looter professions and their place in loot2.0

[Deemer]

My looter skill was relatively low since my return to active play after a very long break. This might not be what happens to everyone but the only thing I noticed after my looter skill hit a certain level ( I don't want to necessarily call out the level since it might be variable for each avatar) was the loot composition changed...

The name Looter's profession suggests what you say. And I personally do tests with zero efficiency and a large over-amp to understand exactly this part of the puzzle. Regardless of the length for a kill, the results were only shrapnel. Therefore, I rather concluded that efficiency mainly affects composition. Maybe there is some relationship between them that needs to be explored. But thank you for sharing your personal observations, at least for me they were useful.

 

[Evey]

It's tested and there is no connection between looter and mob level

I believe the same but I never tested, nor seen any tests related to looter lvl vs mob level. How did you test this one?
Probably got 2 players shooting same mob, first mob level below unskilled player's looter level then another mob above unskilled player's looter level but below more skilled player looter's level, if the % difference is following same pattern, then mob level is not taken into equation of loot. I think this would be a valid way to test this.

 

[MsPudding]

The name Looter's profession suggests what you say. And I personally do tests with zero efficiency and a large over-amp to understand exactly this part of the puzzle. Regardless of the length for a kill, the results were only shrapnel. Therefore, I rather concluded that efficiency mainly affects composition. Maybe there is some relationship between them that needs to be explored. But thank you for sharing your personal observations, at least for me they were useful.

You may have this a little backwards, I'm pretty certain the devs have stated that DPP affects composition, efficiency affects tt % return. There is a correlation between high efficiency gear and a high DPP, but correlation =/= causation. An extremely low DPP item will yield almost exclusively shrap.

 

[allarom]

Same back to you then, that was just a stupid statement. Obv we think a lot before replying in thread. A more correct reply would be to test it before you write, but this is a place for discussion..

Now i dont trust your little experiment unless you can provide data to back it up. Also if it was this easy a multitude of ppl would have come to the same conclusion, since a lot of people like to test these things. Also when did you test this? Things change...

If you don't trust, go and test, please. I could provide any data for you, but then you say how do you know that this data is correct? Please go and test and I can assure you that you will get exact same results

Lol, you assume to know how the underlying loot 2.0 mechanics work that you are trying to improve with looter skill, you probably don't.
I was extensively testing 2.0 when it first arrived, its not the same as 1.0 obviously. Are you even aware of the loot gaps to be found in normal (non multiplied) loot? Probably not... are we so sure this 7% looter affect is constant and not subject to a dice roll? No we are not.. I could go on..

Dont be so dismissive...

Did I say that I know exactly where is looter level cap? no. I did say how to test it. This is literally an only open question atm. Everything else is as MA has stated and easily testable
Total loot 45k based on EL- what tests are you exactly talking about? Do you have cycled 1M with various efficiencies and looter levels and wrote down the rsults? Well I have

 

[allarom]

I believe the same but I never tested, nor seen any tests related to looter lvl vs mob level. How did you test this one?
Probably got 2 players shooting same mob, first mob level below unskilled player's looter level then another mob above unskilled player's looter level but below more skilled player looter's level, if the % difference is following same pattern, then mob level is not taken into equation of loot. I think this would be a valid way to test this.

This is exactly how we did it. 3rd person was finishing and looting- the difference % was always the same (around 0.07% per looter level), no matter what level the mob was

 

[Deemer]

You may have this a little backwards, I'm pretty certain the devs have stated that DPP affects composition, efficiency affects tt % return. There is a correlation between high efficiency gear and a high DPP, but correlation =/= causation. An extremely low DPP item will yield almost exclusively shrap.

Yeah, "I read it 100 times" =D... But I think there is confusion between the one who makes the changes and the one who informs us =D... The game is full mess*, therefore check all i want, Thanks =)

 

[MsPudding]

Yeah, "I read it 100 times" =D... But I think there is confusion between the one who makes the changes and the one who informs us =D... The game is full mess*, therefore check all i want, Thanks =)

Yes, at times there is definitely a disconnect between changes made and what changes are announced. It is also somewhat difficult verifying the above statement because generally low efficiency weapons are also low DPP weapons.

I do trust, and have confirmed with my own tests, that a higher efficiency absolutely returns higher tt% results. This is not a myth. Higher efficient weapons demand a higher price on the market for a valid reason. We can argue all day about "how much higher" they should actually be, but they should be higher. For now, we let the market decide.

 

[MsPudding]

My advice to anyone poking through this thread that is sub level 60 looter:

Get to level 60 looter on your current highest looter profession first, get the new skill unlock, then go focus on the other 2 looter types. When possible you should be taking codex rewards that boost your looter profession above all else right now. This is general advice, and may vary person to person, depending on their goals in game and gear available. However, it is important you get your looter skill higher, as it will translate to you saving PED in the long run.

