Is MA doing enough to promote Entropia?

[THANATOS]

I have been playing this game for a few months now. I have been depositing $20 a month as my budget and have progressed nicely. I genuinely believe the game is worth my “subscription” of $20 for the amount of enjoyment I get from it.
However, there is a major flaw I have discovered with this game; It is supposed to based on a real economy (the main selling point of the game). It is possible (not likely, but possible) to make a profit from playing, just like real life. However, one of the main features of a real economy is growth. Any government offers incentives for people to have children, as they know when the child reaches adulthood they (hopefully) will contributed to the economy. These incentives are things like statutory maternity pay, child allowance etc etc… To make the cost of having a child easier to bear. The government obviously get this money back as the child turns to adulthood gets a job and starts paying taxes etc..

Where is the growth in this game? Ok, so our Avatars cant start having kids (although that would be interesting!!) all we have is new starters downloading who start playing regularly, but what got me started down this line of thought was when I saw this article (below) about the MMORPG Warcraft.

Blizzard's stunning MMORPG (massively multiplayer online role-playing game) has swept all before it, breaking various genre records and notching up more than 5.5 million regular players in the process.
It has been a meteoric rise for a game that was expected to do well, but arguably not this well.
"It's pretty surprising to us," said the game's lead producer, Shane Dabiri.
"I don't think there was ever a time when we said we'll make five million subscribers after one year of being live." Full article HERE: BBC NEWS

5.5 million new players in one year? That’s over 15,000 new players a day! When was the last time you saw Port Atlantis this busy?

What’s the difference? Why are we not seeing this level of new blood into the game? I think its one simple fact – advertising. MA never seem to push the game.. how many times have you heard about other MMORPGs compared to Entropia… I am willing to bet at the bottom of this thread there is an advert to the “first flying MMORPG” I see that one all the time!

So why do we need this number of players? Well, my understanding is that Entropia has around 350,000 players, of which only a fraction of that figure actually play it any more. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong… If the player base increases, so do MA profits which may lead to bigger loots… but more importantly, the value of our investments goes up too. If you have an apartment now, its not worth much, but if demand outstrips supply then the value increases. Same thing with armour and weapons etc etc. Also, what about the advertising system MA plan to bring in? Realistically how much money can they make when the audience is about 20,000 people worldwide? I certainly wouldn’t bother advertising with them, but 5.5 million worldwide? That would be worth it…
So, to get to the point, I am interested to hear peoples ideas about how to increase the player base… maybe Marco will read this and take on some of the ideas…

My idea: Set up a referral system; If you refer a friend to this game once they have clocked up $100 of deposits you get a 100 ped “bounty”… easy to set up, just add a “referred by” box in the user details when the new person sets up their account they type in your avatar name...

Anyone do any better?

 

[safara]

5.5 million new players in one year? That’s over 15,000 new players a day! When was the last time you saw Port Atlantis this busy?

Nice thoughts Thanatos, but there is a HUGE Lag issue to sort out first

I would love to see this game/project populated with millions of active players, but I suspect the map would have to get a whole lot bigger to accommodate us all, and a lot more hardware/servers etc invested in by MA first.

But MA gotta be thinking along these lines anyway, I am sure they dont want to have only 10-50 000 active players (just a guess) for the next 10 years.

 

[Badger]

atm its unviable, servers still have lag. Quite simply PE could not handle the amount of players your talking about.

 

[Aveena]

Is there anyone that knows how many active players Entropia has?

 

[AkiranBlade]

I don't think MA would be able to handle a large growth rate at the moment as the current level of high usage players are causing too mcuh server lag and load already.

There are also more issues that really need correcting before another influx drive is down, and that's sort out the graphics side of things so that:

a) It doesn't lag soo much due to the engines inefficient workings
b) It's more stable and not prone to locking up


The last news item about ND's purchase of CND saw a huge influx of new players but it also proved that the software, hardware and comms are not seriously up to the job.

