Question: Jack of all trades???

[Ragewalker]

Is it possible to be a "Jack of all trades" in this game and be effecitve?
If so what is the best way to go about it?

Or do you have to select a specific profession for example crafter, miner, hunter, ect.?
Thanks!

 

[narfi]

There are alot of variables, but personality and budget control most of what you do here.

I played for 6 months not depositing when i started and graduated in mining. I did very little hunting during this time, mostly just took my opalo along on soc hunts and stuff, but no aim at skilling.

6 months of sweating got my defensive skills up enough that I felt more effective when i started hunting.

Towards the end of my discipleship i started crafting basic filters from the oil and lyst that i mined, mostly just because i wanted to mix it up a little bit.

There were a couple of things that triggered my switch to skilling in hunting. 1st is I graduated, 2nd I wanted to be able to kill mobs off of my claims instead of hours of sucides to get them, 3rd I started depositing a little so I could afford to do more, and 4th the tripple skills event started.

That started a few month rampage of very un-eco hunt skilling rampage of my life here. Ive settled down now to playing more eco again. Now I mostly hunt small game that I can kill with opalos/cb5s without armor, or when i can afford an H400 (which i have maxed now) I will hunt with it, still being careful to hunt game i can kill quickly and with minimal armor and fap decay. I mix this up with some mining runs and if they are successful craft small things with what i dig up.

So to answer your question... hmm... what was the question?

You would have to define *effective* i guess.

Yes you can be a jack of all trades as a non-depositer or depositer.

The only way you can *profit* is if you are able to do it without depositing... and that is very difficult no matter what you do.

If you can deposit and want to have multiple options of activities then hunt and mine at the same time, and when your done craft with what you get.

If you cant deposit then you can still do the same thing but just on a smaller scale.

If you enjoy one activity more than the others i would do just that and not loose ped on other activities.

Just do whats fun

hope I clouded up the question properly,

narfi

 

[Mordrell]

I wanted to say something but seems like Narfi summed it up pretty nicely

Personally I have periods where I prefer to only hunt and the next month I will do nothing but mine And when I really want to blow peds I will try and craft something....

Your only limit is your pedcard

 

[Deleted member 23278]

yes to be a jack of all trades is possible but you need alot of time and money.

It can realisticly take a year (or more) of daily playing to become proficient in any one profession unless you buy skills of course but that doesn't buy you knowledge..... spread yourself too thin and it can be a real hard battle to get the "jack" title

 

[narfi]

Your right hellraizer, i met to say somthing abou that but forgot. If your just starting out I would definatly pick one profession to become proffecient in at a time. Then when you are profecient in that you can keep doing it, pick a new profession to become proffecient in, or a combination. Im not sure what i would call proffecient but graduation level in the main contributing skill to each profession was my goal.

narfi

 

[Ragewalker]

Thanks!

Thanks all for the great input.

+1 rep to all!

 

[AJack10600]

It would be pretty costly to skill up in every profession... But it's possible if you have a lot of time

 

[WoenK]

yes to be a jack of all trades is possible but you need alot of time and money.

It can realisticly take a year (or more) of daily playing to become proficient in any one profession unless you buy skills of course but that doesn't buy you knowledge..... spread yourself too thin and it can be a real hard battle to get the "jack" title

There are a lot of skills that are in different proffesions.
Bit of hunting helps in mining, Bit of mining helps in crafting and crafting helps a bit in both.
To become "proficient" within a year is not possible without an unlimited creditcard and chipping in, probably not even possible in 50 years without depositing at all. And even with unlimited funds and time it will surely take 5-10 years when skilling "naturally".

Best advice for multiskillers is, craft with what you get from the system, focus on one profession mainly, mining or hunting are still the "cheaper" ones.
I got 110k in skills within 18 months, maybe 5-10k of those chipped in quite early after discipleship (without really knowing what i was doing), still a newb with around level 14 in crafting/mining and only level 46 in my highest hunting profession, but the knowledge I got from it is simply turning out to be money saving and reducing losses.
Still have a gazillion of skills I have not even tried yet, but I think in 2-3 years I will eventually have most of the possible ones above 1k

 

[timmmers]

It would be pretty costly to skill up in every profession... But it's possible if you have a lot of time

The best reply IME ...I should have stuck to one profession, didn't, and now have no great profession. I'd be a much better hunter by now...laser that is..if I had never mined, or never crafted..wait, but I craft some of the weapons .....and global on that sometimes....pays for ammo....cycles ...some days one profession is king, another it's a money pit. Nice IMO to be able to change, as quoted it's time or money that's gonna cost you.


