How sweat affect us all... (traders ripping off noobs pt 2. if you allow)

[Leviathan]

I was a noob not so long ago myself. The first thing I did after I got a few PEDS was to start buying and trading sweat.*

However, I have an ethics code to buy (and sell), especially for noobs. I never give less than the minimum price for sweat in the streets (currently 1.1 if less than 1k). I have a steady sdtring of people that tend to sell just to me and I think that attests the veracity of my words....

However, there are people here that think they are going to become millionaires in one shot and buy it at 1.03, 1.07 or even 1.0.... from noobs. It pisses me off!

While this is a free market, and people can sell their sweat at the rate they want, the rate of people that actually stay in the game is low, so the economy is stagnating. This is largely due because of dihonest behaviour (like bad mentoring or bad traders).

I really dont want a debate, I just want to bring the issue to your attention. Sweat affects us all.

ACTIONS SUGGESTED:

1. Inform them of the current price and tell them basic aspects of sweat economics
2. Behave well with noobs and give them a break.
3. Donate useless armour or equipment when/if you can, so they enter the formal economy more promptly.
4. Protest if you see someone ripping people abusing them.
5. Invite them to your societies where they can ge advice and deal with honest people.

I know I am not alone in this.

BUYING AT LOW PRICES HURTS US ALL IN THE LONG RUN. BUYING IT FAIRLY INCREASES THE AMOUNT OF MONEY CIRCULATING IN ENTROPIA... u know this is good for all of us.


*Note--Yes I am a reseller, but I think I never ripped anyone off. I buy fair, sell fair. My profit is deserved because instead of hunting (that I love) I stand for hours at PA collecting 20, 20 bottls of sweat per costumer until I have enough sell at bulk. MY time is worth as much as your desire to buy cheap....

 

[Joe_Taxpayer]

well ,i`m not a reseller , but i have and do offer the oj`s sweat for my low level armor at tt , no need for me to buy sweat as i can get it myself again , prolly the only eco way of getting any skills this VU

LAGGGGG

 

[Silver Ice]

I was a noob not so long ago myself. The first thing I did after I got a few PEDS was to start buying and reselling sweat.*

However, I have an ethics code to buy (and sell), especially for noobs. I never give less than the minimum price for sweat in the streets (currently 1.1 if less than 1k). I have a steady sdtring of people that tend to sell just to me and I think that attests the veracity of my words....

However, there are people here that think they are going to become millionaires in one shot and buy it at 1.03, 1.07 or even 1.0.... from noobs. It pisses me off!

While this is a free market, and people can sell their sweat at the rate they want, the rate of people that actually stay in the game is low, so the economy is stagnating. This is largely due because of dihonest behaviour (like mentoring or traders).

I really dont want a debate, I just want to bring the issue to your attention. Sweat affects us all.

ACTIONS SUGGESTED:

1. Behave well with noobs and give them a break.
2. Donate useless armour or equipment when/if you can, so they enter the formal economy more promptly.
3. Protest if you see someone ripping people abusing them.
4. Invite them to your societies where they can ge advice and deal with honest people.

I know I am not alone in this.

BUYING AT LOW PRICES HURTS US ALL IN THE LONG RUN. BUYING IT FAIRLY INCREASES THE AMOUNT OF MONEY CIRCULATING IN ENTROPIA... u know this is good for all of us.


*Note--Yes I am a reseller, but I think I never ripped anyone off. I buy fair, sell fair. My profit is deserved because instead of hunting (that I love) I stand for hours at PA collecting 20, 20 bottls of sweat per costumer until I have enough sell at bulk. MY time is worth as much as your desire to buy cheap....

Don't label yourself as a reseller You're a trader offering a service to the community. That service is: taking the time to buy small amounts of an item for a fair price, and then selling bulk at a slight markup. The markup is compensation for the time spent gathering the bulk amount so that your buyer wouldn't have to.

The best we can do for the newcomers though, is take the time to inform them about the economy to help them make sure that they're not getting ripped off. A 1st day OJ has no clue that sweat goes for 1.1+ unless they are informed by someone else. And mentoring, btw, is not dishonest behavior. Taking a on disciple and then ignoring them (in other words, scamming them) is. Which can also be prevented by informing the newcomers.

 

[Leviathan]

I agree with you

I take the reseller part back...