 

[SleePy]

I believe the same but I never tested, nor seen any tests related to looter lvl vs mob level. How did you test this one?
Probably got 2 players shooting same mob, first mob level below unskilled player's looter level then another mob above unskilled player's looter level but below more skilled player looter's level, if the % difference is following same pattern, then mob level is not taken into equation of loot. I think this would be a valid way to test this.

I don't know if you wanna answer this, but with your eff. and high looter lvl do you TT profit over a big sample, lets say 6 months? Or do you rely on markup? If you do not TT profit, would allarom's conclusions from his test get you at or over TT profit if you were lvl 100?

 

[allarom]

I don't know if you wanna answer this, but with your eff. and high looter lvl do you TT profit over a big sample, lets say 6 months? Or do you rely on markup? If you do not TT profit, would allarom's conclusions from his test get you at or over TT profit if you were lvl 100?

lol, my tests show that it is not possible to get over 100% tt if the looter is capped at lvl 100. Based on my own formulas, i assume that he gets around 98.18% tt while hunting animals and 97.2% (maybe more since i based on 80 mutant looter) tt on mutants

 

[SleePy]

lol, my tests show that it is not possible to get over 100% tt if the looter is capped at lvl 100. Based on my own formulas, i assume that he gets around 98.18% tt while hunting animals and 97.2% (maybe more since i based on 80 mutant looter) tt on mutants

lol, hope he answers then and we will see if ur prediction is right

 

[Hego Damask]

Already read that, that is regarding loot 2.0 introduction it does not include the official statement about looter professions that was added later.

Yes, my bad.

Dev note
https://www.entropiauniverse.com/bu...oper-Notes--16---Buff-Improvements-n-More.xml

Release note
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...tropia-universe-15-16-0-release-notes.259905/

 

[allarom]

lol, hope he answers then and we will see if ur prediction is right

well, I have a really simple formula: (looter lvl + efficiency)*0,07+86. But it only works in the case of lvl 100 capped looter. if this 7% effect is stretched above 100, it is not accurate

 

[Hego Damask]

Yeah, "I read it 100 times" =D... But I think there is confusion between the one who makes the changes and the one who informs us =D... The game is full mess*, therefore check all i want, Thanks =)

You wrote a large over-amp, which added lot of cost, but minimal extra dmg, so it made your DPP very bad.
DPP affecting composition.
That is the reason for shrap only.

 

[allarom]

You wrote a large over-amp, which added lot of cost, but minimal extra dmg, so it made your DPP very bad.
DPP affecting composition.
That is the reason for shrap only.

IMO "only sharp" is not the case. You still loot the same amount MU per loot event. The thing is that shrap is just a filler and if there are no more other items in loot, your output is filled with shrap. You don't get less MU after killing 10000 mobs with low dpp vs high dpp. You get bigger % of shrap vs MU cause the input was higher and output has to be filled. So yeah, dpp indeed affects overall loot composition

 

[ImUp2Mischief]

Yes, my bad.

Dev note
https://www.entropiauniverse.com/bu...oper-Notes--16---Buff-Improvements-n-More.xml

Release note
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...tropia-universe-15-16-0-release-notes.259905/

Thanks for that Hego!

• An avatar´s relevant loot profession will improve actual loot returns as it increases.

Nowhere I've read anything about 7% and mindarks wording is often poor.
That statement implies to me loot composition more than increased tt, which works with my observations. When I hunt well below my looter levels I get good markup, above my looter level results in far more shrapnel.

 

[Sirhc]

I have confirmed with the dev team that the loot profession only affects loot returns (as stated in the release notes), not loot composition.

Hmmm So I have to roll back my initial thoughts on my noticeable loot composition changes based on recent looter profession changes. I've been hunting with the same efficiency weapon for some time now so I would hazard a guess its not weapon choice but some other factor or combination of skills/prof levels/system changes that are affecting the changes I am seeing.

It's possible MA has tweaked their system in the past couple of years since Ludvig made that statement. There has always been a "black box" in regards to Entropia loot mechanics not to mention how resources are recycled or idled when consumed in crafting.

Needless to say I am happy to see some variety in my loot and mining finds.

 

[Deemer]

You wrote a large over-amp, which added lot of cost, but minimal extra dmg, so it made your DPP very bad.
DPP affecting composition.
That is the reason for shrap only.

Let me say that sometimes I rely entirely on the Google translator ... for a more specific sentence and I'm not sure that the result is what I want to say. But I trust that people have a sense of humor.

Just to be clear..

* Grindhouse Sleaze (L) - Efficiency 0... return only shrapnels.
Jester D-1 + High mayhem amp, don't remember which one was, but efficiency over 80%+... return only shrapnels.

