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Impact of skills on professions

Immortal, your posts are simply not correct - there is a formula out there, even if it uses 3 different parts for the 3 skill ranges - what you say in your posts just blurs the facts:

Noone wo has the formula is willing to share it, not even with those who helped (a bit) in finding it.



Some of the major steps in the development of the formula were edited out from the thread, and my request long ago resulted in pretty much a "you can use the estimation, that's good enough for whatever you plan with it".

wizzszz said:
So, do we have a single formula now?
Or three different for different skill ranges?

Someone care to PM me the formula(s)?

The one given in post #3 is pretty useless, it doesn't even include the sine...
Click to expand...

While the ones developing are free to keep their own work for themselves, i find none of them "did it alone", and with all the help coming from various people, it should not be handled like the "biggest secret of the universe", and should be public domain.



You guys (you know who you are) are blocking the development of new skill related tools this way!
None of your tools covers ALL the needs, and you're (all of you) not exactly happy to cooperate with others who might have some useful additions to what you have developed so far...
 
Coop_ said:
Well, it's much higher order than what I've seen, and it's missing the sinusoidal component. It might work as a rough approximation, which is all we really have anyway.

Witte is the one you need to hear from, I'd guess.
Click to expand...

Is there an actual reason to think there IS a sinusoidal component and that the impression of there being one isn't created by the fact that we are shown only full points when watching chips in auction?
 
wizzszz said:
Immortal, your posts are simply not correct - there is a formula out there, even if it uses 3 different parts for the 3 skill ranges - what you say in your posts just blurs the facts:
Click to expand...
That's fair enough, my comments needed to be taken in strict context. The simple point I was trying to get across was this is what they think the formula would look like:

TT=A*sin(bx)*x+Ce^dx


but the reality:

TT=1+c x+x^2 (A b+c^2/2)+(c^3 x^3)/6+1/24 x^4 (c^4-4 A b^3)+(c^5 x^5)/120+1/720 x^6 (6 A b^5+c^6)+(c^7 x^7)/5040+(x^8 (c^8-8 A b^7))/40320+(c^9 x^9)/362880+(x^10 (10 A b^9+c^10))/3628800+(c^11 x^11)/39916800+O(x^12)

I guess my patience wore thin.


Wait until they learn how to deal with calculating skill TT over discontinuities for themselves, lol.
 
remontoire said:
Is there an actual reason to think there IS a sinusoidal component and that the impression of there being one isn't created by the fact that we are shown only full points when watching chips in auction?
Click to expand...

Yes, there is very good reason. The data was constructed from looking at those chips in auction. The period of the sinusoid covers over 200 levels.
 
Immortal said:
but the reality:

TT=1+c x+x^2 (A b+c^2/2)+(c^3 x^3)/6+1/24 x^4 (c^4-4 A b^3)+(c^5 x^5)/120+1/720 x^6 (6 A b^5+c^6)+(c^7 x^7)/5040+(x^8 (c^8-8 A b^7))/40320+(c^9 x^9)/362880+(x^10 (10 A b^9+c^10))/3628800+(c^11 x^11)/39916800+O(x^12)
Click to expand...

The reality seems even bit worse than this , since you have to use a diferent formula for every step of skill...But i dont care , its not me that do the math is the computeur...The formula can be 10 page long , have 200 "if" , and include a database of 500 parameter or variable ... i still dont care...I dont do it handy.

for exemple , id jdegre give me his code for the skill scaner in php , i am sure he have the whole formula as a function .. i would just need a copy paste of the function , and i am done with that part of my problem.I would even need to understand how it work.
 
remontoire said:
Is there an actual reason to think there IS a sinusoidal component and that the impression of there being one isn't created by the fact that we are shown only full points when watching chips in auction?
Click to expand...

I did separate research looking at how many points were gained per green message for skills in the 1-3000 range, and there was definitely a significant sinusoidal component with a period of 500 skillpoints.

When I started plotting all the chip data and analyzing the variances, I detected an additional sinusoidal component with a shorter period (100 points?), that I suspect might be related to the full points issue.
 
Hehe, i think nobody really thought it'd be an easy formula, and for sure not people playing for years and years - like Etopia.


I think we should start an new thread, collecting exact data from chips in auctions and changes from chipping, yada yada... (or share what we already have) and creating a map for it, preferably with 0.001 PEC (not PED, millipec, the ultimate atomic ingame value) TT ESI steps and interpolate the values in between.

Yes, i am aware this might be a never ending story, but this may be even better than what we have now, and the accuracy would increase with every little bit added... if people are interested, i can set up a web page where people can add data - this way we would end up with something that is available for everyone!
 
wizzszz said:
Hehe, i think nobody really thought it'd be an easy formula, and for sure not people playing for years and years - like Etopia.
Click to expand...
I didnt thought it was easy , but well anyway , i have working formula now.
just finished to build squeleton of my tool and put it on some server.I will make a thread for those who want to use it.

wizzszz said:
I think we should start an new thread, collecting exact data from chips in auctions and changes from chipping, yada yada... (or share what we already have) and creating a map for it, preferably with 0.001 PEC (not PED, millipec, the ultimate atomic ingame value) TT ESI steps and interpolate the values in between.
Click to expand...
its possible to know the Mpec from an item in auction ?

wizzszz said:
Yes, i am aware this might be a never ending story, but this may be even better than what we have now, and the accuracy would increase with every little bit added... if people are interested, i can set up a web page where people can add data - this way we would end up with something that is available for everyone!
Click to expand...