I also add to the actions to take list: inform them

TY

 

[Rellik]

Leviathan, you were talking about trading sweat by buying it at 1.1 for less than 1k. Yet, I have talked to a few people who say outright they don't buy sweat unless it is 1.0, and sell for 1.1. Do you think that is just people looking at my famously orange outfit and figuring "Noob don't know no better"?

In addition, I just talked with a couple of my other orange brethren, about sweat, and hearing about them selling for 1.0. Now I had figured that standard market for sweat is 1.0 to 1.2 depending on quantity. Am I out of my mind and wrong?

Lastly, can you actually trade enought quantity of sweat to to justify a mere o.1 markup, from 1.1 to 1.2? That is a profit of 1 PED for trading 1000 Sweat!!

Pardon my necomer inquiries, if you will. I just want to know what's going on in the crazy world of Calypso!

 

[Kerham]

Actually price of sweat was always a problem. When I joined (aug 2005), existed sweat cap and sweat was ~3 pec/bottle. Don't go "omg, alot of peds". It was not, we didn't had opalo. We had axe 1x0. Well, a long story.
At the time, were exactly same discussions in PA:

"Y: NEWBS DON'T SELL SWEAT FOR LESS THAN 3.0
Z: BUYING SWEAT @ 2.9
Y: YOU SUCK
etc."

Point is that exist a reciprocal pressure from:

- price of Mind Essence
- price and availability of Nexus
- price of sweat

In case of sweat, we can't talk about availability, since it's virtually infinite. So there's no "nailed price".

BUT. The Mind Essence. I think all newbs should know what ME is used for. Is the "ammo" for mindforce chips, which consumes it in variable qty, depending on level and effect. Now, the vast majority of mf chip users (don't confuse with skill chips), is the huge mass of lesser tp chip users. Almost any player uses one. Apart from this, exist the greater tp chips and those which are used by some maniacs called "mf skillers". Don't ask me why they skill it, tho.

Now, to skill with healing, focusing and nerve blast chip is a pain in the back. Especially with focus chip, which u can use on dudes gathering sweat, they are the only beneficiars.. but few will realise that.

Now, is a bit normal to exist a market price for ME. Currently, is about 270%. That is decided mostly by MF skillers, they buy in huge qtys. And logical, they will want to pay the less. Especially when a part of skilling means helping sweat gatherers and when exist no sweating cap.

I personally don't care about price of ME because I don't buy it. I am a miner, so I find my own nexus, so I can pay what I want on sweat (like 1.3, some days ago, in PA, for a dudette who had 10k of it). So I will have ME for months to come ^^

IF the newbs would be wise they would understand that they DON'T NEED to sell the sweat. Not in 100 pieces, anyway. Since to start in any given proffesion, u need some hundreds of peds to be safe, I would consider 10k as minimum sellable qty. But try to explain that to a newb who wants to "omg kill the mobz!!!!#$". I tried and I got sick from it, let them be.

So from this rush of newbs to spend money appear the future leeches of EU. Any selfrespecting reseller will start with sweat trading, since is more cheap to profit from suckers instead of sweat himself. No, I can't stand resellers if u had any doubt. After sweat reselling comes hides/paint/pixie/goblin reselling, where start to appear difference between serious traders and f**** reselleres. An ambitious reseller will put 10 opalo at tt+3 on auction. Stupid, imo, but I seen it so many times that I can write "The way of reselling. Dung to Supremacy"

The age of newbness is filled with myth and stupid questions: "is true that nexus can be find only by some ppl?" "is true that u must be extrenmely skilled to refine sweat into ME? (this I was teached by a reseller which I didn't had yet the pleasure to meet in pvp)" etc. Often, u'll find a wannabe reseller dressed in uncoloured urban pants and blouse "man, i have a supplier, they can't be found anywhere... nono, don't go to auctioneer, u need skills for that" trying to explain newbs one thousand things, all false, trying to buy sweat as cheap as possible.

What I find hilarious in this is that, for real, nobody becomes rich from sweat reselling. I see sometimes ambitious newb resellers trying to sell 20-30k of sweat for hundreds of peds. Well, is anybody's right to hope. But truth is u can expect ur first hundred after some time of trading. Anyway, from a 0.1 pec per bottle, u don't become rich.