There are a whole bunch things that can be done to improve various things which wouldn't need engine redesign. I had suggested to MA that they make a trader style shopkeeper that can buy AND sell which means less players sat at Twin and Port Atlantis lagging up the client and also spamming the local chat making it really difficult for new players to read any information or answers to their questions. To a non-MMORPG player these things would simply cause you to press escape, Press Start, Control Panel, Add Remove Programs, Select Project Entropia and click Remove.

I know this is the case for a fact as some of my FPS friends did exactly that.

 

[Status]

I think they will tread lightly.

For one too lage of a sudden increase in players can have a big effect, that may not be so good. Remember, look at the effect from the CND hype.

And two, I dont think thatMA is ready and "there" technologicaly speaking

My 2 pec

 

[Titus Wolf]

ill have to agree with the others on the lag issue. and, although its obvious that more players means more money for MA through decay, that does not neccesarily mean more money for the players. they still have to divy up the loot pool with whatever secret little formula they have to try and make all the players happy. more players, more divying the proportional amount of money they deposit. plus, i can hardly stand the lag as it is. i hear constant complaints from my soc mates of 50% or more misses because of lag. there is going to be a breaking point to where MA is gonna have to say, ok, we have to upgrade these servers if we want more players... maybe they thought ND was gonna take the load off of eudoria and that they could handle an influx of players through that channel. well, all i can say is, ND is a ghost town. BUT, i have almost NO lag issues there. its nice

 

[Status]

To a non-MMORPG player these things would simply cause you to press escape, Press Start, Control Panel, Add Remove Programs, Select Project Entropia and click Remove.

I know this is the case for a fact as some of my FPS friends did exactly that.

Good point. I had one or two friends loose their patientce with this game. As gryffon said once that this game is not only for "gamers" but unfortunatly it is geared twords them. All gamers I know want Fast and Cutting edge So either way this game will not have a hudge draw the way a monthly sub will ATM

 

[Dwarfchucker]

Hmmm. And if MA have to invest in improving the infrastructure, buying more servers etc, that would obviously cost money, which might lead to the loot pools actually decreasing !?

 

[THANATOS]

Hmmm. And if MA have to invest in improving the infrastructure, buying more servers etc, that would obviously cost money, which might lead to the loot pools actually decreasing !?

Surely more player = more money coming in = more mney to spend on upgrading their Pentium 2's with MMX technology!


I can see everyones point on the LAG and server speed, but what I am discussing here is a gradual way of increasing the number of players, so we dont end up with what happened with the CND news causing a new player influx (which I was one of btw... )

 

[Vedder]

THANATOS:
I think MA is doing what they can to attract new players but using making-headlines and mouth-to-mouth as primary means.

You referal-bonus idea, is great imo... Maybe MA will like it too

(Only problem is that, whenever I need to deposit 100USD, I'd get 1100 peds if I make a new avater and make the deposits through that one... Hmm... Maybe the idea needs a bit of polishing, but I like it anyway)

EDIT: Yeah... I agree too, that lag should not be a concern in the long run, as MA will keep upgrading servers continously as more ppl joins, and PCs will increase performance too.

 

[Dwarfchucker]

Surely more player = more money coming in = more mney to spend on upgrading their Pentium 2's with MMX technology!


I can see everyones point on the LAG and server speed, but what I am discussing here is a gradual way of increasing the number of players, so we dont end up with what happened with the CND news causing a new player influx (which I was one of btw... )

Ah, but advertising would lead to a steady stream of new players, ideally. This would mean a continual expansion of the infrastructure etc. and no guarantee that the new folk would deposit enough. Lets face it, they could all decide not to deposit, and all swarm the oilrig!

 

[Dwarfchucker]

THANATOS:
I think MA is doing what they can to attract new players but using making-headlines and mouth-to-mouth as primary means.

You referal-bonus idea, is great imo... Maybe MA will like it too

(Only problem is that, whenever I need to deposit 100USD, I'd get 1100 peds if I make a new avater and make the deposits through that one... Hmm... Maybe the idea needs a bit of polishing, but I like it anyway)

EDIT: Yeah... I agree too, that lag should not be a concern in the long run, as MA will keep upgrading servers continously as more ppl joins, and PCs will increase performance too.

