I had a 2200 ped loan on fort argus bank that expired a day early

[slither]

Rick, the OP is not a victim. He went into a contract with his eyes open, and Tzepu being an honest businessman even extended the rules of the contract to safeguard against possible problems.

All he had to do to get the best chance of a positive outcome was to show some respect and contact Tzepu privately, simple as that.

 

[bigdaddy trim]

Wow!!! where is the heart in this thread, it's like a cesspit of puke.

I despise the whole so called game, more and more everyday.

It's not about who might be right or wrong, it's about finding a fair balance that everyone is happy with.

Entropia the only game that can f*** you legally out of everything.

What a bright future we have.

Rick

ps: I'm not pointing the finger at anyone, I'm pointing the finger at everyone.

I am not sure if you ever used the banking system on EU Rick and i have only ever used the the RT pawn shop that runs the same way. You get a deed like a mining claim that gives you details when your loan expires and also like mining find gives you notification when it runs out. So the op could easily keep a eye on his loan and would even been told when it expired. Also as have been pointed out many times there is a number of ways to contact the Bank owner from the date he joined the PCF he has been playing game a number of years. So he should of easily found the contact details of the owner. His story dont add up and as you know when a story dont add up, their normally more to it.

As bank are concerned i feel they do feel they have a function in the game and offer a service to players. I dont use them my self (Pawn shop was offer a deal on Alt higher than orders on auction at the time, yes fully took advantage of that. Spank me if you want i was a naughty boy ) I have good friend who owns a bank and have friends who use's banks. With so much money in game tied up in expensive items players don't need to deposit or want to getting a loan can be more cost effective than depositing.

 

[StellaBlue]

Well there's two issues

1) How parties resolve disputes.

2) Being judge a jury when one party holds all the cards, and justifying that guilty position on the basis that two wrongs "do make a right".

This is happening a lot lately, or it's at least more open to the public. Yet the public seem to want to promote this ideal of publicly flogging the victim because they didn't like what the victim said, or didn't like the approach of the victim even though it's likely the victim is feeling under considerable stress.

So in essence the message is the community prefers a society of two wrongs definitely do make a right. That those holding all the cards are God in any dispute and they make the rules.

The victim or person that might incur a loss thus deserves 100% punishment and ridicule.

For the record, I'm not attacking Tzepu. On personally level I despise all banks in EU, I consider them to be loan shark business that target the meek. They're the scum of the earth in EU or RL. That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it, I will never use a bank. I'm totally against the system in principle, especially in a game like EU, that encourages desperation often before a player properly thinks things through. It's a addictive gambler's worst nightmare.

My issue is not with that....my issue is with fairness and an outcome that suits all parties. If both walk away feeling like winners, then that is perfect business. That's how "good" business work in the real world.

My point being that maybe contributors to the thread should be shouting for a fair agreement, rather than witch hunting one party to feel pain. Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the dispute.

It would appear that Dan may have got his dates wrong and also told some half truths, however there's still a solution that everyone can come out happy and apologies made if this is due.

Rick

Absolutely agree with you 100% and wouldn't it be a better world if more people behaved in a much more positive way?

 

[M Rufen Power]

Rick, I will quote you something real quick from my favourite book.

Do to others as you would like them to do to you.

Dan should have treated Tzepu with more respect and courtesy.

There was nothing distasteful about my last comment but facts.

 

[melander]

If you want something solved in a proper manner you should have enough respect for the person to take it up with them in private. Its the way business have worked since the dawn of time.

And how is this thread victim blaming? i just cant understand how we should just ignore facts in favour of emotion and offer unlimited support for anyone raising a complaint regardless of how clear the situation is on paper.

- Jonas

 

[DanTheManKae]

First I received an email that it would be fixed. Now I'm getting emails to buy it back at basically market value. <removed>

 

[DanTheManKae]

If you want something solved in a proper manner you should have enough respect for the person to take it up with them in private. Its the way business have worked since the dawn of time.

