(L) armor with 60% critical buff

[atomicstorm]

Rings stack also, bieng that the reason i reckon you bought your summer ring over your old ares.

What you mean with easter, was only 3 of them and all in the same soc, and sold within soc anyway

Neither of your points were relevant here.

Rings stack, yes. The armor is from the pre ring era. It was only a matter of time that this armor would be removed because of the compound effect. The allure of the summer ring was because of skills because I was hell bent on maxing and it gave 0.014dpp boost to my setup. Very minor, not worth buying outright with the gear I had but a nice trade was acceptable and I maxed my swords quicker. The key point with rings is that they are available to everyone of all professions. It's not creating a dpp gap across professions, like the armor, which already has a couple added benefits of little defense costs and lazy shooting. To be clear, my stance is and always will be for all professions to be leveled from a tools perspective. It's the very same stance but of a different pivot as many of you have with the middle tier player.

As for easter, this isn't a soc problem. Let's not have a holy war vs. Wss just as people need to calm their boners about girts. Makes everyone lose credibility when we get off the topic and start going after individual people or societies. It's just stupid. I don't know why they had a 3% crit ring on the non ares hand. I always thought it was an error and they didn't bother to fix it. It's not even these rings that give the benefit as much as all the accuracy enhancers. There's a reason why accuracy enhancers spiked and that makes the rest of the game more expensive. But with easter ring, they'll eventually have to make moves to balance that out whether through the ring decaying like crazy or through the next stage of accessories. We have no idea... if anyone knew what mindark is thinking, you'd be a God amongst digital men.

Have civil discourse not forum tantrums and personal attacks.

 

[Manique]

Neither of your points were relevant here.

Rings stack, yes. The armor is from the pre ring era. It was only a matter of time that this armor would be removed because of the compound effect.

As for easter, this isn't a soc problem. Let's not have a holy war vs. Wss just as people need to calm their boners about girts. Makes everyone lose credibility when we get off the topic and start going after individual people or societies. It's just stupid.

Have civil discourse not forum tantrums and personal attacks.

I dont have any personal war vs WSS, got quite a bunch of friends there anyway, but giving a example of some small niche things that only few will ever have acess to.

I get it you dont understand the EST thing because you are a melee user and your mobs would decay it, so do smilgs thats why you both avoided the armor.

I find it far more damaging as example, the EP-41/Madd IV being aquired at anytime other than looted (adjusted ones) there can be an unl number of them, (L) weaponry will sink even further on price.

And it took 4 years to realise that? I mean come on,

Im quite calm about it, i just find somewhat hipocritical, judging some stuff to be broken but what he owns, does, isnt.

 

[Manique]

We have no idea... if anyone knew what mindark is thinking, you'd be a God amongst digital men.

With this i got an idea

Fucking over ton of people without even making public statement

What they got in mind i believe is how to lose more and more players by killing their credibility on what they own.
Next thing make so that CLD's disapear after you make your investment back

 

[atomicstorm]

I dont have any personal war vs WSS, got quite a bunch of friends there anyway, but giving a example of some small niche things that only few will ever have acess to.

I get it you dont understand the EST thing because you are a melee user and your mobs would decay it, so do smilgs thats why you both avoided the armor.

I find it far more damaging as example, the EP-41/Madd IV being aquired at anytime other than looted (adjusted ones) there can be an unl number of them, (L) weaponry will sink even further on price.

And it took 4 years to realise that? I mean come on,

Im quite calm about it, i just find somewhat hipocritical, judging some stuff to be broken but what he owns, does, isnt.

I'm gonna stop you right there with the bullshit. This does not and will not have anything to do with me being a melee user or my land area mobs. You are wrong on both accounts. Stop making this personal and stop relying on strawman arguments.

I use melee primary and I use laser rifle as needed. I use it in either situations as I've mentioned more than 5 times. I also had an m83 up to a couple months ago. Now I just use the L versions.

Khorum Coast is a great for Earth shock because of Mutated hadraada being the slowest mob in game. So no, the armor does not decay and yet I still have the same stance. So you are wrong again.

