Impact of FPC/MA events on EU economy

[sitram]

Hello,

I've been closely monitor last major events and the way they have influenced the economy inside EU and I must say I'm quite dissapointed in the way MA/FPC is handling this.

It's like every time a new major feature is released we have a situation similar with RL economic crysis in EU. You can easily see the impact if you look a the auction graphs. I'm not talking here about a slow decrease of markup on some items while other increase, which imo it should be normal, but a fast fall/rise in markup/sale volume over a short period of time. Usualy this means a 1-10% drop rate in a matter of days, sometimes even over night.

For me, as a colonist who constatly cycles ped and relays a lot on the economy ingame to sell the loot, these short spikes are not good. Not just me, as a simple colonist is affected by this spykes, but also larger possible investors. Just like RL, investors like stability and this is not a sign a stability in the economy ingame.

Let's take for example the most recent major event released by FPC: over 80 missions. What happened with two of the most comonly used ores: blausarium dropped with over 4% in a day or so and markup on narcanisium dropped with over 10%. Wools/Hides all dropped with 1-2% maybe even more for the rare ones in less then a day. I lost close to 100 peds in auction fees because I was unfortunate enough to fill the auction just in the evening before the mission VU and almost nothing sold after the missions.

Same thing happened to the economy when CP was open after VU10.

I would like to see these features beeing introduced gradually in EU and a closer monitor over their impact in the economy since the EU community is small enough to suffer a huge impact if they are released all at once.

What's your oppinion on this matter?

 

[DavinFelth]

great point

They always talk about how they don't want to add items with TT value because it can effect the economy... which is true it would. But having a quest where 100 avatars are going to kill 1000 argos..... iron is gonna drop dramatically. (just one example)
This is a serious effect on the economy. I know that it works like that in economies.... ebb and flow... supply and demand...
but it's just seems hypocritical saying that they don't wanna add TT value stuff but place an immediate huge increase of supply and sharp decrease of demand.
I mean I don't know how else they can do it. They just gotta add the quests, and I'm glad they did. I am just seeing exactly what you are saying. It's a shame you have lost that much on fees, but alas that is the risk taken in auctions and buying/trading.
I'm just trying to support you and add my 2 pecs.

 

[combo22]

My opinion is : You are bored at work!
am I right?

What you wrote here is not even close a big problem for EU, there are a lot of bigger problems that keep people off depositing and fuel the economy.

 

[sitram]

My opinion is : You are bored at work!
am I right?

What you wrote here is not even close a big problem for EU, there are a lot of bigger problems that keep people off depositing and fuel the economy.

I enjoy talking about various aspects of EU because I enjoy playing EU(even before I got my ubers). I haven't said this is THE biggest problem in EU but it's a problem with a serious impact imop, especially since FPC is incapable of increasing it's playerbase due to the high cost of playing EU at a higher level then killing snables and exa.

Why don't you add something construction on my threads for once? I used to value your oppinion but lately something changed in your view of EU

PS: Yes, I'm borred at work and also waiting to compile this damn software because I have a SW release today

 

[Executor]

Deleted post.

 

[mastermesh]

For me, as a colonist who constatly cycles ped and relays a lot on the economy ingame to sell the loot, these short spikes are not good. Not just me, as a simple colonist is affected by this spykes, but also larger possible investors. Just like RL, investors like stability and this is not a sign a stability in the economy ingame.

Don't like spikes, make your own... that's what it seems a lot of folks do.

 

[jdegre]

what you're describing is simply what happens with narrow and highly volatile markets. some people would argue if this is a problem or a feature, since there are people that use this volatility to their own advantage.

 

[sitram]

This is a good thing that EU economy is not stable and is strongly related to events, etc.

Just think that if it was totally predictable, everyone would know the good deals and would hunt/trade the same things... therefore ruinning the good deals.


Having new features or events/missions is actually a good opportunity for business. When you know the markets, you can see pretty fast what are the trends and adapt your playing to profit from it. If the markup of some loot is decreasing because more players hunt the same mobs, then the markup of some other loot - from mobs no longer hunted - is increasing.

When everything falls down over night it's not good. It's like out of the sudden those esi's you've been saving in storage and placed them in auction today dropped from 650% to 350% over night. Would you like something like that?

Of course, if you don't own anything or you have no loot saved in storage it doesn't matter but for those who actually gather loot to sell it in larger stacks to help crafters who like to do bigger rounds, a quick fall is not good.

As I said in my starting post, I believe that the fall or rise in price should be progresivly and over a certain period of time not out of the sudden.

 

[rhogenbe]

It will be a temporary effect. Most players will do them up to 1k kills and slow down after wards and just occasionally add to their totals and slowly finish the higher kill amount missions. I know a few people who are buying Iron as low as possible anticipating it will start to rise again in a few weeks. Since it can not drop a lot more in price they can not really hurt themselves with speculation like this.