And how is this thread victim blaming? i just cant understand how we should just ignore facts in favour of emotion and offer unlimited support for anyone raising a complaint regardless of how clear the situation is on paper.

- Jonas

I tried to take it up in private that's why I was trying to contact owner. I'm sure these scammers would love to keep the whole thing private. I'm going to make sure everyone knows what was done.

 

[DanTheManKae]

First of all, a big thank you everyone that pointed out the obvious!
Really happy to see that the community hasn't forgotten me yet, even if I'm not that active recently
Another thank you to the friend that mentioned this thread to me, I didn't see it until today.

Dan could have found my contact information in 2 seconds if he just did a search or even looked ingame.

The below sign is behind the bank teller and has been there since the bank opened years ago.


I discuss bank business privately but since Dan started this publicly I think it's only fair to answer publicly.

The gun in question expired on 2016-02-04
It was not a bug, it was not a scam and Dan did not go there 1 day late, he went there 11 days late.



Please see the below quote from the bank thread about item recovery (especially the bolded parts):
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?240878-Fort-Argus-Bank-is-open-for-business!
Post number 3

"Extended loans and lost item recovery

If you are worried about losing your items best safety is to take a screenshot of the Loan Deed. If the loan expires and the deed gets removed it will be your proof that it's your item that's in the bank. As the bank system works now I only see item name and date, no hour and especially no name.

If you have RL or ingame issues affecting you or your avatar and you realize you won't be able to repay the loan contact me here or ingame (or have a friend contact me) before the loan expires.

To extend a loan you just have to contact me before the loan expires and I will extend it for 1 extra loan term (of 30 days atm) and the cost will only be the normal bank interest.
It's possible to extend a loan just once!"

Admins, please feel free to close this thread!

I haven't used the forums very much and obviously would not want to upset someone whom I'm trying to get my gun back from. <removed>

 

[theProphet]

it seems you didn't understand anything at all ... <removed>?

 

[melander]

Great, you missed the entire point...

 

[m0rr0w2]

Reply

I'm a Christian and I believe just because Dan handled this very poorly from the beginning that Tzepu wanting to keep his reputation safe would've still made things right. I don't agree with either party here. Dan your still doing a poor job at handling this by yelling and calling him a scammer. I remember Tzepu from when I used to play and he's strictly business and is of course in it to make money. Most are going to side with Tzepu on this but even if a few don't that may cost him future customers down the road. What the hell do I know though lol.

 

[Svarog]

It's better than cutting peoples hands off, like in the old days.

Hey, it did work, don't fix what's not broken

It would appear that Dan may have got his dates wrong and also told some half truths, however there's still a solution that everyone can come out happy and apologies made if this is due.

In the days when thiefs did lose their hands, defamers did lose their lives. It's kinda fucked up that modern solution is to make them happy.

 

[DanTheManKae]

I don't understand how seeking bank owner out was so distasteful? What would you all do if it happened to you? I've been left waiting weeks only to be told I will not get my gun back after being told not to worry about it. Should I post the emails?

 

[Velum]

I don't understand how seeking bank owner out was so distasteful?

It's not. Your original wording is what caused people to draw the lines they did so quickly, or jump to the defense of the bank owner the way they did.

I've been left waiting weeks only to be told I will not get my gun back after being told not to worry about it. Should I post the emails?

I'm not entirely sure if there's a forum rule against posting IM's/emails? I could be wrong.

 

[melander]

Its not that you tried to get in contact with Tzepu its how you went about it, the name of this thread is straight up wrong for example. Besides the giant contact info sign at the bank itself you could have done a couple of simple searches to find the owner, even a pretty unspecific google search gives you the info.

Not to mention that you posted the thread almost two weeks after the expiration date of the item loan and at that point had no contact or attempted to get in contact with the owner and now almost a month later you call the owner of said bank a scammer because he does not want to give you back an item you never returned to claim. Of course people arent going to look at that favourably.


And no i dont think you should post the emails because its a private conversation and to violate that privacy would be incredibly poor etiquette.... but then again i think this thread is way beyond sticking to the standards of good etiquette....