Stop making assumptions about why we take the positions when we do after explaining our positions multiple times. You are being blinded by your own anger about the situation and not even seeing it at a bigger picture.

We agree on so many areas of the game situation and yet, you want to throw a straw man point out there just to vent about why this armor was removed. It's just plain unnecessary.

 

[atomicstorm]

With this i got an idea

Fucking over ton of people without even making public statement

What they got in mind i believe is how to lose more and more players by killing their credibility on what they own.
Next thing make so that CLD's disapear after you make your investment back

Going over the top.. we don't need to go to that extreme of disappearing clds. I get you are angry but let's keep it in the realm of possibilities.

They should make a statement, yes. But somehow I think that even if they did, it wouldnt satisfy many. People are looking for people to burn. And quite frankly, the types of irrational thinking and drama on pcf is a good reason for mindark to not come to these forums. We, the players, are sometimes our worst enemy.

 

[Rocket192]

The clear issue is as $5 and Girts point out.. the way the armor is being used, in conjunction w/ existing buffs, creates a severe balance problem... One that cannot be corrected so long as EST armor can be used in a way to avoid decay from certain damage types (unless % crit dmg is capped more severely).

There's a very good chance MA totally missed the armor's effect while being used with ring buffs. That combo alone is a recipe for MA to bleed peds...Hell, if 50% of the playerbase grabbed an imp ares, good range rifle, and EST armor, they could hunt w/o armor decay and MA would bleed cash so fast the game would be bankrupt in a year.

The removal of EST was pivotal to MA's survival with the current buff system... However, my problem is with the unfair advantage this created. EST owners are unjustly enriched and advantaged against other players since EST removal. Something needs to be done to balance that effect.. either the armor needs to decay somehow, crit dmg needs to be capped much further (rendering the armor less useful), or the armor needs to be removed entirely with some sort of compensation mechanism.

Alternatively, I can't seem to find a solution that wouldn't royally piss off someone, so my guess is that MA will do nothing, EST owners will continue to exploit the armor (and the majority of players will suffer as a result), and MA will mitigate the potential cash bleed they would have suffered.

However, any other action by MA would piss off people severely, so if they were to do anything else my guess is they would cap crit dmg buffs. But even doing that would render armor useless. Even combat tokens will fall dramatically following this decision.

Compensation = pissed players
Capped buffs = pissed players
EST removal/do nothing = pissed players
reinstate EST armor = bankruptcy

So honestly, I have no idea what MA can/should/will do here. But, my guess is we will get a statement, but not until they've worked over the pros and cons of every action and make a decision.

 

[atomicstorm]

I am not convinced that the armor is making mindark bleed peds. They are still getting their decay. But it does reduce the peds in the "pool" and that may be more than enough for it to be pulled (see my other argument). I am not the only one that has seen stunted hunting hofs on the board over the last year to 18 months.

I am actually curious how this impacts the weekly CLD return. Not because of less grinding while people are upset but if there was any impact to the amount of peds the PP/MA received from said activity.

With the eco safeguard of 3.2, no player and no buff setup should be allowing the player to get from 3.8 to 4.0 or higher. Because it is those players that end up running shooters 24 hours a day (whether legal or not). I would love to know what part of it all made Mindark remove the armor, but I will guess we won't know.

 

[Manique]

Going over the top.. we don't need to go to that extreme of disappearing clds. I get you are angry but let's keep it in the realm of possibilities.

They should make a statement, yes. But somehow I think that even if they did, it wouldnt satisfy many. People are looking for people to burn. And quite frankly, the types of irrational thinking and drama on pcf is a good reason for mindark to not come to these forums. We, the players, are sometimes our worst enemy.

I told you already im not angry even tho you believe I do^
I achieved and got what i got in the ways you probably know, so i got nothing to be angry about, just sad how things are

Statments should be made and a mistake that is "only" 4 year old,
People assumed it wasnt a mistake but yes an extra, same with rings.

Next thing they change the rings in a way they arent worth using anymore, how happy would you feel with your summer ring then?

