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It is a shame MA...

sbi

sbi

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Joined
Feb 21, 2005
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Sbinortz Sbi Latz'tek
... that you not value your customers investments in EU.

The important issue regarding the change to hangars is not about ticket prices etc. It's about players being able to (or not) make investments in EU based on the current system and the possibilities at hand.

The change to hangars clearly states that players are NOT able to make plans in EU based on how the system works and make investments accordingly... 'Renting was a bug'? Yeah right, if so it was a bug that has been know for several years without MA giving any official statements about it and thus giving fair notice to the players who based their investments on this feature.

I am disapointed MA and worried. This goes far beyond hangars. This puts all investments in EU in a bad light. What will you change tomorrow? How can we, the players, ever trust in the system, if you change the basic features of items etc.

Sbi
 
I have to be the one that says it: "EU is dynamic" :mad::mad:

And yes i'm with you this is not the way to treat customerst if you want them to trust your system and invest in it
 
onyx oZ Zombie said:
and yet, people continue to do so ... wonder why MA doesn't mind making changes? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

They probably think the Chinese will save them :rolleyes:. MA seems to love changing things around this year. Well, some people have to get screwed every VU, it may as well be the hangar owners this time around :).
 
Im sorry but... What is this about?

I don't know a lot about hangers, please enlighten me, what have the changed, so that your bussiness is ruined?

Val
 
The pilots wanted to be a cartel? Fine.
They wanted to block the door, smacktalk, make life harder for others who did not play along with them? Fine.
They made us pay 25 ped every time we flew with them? Fine.
They want the community to stand behind them when MA makes a change that hurts them? HELL NO!
 
sbi said:
... that you not value your customers investments in EU.

The important issue regarding the change to hangars is not about ticket prices etc. It's about players being able to (or not) make investments in EU based on the current system and the possibilities at hand.

The change to hangars clearly states that players are NOT able to make plans in EU based on how the system works and make investments accordingly... 'Renting was a bug'? Yeah right, if so it was a bug that has been know for several years without MA giving any official statements about it and thus giving fair notice to the players who based their investments on this feature.

I am disapointed MA and worried. This goes far beyond hangars. This puts all investments in EU in a bad light. What will you change tomorrow? How can we, the players, ever trust in the system, if you change the basic features of items etc.

Sbi
Click to expand...

Sbi - you have been around long enough to know better. Things are not bugs UNTIL MA says they are bugs. Then they get fixed on MA's timeline.

This should be no surprise. Why? Because I remember the Axe 1x0 change, the radar change, the running speed change, the aggro range change. I remember players buying houses only to see apartments added. I remember Deathifier buying TI only to see CND added, I remember....
 
nvcK said:
The pilots wanted to be a cartel? Fine.
They wanted to block the door, smacktalk, make life harder for others who did not play along with them? Fine.
They made us pay 25 ped every time we flew with them? Fine.
They want the community to stand behind them when MA makes a change that hurts them? HELL NO!
Click to expand...

You generalise too much, who says all pilots are like this?
 
nvcK said:
The pilots wanted to be a cartel? Fine.
They wanted to block the door, smacktalk, make life harder for others who did not play along with them? Fine.
They made us pay 25 ped every time we flew with them? Fine.
They want the community to stand behind them when MA makes a change that hurts them? HELL NO!
Click to expand...

There is a large difference between Pilots and hangar owners before since not all pilots owned the hangars. I predict the flying situation will be even worse now.
 
sbi said:
I am disapointed MA and worried. This goes far beyond hangars. This puts all investments in EU in a bad light. What will you change tomorrow?
Click to expand...

maybe they'll change amps. or introduce easliy maxed weapons and other eqiuipment. perhaps they'll introduce shops to compete with the booths, then malls to compete with the shops. or they might implement whole new armour piece.

who knows. like real life, you cannot take an investment without a risk. there is no inherent risks in a virtual world, so i reckon this is MA way of adding an element of uncertainty.
 
burnsey said:
There is a large difference between Pilots and hangar owners before since not all pilots owned the hangars. I predict the flying situation will be even worse now.
Click to expand...

Can't agree more. Less pilots means higher prices... and harder to find a pilot at non-peak times.