 

[Fifth]

I'm a nice person if ppl behave nicely. Which means, if I was the bank owner and this guy comes to me 11 days late and asks nicely, both of us would walk away happy and satisfied.
If this guy calls me a scammer and screams all over the place I would go from being very nice to being very pissed off very quickly.
If someone manages to piss me off I wouldn't even consider giving him his stuff back, not even for a second.
Does that make me evil person? I'm not sure but some ppl would prolly agree.

One thing is certain, Tzepu is much nicer person than I am and has much more patience too...


I guess everything that could be said has been said. Might be a good time to wrap this up before it gets too embarassing.

 

[Serica]

...
I'm not entirely sure if there's a forum rule against posting IM's/emails? I could be wrong.

That would be this one:

2.6 - Private Communication
Posting the content from a private communication in a publicly viewable area of PlanetCalypsoForum is NOT permitted. Private communications include any medium where the involved parties have a reasonable expectation of privacy, such as: emails, chat logs, instant messenger logs, private messages, private society forum posts, private social group posts, reputation comments, etc. Such private communications are to remain private, not shared with third parties. Any such private communication content posted on PlanetCalypsoForum will be deleted without notice.

 

[Haruto Rat]

You walk into a bar and accidentally drop your wallet, some guy picks it up. What should you do?

a) Quietly say to the guy "I lost my wallet, I think that might be it".

b) Point at the guy and shout out load to everyone in the bar "This man has my wallet, I'm going to ask for it back"

I believe the most accurate application of the bar analogy to this case is this:

A guy walks into a bar and "accidentally" has two beers too much. He goes to the gents' and passes out there. 11 minutes after the bar is getting closed (no new beer served but last patrons are being given time to finish theirs) he wakes up and starts yelling at everyone "where's my (removed) beer? this whole (removed) place looks like a (removed) scam!".

While misunderstanding may indeed have happened, yelling at other patrons isn't going to help one iota.

 

[bigdaddy trim]

Its not that you tried to get in contact with Tzepu its how you went about it, the name of this thread is straight up wrong for example. Besides the giant contact info sign at the bank itself you could have done a couple of simple searches to find the owner, even a pretty unspecific google search gives you the info.

Not to mention that you posted the thread almost two weeks after the expiration date of the item loan and at that point had no contact or attempted to get in contact with the owner and now almost a month later you call the owner of said bank a scammer because he does not want to give you back an item you never returned to claim. Of course people arent going to look at that favourably.


And no i dont think you should post the emails because its a private conversation and to violate that privacy would be incredibly poor etiquette.... but then again i think this thread is way beyond sticking to the standards of good etiquette....

100% agree. The op was happy to get into a contract with the bank owner and knew its his responsibility to keep a eye on loan. Like i said before there is number of ways he could of contacted the bank owner before comming on here. More the Op protests more this story sounds fishy.

 

[The Jetman]

More the Op protests more this story sounds fishy.

I've been going the same way, if no record is kept on whose item is who, and probably didn't screenshot his deed, he could just be after a cheap Zero-three. But hey I think that's just the cynic in me.

if I was certain the gun was his, I would have come to an agreement because even if this this drama is gonna be like neg rep for the bank. but on the other hand, you don't wanna give in to bullies.


AGHH I don't know

 

[DanTheManKae]

I've been going the same way, if no record is kept on whose item is who, and probably didn't screenshot his deed, he could just be after a cheap Zero-three. But hey I think that's just the cynic in me.

if I was certain the gun was his, I would have come to an agreement because even if this this drama is gonna be like neg rep for the bank. but on the other hand, you don't wanna give in to bullies.


AGHH I don't know

Seriously? What I just heard someone else had the same gun that expired? Surprised to see so many people stick up for the bank when I'm in the right. They were going to let me pay off loan but got mad I posted on the forums. Something witch I could easily fix.

Not coming to an agreement here just validates my case, that it expired early. I also got a loan for some tt guns within 24 hours of my gun and they were still there when I got back. I checked deed in my inventory before flying back. IMO this was intentional. Not much I can do about it now but quit EU. Sucks finally got to 160k skill points too. I'll talk to support but doubt they will help me. Depending on how they go about it I might stay. TY to those who didn't blindly put faith in the bank.