Just that.. heh.. ME has a price which can be checked.. nexus same.. so only who can be shafted are the newbs. Why? Greed of resellers. At first sight can upset u, but shouldn't. What I would do if I would be a newb? I would watch for some dude using mf chips and I would ask him if he wants to buy 20-30k of sweat. But I ain't sweating anymore and usually newbs don't think that far.

Is part of the beauty of the game.

 

[Agar]

(...)
IF the newbs would be wise they would understand that they DON'T NEED to sell the sweat. (...)

right!
Well, on my very first day at PA I watched suspiciously the main channel.
Then I spent some time here reading the forum.
Now I'm hording my sweat until it's woth selling.

Patience is a virtue noobs

 

[forgo]

While I can see the point here, I dont think sweat buying/selling are a big issue.

Afterall it is free, as a noob I came in with 1.0 per bottle....sure most of those people I sold to most likely went on to sell for 1.3, but I didint have the funds/commitment/bulk to be any position to compete.

Sure didnt take me long to see what was going on though, since both buyers and sellers throw alot of different figures up.

So it allowed me to buy some low and sell higher after a week, so I could gain back what I "lost" and buy basic gear.

So while it varies alot and seems to be an issue, it is just as much an opportunity to seize as it is one to dismiss.

 

[Az Bloodz]

Well...I try my best...because after my crafting moods I end up sweating again :/...problem is: most of the time I end up complaining and discussing with a reseller who tries to rip off noob...I don't want to name anyone...nah actually I do want to..."No20" tries to buy for 0.9....I mean...that's impudent

 

[black_rain13]

I'm right there with you, mate. Last night I was just hanging out in PA when I noticed (name withheld) telling people that the current sweat price was 1.15 pec, but that they would only pay 1.0 per unit.

Sadly, there were a lot of noobs out there at the time that were sincerely in need of a few pec and were willing to sell it at the 1.0 pec.

I openly challenged (name withheld) and informed all the noobs that I would pay 1.12 per unit on their sweat, even though I didn't need it. I hate worse than anything seeing someone openly screw over the noobie population of EU. Unfortunately for the noobies in PA last night, (name withheld) didn't give up and leave as I had hoped and instead I had to sign off and go to sleep before I was able to buy too much more sweat.

Noobies, take note: If you all communicate with one another in the game and everyone agrees (as much as possible anyway) that you won't sell for less than a fair price, then buyers and scammers will not be able to take advantage of you as easily.

Check around, find out what the real price is and hold out for it if you can. There isn't EVER any reason why you must have 5 PED so badly that you can't wait a little longer to get the price you deserve for your sweat.

 

[Nitrosomonas]

just a little thought, but don't you get more money from sweating itself than reselling sweat
and they call the ppl that sell sweat for too low prices noob they get more money out of their time then the reseller, get skills, and its less boring....

just a thought though....

 

[Alice]

im for a price of 1.2 for sweat at the trade terminal
below is not really useful, and the higher the better, but i think it wouldnt hurt to have another option than just traders
actually, maybe we would even see a useful price increase, since suddenly the ppl have to compete against eachother a bit, atm this is not really the case

 

[Titus Wolf]

well, its a round and round game. i started off determined to make it with sweating, for 2 months.. guess what, i deposited. it takes too long and is too boring for 99% of the people to make it sweating. id bet that 90% or more of the people that are complaining about sweat prices drop out or deposit, just to be replaced by another group that are just as determined to make it sweating. so, there is a neverending supply of sweat and sweaters. i am one of those people that are skilling MF by bubbling sweaters at troy, if ME went up too high, guess what. no more bubbles. i do it because its semi affordable. if it no longer is, you no longer get bubbles from me. thats why there is no more sweat cap, MA needs sweat for MF. and they want people to start using it more. the only way to do that is to lower ME prices... thus, more sweating, and more nexus. see.. round and round

 

[Skippie]

sweating for defense skills is great and my moment of zen.

yes, i have hit an 18k hof and still sweat sometimes.

but sweating to gather money to play this game as a starter is difficult, and the only worse thing seems to be looking for fruit or dung. i deposited, got on with my game, and enjoy it 1000 times more.

if you can't deposit, though, it's your option. but sweat price is only going to stay low as everyone can now sweat. under the sweat cap, there was a need for constant supply of sweat gatherers. once capped, if not replaced, the price could fluctuate up. now, there will never be a sweat shortage.

as far as using mindforce, i do it now, but only with sweat i sweat and nexus i mine. this makes mindforce an option, as it never was when me was running 300%, i was sweat capped and forced to buy it.

