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I am so gonna get burned for this suggestion...

Ned Flanders

Ned Flanders

Guardian
Joined
Aug 2, 2012
Posts
234
I want to be able to buy ESI from trade terminals.

There is a huge market for selling and buying skills in this game, but it is being held back by the fact that you have to pay 600-700% for the actual ESI that the skills are placed upon.

Obviously if you could get ESI for TT, the price on skills would go up, making them more valuable, but hopefully not so high that you simply pay 600-700% extra for the skills making it no different than it is now.

I know people will rage about this, because ESI is one of the few things we hunters get as MU loot, but that's a different issue, the current loot system is broken in my opinion, since there is basically two types of loot, robot and animal, and very few things differ, also the entire hunting loot system can't be based around the hopes of getting a juicy ESI as compensation. (Sorry a bit of topic, but related to topic) Mobs need more unique loot with a function (such as the recently introduced aurli bones).

I for one would be more willing to invest in skills with such a change and yes I know "MA will never introduce a system, that will make it easier to sell out skills and quit", well how about a system that enables new and old players to easier get back into the game, by chipping in and not having to start from scratch and not having to pay a small fortune in ESI costs.

Well I leave the floor open...that's my two pecs at least.
 
Would say yes, but i think there are over 100k ped tt worth of ESIs in players inventories.. So that would be unfair for them. If all ESIs would be bought by mindark at lets say 700% then it would be fair, but why would mindark pay 700k ? and then start selling at 100%..
If there is a way to overcome that problem, i vote for it.
 
Nice idea,

but then how are people meant to make money hunting :S
 
whiteknut said:
Would say yes, but i think there are over 100k ped tt worth of ESIs in players inventories.. So that would be unfair for them. If all ESIs would be bought by mindark at lets say 700% then it would be fair, but why would mindark pay 700k ? and then start selling at 100%..
If there is a way to overcome that problem, i vote for it.
Click to expand...

Yeah this is the biggest problem as I see it, not sure how could that be handled.

As for hunting loot - there are always a way of putting something else in the loot with markup. That's not the hardest part imho.


Although I like the idea, the current system kinda limits the farmers and also players who want to become uber fast. With tt ESIs huge skill farming would begin and I think MA woudn't like that you could chip in to very high levels 2, 3 times (or even more) cheaper than now. After a year the number of level 100s (and regular high levels with commando and such) would increase dramatically. So other limitations and regulatory measures are needed. Just look at history, when the prices were significantly higher - avatars farming for skills, shooting all day long on cp or scips (together with decent item loots, nice profit combo).
 
Prices on skills would drop around 600-700%....
I'd say it's a bad idea
 
MIND said:
make some new usefull item.
Click to expand...

Agreed, mobs need items to compensate for this, as I mentioned mutated aurli bones is a good example, it is a item unique to a mob and it has a function ingame making it useful.

Killahbee said:
Prices on skills would drop around 600-700%....
I'd say it's a bad idea
Click to expand...

No prices of ESI would drop, if you buy a i.e. Rifle chip for 1000% about 600-700% is the esi cost. If you bought the ESI for tt from trade terminal I am sure you'd be able to sell the chip for more than the 300-400% the skill in this example is valued at. If this change was implemented I am sure we would see the same pattern as with UL SiB weapons that went from 50% to 3% minimum limit, that is that without the ESI markup in the way the actual skills value would increase slightly.

It is a difficult change to make since imo the hunting loot would need a overhaul where hunting loot is more unique to the mob not the type of mob
 
Killahbee said:
Prices on skills would drop around 600-700%....
I'd say it's a bad idea
Click to expand...

Skill 2000% .. 600-700% of that is to cover the ESI.

If anything the raw % on skills would go up, as you do not have to cover the cost of the ESI.

E.g that 2000% skill is actullay 1300%

Now we do not have to pay for the ESI mu, so I could up that to 1800% and people would probably still be happy as they save 200%.


Just an example :p



I kinda like this idea, but actually putting it in might suck, big time :p
 
So you suggest to take one of the last things with decent MU from loot. I never chip in/out so don't much care about cost of skills but I do care about ESI in my loot :)
 
Or maybe MA should just increase the drop rate of ESIs on smaller hp mobs so the markup goes down...
 
It would be quicker and cheaper to chip out so more people would do it resulting in loads of people undercutting to get their skills sold and skill price would turn to shit.
 
Part of why it's not in the TT and not a frequent loot drop is to stop skill pharming and people starting newbie / alt accounts to get the sib on low end weapons and tools, then chipping it out to place into your main avatar or selling and destroying the mu.

There are a number of people who consider skill part of their return on ped spent, killing this might make them reconsider depositing.
 