It's really sad to see how the community attacks someone who was not meaning to insult at all at first. I was just in a panic trying to contact owner. Sorry I missed the small sign. Not every one is on here 24/7 and knows everything.

The fact of the matter is they wanted the gun. Those of you who attacked me, I hope you get scammed and come to the forum seeking help only to be ridiculed. To those who stuck up for me I am genuinely grateful. As for truths and half truths I did not lie about anything. It was either a glitch or they expired it early. I'd really like to know if support or the bank has control over the deeds and when they expire. I have a feeling it's the bank. And if it's EU then I still think it was a glitch.

I flew back from Arkadia specially to grab the gun. Also had been counting the days I had to claim, was very busy IRL and waited till the last day, that is my fault I take full blame for that.

As for verifying ownership I have plenty of screen shots using the gun as well as plenty of avatars whom know it's mine. Karma comes around, that I do believe in.

 

[DanTheManKae]

Let me add if you all knew me IRL, you would know I'm an honest person. Perhaps there was a misunderstanding here, but it doesn't look that way to me. As for the thread I really did not know it would piss the bank owners off and that was unintentional. I honestly thought it was a EU glitch, and don't see how that would be the banks fault.

 

[Svarog]

Listen to yourself. A bank owner scams out an item, ruining a business that's worth thousands times more than the item. Totally plausible, the best story since Zuckerberg had been caught at Walmart stealing chewing gum.

 

[Tzepu]

I tried to take it up in private that's why I was trying to contact owner. I'm sure these scammers would love to keep the whole thing private. I'm going to make sure everyone knows what was done.

Dan, you are acting exactly like a bully.
Even after posting crap like this you still email me saying you'll ask the mods to remove the posts if I give you the gun back. You do realize that's extortion right?

I've went above and beyond the call of duty for you, explained the bank rules, told you what you did wrong, you kept saying it was some bug and it expired early, I sent a support case and the answer proved without a doubt that the loan expired on the 4th and not when you claim it did and based on all that I took my decision.

You just don't want to understand that how you acted was wrong from numerous aspects and now you see the consequences.

I am a reasonable person, many people said it right here in the thread. I make exceptions to the bank rules for people that deserve it but you clearly don't deserve it.

End of story.

 

[Tzepu]

The fact of the matter is they wanted the gun. Those of you who attacked me, I hope you get scammed and come to the forum seeking help only to be ridiculed. To those who stuck up for me I am genuinely grateful. As for truths and half truths I did not lie about anything. It was either a glitch or they expired it early. I'd really like to know if support or the bank has control over the deeds and when they expire. I have a feeling it's the bank. And if it's EU then I still think it was a glitch.

I flew back from Arkadia specially to grab the gun. Also had been counting the days I had to claim, was very busy IRL and waited till the last day, that is my fault I take full blame for that.

The bank does not control the deeds, support does not control the deeds, they expire ONLY 30 days after they are taken.
Already explained this to you via email and you already saw the answer from support, IT WAS NOT A BUG so just stop making stuff up.

Here is support case I sent (I am allowed to post this since it's not private conversation with the thread starter)

"2016-02-24 21:58 You wrote:

Hello,
I'm the owner of Fort Argus Bank and I hope you can help me by checking an expired loan. I have not claimed the item and it's still in Bank interface under Expired Loans.
According to the bank interface the loan in question for a Isis Project Zero-Three was taken on 2016-01-05 and expired on 2016-02-04.
The avatar who took the loan "Dan TheManWithThePlan Kae" claims that the loan was supposed to expire 2016-02-10 and that he still had the loan deed in his inventory when he flew back from Arkadia to Calypso on 2016-02-09 to pay it back.
Is it possible to have a look at the loan and tell me if the dates I see in the bank interface are correct? Is it possible that the loan deed was bugged and showed a different expiration date?