 

[mohsinali410]

However, there are people here that think they are going to become millionaires in one shot and buy it at 1.03, 1.07 or even 1.0.... from noobs. It pisses me off!

While this is a free market, and people can sell their sweat at the rate they want, the rate of people that actually stay in the game is low, so the economy is stagnating. This is largely due because of dihonest behaviour (like bad mentoring or bad traders).

Well to be honest it's just business and if it was such a big deal then newbies would be complaining about it on this site. don't think i do this i'm just expressing my opinion. also whenever you're trading just give a better price then they will go to you.
i know it's cruel but EU is cruel and you have to learn from it, it's just reality.

im for a price of 1.2 for sweat at the trade terminal
below is not really useful, and the higher the better, but i think it wouldnt hurt to have another option than just traders
actually, maybe we would even see a useful price increase, since suddenly the ppl have to compete against eachother a bit, atm this is not really the case

i don't think the price would increase infact it should drop because now everybody can do it and are sweating themselves making it harder for newbies to earn PEDS in EU and there will be no competition on sweat because anybody can do it and somebody will give into a lower price.

 

[Vedder]

...
However, I have an ethics code to buy (and sell), especially for noobs. I never give less than the minimum price for sweat in the streets (currently 1.1 if less than 1k). I have a steady sdtring of people that tend to sell just to me and I think that attests the veracity of my words....

However, there are people here that think they are going to become millionaires in one shot and buy it at 1.03, 1.07 or even 1.0.... from noobs. It pisses me off!

While this is a free market, and people can sell their sweat at the rate they want, the rate of people that actually stay in the game is low, so the economy is stagnating. This is largely due because of dihonest behaviour (like bad mentoring or bad traders).
...

Whether sweaters are paid 1.0 or 1.1 for their sweat doesn't change the % of them who will stay in the game and become depositors.
(And those who stay and just keep reselling/trading like you, do *not* contribute to the economy in a positive way anyhow)

So no need for you to get all worked up by people offering 0.0005 PED less per bottle than yourself, imo.

 

[Kerham]

im for a price of 1.2 for sweat at the trade terminal

that would be the death of EU

 

[Alice]

i don't think the price would increase infact it should drop because now everybody can do it and are sweating themselves making it harder for newbies to earn PEDS in EU and there will be no competition on sweat because anybody can do it and somebody will give into a lower price.

hey moh, glad to see you more active on the forum
at least it wouldn't fall below 1.2 if you could sell it to the tt at that price, and this won't hurt

that would be the death of EU

why?

 

[In Love With]

I've read the whole thread with interest ... My 2 cents are

Yes, some n00bs do get duped by selling their sweat for 1.0, but if you think about it even at 1k they only lose out 2PED at the most which equates to $0.20. Sure resellers and n00b scamming traders are a pain but as many stated, true n00bs will have 100, maybe 200 sweat and the traders will have to wait a long time to accumulate 5k or more.

Knowledge is power and once a n00b sees/finds out that sweat can be sold for 1.1 without a problem he/she will do so (lesson learned) ... I was lucky enough to read all those great threads here before selling anything so I waited until I had 1k and sold it for 11PED.

But I still get angry when people like No.20 offer me a trade offering 9PED for 1k assuming I'd be stupid enough to take it.

ILW

PS: I refine myself now as I have many good friends who are ME users so I can sell my sweat effectively for 1.2 (which is great) as with a little luck you get FE just under 130% making ME available at just 250% (which I think is a fair price)

 

[Kerham]

why?

because if sweat would have tt price (a consistent one, not like now, 1 pec for 1k), would mean "money for nothing". is one thing to be payed by other players, who eventually deposit, and is completely different to be payed for this sweat by ... MindArk.. with money from where?

 

[Alice]

because if sweat would have tt price (a consistent one, not like now, 1 pec for 1k), would mean "money for nothing". is one thing to be payed by other players, who eventually deposit, and is completely different to be payed for this sweat by ... MindArk.. with money from where?

got the point, true
didn't thought of it

 

[Vedder]

because if sweat would have tt price (a consistent one, not like now, 1 pec for 1k), would mean "money for nothing". is one thing to be payed by other players, who eventually deposit, and is completely different to be payed for this sweat by ... MindArk.. with money from where?