But like many things the effect of missions is not fully thought through. They could see just analyzing the data from the first 5 missions they introduced that the moment it became knowledge that at mission 5 you could earn a stamina point that every serious player went for it. So now they give away Agility/Strength/Psyche/<and more?> so a child can understand there will be a rush. But the rush will pass. They do favor some LA owners who happen to have the right DNA for the missions and in respect kill temporary the business of the LA owners who don't.

Every release we have seen from MA causes a change in the balance of Entropia. Sometimes we profit from the change sometimes we don't. I remember having 2k gazurdite ingots when they introduced the OA101(L) BP.
I made some nice money with that. And hunting drones was quite profitable for a long time because of this.

I would not be surprised that a next load of missions will fill up missions with the mobs that are now missing in the missions. No doubt some LA owners complained about their mobs not having missions.

The question is will there still be an unbalance after the initial big bulk of missions has been introduced.

No doubt we will see missions craft 5k generic leather texture or global once on a generic leather texture BP and maybe get 1 Intelligence or 100 levels of engineering. Which would lead to rises in price of generic leather texture.

Cheers
Siam

 

[sitram]

what you're describing is simply what happens with narrow and highly volatile markets. some people would argue if this is a problem or a feature, since there are people that use this volatility to their own advantage.

Instead of 80 missions released all at once they could have released all the 100 mobs Iron missions and the other quests in first phase. After a month release the missions with 500 mobs. After another month the 1k missions and so on.

CP could have been introduced with a tax for auction when it was open.

When a new mob is introduced, in the first weeks they could make available just a small spawn over a larger area and gradually tweak it to suit the needs of the hunters and to not have a huge impact over the economy or ppl hunting habits.

 

[PW3CKA]

Exactly you! should care about some 10% spikes in MU with your luck !!

You are so poor from playing EU that these MU drops are killing you !!

Dont you want to have a nice cup of shut the fuck up?

Or do you have need to complain on MA after what they gave you? :f

 

[Dan59]

It will be a temporary effect. Most players will do them up to 1k kills and slow down after wards and just occasionally add to their totals and slowly finish the higher kill amount missions. I know a few people who are buying Iron as low as possible anticipating it will start to rise again in a few weeks. Since it can not drop a lot more in price they can not really hurt themselves with speculation like this.

But like many things the effect of missions is not fully thought through. They could see just analyzing the data from the first 5 missions they introduced that the moment it became knowledge that at mission 5 you could earn a stamina point that every serious player went for it. So now they give away Agility/Strength/Psyche/<and more?> so a child can understand there will be a rush. But the rush will pass. They do favor some LA owners who happen to have the right DNA for the missions and in respect kill temporary the business of the LA owners who don't.

Every release we have seen from MA causes a change in the balance of Entropia. Sometimes we profit from the change sometimes we don't. I remember having 2k gazurdite ingots when they introduced the OA101(L) BP.
I made some nice money with that. And hunting drones was quite profitable for a long time because of this.

I would not be surprised that a next load of missions will fill up missions with the mobs that are now missing in the missions. No doubt some LA owners complained about their mobs not having missions.
The question is will there still be an unbalance after the initial big bulk of missions has been introduced.

No doubt we will see missions craft 5k generic leather texture or global once on a generic leather texture BP and maybe get 1 Intelligence or 100 levels of engineering. Which would lead to rises in price of generic leather texture.

Cheers
Siam

They f***ed proterons for that reason already.

 

[combo22]

I enjoy talking about various aspects of EU because I enjoy playing EU(even before I got my ubers). I haven't said this is THE biggest problem in EU but it's a problem with a serious impact imop, especially since FPC is incapable of increasing it's playerbase due to the high cost of playing EU at a higher level then killing snables and exa.

Why don't you add something construction on my threads for once? I used to value your oppinion but lately something changed in your view of EU

PS: Yes, I'm bored at work and also waiting to compile this damn software because I have a SW release today

You see, second post is much better that first one, of course because I knew you are bored , and second is beacuse you really noticed a REAL problem, the problem raised by you in OP is so small compared with others that we can say it doesn't exist.

PS1: I'm not mad on you because of your ubers, is not your fault MA is rewarding non depositors, is just a slap on the face to the others.
PS2:I'm mad on you when you try to be wise, and you try to explain me to use that fu@!#ing p5 pistol instead of XT because is more eco, and I'm more mad when I see you are right and MA take more from those who like to play 1-2h/day on high speed that playing 5-6h "opalo-ing".
PS3:Hope your release goes well, need to do one soon also

 

[sententz]

who said p5 is more eco then xt? sitram ? or combo?

 

[psychnosiz]

Don't care, don't loot anything enough above TT value to sell it on auction so imo the impact is only very positive => more people hunting certain mobs, pool of mob fills up and gives more return. I'd rather even see the complete TT+ economy crash instead of gradual introductions.

 

[AJack10600]

that's imperfect market conditions

I think in practice it would be too hard for MA to implement this slowly. Yes there is impact but as long as it does not jeopardise total balance, these are just spikes in the economical behavior.

 

[Agis]

XT is better than P5a anyday...