Do what you enjoy, for me that is all.


Like me right now turning this awful brash arse on BB over and watching another TV channel

t

 

[Xandra]

Hi,

the best advice IMHO:

There are a lot of skills that are in different proffesions.
Bit of hunting helps in mining, Bit of mining helps in crafting and crafting helps a bit in both.

[...]

Best advice for multiskillers is, craft with what you get from the system, focus on one profession mainly, mining or hunting are still the "cheaper" ones.

For anybody not planning an exclusive career in one of "Service Center Professions" (Trading, Crafting) I'd recommend this way:
(I didn't do like this myself, but have learned from my mistakes)

1. Start with sweating, then Laser Rifle (Opalo).
   This is to build up some survivability - learn to kill small mobs, to evade, and to maneuver your avatar. Get your basic TP's in this phase. "Laser Rifle" because close to all relatively cheap longer range rifles are laser, and you'll love to have a tag gun later. Don't forget to have a TT FAP, and to use if needed!
   This phase ends when Opalo is close to be maxed.
   .
2. Now start to max all of the other TT weapons.
   This might be regarded wasted time and money by some - but you'll never ever again get skills this fast, and a lot of them are most useful. You'll recognize now that your laser pistol skills yet are better than in the beginning - shooting the Opalo has teched you some pistol skills already! This is what this method is for - utilizing the way the skill system works.
   You might have looted small BLP rifles and pistols yet - feel free to max 'em, too! It's a good idea to use the "action sets" feature to be able to switch fast between weapon sets, for instance one set for BLP (that seems to have slightly more damage) and another for Laser, maybe a third set for Melee. Have a rifle, a pistol, a sword and either knive or knuckles in each one - and the FAP. Use them all, in approbate order.
   Collect all animal hides you'll find, and all Basic Leather extractors - you'll need 'em later and they're close to worthless anyway!
   Finish your TP runs now.
   This phase ends when you're roughly close to have maxed most of the TT weapons. You might end it earlier, but at least you should be able to move freely without fear to get eaten by any other mob ...
   .
   Remark:
   You should notice now that you have got a lot of skills. You might even have got the first profession "Up's" in professions that you never tried (like plasma, clubber or taming) - this is what this method is for.
   You should now be able to choose the way of weapons you prefer, and you should have the skills to utilize the first (L) versions of them.
   .
3. Now the fun begins - a lot of fun!
   .
   • Decide what kind of weapons to use, and get yourself what you need. Always use the "Tagger - rifle - pistol - finisher" order, it will save you a lot of PED's in the long run, at least as long as you don't go for rifle only. Use your action sets to adjust the used weapons to the attacked mob!
     .
     And start looking for a better FAP. Maybe you are able to test a FAP 50? Should it give you heals of 20 or above at least "often", get one. A combat FAP is priceless!
     But never use it after combat - much too expensive. Use the suiting (L) FAP there that gives you SIB. Slow, but effective.
     .
   • Start mining now. Both Ore and Enmatter.
     (If you plan to become a pure hunter-only, and/ or mean PK, and never to mine nor craft, skip this step and the followings. But you'll needlessly sacrifice a lot of flexibility ...)
     Goal is again to max the TT gear. Use it and have a look what you find. I'd recommend to keep everything that you cannot sell at 110% or above. It's not worth the hassle, but don't TT if there's no urgent need to do - you might have use for it soon!
     .
   • Get BP books and BP's, and start crafting finally!
     A perfect candidate for the first tries is the "Generic Leather Texture" BP. You should nearly drown in generic leather and basic leather extractors meanwhile, so get yourself the BP and craft 'em! The BP should be 1 PED at auction, be found next to a random crafting terminal or maybe, best, be to be borrowed from a Soc mate, with a better QR than 0.0 ...
     Check what of your materials are hard to sell, get the BP's and craft 'em - this way you add another chance for good loot without sacrificing too much!
   .
4. Now you are ready.
   You have learned to defend yourself, and you have basic knowledge in mining and crafting to add to your efficiency.
   It's time now to decide what road to choose, you have opened all of the entrances, and you have seen what you have to expect - now you can make a sound decision.
   And, as a bonus, you have quite easily earned quite a lot of skills that will help you greatly in your future.
   .
5. A remark about the gear to choose:
   I'd try to "step up" when you still have SIB on the next item, but have maxed it to about 75% yet. This way you are often able to buy quite low TT items that sometimes are coming ways cheaper than full ones ... Until it is wasted completely you might be ready yet for the next one - this would be perfect.