But if sweat had a decent TT value, MF users would just have to pay more, or there would be no MF for them.

So in the end, it'd just mean a higher sweat price.
(Unless the tt price was much higher, in which case, very little MF would be used at all)

 

[shroeder]

But then MA would have to figure out some way in order to decay you while you sweat so that they don't lose money. Currently all the money revolving around sweat comes from other players if it had a decent tt value that money would come from MA inevetibaly(sp?) making the "loot pool" smaller. If sweat was still "free" and had tt value everyone could simply sweat and milk money from MA instead of from other players.

 

[Vedder]

But then MA would have to figure out some way in order to decay you while you sweat so that they don't lose money. Currently all the money revolving around sweat comes from other players if it had a decent tt value that money would come from MA inevetibaly(sp?) making the "loot pool" smaller. If sweat was still "free" and had tt value everyone could simply sweat and milk money from MA instead of from other players.

Hmm.. I'll repeat it again then:

But if sweat had a decent TT value, MF users would just have to pay more, or there would be no MF for them.
...

In the end it would still be players who paid for it, unless the TT price became too high and it made MF usage stop or drop considerably.

 

[Az Bloodz]

But there definitely will be people selling to TT...so MA will make a loss.

 

[mohsinali410]

because if sweat would have tt price (a consistent one, not like now, 1 pec for 1k), would mean "money for nothing". is one thing to be payed by other players, who eventually deposit, and is completely different to be payed for this sweat by ... MindArk.. with money from where?

well to be honest there is already a tt price for sweat 1k = 1pec. i know this sucks but MA don't want you to make money, infact it want to make money out of you. So it has this useless tt value on it and then they say you can make money out this game by sweating easily. this makes you assume it very easy and then you try it but, of course, if sweating was easy money then everybody would be doing it, then it would go down because the supply is higher then the demand. it's how the market works: supply and demand. this is just the reality of EU as i said before EU is a harsh world and is only suitable for rich people and i am not one of them else i would be splashing my money endlessly.

 

[mohsinali410]

But there definitely will be people selling to TT...so MA will make a loss.

but technically you would be loosing more money then they are because of the electrical needs for your PC or laptop or whatever. also your time, too, would be wasted gaining virtually nothing it would be better working IRF over here in the uk i would get like 96peds an hour which is better then 2peds an hour + a small amount of skills.

 

[black_rain13]

Simply put... if you can sell to the TT, you should be able to buy it from the TT.

Maybe instead of just selling it to the TT, let the TT act as a bank. It can be deposited into the Bank of Sweat and then others can purchase or Withdraw from the Bank of Sweat.

Of course the price to TT is is less by a margin then it is to sell it openly... in this way it still makes it more attractive for people to sell in public rather than the TT, and the profit that the TT system makes from sweat could be added into the loot pool.

So, for sheer examples sake:

Current market price of sweat on open market is 1.15
TT price to "DEPOSIT" sweat is 1.1

To buy sweat on the open market is of course 1.15
TT price to withdraw sweat is 1.2

the difference of 0.1 per unit for each unit sold via the TT system would go into the loot pool.

That is just my

 

[forgo]

In all honosty when I go to buy I buy noobs stuff for 1.3. Even at that price with the nexus I had in stock, its more than a fair price for personal me.

Have plenty of ME now...but resellers dont bother me either way....

there is still a demand for bulk sales when the patience is not there from the buyer.

Only way for the bulk sales are through resellers....who often are noobs themselves.
And to stand around asking for it takes patience and time....I go nuts when I have to sit around and ask for sweat even at instant 1.3 sales.

Thats what the resale markups pay for.

I really wonder what, if any, gains there are in comparison.....get 800 sweat in a few hours or stand around for 8 ped markup in that same time.

Sweat reselling isnt as bad as it may seem.

 

[Vedder]

But there definitely will be people selling to TT...so MA will make a loss.

Naah... 99% would be sold to players, and even if not, MA doesn't "lose" money when the give us PEDs. (Globals or oil-rig or whatever).
It's just taken from the loot pool, and someone else gets less.