I have an idea about property values.

[Lorespade]

Ok i am going to explain this the best i can.


I am thinking of a way that adds real value to property value that comes in the form of improving the property through investments both over time and invested.

Think of a property like it was an item with a unlimited health bar/ TT value.

~~ by the way i am talking small numbers, not like 100k type of numbers, just like 1s,10s,100s, at a time. depending on situations. but with no cap.

If this property was well maintained such as an apartment the TT value would raise a little over time giving it more value when resell time comes.

If this land was a shop. if this shop was well maintained the TT value would go up over time, and bonuses to the TT value if that shop had a good deal of buisness. like X amount of buisness per month would bring the TT value up more overtime.

And a LAnd area depending on how well maintained and used the land is the higher the TT value would raise. like improvment points if the land had alot of improvemnt points one month and supported more mobs and what not the TT value would go up.


Now on the flip-side if these things are not well maintained the TT value would be shaved off over time.

Now just to not make you guys trip out too much. The TT values unless well maintaied over a long period of time, would be in small amounts but would help reflect how that individual peice of property has faired under it owner.

And the TT value adding system can be opt out by the owner of the land, as to add to the TT value the LA owner would have to inject their own PED into it. but only small amounts over time.

Or when a buyer buys the land a portion of the commissions will go to the TT value of the property, giving a kick start to the system.

Now why would you want to do this?

Well huge investments like these cannot just be completly player driven and be basically worthless at the same time.

Lets say you needed a little cash. you could in essence take your land to a in game bank if the TT value is set to 1000 PED. then you can get a loan for that amount with land as your collateral.

Or if you were to resell a well maintaied property bidding could start at a higher number based on a TT value.


This is just an idea to help improve some aspects off the property market. if any thing makes things a little more interesting.


Tell me what you think. gimme pros and cons. Add some ideas of your own start a disscussion. How would you feel if this was implimented? would you work on improving the TT value? Is this idea just stupid? let me know what u think

 

[Brooklyn]

Like the idea... It would make the idea of absent land owners and property speculators who are just holding on to properties... pay for it... the pro would be more time investment and commitment by players and also the chance to make the whole of property investment more dynamic.

 

[Lorespade]

Like the idea... It would make the idea of absent land owners and property speculators who are just holding on to properties... pay for it...

i wouldnt say pay for it, completly. the TT value itself would have to be built up over time. like at current prices it would take 20 years or so to make the price of a land's TT value to go up to the point of what they are selling for now. at least for some property's.

But yeah a poor manager of land still would not have to sell for TT price or anything. it will still be player driven.

But in respects to MA and FPC, they would honor the increased Value of the property. through the TT.

 

[Peatie]

...
Well huge investments like these cannot just be completly player driven and be basically worthless at the same time.
...

My gut feel is:
huge investments=any investments
player driven=market value
basically worthless=TT value

Isn't that kinda the main point of the game? TT+ value is allways decided by the market. Artifically altering the TT value like that just seems to defy the whole point of having a real cach economy in the first place?

<shrug>

 

[Lorespade]

My gut feel is:
huge investments=any investments
player driven=market value
basically worthless=TT value

Isn't that kinda the main point of the game? TT+ value is allways decided by the market. Artifically altering the TT value like that just seems to defy the whole point of having a real cach economy in the first place?

<shrug>

I am sorry TT value is not determined by other players. TT value is the value at which MA/FPC honors the value of an item at. if you had a 10000TTvalue PED item and you were banned from the game, MA owes you what $1000.

now that is not taking into account and mark ups that item has. TT value is set to zero. any thing more is mark up. and you pay TT value, then mark up.


All propertys are pure Mark-up driven.

Artifically raising the TT value of a property worth 0.01 PED,

To lets say for a shop. over a period of 6 months a simi sucessful shop can raise its TT value from. 0.01 to 60.00 PED. and shops sell for what.... 15000 ped. I really dont see how there is anything wrong here.

Youstill need to jump a whole series of mark-ups. to obtain the property.


So its like this in a way. pay your maitnence fee on a apartment and a small portion of the fee goes to a TT value fund. raising the land value a small amount over time. say you miss a maintnence fee and was 1 week late. a small % of that TT fund is deducted from the property.