This is based on my own experiences, and what I tell to ppl if they ask me. To be honest, I stole it from a text I wrote before quite some time, was meant as kind of guide but died due to my laziness ;-)

This will, for sure, not make you Uber in a year, but I'm quite sure it would give you a solid skill basis without costing an arm and a leg.

In my own case I have concentrated on Swords from the beginning which has proved as a major mistake. It took me more than a year to skill up my ranged skills (that I completely ignored in my beginning) sufficiently to be able to utilize my swords full power.
And indeed I started mining quite early, but ignored the complementary crafting for much too long - this way TT'ing/ selling cheaply huge amounts of materials that would, used for crafting and TT'ed then, have had contributed much more to my efficiency.

In my humble opinion it takes a well balanced suite of skills: for instance well balanced hunting skills with at least more-than-basic mining & crafting skills (there's different ways to put the focus, this for "mainly-hunter"), to reach a tier where you're able to get at least a little control over your gaming costs. I haven't done this, and I paid heavily for it.

Hope this might benefit somebody.
Have fun, and phat loot!

 

[Ancient]

Yes ofcourse you can be multi skilled. You just have to work out how much money you can afford to spend and what skill lvl's you want to get to. If you cannot afford to reach your desired skill lvl's then concentrate on maybe one or 2 professions or whatever you can afford depending on the skill lvl's you want to reach. If you want to be a kiling machine like me then just concentrate on hunting.

 

[Parlog]

its has big advantages when you can afford to be multiskilled. First and foremost the hp-gains you get for hg, rifle and meele combat. If you combine that with prospecting, surveying, drilling and mining you soon will get a quite decent constitution for not much money.

If you need to buy your guns you are always able to pick the cheapest, most optimal solutions, thereby you can adapt to your current mob. Same with finders in mining.

Hmm i am not a jack of all trades, because i dont craft.

 

[Ragewalker]

More awesome info and insight thanks!

 

[Zeca Ralho]

its has big advantages when you can afford to be multiskilled. First and foremost the hp-gains you get for hg, rifle and meele combat. If you combine that with prospecting, surveying, drilling and mining you soon will get a quite decent constitution for not much money.

If you need to buy your guns you are always able to pick the cheapest, most optimal solutions, thereby you can adapt to your current mob. Same with finders in mining.

Hmm i am not a jack of all trades, because i dont craft.

... yet ...

 

[Naifas Anaconda]

I do not know any uber player that is not a jack of all trades of some sort. As parlog says, being multi-skilled gives you more options and HPs.

 

[Miles]

An important point, which I thought you might have been asking, and since no one has stated it, I'll make even if you weren't

You don't have to select a profession.

Unlike some games where you select certain a role when you create your avatar, all EU avatars are created equal. You gain skills based on the activities you take part in, and changing or mixing professions is as simple as changing or mixing your activities.

Having said that, as many have advised so far, it is generally a good idea to focus your attention on a single profession, especially early on. It can also be enjoyable to try a bit of everything as you go along, just to see how things work and to getter a better feel for how the different parts of the economy interact.

Good Luck in whatever path you chose and wherever it leads you.



Miles

 

[Profit]

There's a question that you need to ask yourself;
Are you here to play a game, or work? Alternatively - Are you here (EU) for fun, or profit?
If you answer 'fun' then you can be a "Jack of all trades".
If you answer 'profit' then the question becomes exponentially more complex.

If you want to make a profit, start a business, apply yourself in the real world. You'll make 1000's of times more profit IRL than you will in EU. The time for mass profits with no effort within EU, have passed.

