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MA help us protect noobs who sweat from resellers!

it is not an exploit, its a feature :wise:
 
Like I made clear earlier, I do think whiners should deposit if they don't like to sweat. On the other hand, there are many people also out there paying attention, not causing problems, and generally working very hard to get their 1000 bottles of sweat.

I want to thank all of those, because it is hard work, and even though it is not paid well, and personally I couldn't buy any (no PED, guiding is unpaid), I know how difficult it can be, so all of you got my respect, and I hope you enjoy doing these things a bit too, and if you end up doing other activities as well, remember how it was for you.

As for another category, the ones not causing problems because it points out attention to their sweatbots/2nd/3rd/etc accounts, please log out all of them, and make supportcases, where you admit your crimes (breach of contract, for one) and ask for support to delete all your accounts. Really, you're much better off in the real world taking a job at a fast-food-restaurant or something.
 
If you asked around, or ask someone you know ingame, they would probably say that the common price of sweat is around 0.5-0.6.

Knowing that, there will be an option: Hang on to the sweat until someone buys it at 0.5 at least, or sell it at le't say 0.4 or even 0.3 and take the loss for getting the cash immediately.

Same stands for things like wools/oils: You either spend time gathering it until you have enough to put it on auction, you go look for a trader and get a slightly lower markup, or you go TT it right away and get the cash in your hand.

For people who think sweaters are lazy and should deposit instead: I think it's like any other profession. Also, though it's tedious, it's perfect to begin with, to learn how mobs/animals work, to gain initial skills (sure sweat gathering is useless but evade and agility is priceless in the long run) and to learn trade. Even if you only ever sweated 200 units before doing the first deposit, you have gained free ingame experience how stuff works.
 
No-one says, all sweaters should deposit, basically we need them, because i definately don't want to sweat.

But sweaters who complain about bad prices should get off. As many wrote in this topic: it's free and they are not forced to sell.
 
Lack of patience and those not wanting to cut into their profit margins are to blame

Actually when you look at this debate between sweater and reseller there is actually two sides of the same coin, and neither side is really good to say the least..

Let's start on the sweater side.

For the sweater, they want instant gratification and they want it now. They don't care what they sell their sweat for, they want the money so they can get into the game. But what they lack the most is in fact patience.

Yes you heard me.. Patience

Think of it this way. You're spending 2 or maybe 3 hours of your time to get 1000 bottles of sweat.. all for about 5 PED. yet you might be patient enough and have a buyer come along and offer you a price better than 0.5...

Also I like to look at my sweat that I gather as sort of a savings account. Each K of sweat worth at least the potential of 5 PED per K..
So in the end, every K I gather (a total of 2.5 to 3 hours) is worth at least 5 PED, maybe 6 if I find the right buyer.

So to the sweater, I say this. Be Patient. but if you want to have self graatification then sell it off quick for less than 5 PED and learn that you'll have to sweat some more if you want to buy that gun with ammo

Now as for the reseller, I say this.. Cut the sweaters a little break..

They're out there gathering sweat (and using their time which is money) to make you happy.. The least you could do is reciprocate and offer instead of 0.4 maybe 0.45.. I'm not saying you should be generous, but you shouldn't be so arrogant to think that you're better than the person who's offering their sweat to you (which is their time)

In short the sweaters point their fingers at the resellers and vice versa, yet both overlook the fact that sweating is a symbiotic relationship..without sweaters, resellers would have no purpose and without resellers, sweaters woul have to have the patience of Job to get what they want..

In short, Can't we all get along?

Guess not..

Ben Coyote a.k.a. "The Blind sniper"
 
  • Newcommers (when choosing not to deposit or are not able to) often turn to sweating.
  • Amongst those newcommers are people who do not have the patience to learn about the game/virtual universe. (I call them noowbies, newbies who act as noobs)
  • Those people mostly care about being able to 'play' the game without depositing, thus they need funds.
  • Those peope often turn to sweating as it is one of the quitest ways to earn funds. (PED/PEC)
  • Those people often want to sell their ammased sweat as soon as possible and, as a consequence, often choose to sell their sweat to sweat resellers or people who seek to buy sweat for 'lower prices'.
  • Those people get frustrated after a while when they realize their funding does not offer them much possibilities at being able to 'play' (except for the sweating, which they might not regard as 'playing') the game without depositing.