 

[Manique]

The clear issue is as $5 and Girts point out.. the way the armor is being used, in conjunction w/ existing buffs, creates a severe balance problem... One that cannot be corrected so long as EST armor can be used in a way to avoid decay from certain damage types (unless % crit dmg is capped more severely).

There's a very good chance MA totally missed the armor's effect while being used with ring buffs. That combo alone is a recipe for MA to bleed peds...Hell, if 50% of the playerbase grabbed an imp ares, good range rifle, and EST armor, they could hunt w/o armor decay and MA would bleed cash so fast the game would be bankrupt in a year.

The removal of EST was pivotal to MA's survival with the current buff system... However, my problem is with the unfair advantage this created. EST owners are unjustly enriched and advantaged against other players since EST removal. Something needs to be done to balance that effect.. either the armor needs to decay somehow, crit dmg needs to be capped much further (rendering the armor less useful), or the armor needs to be removed entirely with some sort of compensation mechanism.

Alternatively, I can't seem to find a solution that wouldn't royally piss off someone, so my guess is that MA will do nothing, EST owners will continue to exploit the armor (and the majority of players will suffer as a result), and MA will mitigate the potential cash bleed they would have suffered.

However, any other action by MA would piss off people severely, so if they were to do anything else my guess is they would cap crit dmg buffs. But even doing that would render armor useless. Even combat tokens will fall dramatically following this decision.

Compensation = pissed players
Capped buffs = pissed players
EST removal/do nothing = pissed players
reinstate EST armor = bankruptcy

So honestly, I have no idea what MA can/should/will do here. But, my guess is we will get a statement, but not until they've worked over the pros and cons of every action and make a decision.

There is infact a % of extra efficiency that players get if INFACT eco does matter.
But I rest you assured, the ammount of PED that is "bled out" with EST, is nothing comparable than the "damage" 1 single easter ring can do if you run the math, since people HAD to hunt for the tokens or buy them and it did decay

 

[atomicstorm]

I told you already im not angry even tho you believe I do^
I achieved and got what i got in the ways you probably know, so i got nothing to be angry about, just sad how things are

Statments should be made and a mistake that is "only" 4 year old,
People assumed it wasnt a mistake but yes an extra, same with rings.

Next thing they change the rings in a way they arent worth using anymore, how happy would you feel with your summer ring then?

You aren't reading manique. I don't know how else to explain it to you other than let you be wrong.

1. No one is claiming earth shock is a 4 year mistake. NO ONE. It's a problem now with buff stacking and that is may not even a year old. It's worse because of the easter ring... a point you bring up but for the wrong reason.

2. There will be more and better rings and eventually they will be diluted by new accessories. All those things are known. It's the iPhone paradox. Do you upgrade or do you just sit it out a couple cycles until something more meaningful comes up. The best thing to do is not spend 390k on a ring that was either an error or will eventually be diluted.

3. Rings are bought and used without knowing the type of decay they will add. Something I've warned about and we will eventually have to deal with. So when people pay 390k or 50k for rings when their eco could be dissolved by decay they hadn't implemented is foolish. So I suspect, we will have the same thread soon about ring decay with more irrational posts.

But none of these points have anything to do with the game imbalance of earth shock... this is all a completely different argument apparently about changing gear stats or removing them from game which they have done since they beginning in one form or another....

But now my battery is dead.. so continue on..

 

[Manique]

You aren't reading manique. I don't know how else to explain it to you other than let you be wrong.

1. No one is claiming earth shock is a 4 year mistake. NO ONE. It's a problem now with buff stacking and that is may not even a year old. It's worse because of the easter ring... a point you bring up but for the wrong reason.

2. There will be more and better rings and eventually they will be diluted by new accessories. All those things are known. It's the iPhone paradox. Do you upgrade or do you just sit it out a couple cycles until something more meaningful comes up. The best thing to do is not spend 390k on a ring that was either an error or will eventually be diluted.

3. Rings are bought and used without knowing the type of decay they will add. Something I've warned about and we will eventually have to deal with. So when people pay 390k or 50k for rings when their eco could be dissolved by decay they hadn't implemented is foolish. So I suspect, we will have the same thread soon about ring decay with more irrational posts.