As far as taking part in all professions... Mining is the cheapest in my opinion, as potential losses are not so severe unless you're on CND or running with big amps. If you're going to craft use materials you loot yourself as opposed to buying them, markup is your enemy. Crafting is incredibly expensive and it's not unusual to lose thousands of PEDs on a bad day (I lost 1k PED yesterday just on shriek basic... a lvl 1 BP).

I started this game with sparkly eyes intent on supporting myself without deposits. I soon came to realise that not depositing made fun almost non-existant. So I started to deposit with the hope of enjoying myself with minimal losses. I soon realised that this was not possible due to my inability to see fun in scrutinising small details and constantly doing cost/return analysis.
Now I deposit regularly (almost daily), lose tonnes of money, have tonnes of fun.
Enjoy yourself, spend what you can afford, forget about turning a profit.

 

[Xandra]

Hi Miles,
just a remark:

Having said that, as many have advised so far, it is generally a good idea to focus your attention on a single profession, especially early on.

(Bold by me)

Without disagreeing to your sound and reasonable post I'd say the last part (bold) might be questionable. Not wrong, but there's something more to consider IMHO:

As far as I know there's a window of time in the very early development of avatar skills where skills come at a quite improved rate, introduced and announced when MA changed the stats of freshly created avatars, and the rate of skill gains later (aka "the dreaded skill nerf").

We do not know how the end of this phase is determined (or does somebody?), but my experience makes me believe it's closely connected to graduating (end of discipleship), if it doesn't use the same mechanics at all. That would be a sound reuse of a feature yet in game, no need to code a new one, and seems to fit.

This would mean the end of the "fast skillgain" phase would be determined by reaching a certain skill level in one of the involved professions. So reaching this certain level as fast as possible would be a serious mistake - the newcomer would sacrifice the possibility to develop other skills it would need anyways utilizing this "fast skillgain".

For instance:

"Jo 'theNoob' NotSoSmart" wants to become an evil PK, and starts skilling BLP pistol only (no idea if PK's do this, but let's assume ...). Only BLP pistol, and nothing else. He will become dangerous quite fast, and quite fast reach the point of graduation where the "fast skillgain" stops.
And he got a certain amount of skills in his "fast skillgain" phase.

Now we have a look at "Jane 'SmartGurl' Cutie". She has read my HowTo here, and skills all the TT has to offer in her initial "fast skillgain" period. She will take a lot longer to graduate, but she will come out as a well rounded Jane-of-all-trades.
She will have received a multiple of Jo's skills fully utilizing her "fast skillgain" phase.

Thus Jane will have saved a lot of PED's that Jo will need to spent if he later decides that mining would be nice, too, for instance.


For sure this is just a theory, and I have no data to prove. But it matches my experience, and I haven't seen something rebutting it yet. Any ideas welcome!

So I'd change the above quoted sentence to:

It is generally a good idea to focus your attention on a single profession, after you have fully utilized your initial "fast skilling" period with skilling anything you can afford.

Have fun!

 

[Miles]

Hi Miles,
just a remark:
...
As far as I know there's a window of time in the very early development of avatar skills where skills come at a quite improved rate, introduced and announced when MA changed the stats of freshly created avatars, and the rate of skill gains later (aka "the dreaded skill nerf").

We do not know how the end of this phase is determined (or does somebody?), but my experience makes me believe it's closely connected to graduating (end of discipleship), if it doesn't use the same mechanics at all. That would be a sound reuse of a feature yet in game, no need to code a new one, and seems to fit

This would mean the end of the "fast skillgain" phase would be determined by reaching a certain skill level in one of the involved professions. So reaching this certain level as fast as possible would be a serious mistake - the newcomer would sacrifice the possibility to develop other skills it would need anyways utilizing this "fast skillgain".
...

Hmm, I find that any untapped skill has a fast skill gain period when you first start using it, no matter the age of your avatar.

It is a well know fact that as any skill increases, it increases more slowly. It has also been confirmed (I think) that there are certain zones where skill gains slow up even more.

This is the first I've heard that all skills can be gained even more quickly prior to a certain point of avatar development. Clearly this would be possible for MA to do, but without confirmation that it exists, I don't think I'd use it as a basis to advise others. (You may well be correct though. More info please )

I have skilled some with a wide variety of melee weapons, and even some support weapons. I did it much later on, and skills came quite rapidly when I did, to the point where I find it hard to believe they would have come all that much more quickly if I had done it as a disciple.