They was only 2 fast tests, i don't say that this is good for hunt =)

 

[Deemer]

Barbarella + E-Amp 13... also an over amped, but the composition was very good. Of course, due to the low DPP, the loss was greater than normal. But the collected composition for 1 hour was also very good. It looks very over amped weapon, it just have penalty.

 

[Evey]

lol, hope he answers then and we will see if ur prediction is right

If I'm looking at data since 20july when I got my LP100: in 4419576 > out 4412433
Since loot 2.0, I have 11.7kk in and 11.5kk out

 

[Hego Damask]

If I'm looking at data since 20july when I got my LP100: in 4419576 > out 4412433

~99.83%, that is pretty awesome

 

[Mega]

I wonder what a brand new player looter level 1 with 100 ped on their Ped card would make of this discussion.

'Taxi' ?

 

[Evey]

I wonder what a brand new player looter level 1 with 100 ped on their Ped card would make of this discussion.

'Taxi' ?

Hmm, would think probably "fuck! I got Mega as mentor instead of a hunter"

 

[Mega]

Hmm, would think probably "fuck! I got Mega as mentor instead of a hunter"

Then they would find out MegaVolt is one person, one avatar and he really really dislikes cheats. Know what I mean Evey?

 

[Evey]

Then they would find out MegaVolt is one person, one avatar and he really really dislikes cheats. Know what I mean Evey?

No, I'm not sure what you mean, Mega.
If you mean that I share my passion for the game with my wife, then yeah, that is the case and for that I consider myself a damn lucky SOB, that we play together Now, can you stop with this shit? None of your fucking business.

 

[SleePy]

~99.83%, that is pretty awesome

Yea thats amazing and good to see, counting a 3% edge in markup which i think is on the low end counting in possible mayhem reward (we dont know what the new rewards will be). That would be around 130k profit not counting enhancers if used since july.

Also if this huge cycle is enough to determine the average longterm return with that eff and looter lvl having a TT return over 100% should be possible if being higher looter and possibly having a little better eff.

Now having that slightly better eff. doesnt mean it's better if you have to go with lower dps. Youre cycle will be less and your return after markup might actually be less counting time put in.

So it's still possible to make alot of profit from hunting which is good news.

 

[Evey]

[...] not counting enhancers if used since july.

Always running on enh. There are also other costs like L amps, pills etc. but yes, you got the picture. Keep shooting. Eff alone will not bring satisfying results. I had a LP70 before and I'd trade it any day for a bit more dps and a bit lower eff.
I was gonna go for a LP100 or BP110, I find them very close to each other but I had an opportunity to get the LP with some tiers in it to save some time but it baffles me people pay so much for BP/LP70 and none go for the BP110 that has a great mix of all 3 ingredients (dps/efi/dpp)

 

[LavaSparks]

Just to clear some things up:

- dpp has no role in tt return, but it's still essential;
- there's no proof, yet, that the looter is not linear;
- there's no proof of level mob having any connection with the tt return taking looter level into equation (looter having to be above mob level), I don't believe such a thing. I had good results on higher level mobs too. Higher level mobs will definately have much higher volatility so that will automatically make the loot seem worse on a bad run, but loot will also be awesome on a good run. Loot is the same imo, given enough looting events happen.
- players that jump from one mob to another don't loose for someone else's pool as loot is in the looter, not in the mob, area, server w/e.
- there are at least 2 players above 100 looter, I'm not top3

It's equally important to invest in looter as it's important to get the highest effi weapon your budget allows but consistency is more important than looter, efficiency or dpp.

I admire your persistency in trying to knocking some sense into conspiracy heads and nitpickers. It's an act of futility, but + Rep nonetheless

 

[Evey]

I admire your persistency in trying to knocking some sense into conspiracy heads and nitpickers. It's an act of futility, but + Rep nonetheless

Thank you. I try to explain it as clear as possible for the level 1 looter guys with 100 ped on card that encounter conspiracy theories before actual facts. It's our duty if we like this game enough to want for it to grow further.
When I was a noob I was lucky enough to run into some good guys, experienced players (thank you!) that smacked me with the facts when I only had perception and lootius in my head.

 

[SleePy]

I admire your persistency in trying to knocking some sense into conspiracy heads and nitpickers. It's an act of futility, but + Rep nonetheless

I don't agree it a act of futility, sure there will always be some that are super stubborn and believe in their own unrealistic theory.

I for one have learned a lot from this thread. And having Evey who is at the absolute top giving his experience have been invaluable.

Also i think this thread has been very clean, one of the better threads regarding loot in hunting ive seen in a long time..

Now for new and older player, get out there and shoot, there is hope at the end of the rainbow.

And for newer player, play smart, try get skills as cheap as possible, avoid paying to much markup and try to get as much markup loot as possible. Nr. 1 focus when it comes to skills should be looter skills. Also even though i think its been established in this thread that hunting over your looter lvl doesnt come with penalty, hunting smaller means more kills, and thus more looting and that will increase your looter profession faster.