So far my analysis of the sweater's side of the story. Comment as you choose

* Noobs are a tale of every game
* Some people are not very patient
* Some people tend to get greedy
* Some people tend to exploit others

In the end, who is really to blame? Patience, knowledge and understanding go a long way in everyday/general activities (in real life or EU)
 
Interesting

While I don't think removing player vs player (direct trade) is the way to go about it, an idea did come to mind that maybe selling the Sweat should be auction free?

What better way to help a new player along the very long road of EU by making the selling of Sweat free on the auctions.

I don't think this tiny little item being sold free would have a great impact on the auction also, but if so maybe allowing only a certain amount of sales to be done at a time, so no more then 5 for free at any given time and only for sweat.


where here is he wish list I submitted

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/wishlist/176803-helping-new-players.html
 
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actualy with no fee, some resellers would jump on it. Good for the newcome who is selling, bad for me since i use mind essence.
 
I have to Agree

Alice said:
several problems

first of all, say you have a fresh newbie, just arrived
he sweats and sweats, then has something and wants to sell
but cant to another player and has to do via auction

where does he get the fee from?
should he deposit first so he can sell the sweat?

another problem is, which is a bit harder to grasp, is that 5 ped isnt necessarily bad, it depends on the time you invested

say you sweat dunno, 300 sweat in an hour, so say 900 in 3 hours which you can sell, for the sake of it easier figures, to a sweat reseller for 5 ped

the other alternative is that you would go with your 900 sweat to PA and wait there til someone pays 8 ped for you
the question is now, how long does this take

if it takes 3 hours, you had totally spent 6 hours to get 8 ped
if you had sweated those 3 hours as well and sold to the same sweat reseller from before, you had had 10 ped, 2 ped more

don't get me wrong, i dont like sweat resellers that much, but there can be a point when it is useful to get it

the other problem there is, what does MA have to do with it at what price newbies are willing to sell
if some value their time for 5 ped, others for 8, thats great

so the suggestion about sweat resellers and exploiting newbies id like to make is, (which by the way applies to most others things too)
if you dont like the price, dont sell (or buy) it

what i dont understand especially about sweaters, is that they are so hasty to sell their sweat

you say yourself, the ammo doesnt last for long and they sweat all day long for it
why they can't spend more time waiting til maybe a better price appears i dont know
but that is up to the individual
Click to expand...


If you dont like the price, dont sell. You can wait. I also dont understand how resellers get there first? It was the sweaters who sold to the resselers? So what about telling noobies to not sell extremely cheap? I think thats a more important point.
 
ianopolos said:
MA help us find a way to prevent exploiting of noobs and their hard spend time in sweating.

!
Click to expand...

people, cmon, switch MA with God and u understand that this is a prair of dispair, and not a whine ;-)

Posted via Mobile Device
 
join the fight

Attention! Any Newcomer or Freelancer, who makes his/her living by sweating, is encouraged to join "Sweater's Trade Union" Society; I am The Leader and i have nice plans to develop ideas that will bring more profit for the sweaters and stabilize the situation with resellers! I believe, sweat resellers are a bad business!

Notice to the Buyers! If you use Mind Essence, then you are using a luxury service, so you MUST pay what is ASKED, not what you decide to throw some bones to hard-work sweaters!

Anyways, i have a plan, good ideas to start with - come, join
let's
DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!
instead of comments and dissapointment
 
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so you just post irrelevant spam in topics

xX Gently Xx said:
very inspiring - i'll sweat myself for this 'luxury'

Posted via Mobile Device
Click to expand...

care to add something that is actually relevant to the original topic ?

or maybe you need to read the initial 1st post once again, obviously you can't scroll up in your "mobile device" lol
 
JackyHorror said:
If you use Mind Essence, then you are using a luxury service, so you MUST pay what is ASKED, not what you decide to throw some bones to hard-work sweaters!
Click to expand...

My guess is that most occasional ME users buy ME from auction or a trader since getting a small amount of nexus to refine 500 sweat or so can be expensive - and buying from auction means paying the price asked.
 
JackyHorror said:
Anyways, i have a plan, good ideas to start with - come, join
let's
DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!
instead of comments and dissapointment
Click to expand...