It's really sad to see how MA treat their customers (and not only in this particular case), changing things at a slightest whim, and withough any prior notice..
 
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burnsey said:
There is a large difference between Pilots and hangar owners before since not all pilots owned the hangars. I predict the flying situation will be even worse now.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree with that. I dont expect the hangar price to go down because of this "bugfix" though. There are several planets coming up next year and spaceships are expected to be the only mean of transport between them. Do you think a deflation is realistic in this situation? Sure, there will probably be less pilots on duty so it might get a little crowded on peak evenings but the actual hangar owners who use them instead of just sitting on the deed will profit from this.
 
Every single VU someone states that their investment just went tits up. Why do people feel like theirs is safe in the first place? You have to know this place is dynamic. You just have to.
 
I am not a regular flyer at all, so this don't really affect me directly in the slightest.

From an outsiders point of view I tend to agree that people with hangars should use their hangars, otherwise they sit idle. So, you have a hangar for our own personal/soc use, or you have a hangar to use as a business and fly others in your ship for a fee.

I don't see the problem. Other than for those that were utilising a flaw in the system enabling someone to use something that did not belong to them.

The pilot market will adjust. Those who fly regular will already have a bunch of proper hangar owners on the FL. Those who don't will just not fly if the price/availability is detrimental.

People like ND will have to get sorted out with a proper service to get people to his rock. And CP may be a bit quieter, which is a good thing.

Dunno, just speculating.....
 
It was obvious it was not intended for them to be "rented".
 
To the OP: Did you not click 'I Agree' to the EULA? It mentions something about MindArk being basically able to change anything at any time...

I'm sure there's something in the EF rules about directing things at MA like this :scratch2:

- Nightwolf
 
Changes are probably due to the comming co-ownership? If so, way more
can be pilots for same ship. Just a guess thou'... ;)
 
MA should make things as flexible for players as possible allowing players to be creative in there in game job creations if there is no flexibility then how can new jobs be created by in game players..

I am not a hanger owner but why take this so called bug away.. there should be a renting system but unless Ma benefits (such as a charge/tax) they see this as a bug.
 
I noticed that now pilots can land at any hanger they own? I take it before a ship when returning planet side could only return to the hanger it came from. So what happens to the ship already in the other hanger you can now fly to? Sounds like they have detached ships from hangers. This sounds like a move towards players owning ships seperatly from hangers. Might watch for a time when hangers no longer come with ships.

I heard talk about vehicles planed? maybe they are thinking of adding player crafted vehicles and ships and owning a hanger just provides you with a planet side place to land/park ships. Just a guess.

The update info also said something about the hanger could not be set to restricked. If you own the hanger, you should be able to land there. maybe there will latter be a way to make hangers so owners could rent out landing/parking/storage space for ship owners who don't own a hanger. Kind of like malls and such renting out shop space.
 
I would appreciate if a hanger owner could explain how their hanger works now. I don't get how you can land at a hanger if there is already a ship there.

EDIT: Also, in the VU notes it states that a hanger must be unrestricted in order to operate the ship. What is the difference between restricted and unrestricted? Does restricted keep other avatars out?
 
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From my expirience over the years:

Hangar owners flown for 15 PED because they wanted to get to CND fast and yet not to pay for they trips, which is IMO the point in paying 15k PED for the hangar - not having to wait and pay $$ to get to CND.

Lease pilots charged 25 peds (some without a possibility to even discuss the price) - because they needed the cash for the rent.

Therefore - I dont mind NOT PAYING additional 10 ped to the hangar owners :laugh:

There have been 4-5 pilots both on CND and Twin almost all the time... therefore I dont think there will be no pilots. The hangar owners will now have a dormant piece of "realestate" that can change anytime (as it did now). Or theyll sell it for price that doesnt involve raising second mortgage to buy.

Let me :poke: a little bit more:

Imagine MA implements jubmojet spacebuses for travel to "other planets" :D and decide those need real tickets. And put current hangars only as "fighter support crafts" who can shoot off other enemy spacecraftes just like mobs :laugh:

I.
 
NevadaJake said:
I would appreciate if a hanger owner could explain how their hanger works now. I don't get how you can land at a hanger if there is already a ship there.