Best Regards,
Tzepu




2016-02-25 10:33 Entropia Universe Support:

Hi Tzepu,

Thank you for contacting us.

According to our logs the loan was taken on 2016-01-05 at 23:49:23.

The loan taker then had until 2016-02-05 at 00:00:00 to pay it back.

Kind regards,
Hank | Entropia Universe Support"

 

[Fifth]

I was just in a panic trying to contact owner. Sorry I missed the small sign.

Your gun expired on 4th Feb 2016.
What was the 1st thing you did after that? A post on the forum.
The date on your post is: 15th Feb 2016

This means you were in panic for 11 days.

 

[Aio]

Are there any rules here on defamation? Because as far as I can tell this is the definition of it.

 

[DanTheManKae]

Dan, you are acting exactly like a bully.
Even after posting crap like this you still email me saying you'll ask the mods to remove the posts if I give you the gun back. You do realize that's extortion right?

I've went above and beyond the call of duty for you, explained the bank rules, told you what you did wrong, you kept saying it was some bug and it expired early, I sent a support case and the answer proved without a doubt that the loan expired on the 4th and not when you claim it did and based on all that I took my decision.

You just don't want to understand that how you acted was wrong from numerous aspects and now you see the consequences.

I am a reasonable person, many people said it right here in the thread. I make exceptions to the bank rules for people that deserve it but you clearly don't deserve it.

End of story.

This is so ridiculous you are basically saying if I didn't come to the forum looking for you, that I would get the gun back. To say I tried to extort you is so ridiculous, I said I would fix the forum thing if you made it right. Am I supposed to get scammed and not tell anyone? I'll bet you would like that. You even have friends come post stuff in your defense like straight shills. As for the bank not needing money, you obviously need it pretty bad to scam me like that. You want to rip me off and no one know about it. We'll that's not how it's going to go. I did try and be very reasonable.

YOU TOLD ME IN AN EMAIL NOT TO WORRY AND THAT YOU WOULD FIX IT! IS THIS NOT DISHONEST TO LEAVE ME WAITING WEEKS ONLY TO TELL ME I'M SCREWED????? AND YOU IDIOTS STICKING UP FOR THIS SCAMMER WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU?? WOULD I MAKE SUCH A FUSS IF I FELT I WAS IN THE WRONG?????????

 

[DanTheManKae]

Your gun expired on 4th Feb 2016.
What was the 1st thing you did after that? A post on the forum.
The date on your post is: 15th Feb 2016

This means you were in panic for 11 days.

I didn't know you were god and could see everything? Oh right your taking a shady bankers word for it.

 

[DanTheManKae]

The bank does not control the deeds, support does not control the deeds, they expire ONLY 30 days after they are taken.
Already explained this to you via email and you already saw the answer from support, IT WAS NOT A BUG so just stop making stuff up.

Here is support case I sent (I am allowed to post this since it's not private conversation with the thread starter)

"2016-02-24 21:58 You wrote:

Hello,
I'm the owner of Fort Argus Bank and I hope you can help me by checking an expired loan. I have not claimed the item and it's still in Bank interface under Expired Loans.
According to the bank interface the loan in question for a Isis Project Zero-Three was taken on 2016-01-05 and expired on 2016-02-04.
The avatar who took the loan "Dan TheManWithThePlan Kae" claims that the loan was supposed to expire 2016-02-10 and that he still had the loan deed in his inventory when he flew back from Arkadia to Calypso on 2016-02-09 to pay it back.
Is it possible to have a look at the loan and tell me if the dates I see in the bank interface are correct? Is it possible that the loan deed was bugged and showed a different expiration date?

Best Regards,
Tzepu




2016-02-25 10:33 Entropia Universe Support:

Hi Tzepu,

Thank you for contacting us.

According to our logs the loan was taken on 2016-01-05 at 23:49:23.

The loan taker then had until 2016-02-05 at 00:00:00 to pay it back.

Kind regards,
Hank | Entropia Universe Support"

I thought posting private mail was not allowed? Does this mean I can post the email where he promised to fix it for me?