How about helping your cause by starting to see things in a more objective way and showing at least some traces of professional and respectful behavior?

You do not help the new players by misrepresenting the market situation and opportunities they have.

Yes, I do think the sweaters should get a decent price for their sweat. But the buyers' interests count too, so there is a limit to what you can expect to get on a regular basis.

Why are you telling new players they can get 6-8ped in Twin Peaks? - Yes, sometimes that is possible. But I have also seen players waiting for hours to get a good deal, lowering their sweat price to 5.5 and being told that noone buys for that.



JackyHorror said:
Notice to the Buyers! If you use Mind Essence, then you are using a luxury service, so you MUST pay what is ASKED, not what you decide to throw some bones to hard-work sweaters!
Click to expand...

Oh, really? What about some respect for other players' interests as well?

Tell me one convincing reason why a depositor, who pays money to play, should accept that you think you can tell him how much of his money he has to spend for that virtual commodity.

And while you are at it, you might also try to think of a reason why he should do business with someone who is treating him as inferior.

Two days ago I heard another interesting argument at TI Castle, where a player said that in his opinion the price of an unlimited free resource should not be higher. Any valid counter arguments?



The point is that I do think that the new players and sweaters should get support and that you are doing them a disservice with your continuing aggressive behavior, abusive language and disrespect for other players.

You are more likely to hurt your cause than help it, if you do not change that.

As a trader you ruin your business by acting in a completely unprofessional way and insulting (potential) buyers.

As a society leader you discredit your own society and its members as well. Are you completely oblivious to the fact that players who decide they have had enough of your antics might also decide not to do any business with members of your society in the future?
 
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JackyHorror said:
care to add something that is actually relevant to the original topic ?

or maybe you need to read the initial 1st post once again, obviously you can't scroll up in your "mobile device" lol
Click to expand...

my mobile device allows me to scroll, but thx for concern.
I contributed something valuable by showing u the reaction of any normal sweat buyer after reading your post. mind essence is a luxery? I personally will never buy any sweat from u or ur soc members because u don't have the brains of Jimmy Hoffa to pull this idea off, nor the manners of a businessman to to talk any kind of business. I'd rather buy sweat from someone who understand how market economy works, and to whom I'd like to help by paying a bit more, and not because I'm obliged by some weird dude with all kinds of issues. yes, this is how I call what u call "throwing dog a bone".


Posted via Mobile Device
 
JackyHorror said:
care to add something that is actually relevant to the original topic ?

or maybe you need to read the initial 1st post once again, obviously you can't scroll up in your "mobile device" lol
Click to expand...

What about stopping to bitch other ppl for having different opinions or doing something different than you think it should be ? Your behaviour towards other ppl will allways be mirrored back to you and more likely noone will take you serious by showing that behavoiur imho. Trying to pread neg reps in ppls constucive posts with comments you give them doesn't help much either... when i look at your neg rep bar i get the feeling, the more you walk the path you choose - the more likely you are to fail. Anyone may express whatever he likes to without beeing bitched that way imho.

Back on topic:
The sweat price is allways the compromise between the price the buyer is willing to pay and the price the seller is willing to give the sweat away. Imho that brings me to the conclusion: No matter what the price is seller and buyer negotiated - it's allways right.

Regards
 
All i want to say is;
Some ppl use the deposit argument but lets not forget there are kids playing without a visa and not evryone is capable of making a deposit.

KungPow
 
JackyHorror said:
care to add something that is actually relevant to the original topic ?

or maybe you need to read the initial 1st post once again, obviously you can't scroll up in your "mobile device" lol
Click to expand...

And then, with that 'lol' all seriousness in your post disappears. Since you add a rather irrelevant post, then show that you don't really care and don't bother backing up your argument. Therefor, your idea is undermined. And so is mine.

Kungpow said:
All i want to say is;
Some ppl use the deposit argument but lets not forget there are kids playing without a visa and not evryone is capable of making a deposit.

KungPow
Click to expand...

Everyone is capable of making a deposit, and they're all reasonable or not. Unless you live in a totalitarian regime, with no way of depositing, you probably would be partially, or fully restricted in your playing experience. Half the methods just involve a simple walk up the street, or a block or two. Since prepaid gift cards by MasterCard and Visa can double as credit cards, there's one option. Another way to get this if impossible is to transfer money to a PayPal account and buy these cards online. You can use the same with uKash which can be bought in stores or online. It's all a matter of how much initiative you have.