But none of these points have anything to do with the game imbalance of earth shock... this is all a completely different argument apparently about changing gear stats or removing them from game which they have done since they beginning in one form or another....

I am reading, however you just want to be right no matter what, Im just putting out my point of view 5$

1. The EST always stacked from start, if you recall when they introduced caps on the buffs, the EST was shortly capped at 20-40% (i forgot) and people got mad for a week till it got solved.

2. Better than Easter Ring, might aswell toss ped in the players pockets instead cos that is how good that ring is as you know it.

3. I cant see the rings having massive decay because of the reduced TT... for the moment, which can change as its habit with MA changing stuff.

 

[krogfan]

I am reading, however you just want to be right no matter what, Im just putting out my point of view 5$

1. The EST always stacked from start, if you recall when they introduced caps on the buffs, the EST was shortly capped at 20-40% (i forgot) and people got mad for a week till it got solved.

2. Better than Easter Ring, might aswell toss ped in the players pockets instead cos that is how good that ring is as you know it.

3. I cant see the rings having massive decay because of the reduced TT... for the moment, which can change as its habit with MA changing stuff.

MA superrarely has changed the stat of an item......thats just not fair to say.

Second of allthey havent changed anything atm, they just stopped spawning ESTs wich doesnt mean more or less then other things that has stopped to drop over time.

Personally I bought dual sets as they were introduced since I thought allready back then it was a big mistake the huge buff youre getting from it. I can achieve the same effect without the set so I dont use it much but all reasonablepeople should know they were to remove it sooner or later.

Now stop being angryand argue about stuff above our heads, if you still like and use your set then be carefull about it since they prolly wont spawn any more of those.


//Linz

 

[carle]

As for easter, this isn't a soc problem. Let's not have a holy war vs. Wss just as people need to calm their boners about girts. Makes everyone lose credibility when we get off the topic and start going after individual people or societies. It's just stupid. I don't know why they had a 3% crit ring on the non ares hand. I always thought it was an error and they didn't bother to fix it. It's not even these rings that give the benefit as much as all the accuracy enhancers. There's a reason why accuracy enhancers spiked and that makes the rest of the game more expensive. But with easter ring, they'll eventually have to make moves to balance that out whether through the ring decaying like crazy or through the next stage of accessories.

You know its capped at 5% rigth?
Summer+ mk2+ helmet = 5%
Summer+mk2 =4%

As long as its capped crying for balancing isnt called for.
Ofc you can argue that you can have summer and easter 5% from crit only but the decay on mk2 aint immense 10 ped /10k uses and it gives extra skill so thats not what breaks bank.

An big hunter can do 50k shots in 1 day with my setup that 18000 ped
But diffrence vs easter+summer and summer + mk2 is 200 ped = 1.1%
Ofc when you use all other added crit gear it swings higher but still as long as there is a cap its best ring but far from overpowered

 

[sachi.mk2]

Next thing they change the rings in a way they arent worth using anymore, how happy would you feel with your summer ring then?

The removal of EST could well be the forerunner to ring decay.

 

[Norbert]

Aaah the balance.

No real opinion, but an amusing thread.


Carry on

 

[delver]

Maybe the fairest thing MA could do is have certain mobs now damage EST?

 

[Manique]

MA superrarely has changed the stat of an item......thats just not fair to say.

Second of allthey havent changed anything atm, they just stopped spawning ESTs wich doesnt mean more or less then other things that has stopped to drop over time.

Personally I bought dual sets as they were introduced since I thought allready back then it was a big mistake the huge buff youre getting from it. I can achieve the same effect without the set so I dont use it much but all reasonablepeople should know they were to remove it sooner or later.

Now stop being angryand argue about stuff above our heads, if you still like and use your set then be carefull about it since they prolly wont spawn any more of those.


