I am so gonna get burned for this suggestion...

So to sum it up bad idea :)

Guess I am just an optimist... where I see potential, more experienced players find faults, exploits and such.

I still stick to my opinion about the hunting loot system being broken, no MU = no chance to break even, no matter how much skills you have and how eco your setup is. It does look grim on the MU part with ammo loot taking up more room in the loot pool, but at the same time item drops seem to have increased (seems to be raining angel foot guards atm, which sucks for owners of the set, since abudance = lowered value).

Anyway thanks for your comments guys, every "bad" suggestion is a (small) step closer to a good one, or at least let's hope it is :)

oh no !! :eyecrazy:
 
Well isn't chipping out suppose to cost a lot? It is there to be a deterrent to quitting I would think. I have heard this many times "I would chip out now and quit this damn game if I could afford those ESI's but until I can I keep playing" from some disgruntled players, lol. Guess what they are still playing....

Although on the opposite side of thinking, it would make it handy for newbies to do skill farming for others as an alternative to sweating etc.

I personally don't see any issue the way it is now, but I don't chip in and out so I kind of like the implants staying at high markups.....
 
Hi,

Using another game as an example : Afterworld Survival.

They charge you 1 AWD (0.10 usd) to extract skill with a 5% loss of skill.

Something like this - An extraction terminal would be nice ;)
 
Hi,

Using another game as an example : Afterworld Survival.

They charge you 1 AWD (0.10 usd) to extract skill with a 5% loss of skill.

Something like this - An extraction terminal would be nice ;)

MA already take back 10% of what you chip out
 
The price of ESI is around 600-700% because the demand is so much higher than what is supplied, if an ESI had around 200-300% MU that would help a lot (but to get that low MU the supply of ESIs need to increase).

The price of ESI is around 600-700% because that has been the price on ESIs for years. This is obviously one area where MA has a target price. If they wanted the ESIs to be cheaper, they would simply drop more.

Some of you have mentioned that it would break the hunting loot without ESIs, but my opinion is that if ESIs is so valuable to the hunting loot, the system is already broken and needs a serious overhaul and modification.

I think you're lacking an understanding of the source of markup. You suggested earlier putting in something else with markup to compensate for the ESIs, without suggesting something that has significant ongoing value to players that will motivate the markup. Anything that is not consumed in the process of its use will eventually reach saturation, so only (L) drops can maintain markup, and only if they are inherently useful and thus in demand. The ESI happens to be the only way to transfer skill from one avatar to another and in limited supply, and because there is demand to transfer skills, it has markup.

The only change to this particular mechanism that wouldn't have a good chance of ending EU (and i'm not being hyperbolic in saying that) is to make an alternative ESI drop, a "low quality" ESI that loses 95% of a skill instead of 10%. This could be more available and sell for lower markup. It would be balanced by the ESI markup, the skill price market, and its own scarcity, while creating a larger sink for skills, which IMO is really needed.
 
Hi,

Using another game as an example : Afterworld Survival.

They charge you 1 AWD (0.10 usd) to extract skill with a 5% loss of skill.

Something like this - An extraction terminal would be nice ;)

Using most games as an example. You can't trade skills,experience, sometimes even equipment at all, when you quit your char is done. Selling your skills for cash when you quit is kind of a bonus, that said ESI are a little pricey, but, it's players that make it so.
 
I know it's shitloads of text but please read it anyway, I have concentration difficulties and trying to put this into text took like 2 hours and still looks like shit. Do me a huge favor and give me some of your time and read it from start to finish. :)

I've been thinking about suggesting this for a while aswell but I'm usually too lazy to do anything useful.
Reforming the skill implant system would greatly improve this game. Alot of ingame money are leaking out from the current system.

ESI in TT = Supply increase in skills = Skills drop in value = More players buy skills = Players become more efficient in their profession's = More cycled peds/deposits = Player's will stick around for much longer, since higher efficiency means players have higher chance to profit = Everyone WINS, well except all the rich dudes that chipped in a fortune before this change :( but with any drastic change comes a few downside's it's unavoidable.
I think that this is just fraction of a positive impact this would have on the game. I also think that you're wrong about the rich guys though. Yes, they will have overpayed for their skills but their avatars should be worth more if you removed or reworked the esi costs and they'd consider chipping out again.

Lets try to make an example...

Esi costs 740%
100ped ESI ( =740 total)
mu we're gonna chip out hand gun skill which has a 1040% market value.

10% of the TT value are shaved off the 100 peds with a 1040% market value.
10ped "fee" goes to MA
And the really bad part.... the 94 peds MU will completely vanish from the ingame economy

This will give you:
90 ped Handgun skills implant valued 1040%
(90+846 ped mu =946 total)

Selling the chip will earn you 206 peds minus eventual auction fees etc. Right now the most earnings for the skills goes to the lucky guy that found the empty skill implant. Is that how it should be?

Someone will pay the 946 peds to get 90% of the skills you took out.
If he later on decides to chip out and sell the exact same skills he'll just get back 185.4 peds of his initial 946 ped investment... this is less then 20% return on your investment and a huge reason why people are not buying skills.

If they reworked the whole skill implant system and completely removed the ESI, then the loss of the MU involved could be saved and turned into something more useful.

As it is right now, MA earns 1%(10ped) of a 100ped chip with 1000%mv but it cost the economy 10%(100ped) If they removed the "shaving" and moved around the costs a little bit so that the fees turned into pure TT costs. like shoving a 100 ped implant into your head would cost 20 ped at some implanting machine or if they'd just increase the TT on the Payn-Inc and make it decay hella' lot more.