If you sweat to earn PED's, but claim not to have a method of depositing because it takes 'too long', then rethink your comment. Sweating is easily a more time consuming chore, so you'll save time and money by going out and making a deposit.

===================================================

As for my verdict on sweating, it's lucky that it's as high as it is. With a current value that's still rather high for the use, newbies are lucky to get 5 peds. Mind essence is hard to find an economical use for, other than TP'ing, so it's rather interesting to have the price still remain so high.

So, in a bombardo shell: Sweaters, you guys are lucky to be getting ~5 PEDs. Don't push the envelope.

- Regards,
Chris
 
Kungpow said:
ok this piss me off , all i have to say
Click to expand...

Please calm down everyone.

I guess 95% of the players by now know that:

0) You can't get kill mobs and get loot (or mine or craft) without having ingame money, PEDs. You are free to do things like exploring/going on TP-runs and chat/socializing, and try to "work" and get things like sweat and stones.

0a) Loots/mining deposits aren't free gifts from MA. The base (TT) value of the loots roughly comes from the ammo spent, so don't ask for "free stuff" or "half of your loots" because the loots are paid for by the hunter. There are a few things that you can get for free from MA; things like sweat and stones, but those have almost no TT value and have to be sold to another player to have a real value. There is an exception: Free oil from oil rig do have TT value, but the oil rig is in the middle of a pvp enabled area and there are usually other people around who also want the oil...

1) Don't expect to make a living by playing, unless you are really lucky or you really know what you are doing. If you want to go for trading, you need to start to be sochal, and look for information. There are thousands of players out there probably trying to make a profit aswell.

2) Depositing, even as low as 10 USD (97 ped), is a good way if you want a jump start. It will give you pixie armor, weapon (opalo), healing tool and plenty of ammo.

2b) Even if you deposit/plan to deposit, sweating is a good way to learn the basics in the game: "Interaction" with mobs, trading; and you get basic "in game" skills for free that will make hunting easier (evading skills, agility).

3) If you can't deposit, you can still earn money ingame, typically by sweating and selling the sweat. Or look for fruit/stones/... . Be aware though that making a living on sweat gathering is tough and it will take several hours/days before you have enough for weapon+ammo.

4) Trading is a part of sweating, you should learn the market of sweat to be successful. To sell sweat(/fruit/dung/...), it's good if you know your way around, so if there is noone buying sweat where you are (like sweat camp), you can go to Port Atlantis, Neas Place and Twin Peaks to look for buyers. Let's say sweat price currently is 5 +/- 1 PED (4-6 PED) for each 1K (1000 units).

5) It is easier for you as beginner if you join a bigger "society" (group of people). Typically, joining a society makes it easier to get onto teamhunting, and there is sometimes a trader in the society who can buy your loots, and maybe a mindforce user (or sweat trader) who can buy your sweat.

5a) There is currently no in-game working mentor system. There are official guides though, usually at Port Atlantis and/or Treasure Island Castle.

6) Imagine Marco coming to Neas Place and zapping all people with his "marco gun" who shout "Buying sweat" lol
 
Kungpow said:
ok this piss me off , all i have to say
Click to expand...

Is my undeniable logic getting to ya? Hehe :p I don't see how you would get irritated by this, since it is pretty possible. And last time I checked, Belgium was not a tyrannical regime.

================================================

Entropia is dynamic, so there's always going to be something different. And like the old adage to something goes: The only constant is change. With EU this is a pretty concrete fact, since every now and then you see newbies getting towers, or people discovering new items. The same applies to sweating and/or depositing. You can either take the easy way and deposit, or go out and sweat. Either way, both are good, since you either get a lot of skills doing it, or you have more money available on hand. Sweating is not a job. It's making money from other people who actually deposit. In reality, flea markets, eBay and Entropia aren't all that different. People can buy and resell things to make a small profit. Except Entropia is the only place of these three, and potentially many others, that allows people to profit from nothing.

