealius that the "nerds" are smarter then you.
i perosnly aint shooting mobs to get the best loot i am merily trying to break down how somthing works because thats who i am
i had this idea/theory. and its sad there is ppl like you out there who dosnt wana understand things

but regardles ty for you point

 

[Grengoshi]

incorrect. for a start you just need a non-deterministic data source really. secondly you can obtain random (or non-deterministic) data very easily, either from an online feed or finding your own source. two sources are atmospheric noise, and user interaction, but there are many more. a system such as MAs has literally thousands of random data samples every second from us the players. it would be quite easy to use your interaction, or even better someone elses interaction with the game to generate non-deterministic, random input.

but in reality thats not truly randomnistic data. its set values dude. you cant randomly generate variables or other algorithmic numbers via programming. you need a off set caclauton matrix, which is also fulled by ever changeing data (via the electron thing bah i cant belvie i wont incorrect infoamtion)

 

[Grengoshi]

I remember reading here on these forums a year or so ago about someone who actually programmed for an online game. He said that the loot program was triggered when a mob died. Then it went through its calculations. So mobs don't walk around with loot in them waiting to get killed. He said it was probably true of this game also because he noticed the lag between killing a mob and the loot window popping up. What the actual formula is, is anyones guess...

i never read that post but it seems highly logical that the loot is determined on kill not pre determined. but i am merly given a basic ideal on how it might work. again i could be 100% wrong

 

[Superhal]

Wow, until this thread, I never realized it was so glaringly obvious:

The loot is controlled by a bunch of clowns.

 

[Grengoshi]

Wow, until this thread, I never realized it was so glaringly obvious:

The loot is controlled by a bunch of clowns.

lol 100% proven fact....welll its settled we discovered one thing about MA thats accurate..... hahahaha

 

[Fishface]

Ok, please excuse me, because i've been drinking a little bit. But I will attempt to answer this one.

From what i can understand in this thread, everyone seems to agree that loot is at least semi-random in nature, although possibly in waves, or cycles.

The question of this thread, therefore, seems to be: What factors in the game influence the loot that is generated. Or more specifically: What factors does the computer algorithm use to calculate loot? Is it entirely luck? Does your weapon matter? Does more wasted shots (ie, more decay per kill) increase the base loot? Etc.

Well, you are in luck today, because my friends and I recently finished a very large study of this exact issue. We began with the identical premise, and then isolated each variable. Some factors were very surprisingly not influencing the loot. Others were. In the end, we actually came up with a very long, complex formula. But translated into basic, simple English, here is what influences loot:

10% luck
20% skill
15% concentrated power of will
5% pleasure
50% pain

And 100% reason to remember the name.

-fish

 

[Grengoshi]

Darn you fishface lol (shake fist in the air) haha

 

[Karmic]

I remember reading here on these forums a year or so ago about someone who actually programmed for an online game. He said that the loot program was triggered when a mob died. Then it went through its calculations. So mobs don't walk around with loot in them waiting to get killed. He said it was probably true of this game also because he noticed the lag between killing a mob and the loot window popping up. What the actual formula is, is anyones guess...

That may be true for some games, however, there were other games that the loot was definitely on the mob when it spawned. You could tell this because of the damage messages. If a mob had a certain type of weapon in it's loot it would slash instead of punch, if the weapon had haste on it the mob would hit noticeably faster etc. I believe loot is most likely generated when a mob is killed rather than when it is spawned for a variety of reasons, but the purist in me prefers that the loot be generated when the mob is spawned.

 

[ruslan]

PS. Where the heck did you get that "neutron smashing" from? any source? Neutrons outside of a nucleus have a limited lifetime and don't really need smashing. Also, being neutral particles, neutrons are not very amenable to acceleration and influences in direction, so collisions are not easy to bring about.

Well you do need to get that neutron from somewhere. Atom smashing is one way, or you could use an unstable radioactive substance, which would give you that neutron for free.

They do have a limited lifetime, but this is where the "randomness" kinda steps in. A neutron would release a proton electron and a beta radiation particle.. so the release of radiation is what you'd have to measure. It's similar to the Schrödinger's cat paradox. Nothing is random, even on a quantum scale.

As aridash mentioned it has to be user interaction sample or a combination of factors that decide the outcome.


Some

 

[Grengoshi]

Well you do need to get that neutron from somewhere. Atom smashing is one way, or you could use an unstable radioactive substance, which would give you that neutron for free.

They do have a limited lifetime, but this is where the "randomness" kinda steps in. A neutron would release a proton electron and a beta radiation particle.. so the release of radiation is what you'd have to measure. It's similar to the Schrödinger's cat paradox. Nothing is random, even on a quantum scale.

As aridash mentioned it has to be user interaction sample or a combination of factors that decide the outcome.


Some

correct but i admited to my mistake it wasnt useing nuetrons sadly :/ merly electricaly currents hiting different points in a misordered fashion (IMHO not as fun as atom smashing )

 

[travrevyen]

I like to read theory even if I dont understand it most of the time.

What I'd like to add is that I'm almost sure Entropia calculate things with at least 5 digits if not more because .....

1000 Fruits = 1 pec
(0.01 / 1000 = 0.00001 pec)

Do you have your own LA? with trilomite I will visit it when I get back online. Your link does not work.