//Linz

You got it wrong,

I'm not angry about it, im just really worried because as the mid range player I am, i can see how this will kill player's trust by removing yet another usefull thing for the mid range.
If people start leaving more and more, you guys think it'll be MA just opening a charity house for players? We both know it aint that way.
You guys prolly cos you stand out and aint at the mid range player you cant see what I mean and why most feel its messed up cos it was a possible way to "boost" mid range and lower lvl players compared to some competition, same way you guys got all sorts of best rings ingames, scopes etc

 

[Angel O2 Mercer]

So, my support case was answered with exactly the same text as Skorp's, word by word. The armor will not be re-stocked, so I'll share my opinion (not that anyone should care).

1. The problem is now worse than ever, removing it from trader made it much worse.
2. The difference between those who have it and those who don't is bigger than ever. Cool...
3. There is a maximum cap for critical damage they could have changed (from the current +100%) but they didn't.
4. As always, the ones who will pay for this are the middle class hunters. Resourceful fellas that already had it will not notice a change.
5. A lot of people was working towards acquiring a set by saving tokens, myself included. Fuck them all too.
6. With the new limited supply the doors have been left wide open for yet another market manipulation/speculation orgy. Congrats on that too.

So to sum up: this fixed nothing, actually made it worse, and pissed off a big number of players. Awesome job here.

Personally I will file another withdraw, buy a few more deeds and wait for the next VU to see if things have been really fixed.

Cheers.

 

[krogfan]

You got it wrong,

I'm not angry about it, im just really worried because as the mid range player I am, i can see how this will kill player's trust by removing yet another usefull thing for the mid range.
If people start leaving more and more, you guys think it'll be MA just opening a charity house for players? We both know it aint that way.
You guys prolly cos you stand out and aint at the mid range player you cant see what I mean and why most feel its messed up cos it was a possible way to "boost" mid range and lower lvl players compared to some competition, same way you guys got all sorts of best rings ingames, scopes etc

The game is still full of sets.......aaand youve been here a while, you keep talking about what I have as something unreachable while in reality all my items for buffs together costs less then a MM or imk2 used to cost a few years back.

Its getting cheaper to play/get good stuff ingame, now just one more thing stopped looting. I really really dont see the problem.

//Linz

 

[Me Really Never]

The game is still full of sets.......aaand youve been here a while, you keep talking about what I have as something unreachable while in reality all my items for buffs together costs less then a MM or imk2 used to cost a few years back.

Its getting cheaper to play/get good stuff ingame, now just one more thing stopped looting. I really really dont see the problem.

//Linz

the obvious problem is that MA is doing what they want due to one person complaining and thous create an even bigger dpp gap

also: if they remove it cos it is bugged, then it should be removed completely, otherwise they give a free card for using an exploit...

 

[Piotr]

FYI: This armor is no exploit, no bug, no cheat, no mistake. Armor itself wasnt a mistake, but the amount was (remember how hard it was in the early days to get a set)

Cool item for smart hunt and now they balanced it. Im pretty sure some new shit will come in its place sooner or later.

 

[beatlej]

while we are at it, i suggest to create a limitation to players connection at 12 hour per day.
IMO, Running your ava 24/24H 7/7D with "shooters" cause a serious imbalance to the game.

 

[Aio]

the obvious problem is that MA is doing what they want due to one person complaining and thous create an even bigger dpp gap

also: if they remove it cos it is bugged, then it should be removed completely, otherwise they give a free card for using an exploit...

No, they're not.

They have not removed EST due (solely) to this thread / girts frustrations with the set. I and many others thought it was extremely unbalanced, as 5$ pointed out it is a relic item which wasn't designed to be utilised in this way.

MA will have removed this item for multiple reasons - Vodka advertising it as a ped-earner on electric LAs is one of these, this thread is another, the cost of combat tokens and their extreme availability is another. But you know what? MA has the data. They, uniquely, can see how much people are earning with EST being used in this zero-decay way, and can see their costs. That will be the massive overriding factor in removing it - their baseline income. It's why things which affect MA's income get fixed immediately, while things which do not affect their income (botting on item waves, item waves themselves, CLD auction mistakes, general MU balacing) are second-priority which makes them very slow to be fixed.