And it has to be the lucky non-depositers that whinge and whine - remember even in RL situations (events - natural disasters- bushfires - floods ie..war, famine etc) can effect the economy, in EU missions will effect a downturn slump for a while... remember you have to adapt to real life, means you have to adapt to this virtual economy as well

One word adapt , dont complain (if you actually invested alot into entropia you probably would have grounds to complain) ...ofc i complain sometimes, but its natural for people who put their hard earned money into the system.

 

[sitram]

You see, second post is much better that first one, of course because I knew you are bored , and second is beacuse you really noticed a REAL problem, the problem raised by you in OP is so small compared with others that we can say it doesn't exist.

Everyone already noticed this, what's the point in making another thread about this issue again?

PS2:I'm mad on you when you try to be wise, and you try to explain me to use that fu@!#ing p5 pistol instead of XT because is more eco, and I'm more mad when I see you are right and MA take more from those who like to play 1-2h/day on high speed that playing 5-6h "opalo-ing".

I never said use P5a instead of XT All I said back when I was in ROUA was to take care of markup looted versus markup payed if you don't want to have huge losses and for me this worked like a charm with p5a. That was my magical secret, nothing else. I'm sorry if I offended you in anyway

PS3:Hope your release goes well, need to do one soon also

Almost done mine. Gl with yours.

 

[GoNi]

Can´t care less, don´t sell when price is low.

 

[WoenK]

I really did not notice any considerable change in MU since the missions were implemented.
Hides had been a bit overpriced the past half year, I remember a year ago generic leather was slightly above 101%, metal ressidue is down to 106% from the spike of 113% it in September and muscle oils is strangely up at 105% form the 102% low a year ago.
It's allways an up-and-down.
Maybe MU went down, because there is a bigger playerbase than a year ago?
Individual globals on tracker at least makes you think that, was down at around 6000 one year ago.

 

[GeorgeSkywalker]

I don't think this can be avoided. By introducing somethign new obviously it will have an impact on the economy.

Trying to minimise this impact will have it's own problems and it's difficult to predict before hand how it will have an impact on the economy. It's just not worth the hassle.

Instead of 80 missions released all at once they could have released all the 100 mobs Iron missions and the other quests in first phase. After a month release the missions with 500 mobs. After another month the 1k missions and so on.

CP could have been introduced with a tax for auction when it was open.

When a new mob is introduced, in the first weeks they could make available just a small spawn over a larger area and gradually tweak it to suit the needs of the hunters and to not have a huge impact over the economy or ppl hunting habits.

This wouldn't really be a solution. Think about it, this will still mean we have thousands of colonists doing missions and the effect of this would be pretty much the same it was.

 

[sitram]

This wouldn't really be a solution. Think about it, this will still mean we have thousands of colonists doing missions and the effect of this would be pretty much the same it was.

I think the economy will slowly adapt to the presence of new quests(especially the Iron quests), which affect the supply of certain types of loot(like for example iron) if it had more time. Just 1 level for each player/month is not such a impact, compared to the option to do 100 then 500, 1k, 5k, and finally 10k mobs at once.

 

[JohnCapital]

For all of these events, some things go down and some go up.

When RT opened, I sold ME at high cost, because I knew folks needed to do TP runs and explore up there.

Also thanks to the merp misson, I can't remember the last time I sold explosive ammo at such high MU.

Sure when attackers were in the volcano area, sk-20s fell like rain and prices plummeted. So we're using them to skill with instead and when prices go back up we'll sell the rest.

You don't get to complain about part of the market dropping when the other parts are rising.

Take my recent thread. I questioned the lower MU in mining materials, but truth is I'm not complaining. The lower prices are good for my wife's crafting.

 

[sitram]

John, what I'm trying to say is that when quests were implemented, ppl simply stopped doing anything else but quests for a while. Do you think this is good or EU economy or not?

Of course things go back to normal after a while and ppl return to their normal babits, practicing different professions but during those periods markets are usualy extremly haotic.

 

[Kosh]

Its a small market, things are due to be volatile. Sometimes resource prices go up or down 10% in a day even with no VU, event or anything special going on.

When you put something in storage, you should always know there is a risk tomorrow it will have a different value (sometimes better and sometimes worse).

Many people try to make the most of these trends and events, its a vital part of the RCE.

 

[Ciobyna]

John, what I'm trying to say is that when quests were implemented, ppl simply stopped doing anything else but quests for a while. Do you think this is good or EU economy or not?

It does not matter.
As long as there is activity (any kind) is good for the general economy.

It's a different question if it's good for _your_ economy. It looks like you placed a bad bet. Get over it. It happens. IRL too.

Of course things go back to normal after a while and ppl return to their normal babits, practicing different professions but during those periods markets are usualy extremly haotic.

You don't see Nokia or Samsung or Sony shops whining that Apple just released their new whizbang iphone and the phone market is chaotic, no one is buying the product they sell. Instead they try to cut the losses by selling the products at a lower price. It happens the other way around too...

Ciobyna

 

[levithanikos]

Only one word in all those posts :

ADAPT!
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