EDIT: Also, in the VU notes it states that a hanger must be unrestricted in order to operate the ship. What is the difference between restricted and unrestricted? Does restricted keep other avatars out?
Click to expand...

I am not a hangar owner, but I own some other estates.

If you set access to restriced noone can use or pickup items in that estate, f.e. at shop the items in can´t be bought/sold nor picked up by anybody!
Restricted access is necessary to trade the dead.
You can´t trade a deed without setting access to restricted, and you can´t place any deed at auction without restricted access.
 
Can't express my joy. Finally all those low life pilots/resellers/laggers and whatnot will go back to sweating camps.

I am convinced there will always be place for decent and honorable hanger owners which pilot their own ships.
 
Igorl said:
From my expirience over the years:

Hangar owners flown for 15 PED because they wanted to get to CND fast and yet not to pay for they trips, which is IMO the point in paying 15k PED for the hangar - not having to wait and pay $$ to get to CND.

Lease pilots charged 25 peds (some without a possibility to even discuss the price) - because they needed the cash for the rent.

Therefore - I dont mind NOT PAYING additional 10 ped to the hangar owners :laugh:

There have been 4-5 pilots both on CND and Twin almost all the time... therefore I dont think there will be no pilots. The hangar owners will now have a dormant piece of "realestate" that can change anytime (as it did now). Or theyll sell it for price that doesnt involve raising second mortgage to buy.

Let me :poke: a little bit more:

Imagine MA implements jubmojet spacebuses for travel to "other planets" :D and decide those need real tickets. And put current hangars only as "fighter support crafts" who can shoot off other enemy spacecraftes just like mobs :laugh:

I.
Click to expand...

Let me remind you of your history. Flight prices were increased to 25 ped not because of renters needing to make rent. It was increased due to pilots all becoming stuck on CND and not being able to fly back to Calypso without losing money. The 25 ped per ticket price allowed for that buffer where a pilot could return empty and still make profit.
 
This is not a thread about ticket prices. Its about something far more important - us being able to trust in the system as we experience it and base our actions accordingly. There are plenty of other treads discussing prices of ticekts etc.

Sbi
 
Just a reminder to all...

"When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out."

I could take artistic license and convert it to the present situation in EU but I think everyone can understand what I'm getting at. If you do not stand up for each other, who will stand up for you? BTW, are you all still enjoying your notes?
 
I was expecting it to come somedays, according to MA it's a bug fix, there was no problem untill some cry baby complained in the forum, made some BS thread about ticket price, an imaginary pilot cartel who rules the business, estate dead which shouldn't be given out aka rented...
So now feel the pain in your ass dear customers, i trully hope that this so called cartel will double their price as a goddamn punishment for your whinning (reason: can't rent it out anymore and have to earn the ped on his own now) !

As for hangar owner, i'm sorry to hear that your business is ruined, but you can still rent it, give away the dead lol, if not whilling to then pilot yourself or sell it, MA owns everything, no matter what you say, they have the final word !

stupid whinner i hope you'll learn your leason, i really need to talk with all these pilot :)
 
With the respect that both Sbi and Burnsey gets from me (Which is actualy a great deal) I have to disagree with the both of you.

Sbi - It was stated some time ago that the hangars was not intended to be rented out as they were. If ppl had thought a little about it they would know MA well enough to know that it WOULD be changed at some time in the future... Considering the ppl who has made a great ppl of money (2k ped/month per hangar on average) they shall just be happy the change wasn't made sooner.

Burnsey - I do not think the prices or the service will be worse now that there will be less pilots, I actualy think it will get better... Pilots who own the hangar themself will be more interested in making a long term commitment and work up a steady clientel by offering discount on returning clients, offering great service etc.
Also, the prices will most likely drop a little since less pilots means less time to fill up your ship, both on planet side and on CND...


I actualy looked forward to when MA would change this - And honestly I do not feel the least bit sorry for the ppl who invested in hangars with the only reason to rent them out.

Sorry for sounding a bit harsh - But for once it shows that not all high end investments are guarenteed money-makers, just like RL...
 
Noticed Marco was reading this thread as well - You are allowed to comment Marco, we wont bite :yay:
 
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