I didn't consider that people might abuse the system, this suggestion might be the middle path:

Hijacker27 said:
Or maybe MA should just increase the drop rate of ESIs on smaller hp mobs so the markup goes down...
Click to expand...

The price of ESI is around 600-700% because the demand is so much higher than what is supplied, if an ESI had around 200-300% MU that would help a lot (but to get that low MU the supply of ESIs need to increase).

Some of you have mentioned that it would break the hunting loot without ESIs, but my opinion is that if ESIs is so valuable to the hunting loot, the system is already broken and needs a serious overhaul and modification.
 
Hijacker27 said:
Or maybe MA should just increase the drop rate of ESIs on smaller hp mobs so the markup goes down...
Click to expand...

This:)
although wich mobs drop them isnt of any influence imo.

and dont think you will have less profit, because you will loot more esi's

same at the end in loot markup.
 
SpikeBlack said:
Part of why it's not in the TT and not a frequent loot drop is to stop skill pharming and people starting newbie / alt accounts to get the sib on low end weapons and tools, then chipping it out to place into your main avatar or selling and destroying the mu.

There are a number of people who consider skill part of their return on ped spent, killing this might make them reconsider depositing.
Click to expand...

BS - how long does it take for for a newcomer to skill up lets say 2000 rifle skillpoints to sell for a few peds and how long does it take for an emik x5 user to skill the same amount (tt wise) on CP? Besides SIB is BS anyway and you should use only maxed items.

and FYI besides HP and few other skills, most are not really worth chipping out tbh.
 
sostoned said:
This:)
although wich mobs drop them isnt of any influence imo.

and dont think you will have less profit, because you will loot more esi's

same at the end in loot markup.
Click to expand...

It matters what mob it drop on.. If it drops from though mobs it's often to players that have been around for a while and know how to not flood the market and let MU drop. If it drops on a noob mob it almost looks like its "first man to list at 101%" competition at auction :p Best way to crush markup is to let high markup stuff drop from mid/low lvl mobs :)
 
Losing MU on looted ESI is not the worst problem. Obviously ESIs are MA's way to regulate the amount of skills that can be chipped out, certainly there is a finite tt quantity of ESIs that can exist in the world (loot+storages) at any given time, and for new ESIs to drop some bulk of old ESIs must be used up. If it would be easier to monetize your skills there would be less deposits, which is bad both for you and MA.

Many people play below their levels and would chip out down to the their actual activity level and keep chipping out to stay there. Currently it doesn't happen on a large scale not only because of the ESI cost but because of psychological barrier, people are sorry for the time spent to gain those skills. But when the market become flooded with skills, people will hold on less to their skills, thinking that they could chip up back anytime (even if they never really will).
 
Thanks for all the good feedback, surprised that people give constructive feedback.

I am a hunter so if this change would be implemented I'd suffer from it too, but I for one don't think that ESIs belong in the loot pool to begin with. Yeah seems people might be able to exploit it, but if that is true it is a error on MAs part. Regarding that people could use new accounts and skills with SiB, I don't see that happening for two reasons, 1) it is against MAs rules to have more than one account per person 2) It wouldn't be economical, would be better then to have 100/100 hit/dmg and shoot with i.e. a imk2 and sell the "extra" skills.

I don't want to repeat myself more than I already have, but the hunting loot is too generic to allow any form of MU i.e. if you hunt 50hp shinkibas you get oils and hides, if you hunt 3k hp leviathans, you pretty much get the same tt food hides and oils. It is a very simple system: Supply and demand...as long as the mobs in EU drop the same thing (with a different item if you're lucky), the MU will always be close to 100%. Last night someone mentioned that MU hunting Aurlis (I think it was) was a good, since initially they were the only mob that you could loot outputs on, which was nice, since it had nice MU, but now it seems more and more mobs drop outputs, and it is also starting to get into the regular loot pool (plummeting in MU the more mobs that drop it). Mutated Aurli bones is the latest example, it is quite valuable and it only dropps from the mutated aurlis, but how long will it be before we get "mutated *insert mob name* bones" killing the MU on those too.

(Sorry for the text wall, but it is so frustrating, this game has such a huge potential and MA is screwing it up).
 
Just because it's against terms of use doesn't mean it doesn't or wouldn't happen.

i.e. rinse and repeat 2000 points with an opalo, chip out and passing on compared to using high level L SIB if there isn't a huge difference in cost due to mu I'd be surprised.
 
SpikeBlack said:
Just because it's against terms of use doesn't mean it doesn't or wouldn't happen.

i.e. rinse and repeat 2000 points with an opalo, chip out and passing on compared to using high level L SIB if there isn't a huge difference in cost due to mu I'd be surprised.
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It's not about ToU, it just not worth it. 2000 newbies skills make a 10 ped ESI; if you have, say, 7000 in rifle and chip in that esi, you'll get 7021. You can gain those 21 in the same timeframe without any alts, while having much more interesting loot and gaining other skills in process.