I have an idea! Maybe if you refer someone, you get a percentage of their loots. And if they refer someone, you get a split a percentage of that persons loots between you, and so on, and so on. And then eventually, you flee the country with all the cash, just before the police arrive....

 

[Titus Wolf]

well, advertising is all well and good, but i dont think that will give them enough money to do upgrades. increase the loot pool, yes. like someone said earlier, maybe 20-50,000 people active playing in the game. someone could advertise on ONE local radio or tv station and hit that many people. why go to a video game? they are going to have to do like other businesses do, find investors that will invest the millions needed for upgrades. once the infrastructure is in place, a massive adv. campaign to attract the new players.. NOT touting it as a way to make virtual/real money, but for all the other unique qualities that the game has. things like $20 a month can let you mine hunt craft and explore the huge virtual universe, visit space, fight 100 different mobs.. things of that nature ( i know, $20 usd is piddly) but, once they are hooked on the idea of $20 a month, and on the game, larger amounts wont be too hard to swallow. how many people have been asked by a newb, "how do i make money in this game?". a false idea put in to the newb by MA. and, one i think hurts more than helps. MA cant promote until they fix. and right now, i dont hear about much fixing going on. if a massive hardware upgrade were going to occurr in the near future, wouldnt you tell all the players? people are getting out every day, id be screaming it.

 

[Zawath]

In WOW servers only support couple thousand people so they need dozens of them. In Entropia there's only one world so it would be impossible to fit millions of players there.

 

[wanda]

One important thing to remember is that wow may have had 5.5 million subscribers, but at least 3 million of them are idiotic assholes aged 16 and under.

The more popular something is the more people it will attract and in turn the more idiots it will attract.

question is, would anyone who plays PE really want to see that?

If Marco thought he had it bad because of the landgrab, imagine what it would be like with a few thousand players on his back instead of the 20 or so that complained this time.

 

[Titus Wolf]

zawath, there are multiple servers in this game as well. youve never had the message "the server your avatar was logged in to is unavailable" message? plus, you can run in to certain areas of amathera and get a similar message. nad, if you look at the log in screen, youll see the servers availability.

 

[Olaven]

One important thing to remember is that wow may have had 5.5 million subscribers, but at least 3 million of them are idiotic assholes aged 16 and under.

I think you interpret that wrong, there are offcourse more younger people but not 3 millions assholes. The 2,5 million would quit in that case.

 

[CycoKick]

pff, lag lag is outdated, I dont fear lag no more

but i got a 54 mbit connection and a new pc 3,2ghertz and gf6600 to use it on

 

[dbelinfante]

Is there some kind of algorithm for calculating both the percentage and absolute number of idiotic assholes, both adolescent and adult?

 

[WedgeGold]

One of the issues with Marketing this product is the complexity of it. I tried to get one of my family members, who is pretty good gamer on PC with 1st person shooters, adventure games... etc, to play.

But he had to "research" it first and I pointed him here. It was too complex and I guess that he read that it was hard to make money. Not surprising for someone who was out on disability because he did not want to work. There is also a whole long story, but I will not get into that. I should have told him it was a lot like poker.

It is ashame because I really would like someone I know to play the game.

I am trying to work on someone else, but they never have time.

 

[Titus Wolf]

well, both games obviously have their appeal. ive known people that left here and went there... i havent seen them since. however, ive looked at it and it appears to be much more complex in how the players excel and use equipment, spells, etc... it looked rather cartoonish to me and very busy. entropia is more "realistic" and thus appeals to the more mature and grown up audience i think others have been talking about. you DO rarely find kinds in this game. most are young adults. i think the youngest member of my soc is about 20, and we go up to 52 i believe. anyway, i am guessing the growth has been what MA is wanting or they would advertise more. i dont think they can handle a huge influx of players, and i think they know that.

 

[d'Angelo]

370.000+ unique users have visited Entropia, and some stayed (and got addicted) .

If the percentage stayers increases PE would have a steady flow of new users because the more users the more mouth-to-mouth advertising (websites, reviews, etc).