In a way raising the TT value of a apartment for those that pay. and it reflects well for them when it comes time to resell. becouse the TT value will follow. Also the place will not close until the TT value is set back to 0.01 TT value. So giving you a chance to over time not need to pay a fee to enter also.

if some one keeps up with payments the longer it can stay open without a fee to be put in.

as to do with shops also.

as far as land areas a raised cap on improvment points and based on the improvments a TT value can reflect the improvments, and the profitability the land area has show to bring in on average.

All while TT value remains low enough not to affect Mark-ups. while giving binefits such as a value system to judge a land, or the perks a shop has as far as foot traffic, or maitnence free time period. and living estates matnece free periods.

thats what i am proposing.

What i am not proposing is

Making TT value reflect what an owner paid for the land. and having some extra TT amount tagged on if the TT value has no value.

So i am saying if there is Time + investment into a property, then the TT goes up and the investment can be drained by not paying the fees, or letting it just sit there.

 

[Peatie]

I am sorry TT value is not determined by other players. TT value is the value at which MA/FPC honors the value of an item at. if you had a 10000TTvalue PED item and you were banned from the game, MA owes you what $1000.

now that is not taking into account and mark ups that item has. TT value is set to zero. any thing more is mark up. and you pay TT value, then mark up.


All propertys are pure Mark-up driven.
...

Yup, exactly. When I put "TT+" I meant "TT+markup" Sorry for not being clearer.

One of my main issues was where this extra TT was meant to come from... If the answer is FPC/MA then you can pretty much guarantee it won't happen. That said, I get what you are saying about a % of the maintenance fee going into some kind of pot, and that kinda solves that problem, but it still feels like a manipulation of the market prices to me.

Interesting and well thought out idea though,

Peatie.

 

[Fizbinthemagi]

only way i see this happening would be if land and house's and such could be upgraded

example: lets say i own a castle somewhere(which i dont) i could add another tower and the value of the tower(lets say 1000 ped) would be added to the value of the castle dead, but could also be removed like an attachment

example: i own a land area (which i dont)and i set a new house there(lets call it a house pad, kinda like a shopkeeper, but deploys into a house instead), the tt value of the house would be added to the LA deed

not sure how shops would work, seeing as how the malls probable couldn't be expanded(unless MA comes up with some dimension compression technology for us to use)

 

[mastermesh]

Bad idea...

REALLY BAD IDEA...

There's a lot of "brothers/sisters/mothers/father" avatars out there, etc. If this system was implemented, what would keep Player A from not having his "cousin" come in and buy the item in a shop a few times every day, handing it back to his cousin daily... in essence, paying to artificially increase the TT value and artificial value of the item at the same time. We already see this happen a lot here in the forums in the buying/selling threads, and also on the in game auction... No need to feed the reseller's esteem by making their artificial inflation system actually work better.

only way i see this happening would be if land and house's and such could be upgraded

example: lets say i own a castle somewhere(which i dont) i could add another tower and the value of the tower(lets say 1000 ped) would be added to the value of the castle dead, but could also be removed like an attachment

example: i own a land area and i set a new house(lets call it a house pad, kinda like a shopkeeper, but deploys into a house instead), the tt value of the house would be added to the LA deed

not sure how shops would work, seeing as how the malls probable couldn't be expanded(unless MA comes up with some dimension compression technology for us to use)

Upgrade system is a neat idea. That already exists in the form of DNA on LAs... also exist in the form of signs/shopkeepers, etc. that some estate owners sell along with the estate itself as a package deal... however, a way to really "increase" value of the estate itself and not just add items to the estate to sell along with the deed would be a neat idea worth investigating. Give me that hammer and nail kit so that I can blast a whole in my wall and make a balcony like what apartment G has. Give me some of that timber to build my house. Give me some concrete so that I can change the direction of the roads or sidewalks. Give me something special to add to the place - make modifications to this powerful TP chip with some tools so that I can add a TP device to the Living room that will let avatars visiting my place travel freely to other planets so they won't have to go find a pilot and pay his outragous taxi cab fee. Give me some form of permanent shopkeepers so that I can add more item slots to the place - although I personally like shopkeepers as they are since they are mobile. If I choose to move to another planet some day, they can come along for the ride! Let's see you try to move a mall shop (unless you are MA and get a ton of complaints on the forums and support tickets about how VU 10 caused estates to be in different locations, lowering perceived value of the estates, you are not going to be able to do it)...

 

[Lorespade]

i see your concern as far as inflating the prices, but i think that building up rent on a property overtime could be something worth paying a little more for. But i am not talking completly perminate improvements on houses or anything.