That said, one of the joys of EU/FPC is that there is no right or wrong way to approach it. Pros and cons surround every choice you make.

To me, focusing on one area will lead to unlocking skills sooner, and allow you to engage in your primary activity more efficiently. Then as you progress, you can branch out and try other things. I personally mix my activities about 75% hunting, 20% mining, 5% crafting, or so. My own goal is to be well rounded, but not really a "Jack-of-all-trades".



Miles

 

[Xandra]

Hi,

Hmm, I find that any untapped skill has a fast skill gain period when you first start using it, no matter the age of your avatar.

Due to the SIB on the gear we usually have in such a situation?

When I started crafting I already had close to 4K in Longblades. Skill gains in crafting was most painfully slow (still are ...).
A friend that started it at the same time was in the period between "too good to become disciple" and graduation (would he had been a disciple). His skilling speed was by far superior to mine, even when we used the same BP's (literally) and crafted quite similar amounts.
The difference was shocking.

This is the first I've heard that all skills can be gained even more quickly prior to a certain point of avatar development. Clearly this would be possible for MA to do, but without confirmation that it exists, I don't think I'd use it as a basis to advise others. (You may well be correct though. More info please )

I have searched, but got no result.
As far as I can remember it came with the VU where the initial stats of freshly created avatars was reduced - prior to this we started with 20 points in any attribute (besides Health and Stamina), now they start with 1.
(Remark: Went to PA drop zone to scan a complete freshman. No one there. Waited 20 min while chatting, no one came. Have never before seen such.)

Anyway, as compensation it was announced that the new avatars nerfed this way would enjoy faster skill gains for their initial learning period.
As far as I remember (but not sure) this also introduced the even more slowed down skill gain speed for more experienced participants, aka the skill nerf.
Maybe one of the readers, with a more reliable memory, could help me out?

I'm very sure about the "Attributes reduced - initial skill gain speed improved". Must have been sometimes after April 2006, made a test ava for my partner then, and it has the 20's attributes still.

To me, focusing on one area will lead to unlocking skills sooner, and allow you to engage in your primary activity more efficiently. Then as you progress, you can branch out and try other things.

Fully agree, as long as it means the period after the initial phase that I'd see until graduation. After you have passed this limit your advice is worth pure PED.
Before this point - well, I cannot prove. Maybe someone will come to help, maybe not. I'm fully aware I might be completely wrong, but I'm still quite confident I'm remembering correctly.

So I'd recommend to use your very early days to build a solid fundament in hunting, mining & crafting, then concentrating on the chosen way. This way the new participant would quite fast be able to enjoy added "chances for the jackpot" for otherwise useless activities (running across the server to the next spawn - you could easily drop a bomb) or loots (it's always better to craft Animal Hides, Lyst or Oil instead of TTing, right?).

You are very correct that after this period one should decide what to do, and follow this goal with compassion.

So we aren't this much different, right?

I personally mix my activities about 75% hunting, 20% mining, 5% crafting, or so. My own goal is to be well rounded, but not really a "Jack-of-all-trades".

I might replace "Jack-of-all-trades" with "Xandra-of-all-trades", and sign happily ;-)

One of these days I gotta get myself organizized, and will loot a "Basic Beer Blueprint"! I'll make a public service announcement - with guitar, and maybe with the famous electric camel drum if I can get it, and I promise you'll be the first one to test it!

Have fun!

 

[Thorn]

Yes it just takes some time. Patience is the greatest asset in EU. Through the years I`ve skilled hunting mining and crafting. Back in the day I started with blades then switched to rifle and then handgun. I started hobby mining and turned it into my main profession because I found it easier to make a profit and fund the rest of my activitites. And of course having resources on hand I skilled crafting with basic components and moved up to making small amps for my own use mining. When there is extra ped I skill other areas that would`nt be so eco at other times. Having a well rounded avatar was always my goal and I`ve stuck with it. This allows me to jump from one to the other and have decent skills to use better weapons and finders and I think results in a better chance to profit at any of them given a bit of restraint and applying some reasoning. Of course knowlege of the game is an unwritten skill and helps greatly with chossing what do do at any given time and when or for how long. Sure it`s a longer road to travel but i think one with more opportunity. And it can be an insurance plan against slow periods in any of the other professions.