Why do the most of the visitors leave Entropia?

I think that starting and understanding the game is a bit to hard. When MA finds a way to make the begin easier, more users would stay.

MA must know this because I am not smart so I presume that the near future VU's will make starting the game more easy... What do you think?

 

[y2ksw]

I am pretty sure MA would like to have more players, but cannot move too quick in that direction because of lag.

The lag is caused by an excessive data exchange between a client and server, and it is mainly a design question.

MA decided to handle almost all data from their servers, most probably because they want to produce a huge quantity of heat to keep their offices comfortable, and test when the CPU's burn out

While it is technically possible to reduce the data exchange to a minimum, it may be necessary to redesign the duties of server and client software, which is never a slow process, and almost always a sinonyme to rewrite all code from scratch, unless some clever head invents something spectacular.

But this won't happen very soon since MA keeps the secrets of PE locked in a safe, and doesn't even show a little interest to the potential external co-workers who are present all over the forum, most of them highly qualified.

If I should reply strictly to the headline, Does MA enough to promote PE, the reply is a strict: No. Most of the time gamers are happy, but should they become unhappy, they become furious. And when they become that angry, they destroy the image of MA.

The main problem is not the promotion itself, the game would promote on it's own, if MA would refund (quickly) errors which involve real money and bound ingame bugs, thus if they would show to assume some responsibility towards their paying sponsors and beta-testers, us. It is commonly the best pubblicity to keep the customer happy, and as long as they are, they promote the game.

Personally, I am pretty unhappy and don't promote at all, while it has been different in the past. All friends I have involved to join, have quitted, because of the same problems I suffer from, so I can't tell it was only me.

Nevertheless I continue to play, because I hope one day they will move accordingly, but I stopped depositing to give it a sign, probably the only one they fully understand

 

[Lighterthief]

well a real interesting point marketing and promotion

i personaly disagree strongly with the official line of its a "free to play"
i think this is a problem, its misleading
i think if it was marketed using the phrase "no monthly fees" i think it could help some of the problems we have when new players realise after 2-3 weeks that they will have to make thier millions elsewhere lol

but MA is not a Blizzard or a Sony, so those comparisons are unfair

one of the major factors that can cripple a small business is rapid expansion

or "growing pains"

if a mass number of players arrived tomorrow, could the hardware cope? would the support be able to cope, would the service we have be damaged as a side effect?
these are all valid things to look at when a company is expanding

but also as a medium sized company, it is not practical to invest in hardware to support x million users, if they dont know whether thay can meet the demand. I hope you can see that this can be a tircky situation for a company

there are scores of companies i could use as examples that have had huge problems when "growing" into large companies

some other posters have taken "promotion" to mean customer service, i disagree with that, in my eyes promotion is marketing and advertising

MA has a very unique way of advertising, and it s avery clever way too

no ads in papaers, no boxes in games shops
but every year orso theres a MASSIVE investemnt oportunity, and this is picked up on by the media

how many ppl here joined because they heard pe was cool, and how many joined after they saw news stories of Deamscape/TI/CND ?
it is a very effective way of marketing imo

if MA would refund (quickly) errors which involve real money and bound ingame bugs, thus if they would show to assume some responsibility towards their paying sponsors and beta-testers, us. It is commonly the best pubblicity to keep the customer happy, and as long as they are, they promote the game.

i agree a happy customer is a great way to promote the game too

but we need to look further than the "make us happy" routine

a happy customer is absolutly nothing compared to the marketing power of "$100,000 spacestation sold" on the bbc etc

i believe that the promotion of MA is fine, well it got all us here so far

but what is MUCH MUCH more important, is knowing that the systems can cope should a infux of players arrive

rapid expansion is not always a good thing in the corporate worlds

 

[THANATOS]

Thanks for all the comments so far...