And really the TT added over time would in no way affect the way the mark ups are..

Its like a TV sells for $800. its $800 becouse it is a TV. But in that TV is some parts worth $80, they are parts worth selling individualy in the event the TV breaks.

If the TV does break, sure you can give it away for free, or you can identify the parts and sell the parts for $80. you can also see if someone is willing to spend $80.00 over the base price knowing they go for $800.

The price should in no way come close to 20% of of the mark up costs.

And if someone wanted to exploit this it would be pointless to do so, as the TT value would really mean nothing in respects to the mark ups that will still need to be paid.

But the rewards of doing this clearly defined to the owner, such as a way to enter it into a bank for collateral. or extended time the fees would not have to be paid at the expence of decay of TT value.

I dont feel as if it is a way to manipulate the prices of these propertys if there is a clear benifit from having an increased TT value.

So iam giving you some binifits to adding to the TT value. and the manipulation would seriouly have to take place over a long period of time like 2 years. for it to really make it profitable.

And the recycleing of peds by a buddy in a shop, think that if a small % of tax paid goes to the added TT value. then the added TT value goes to extending maitnence allowing you to stay open longer without paying fee, as if you dont pay fee the TT value starts to deplete.

This added Value would be a real value, not a fake value. and would have to be built upon over time. not like i pay X amount to improve and expect the TT value to raise as i ask it to.

But a slow grind of a small tax % going to pot, and that pot adds up to a real tangible binifit.

 

[mastermesh]

And if someone wanted to exploit this it would be pointless to do so, as the TT value would really mean nothing in respects to the mark ups that will still need to be paid.

You believe that the TT value would have no meaning, but I think it would have a major impact. The closest thing in game to this sort of idea that I can think of are unlimited BPs. They go up in value over time as they are used (QR increases). They start out at .01 TT value and end up with 1.00 tt value. There is a MASSIVE difference in market value between the lower QR BPs and the higher QR BPs.

 

[Lorespade]

hmm yeah i am seeing what your saying thats a good point. but it also adds to what i am trying to say. It might just affect mark-ups. but the question is.

Would it be worth buying a Low QR BP or a higher one?

And same could go with property.

Should i buy a Rent free for x amount of time or pay and build up the amount of rent free time?


It is rather interesting. But i feel it does give a more real value to the things. dont get me wrong they have value allrdy. but true value that can be transfered. they lack that.

 

[Bernz]

oK, I'm dumb and I dont understand at all what would be the use of such a difficult system.

Lets say you needed a little cash. you could in essence take your land to a in game bank if the TT value is set to 1000 PED. then you can get a loan for that amount with land as your collateral.

Or if you were to resell a well maintaied property bidding could start at a higher number based on a TT value.

Banks owner know very well that a Land worth much more than the actual TT value.

And even if a TT value is added to the deed because it's well maintained, it do not mean the estate is better than another. It's the owner and how it's opperated that make the difference, not the TT value.
If I buy a shop closed since years, it do not mean I will not make it a very good shop and vice-versa.


.

 

[Lorespade]

other things the TT value upgrade reflects is a bonus of sorts of how long the estate can go without a fee payment and remain open. and by not paying you drain the TT value accumulated over time.

And the TT value will not be alot.

Like you pay 10 ped monthly 1 ped would go to the TT value. this one ped can keep your doors open for 3 days and then TT value is set back to 0. however if you pay within the due date, you will have 2 ped value, allowing 6 days without paying fee. before doors close.

In a sence allowing for improved investment in land you already own. so when it comes time to resell the land you can offer the buyer more than just a deed, but offer them X amount of days Fee Free.

Making people that take time to do this and pretty much use the land to its fullest can be rewarded later.

a buyer can have the option to just get a deed with low TT value, pay less have to pay fees monthly.

Or but a TTvalue improved Deed, be offered with a few days fee free. if they choise to not participate in it they can wait til The daily decay to drop the TT value.

I really dont see how this is complicated.

Property owners are already paying fee's. why not have a % of the Fee's go to something that can possibly binifit you in the long run.

Its one thing to keep market prices up really high, but if you really have some equity into the Property that would be a reason for it to be high priced.

Just think of it like this. a new estate with no investment via TT upgrades, would in effect be worth less than one that has been used.