It is in inelegant solution to just remove it from the trader, but actually is the only option they had which stuck within their own rules - there was no guarantee on the length of time it was available in the traders. It avoided changing an items stats (which they will never do, unless it is the only way i.e. axe 1x0), or rushing in a buff cost change which I don't think they have decided if they will go ahead with yet.

It's a shame how it has been handled, an announcement or at least the appearance of Ludvig would help but they have operated completely within the "MA ruleset".

 

[The Jetman]

the obvious problem is that MA is doing what they want due to one person complaining and thous create an even bigger dpp gap

also: if they remove it cos it is bugged, then it should be removed completely, otherwise they give a free card for using an exploit...

It can take one person to make MA realize their errors, it's better it was spotted than MA saying "well only one person has an issue, leave it there", if the stories i heard are right, the Cyrenian Stolen Armor was removed due to one persons complaint.

it's probably better the EST has gone, and hopefully they set a date in the future to cash out the held ones (maybe 2-3 years down the line, gives advance notice) ps i don't have a set, been melee/handgun, this armor was not suited to me at all, it unfairly favoured the rifle

 

[Me Really Never]

It can take one person to make MA realize their errors, it's better it was spotted than MA saying "well only one person has an issue, leave it there", if the stories i heard are right, the Cyrenian Stolen Armor was removed due to one persons complaint.

it's probably better the EST has gone, and hopefully they set a date in the future to cash out the held ones (maybe 2-3 years down the line, gives advance notice) ps i don't have a set, been melee/handgun, this armor was not suited to me at all, it unfairly favoured the rifle

the problem with it is that it is not removed. yes, its not in the trader anymore but there are hundreds of sets out there. and when their reason to remove it was that you can" exploit" the system with it then why dont they remove it completely? it just gives the people who own one a free ride on the exploit train. if it costs them money then they should remove it completely due to its "bug". this half ass crap with the silence inbetween is what makes this desastrous.

 

[The Jetman]

the problem with it is that it is not removed. yes, its not in the trader anymore but there are hundreds of sets out there. and when their reason to remove it was that you can" exploit" the system with it then why dont they remove it completely? it just gives the people who own one a free ride on the exploit train. if it costs them money then they should remove it completely due to its "bug". this half ass crap with the silence inbetween is what makes this desastrous.

they might still, this is effectively the beginning of their investigation, they won't tell you anything until its complete. after which they will announce it, be it full recall of sets, time deleted and made untradable, returned to trader & they are balanced or bomb the durability to make them decay quicker. Its too early to say at this moment.

 

[krogfan]

the problem with it is that it is not removed. yes, its not in the trader anymore but there are hundreds of sets out there. and when their reason to remove it was that you can" exploit" the system with it then why dont they remove it completely? it just gives the people who own one a free ride on the exploit train. if it costs them money then they should remove it completely due to its "bug". this half ass crap with the silence inbetween is what makes this desastrous.

Isnt that the same with all items ingame?? Youre stuck on whinemode?? Ive exploited my mod merc for years since they are still out there but no longer dropping

 

[The Jetman]

Isnt that the same with all items ingame?? Youre stuck on whinemode?? Ive exploited my mod merc for years since they are still out there but no longer dropping

true lol, i'd love some of the items from the easy life pre 2010 but i missed all that

 

[ImUp2Mischief]

lots of rings up for sale since est was removed
I have no doubt ring decay is coming this VU, MA act fast where money is involved!!!

I find it odd how much most people live by their DPP figures on paper, I use no buffs, use any weapons I loot and pay no attention to my dpp, I am losing?

 

[The Jetman]

lots of rings up for sale since est was removed
I have no doubt ring decay is coming this VU, MA act fast where money is involved!!!

I find it odd how much most people live by their DPP figures on paper, I use no buffs, use any weapons I loot and pay no attention to my dpp, I am losing?

It's advisable to monitor it a little, when your buying (L) guns if one is 105% and one is 120% you might find the 105% to be better eco. you can obsess over it and get better results, pending luck factor but to disregard it totally is a recipe for failure