Well go for it and we will see.i sure there is still some mathematic people out there that will love to work on it.
Afterall we still havent craked the ESI<=>skill system.
 
Etopia said:
its possible to know the Mpec from an item in auction ?
Click to expand...

You can have very exact values when you calculate it from the markup percentage.

I provided a couple of such values in the original formula thread.

Etopia said:
i have working formula now.
Click to expand...

I reckon someone sent it to you? Did it come with the constraint to not share it?

Coop_ said:
Maybe something like this thread:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/skills/188672-improve-accuracy-skill-calculators.html
Click to expand...

Indeed, i must've missed that thread, thx for the link :)
 
I'm just out at Nea's playing with my Synch chip, and got a telepathy gain ..

As that's the first one of those I've got since MF was reintroduced, and there doesn't seem a lot of information on the Telepath profession yet, I thought I'd mention here.

Pic of change in skills from one skill gain with Synchronization Chip XIV

(no idea why it squashes the pic like that, for the full pic see the gallery)

Telepathy profession changed from: 8.9974 to 8.9989 on that single skill gain.
 
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Courage contributes to Spacecraft Crew Profession
 
Very nice data you been collecting!
 
Spacecraft Crew skills confirmed:
. Courage
. Perception

(btw, it definately doesnt include: anatomy, evade, analysis, or scan human)
 
Aim also contribute to Spacecraft Crew

(dodge, dexterity, laser weapon tech, psyche, vehicle repair, vehicle tech - do not contribute)
 
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i have received from a very high skilled ava (i leave it to himself to disclose who is he :p) the following breakdown for the spacecraft crew prof.:

- courage: 15%
- aim: 17%
- serendipity: 17%
- inflict ranged damage: 17%
- perception: 17%
- computer: 17%

i know, i know... it seems to be the weirdest distribution of skills ever! :laugh: but, it matches 100% my current level (~40.xx), and also the level of the reporting ava, and many of his soc mates.

chazlow, how did you come to the conclusion that engineering and mechanics contribute to the profession?

also, to everyone... do this breakdown match your profession level? (i have entered those values into the optimizer, so you can check it out very easily)


on a separate note... geology contributes to treasure hunter (a soc mate was on treasure hunter level xx.99, he got a single geology gain, and triggered the level up to level xx+1)
 
spacecraft crew seem exact for me 38.28 calculated, 38.2876 in game
 
Mistakes while acquiring multiple skills gains and ruling out the wrong ones. At the time Inflicted range damage didnt appear to raise my prof level so I mistakenly ruled it out.

I'll edit the above posts and had already removed them from entropedia yesterday as i noticed an inconsistency.

Thanks for clearing it up - i also get the professional level to within 0.02 % using your formula.
 
jdegre said:
also, to everyone... do this breakdown match your profession level? (i have entered those values into the optimizer, so you can check it out very easily)
Click to expand...

Mine matches exactly. :thumbup:
 
Getting the formula before the profession does anything is an impressive feat :laugh:

Good work guys :)
 
Oleg said:
Getting the formula before the profession does anything is an impressive feat :laugh:

Good work guys :)
Click to expand...

it is impressive, indeed :yup:

as commented before, this time i did not even have to tamper with skill data sets or anything.. they gave me directly the full skill breakdown so i don't even know how they did it...
 
It looks like laser weapons technology contributes to technology investigator, as I seem to have got a level from a lwt gain.
 
Okay so I just figured out that courage contributes to "spacecraft engineering". I got a skill gain in courage and it put me to +1 level in spacecraft engineering. I've updated the wiki site to reflect this :) Unfortunately, I was unable to capture as screen shot of this as I was out hunting and didn't look to see what had skilled up until after the fact. I noted what skill gain triggered me "popping the green star" on my message though so I know FOR SURE it was courage. :)

~Danimal
 
remontoire said:
It looks like laser weapons technology contributes to technology investigator, as I seem to have got a level from a lwt gain.
Click to expand...

Are you sure you didn't get a Perception gain at the same time? All of my skill gains have been in the normal scanning-related skills.
 
Oleg said:
Are you sure you didn't get a Perception gain at the same time? All of my skill gains have been in the normal scanning-related skills.
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I confirm that with scaning car you dont get LWT.
But sometimes it cud be that another skill contribute.
Example is pre VU10 mind force where skills like aim and kill strike helped and you newer gain those by using MF.
 
Dan59 said:
I confirm that with scaning car you dont get LWT.
But sometimes it cud be that another skill contribute.
Example is pre VU10 mind force where skills like aim and kill strike helped and you newer gain those by using MF.
Click to expand...

That's not how it works. Contributing skills and gained skills are always the same.

It feels wrong to tell you about skilling but that's how it is :laugh:
 
Oleg said:
That's not how it works. Contributing skills and gained skills are always the same.

It feels wrong to tell you about skilling but that's how it is :laugh:
Click to expand...

I wish too but i lost 17 lvls elec damage on MF after change.

*Anyone remember what contributed big and was newer gained with MF healing ?
 
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