Giving a real value to player investments over time will also help to keep you falling completly flat on your ass if the market takes a plunge.

MA/FPC would have to honor the accumulated value of the land. they will not however honor the mark-up you paid to get the land.

Now they pay you .01 pec. you paid 100000. <example

They could honor 25.00 PED, and you paid 100000. < example

If someone was a reseller of land and they wished to buy and hold and not pay the Fee's, they would sell on market value alone.

If they wanted to pay the fee's they would be putting money into the game while holding land and the return they will get will be a min. however they would have to compete with other offers while maintaining a profit.

I really dont know here. i might just be some high school educated American idiot. but who sees my arguement? all i have is negitivity so far.

 

[aia]

In fact, estates can have "TT"-value, that is what the "restrictred" and "restriction date" is for. How? Simply leave items in/on the estate and sell the estate in "restricted" mode. Restricted mode is a way to "lock" items to a property while it's in trade.

If you have a castle (or apartment) with furniture, the castle will be worth (0+) the TT of the stuff inside the castle+the total markup.

If you have an apartment, you can pay 10 months advance rent on it, and when you sell the buyer will have advantage of it.

If you have a land area, the DNA (which had TT value when they were inserted) and the fertilizer in it goes with the area (as far as I know)(*). The fertilizer isn't that much of a value, but the DNA can be valuable if it's unique enough (like Chomper).

Though, the TT/value of an estate isn't calculated automatically; a potential buyer would have to visit the estate to figure out the value, total TT value doesn't show up on deed.

(*) One big exception: For land grab areas, when the lease expires and MA takes the areas back, MA will practically remove all existing fertilizer & set settings to 0. Or, at least they did last time land areas expired.

 

[Lorespade]

In fact, estates can have "TT"-value, that is what the "restrictred" and "restriction date" is for. How? Simply leave items in/on the estate and sell the estate in "restricted" mode. Restricted mode is a way to "lock" items to a property while it's in trade.

If you have a castle (or apartment) with furniture, the castle will be worth (0+) the TT of the stuff inside the castle+the total markup.

If you have an apartment, you can pay 10 months advance rent on it, and when you sell the buyer will have advantage of it.

If you have a land area, the DNA (which had TT value when they were inserted) and the fertilizer in it goes with the area (as far as I know)(*). The fertilizer isn't that much of a value, but the DNA can be valuable if it's unique enough (like Chomper).

(*) One big exception: For land grab areas, when the lease expires and MA takes the areas back, MA will practically remove all existing fertilizer & set settings to 0. Or, at least they did last time land areas expired.

Interesting information. but what i am failing to understand is based on your facts.

if you pay 10 month of rent in advanced and the buyer if you sold, why is there no accountability of those Free Fee days? at least in terms of a TT value?

As far as adding to the TT value by restriction, i am mostly focusing on a Gradual increase of real value(TT), instead of solely moving the Real estate Market based from pure mark-ups.

As the more Real value assotiated to a property the less losses you will have if you hold it long enough, and properly maintain it.



"but also forgive me as i dont own land or anything, i am just throwing out ideas"

 

[aia]

As far as adding to the TT value by restriction, i am mostly focusing on a Gradual increase of real value(TT), instead of solely moving the Real estate Market based from pure mark-ups.

As the more Real value assotiated to a property the less losses you will have if you hold it long enough, and properly maintain it.

Since MA probably wants to go +/- 0 on TT, if something increases in value it has to come from something. And dunno if someone wants to have (more and more) PEDs locked in something indefinitely.

As for "proper maintenance" and the payout; if a land area is "proplerly maintained", the land owner will get taxed from it. Though, a land owner can chose to have the land area as designated for miners, which means no expenses in fertilizer... There can be other costs for a miners-only LA, like event prizes (screenshot type events) and cost for advertising (EFD), but those are hard to measure (for MA).

There is one thing that has/used to have TT values: Pets/pet deeds. The TT value of a pet was how much "energy" the pet had, as measured as the TT value of the nutribars. You couldn't TT a pet deed though, but if you dismissed a pet and it still had energy you would get that "energy value" back in the form of PEDs/PECs (usually a bad idea though since you wouln't get the markup of, mainly, the fruit back). This TT value (depending on energy) would generally go down with time, and only go up when you gave the pet food (nutribars).

 

[Lorespade]

Since MA probably wants to go +/- 0 on TT, if something increases in value it has to come from something. And dunno if someone wants to have (more and more) PEDs locked in something indefinitely.