Also such a chip would cost < 100 peds. It would cost much more for a newbie to skill up to 2000.
 
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Ned Flanders said:
I know people will rage about this, because ESI is one of the few things we hunters get as MU loot, but that's a different issue, the current loot system is broken in my opinion, since there is basically two types of loot, robot and animal, and very few things differ, also the entire hunting loot system can't be based around the hopes of getting a juicy ESI as compensation.
Click to expand...
It's not broken. MA wanted there to be less MU - a lot less. So now you are suggesting eliminating more MU, with MA not doing anything to suggest they will increase MU anywhere in the near future, or ever, for that matter? No thanks. Not until MA stops making Entropia more and more like a casino.
 
well for my part. ESI for TT would destroy the skills market. I'm not really active with buying skills but ok.

Now there's speculation on how the mu and skills are worth for selling so traders work with this, if you take the mu of the ESI out of it they can fix the prices and go lurk on noobs and ( i dont wanna say scam but hey new players wants peds ) impatient people.

example evade is what about cheapest is atm 2299% cheapest esi 707% but the evade chip is 15 ped the esi is 10 ped. so you would need to buy a more expensive esi to get a chip of similar size. so marging allready getting smaller. lets keep those values, 2299% minus 707% is 1592% mu profit. so without the esi mu you would pay 1592% for that skill what will happen is when the is esi allways 100% regardless, trader / seller i can undercut that, next i can undercut that, next i can undercut that, .... unless there's someone that puts an end to this the price will gradually drop to oil prices. and since there's no barrier for new players to invest in esi's to sell there skills while sweating there;s gonna be a boom on the small skills. ( same goes for people that wanna quite after a short time )


"if you want to make money from your skills go run into mobs for a year and sell your dodge / evade "

romi ^_^
 
Ned Flanders said:
Obviously if you could get ESI for TT, the price on skills would go up, making them more valuable, but hopefully not so high that you simply pay 600-700% extra for the skills making it no different than it is now.
Click to expand...

No, obviously if you could get ESI for TT the price on skills would go down.
 
This is why I hope that doesn't happen.
slither said:
It would be quicker and cheaper to chip out so more people would do it resulting in loads of people undercutting to get their skills sold and skill price would turn to shit.
Click to expand...
 
So to sum it up bad idea :)

Guess I am just an optimist... where I see potential, more experienced players find faults, exploits and such.

I still stick to my opinion about the hunting loot system being broken, no MU = no chance to break even, no matter how much skills you have and how eco your setup is. It does look grim on the MU part with ammo loot taking up more room in the loot pool, but at the same time item drops seem to have increased (seems to be raining angel foot guards atm, which sucks for owners of the set, since abudance = lowered value).

Anyway thanks for your comments guys, every "bad" suggestion is a (small) step closer to a good one, or at least let's hope it is :)
 
Maybe sell 1 PED TT ESI's so that noobs can get into the skill chipping game and maybe earn some PEDs selling their months worth of puny mob skilling?

Menace
 
go ahead .. i never loot esi anyway..
 
ESI in TT = Supply increase in skills = Skills drop in value = More players buy skills = Players become more efficient in their profession's = More cycled peds/deposits = Player's will stick around for much longer, since higher efficiency means players have higher chance to profit = Everyone WINS, well except all the rich dudes that chipped in a fortune before this change :( but with any drastic change comes a few downside's it's unavoidable.

Sure once you feel that you wanna quit, you will get less than what you get now for your skills once you finally chip out, but the hassle of buying ESi's at 600-700% and so on, you'll chip out in minutes rather than days/weeks, and if you ever decide to chip back in you can do it probably cheaper than you chipped out or maybe around the same price =)

About the less MU in loot. Who loots ESI's anyway? I've been playing since 2006 and I have only looted one or two ESI's 14-16 ped TT. Like the OP said the loot system is broken. Thankfully it seems Kim|Calypso is working on solving that.

If ya didn't know, Kim|Calypso said in the recent interview on atlas haven radio:
Alainax said:
Kim: Well, Modified loot. The loot lists themselves, well if you can call them that. Were change so that you could find more specific loot on each creature. So it should be less generic than it was before. A large part of that still remains but something that we are working on. We don’t want people to get 20 small stacks, when hunting diakiba or whatever. It should be a few specific things like diakiba wool, maybe one specific enhancer component, and a couple of other things.
Click to expand...

So basically this means less generic loots in the future, and this equals more markup in different kind of loots because certain loots will only be found from certain creatures =). That solves the "ESI MU problem in loot".
 
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nooooo waaaay!!!

but ya never know, they put ME in there and screwed the sweaters! :eyecrazy:
 
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