Adding sweat to the auction would eventually destroy the market, then rip out all chances for noobs to go easy. All it takes is a small group of people to knock down the markup, and force sweaters to sell at a lower price. And of course some people are going to sell at a low rate anyways, still allowing resellers to profit. So what you're asking is that MA gives up potential to earn money, so that you can eliminate the middleman. There is always a middleman. Another constant which is probably only in theory ever going to disappear.

Verdict: Sweating is a gameplay element. You are asking to get money from people depositing for your sweat. In other words, you're complaining that people should pay their real money for your virtual gain.

Kudos to you who can ONLY sweat and get ahead in the game. I applaud you. But if you can't, because you don't have the funds, don't regard the resellers as evil. There's not much that we can do to get rid of them. Getting rid of resellers would get rid of either trading, or would get rid of sweat selling. This would force people to refine their sweat to ME, or just not sell ANYTHING.

- Your's truly,
Chris

P.S. On a side note, if any of you disagree with the aforementioned post, this is merely conjured from the more rational side of my mind. Fighting it would be fighting opinion. .'. This is not 1984.
 
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i didn't even bother reading your post but, there are ppl that arn't capable of depositing,

in belgium as a minor its not possible to get a credit card and im sure not all parents agree to make a depo

so if u think depositing is a option for all people u need to get out more
 
Hmm

Well some people can depo, others cant. Prepaid cards are a good idea for minors by the way :). Sweating is a crucial element of the game. Its important, but Mind Ark shouldnt be giving free money away. Then they would go bankrupt?
 
Kungpow said:
in belgium as a minor its not possible to get a credit card and im sure not all parents agree to make a depo

so if u think depositing is a option for all people u need to get out more
Click to expand...

And when you read my earlier post, you may have noticed one word that stood out: Prepaid. It is also the case here in Canada, how you cannot get a credit card if you're a minor. Prepaid cards are available all over the place. Like I said, there's many other potential options. Even having money in a paypal account is easy to begin with.

But if you don't find enjoyment playing EU, if you spend your time sweating to earn PED's, then maybe this isn't the game for you. (Not speaking to only you, KungPow)

But KungPow, I did see that you had earned a rather large sum of PED's just trading. I applaud you for that, since you managed to make the most of your PED's. Maybe you don't need to deposit after all :p
 
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Im just trying to defend the ppl that can't depo, most of the time kids that dont have the verbal skill to defend themselfs against some arrogant players that think they have a answer to all probs. (depo argument etc)

Im not trying to insult you, its a attitude i find with some verteran players, prob computer geeks that need some daylight. I irritate myself with it, also the disinformation and bad guides.

Its this arrogant attitude that creates a barrier between the veterans and new, unexperianced players, most of the time too young and unskilled to make it in EU. This builds up frustration with those ppl and its NOT helping.

If a kid of 12 asks me what he should do instead of sweating because his parents wont make a deposit ill refer them to your post, or maybe not :)

StatikNode said:
But if you don't find enjoyment playing EU, if you spend your time sweating to earn PED's, then maybe this isn't the game for you. (Not speaking to only you, KungPow)
:p
Click to expand...

True im quite bored and i don't need to sweat or deposit but i wont give up on the game, now i find a challenge in the social aspect and maybe later ill get back in it and shoot my gun again or do something else.
 
Kungpow said:
i didn't even bother reading your post but, there are ppl that arn't capable of depositing,

in belgium as a minor its not possible to get a credit card and im sure not all parents agree to make a depo

so if u think depositing is a option for all people u need to get out more
Click to expand...

In Belgium you can get paysafecards and last time I checked even a minor can buy them. Smallest one is 10 Euros.
Also normally a minor is not allowed to play EU without the consent of his parents.
 
Kungpow said:
If a kid of 12 asks me what he should do instead of sweating because his parents wont make a deposit ill refer them to your post, or maybe not :)
Click to expand...


1. Age Requirements

If You are under the age of 18 please note -

To qualify as an Entropia Universe Participant, You must be at least 18 years old. If You are not 18 years old but You are at least 13 years old, You may still apply for an Entropia Universe Account, but only with approval of Your parent or guardian.


This is not a minors' game and it is not very surprising that there are younger players who may not feel comfortable in this community.

And even if the behavior you describe actually is arrogant, please keep in mind that an adult player will most probably assume that you are another adult player who has the life experience to deal with that.
 
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