Anyway. back to what I mentioned earlier. 206 ped profit on 90% of 100 ped implant with a 1040% markup.
That's 306% back including all fees. If they removed the ESI, the skills would cost ~1/3
to buy and be worth ~3 times more to sell. in other words, chipping in and out would be an option for alot of players who would never even concider it right now. MU wouldnt dissapear into nothingness
Plus the majority of the profit would not have to go to someone who does not even have anything to do with the chipping in and out.

Imagine if this was the case and the skills cost ~740% less of the TT to implant.
I think the people that would consider chipping in and out can increase by shitloads compared to the current number. The price on the skills themselves would definitely not drop because the skills would be cheaper but also an investment, in other words they'd be alot more attracting then they are right now because alot of the peds are lost in the process.

Right now I would never consider to chip in or out, but if the skills cost dropped by 740% and they'd be worth almost the same amount if I decided to take them out. I would seriously consider it every time I'm close to unlocking a new skill or being able to equip more firepower.

The more people chipping in and out, the more money MA earns. the more money they earn, the better support we get, funnier contents and events, smoother servers etc. I love MA earning money from the game as long as it's from the right sources.

All this text and we're just seeing the tip of the iceberg, changing the skill implant system would change the economy alot. ppl would chip in, buy bigger guns, hunt bigger mobs, etc. the economy in the game would increase alot.

The 1 and only downside I can see by this is that it could become too conventient for endgame players to chip out and never consider coming back. Right now they can't do that. chipping out is not worth it. If it was worth it then the people who does, they might never consider to come back unlike now when they have a strong avatar just waiting for them it might be hard to control the urges... but then again, improving the game will attract more players.
 
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you have some point there. but 1 of the problems read in my previous post that if 100% esi the price off skills will drop and drop because of undercutting.

the only reason i would to see a change is if the one who chips out would get a bigger cut of the cake. 100% on a 50 ped skill where you worked years for isnt really fair in any case.
 
The 1 and only downside I can see by this is that it could become too conventient for endgame players to chip out and never consider coming back. Right now they can't do that. chipping out is not worth it. If it was worth it then the people who does, they might never consider to come back unlike now when they have a strong avatar just waiting for them it might be hard to control the urges... but then again, improving the game will attract more players.

Nice post mate, nice to see someone sharing my view on things.

The comment above, is not a problem in my opinion, since skills are constant, if a uber chips out and sells his skill, someone else will buy them, so we get a new uber or if split between players decently skilled players.

I don't think there will be much undercutting, since if people could avoid the 700% mu for the chip more people would buy skills, so the demand would increase, I actually think that the prices of the skills themselves would go up.
 
you have some point there. but 1 of the problems read in my previous post that if 100% esi the price off skills will drop and drop because of undercutting.

the only reason i would to see a change is if the one who chips out would get a bigger cut of the cake. 100% on a 50 ped skill where you worked years for isnt really fair in any case.

What does undercutting have to do with anything anyway? does it matter?
it will always be supply and demand.

The reason the skill costs are so low is because the current system is not practical enough, it is neither worth chipping in or out unless you are either desperate or are extremly rich.
I belive that the skills would go up alot in price overtime if they removed the esi.

Like I mentioned earlier. Someone will get ~200 peds from selling 100 ped skills @ 1040%. 10% is lost and someone buys the remaining 90% of these skills for 946 peds.
If he in turn decides to chip it out then he'll get 90% of 200 peds for his trouble and he's lost 4/5 of his investment...
There's a huge gab here between the buy and sell price. you can't even think of investing in skills to unlock skills or weaponry because there's too much money that you will never get back.
if they closed this gap, then more people would trade skills. I think the price would go up.

The better the investment the more the attraction. I don't see how the skills can go any lower then they are right now. I can see some skills spiking like crazy in value though, especially if you skip the 10% skill loss.
 
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The more peds I can circulate the more fun I have, I think alot of people share my opinion on that. being able to buy skills would be a shortcut for that. alot of people don't have the time this game require. if then they could get back atleast 90% of what they spent in their skills very many, and I mean VERY many would buy skills to save time.
chipping in to lvl 40+ would not be very expensive and you'd get most of your investment back after chipping out aswell.
 
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Also if they made chipping super easy and cheap, why would people not just create non stop alternate accounts to do some of the easier missions to get those skills and then chip them out to make their main avatar more powerful for a cheaper cost faster. Could be a huge exploit to the game. If they would remove or make those easier missions cost more to complete I could see them doing this but this could be an exploit to skilling cheaply.
 
Skill market has high demand? I highly doubt it. I can give you one month to find enough avatars to buy ALL of my SKILLs from my avatar, I would be happy to sell out, but the truth is: it's not that easy. Just ask any old players here who tried to sellout their avatars whether it was fast for them to do it or it's a process which took years to complete.
 
Skill market has high demand? I highly doubt it. I can give you one month to find enough avatars to buy ALL of my SKILLs from my avatar, I would be happy to sell out, but the truth is: it's not that easy. Just ask any old players here who tried to sellout their avatars whether it was fast for them to do it or it's a process which took years to complete.

Also sellout not worth it too.

I just chipped out ~ 87k PED worth of skill and received less than 20k ped for them because esi chewed up most of the value :(
 
getting the markup down to half of what it is now would already be a giant help imo. more frequent drops (more people getting a chance at them), and maybe it won't drop once in a blue moon. or maybe introduce them to mining/crafting loots?
 
Id always thought the esi droprate was MA's control mechanism.

If MA release a pants vu then they can stop the esi drops and there will be less ppl leaving as they cant chip out, likewise if there is a surge in players the esi rate can jump up a bit. But ultimately MA can control how many ppl are chipping with this.

Agree that we need more esi but cant see why MA would let their grip loosen on this.
 
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