A couple of things to clear up... My intention was never to have a massive influx of players as we all know MA are not in the position to be able to cope with this. I do think however they could try and increase the numbers they currently get without it affecting lag too badley. For example they could target users in countries where the time difference means that their peak usage time is Entropias "quiet time" - I always notice playing in the morning (9am GMT) is pretty quiet as the americans are all asleep and the europe is on its way to work.

anyway, i am guessing the growth has been what MA is wanting or they would advertise more. i dont think they can handle a huge influx of players, and i think they know that.

I disagree with this - if you turned to MA and said here, I have 5 million players for you, they would grab them as fast as they could. How do i know this? Simple, if MA gave a rats arse about lag and all the other issues we all read in the forums (bugs et all...) they would have fixed them before adding additional features to the game. They do however care about money.


Last point - just an observation, but seeing as everyone keeps bringing up the lag issue. Does it not annoy you when lag starts and about 30 people all say "wow its laggy here" - look at MB's birthday bash at Deathifiers house - how many times did you see someone mention lag in the chat window. - We all know its laggy, so why contribute to it will mindless chat?

 

[Titus Wolf]

and i disagree with you. there is no way MA would take those 5 million players right now. look at the firestorm that erupted after the LG.. no, they wouldnt shoot themsleves in their virtual foot. taking on a huge amount of players would simply overtax and already taxed system. and.. there are plenty of people, depositors mind you, that are right on the edge of whether or not to stay in the game. i think they are not only happy with the numbers now, i think they are worried about a huge influx of players to the game. at least on eudoria. ND is another matter.

 

[AkiranBlade]

I disagree with this - if you turned to MA and said here, I have 5 million players for you, they would grab them as fast as they could. How do i know this? Simple, if MA gave a rats arse about lag and all the other issues we all read in the forums (bugs et all...) they would have fixed them before adding additional features to the game. They do however care about money.

While you maybe right, I think perhaps this isn't the case. Why? Because before the advertisement, there were significantly less players in game than there are now.

The news items, I'm assuming, led to MA seeing the biggest influx they have ever seen, which has highlighted the issues with large growth to them. As any good business should do, they should be striving to rectify those issues. I'm pretty sure they can't be stupid enough to ignore this warning shot across the bows and then watch PE crumble due to the numbers playing, and see a large section of them dissappear rapidly due to 'unbearable technical issues.'

This is a risky strategy if they choose to do nothing. Quite quickly people can just stop playing, and it may be quite surprising in how large a number they do. Don't get me wrong, I'm saying this is what will happen, it's a possible outcome.

Possible scenario:

Large numbers of new players leave, leaving no steady influx of $$$.
Midlevel and higher level players can't sell their stuff so easily.
This then causes tt fodder behaviour.
Due to all things being tt'd, profit margins for ubers start to disappear.


I don't want to see this happen, but without the required stability, it makes it a more dangerously real possible outcome.

I'm making the assumption that they are working on the stability, putting my faith into MA as it were (as I have no faith in looting anything good at the moment :/).

I hope it works out. I really enjoy playing and want to continue, but the next time I meet Legion in PvP and aim accurately (on my screen) at him, I'd like my shot to actually register Just kidding Legion

 

[THANATOS]

and i disagree with you. there is no way MA would take those 5 million players right now. look at the firestorm that erupted after the LG.. no, they wouldnt shoot themsleves in their virtual foot. taking on a huge amount of players would simply overtax and already taxed system. and.. there are plenty of people, depositors mind you, that are right on the edge of whether or not to stay in the game. i think they are not only happy with the numbers now, i think they are worried about a huge influx of players to the game. at least on eudoria. ND is another matter.

Its a fair point you make, but what i said was supposed to come across with sarcasm - it was a dig at MAs general attitude to its players views and its lack of effort when it comes to fixing anything other than ways to make them more money... But i can see how you took it as a serious point - written sarcasm doesnt work!


Does anyone think a simple instructions file downloaded with the program might make new users stick it out a bit more?

 

[Red]

advertising

I think PE needs a different kind of advertising - in game advertising. That is- sell advertising in the game to companies. I know it's been talked about, and it would be great, an extra revenue stream for MA to upgrade their servers (to handle more players) and give us more LOOT. As a side effect, it will mean an influx of players too, as something like that is surely to make the news.