As for "proper maintenance" and the payout; if a land area is "proplerly maintained", the land owner will get taxed from it. Though, a land owner can chose to have the land area as designated for miners, which means no expenses in fertilizer... There can be other costs for a miners-only LA, like event prizes (screenshot type events) and cost for advertising (EFD), but those are hard to measure (for MA).

There is one thing that has/used to have TT values: Pets/pet deeds. The TT value of a pet was how much "energy" the pet had, as measured as the TT value of the nutribars. You couldn't TT a pet deed though, but if you dismissed a pet and it still had energy you would get that "energy value" back in the form of PEDs/PECs (usually a bad idea though since you wouln't get the markup of, mainly, the fruit back). This TT value (depending on energy) would generally go down with time, and only go up when you gave the pet food (nutribars).

yeah but the land owners are already being taxed. by the maintnece fees, and what not. taking a small portion of what they are already paying to divert it to increasing the TT value of the property, shouldnt be too much of a problem in my eyes. as it only increases the value of at least the "binifits that it brings"

As far as Land areas go. If the person wishes to let it be a miner haven by not improving the land, then undeveloped land is what it would sell for. As Developed land will be worth more. But yet for some reason i do not feel as if people are really buying based on these varibles. it seems like everything is flat across the board. and in my eyes this is kinda weird.

why would you pay more for less. having knowing what you are buying can be refelected in a small TT value. that in no way will affect the total mark-up price. but haveing a system could in fact create a better method of determining what is the better deal of

A: undeveloped, no investments included

B Developed, with TT value % of development, and investments,

Just so people know what they are indeed buying with little effort.

Having it be a system where it does +/- to TT, then being pure mark up. clearly all the +'s will need to come from players.


Take Right now for example.

Alot of shops are closed due to rent. Loot pool has been affected. If fees from shops and apartment go into the loot pool.
Then if a small % is held back in the TT value, that is holding a small amount from the loot pool as it sits in the property.

If people had enough days of TT value to sustain the property for 3 months the decay from not paying the Fee. the TT value of the deed would trickle back into the loot pool. and lowering the TT value of the shops and apartment. but sustaining the loot pool, during difficult times.

~~~~~~~~~~~~ Theory ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Becouse there is no such system in place, Alot of propertys are not being paid for, and this in turn has affected the loot pool.

Think if apartments and shop fees goto loot that is based on Furnature creation. and now wood and other things that make furnature are dropping less becouse they are worth less.

Now if the loot pool is based on weapon making loot drops to make new weapons, same with tailoring. but if you have less people making weapons then ores go down in drop rates.

So in a way it has further uses as far as protecting the game mechanics on a whole.

 

[mastermesh]

it seems like everything is flat across the board.

Currently, prices are primarily based on estate size (G apartments cost most since they are bigger, have more item points and a balcony as well as a second room), location, and location in relationship to the nearest TP. For instance, Genesis is not typically visited as much as Bilton, so most properties at Bilton seem to go for more. Sort of the same with how fewer people seem to wander over to Genesis vs going to Omegaton, so estates over at Genesis sometimes sell for less... of course, it's all relative since all estate deeds are lumped in to one big pile as far as market history goes.

Theory

Theories are fun... my theory is that rent payments go directly to MA, sort of as a decay fee that is paid when things are repaired. It might go to the loot pool, but I would not count on it.

Taxes always go to the Land owner. Although, on some LAs, MA is the land owner, I think... not sure if that would mean the money there goes back to loot pool or MA's pocketbook.

 

[Lorespade]

based on your theory then MA is not getting paid so they need to expand how they get money becouse their cash cow of housing is not opperating to its fullest, so they are skimming off the loot pool.

But seriously i think the loot problems are becouse houseing and shops are not being paid their monthly dues, and the loot pool is affected, so now the loot pool is only running based from the other operatinal methods.

this could be affermed by bad loots pre VU 10. also.

Remember MA said they only take from items decay when itis being used. items not estates, perhaps someone from FPC should further clairify this fact and make theory into fact. so we can figure out a solution, and ways to keep it from happining again. thats just my openion.

But yeah i do feel what your saying about size also, bigger costs more. and certain locations cost also.

at any rate, i beleive whatever we do as players can help bring things out of the funk i keep hearing about. but then again FPC has to act as a reglatory force.