map redesign, map redesign

[Wollongong]

First of all, I'd like to compliment Kim for the insight he is giving in the redesign process of Athena. It's good to see that FPC is giving information in an early stadium, allowing us to (at least have the feeling that we) contribute to the whole process.

But secondly... why? I spent the first years in this game getting to know the landscape, the maps, untill a point where I managed to find my way around without having to check the map too often. Then came VU 10.0, with an entirely new map. I still haven't found my way around this new planet yet (well, not everywhere). Is there some sort of important reason that it needs to be redesigned, or is this just a matter of keeping the design guys busy, so that new screenshots can continue to find their way into the forums and other marketing channels?

Why redesign the map again? How many times will places be redesigned? Are we doomed to be wandering the planet not knowing where we are untill eternity ends...?

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

My 2PEC:
The layout of Athena Spaceport is horrible, so anything is an improvement in my opinion. Secondly, some areas have bad textures (check the ground at some places, it is really bad), overlapping terrain, weird "cliffs", etc that needs to be taken care of in order to give the land some use and actually make people go there...

I personally hope that after this redesign, some work will be put into fixing those things (as mentioned above) all over (without necissarily redesigning areas) and expanding/rebuilding cities like Minopolis and Nymphtown



EDIT: To give you an example on where layout/design is good, check Chugs Hideout (my personal favourite) and to give you an example where textures are bad, check the ground between Nymphtown and Minopolis

 

[Stave]

They have been redesigning the vu10 areas since it started because vu10 calypso is poor quality and badly designed, where have you been all this time? Marco and hanne explained this years ago.

 

[Wollongong]

Well...july 2010-july 2011 I did go on a break, that I must admit. Just get the feeling this is more money going to eye-candy, while there are so many structural and -in my eyes- more important issues at hand.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Well...july 2010-july 2011 I did go on a break, that I must admit. Just get the feeling this is more money going to eye-candy, while there are so many structural and -in my eyes- more important issues at hand.

Such as?

(remember that gameplay systems, bug fixes, etc are made by other teams than artistic things like landscapes)

 

[Stave]

Well...july 2010-july 2011 I did go on a break, that I must admit. Just get the feeling this is more money going to eye-candy, while there are so many structural and -in my eyes- more important issues at hand.

What else do you expect the artists to do other than fix design issues and bring visual quality up to a high standard?

 

[Wollongong]

Such as?

(remember that gameplay systems, bug fixes, etc are made by other teams than artistic things like landscapes)

Like I said elsewhere:
you can reduce the size of the artistic team and increase another team, or you could even use the money saved to increase the overall loot return.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Like I said elsewhere:
you can reduce the size of the artistic team and increase another team, or you could even use the money saved to increase the overall loot return.

What if the artistic team is only 1-2 people?

 

[Stave]

And what about when they need the artist team for future new content?

 

[Art Jennifer]

Keep the game fresh, change is to welcomed !

 

[Wollongong]

What if the artistic team is only 1-2 people?

Parttime employment

And what about when they need the artist team for future new content?

Fair point. Temporarily "rent them out" to other companies

Keep the game fresh, change is to welcomed !

Not if it is change for the sake of change, while critical issues are unadressed (or not swiftly enough).

So far, I have not seen many replies (Nighthawk) which actually illustrate why this investment is a needed one at this point in time.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Not if it is change for the sake of change, while critical issues are unadressed (or not swiftly enough).

So far, I have not seen many replies which actually illustrate why this investment is a needed one at this point in time.

The Athena Spaceport layout renders the place almost unplayable and there is no reason for anyone to ever go there. This redesign will hopefully change that problem.

 

[LaraD]

Such as?

(remember that gameplay systems, bug fixes, etc are made by other teams than artistic things like landscapes)

There are a thousand other things that can be don by an artist which effects gameplay way more than aother landscape overhaul:
- New cloths
- new mobs or improve exisiting ones (still most of them cause eye cancer)
- individual designs for guns
- Everything gfx-related to avatars: Entropia has the ugliest avatars in any MMO
- individual hosungings
many more

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

There are a thousand other things that can be don by an artist which effects gameplay way more than aother landscape overhaul:
- New cloths
- new mobs or improve exisiting ones (still most of them cause eye cancer)
- individual designs for guns
- Everything gfx-related to avatars: Entropia has the ugliest avatars in any MMO
- individual hosungings
many more

I agree with the clothing and guns I guess... they are already improving old mobs though (check dev posts and you'll see previews of Armax Bull and Boorum Female)... as for housings, I have heard a lot of complaints about there already being too many estates ingame. Maybe wait with adding more until playerbase grows? (after that tho, some nice floating houses... container houses near Chugs... shipwreck estates in Billys... Minopolis rebuilding... etc)

As for the "ugliest avatars in any MMO" I really disagree also, they have mentioned they are working on hair physics (MindArk system, not Calypso) so I assume that any avatar update would come after that

 

[Magyar_Republic]

I think any aesthetic change that encourages use of a server which we pay for through our funds that may not otherwise be used is a good change.

If this particular change results in the user base of the Athena server going from 6-12 users an hour to 100+ users an hour we will get our money's worth out of the particular unit, justifying its continued operation. We will also take load off other more popular units, allowing for easier user base expansion. A simple redesign of the map is a cheap and effective way to make this happen.

 

[Jennson]

What else do you expect the artists to do other than fix design issues and bring visual quality up to a high standard?

Fix Performance of 3d-modells taking too much resouces on rendering, maybe the same with textures. But yes basically that'S a design issue, too.

 

[remontoire]

I posted a damn long post on things to improve in that other thread that went over the rainbow bridge, but anyways, I will repeat the key parts (for me) that I do remember:

• visually differentiate sib faps, both regular vs adapted / adusted and weaker from stronger
• visually differentiate different armor plates, not just unlimited vs limited right now

It is IMHO working very well for enhancers. Could of course be applied to other tools using the same model too. Unfortunately I can't remember what other stuff i suggested ... I guess those ideas are now gone. Sucks.

 

[Stave]

Fix Performance of 3d-modells taking too much resouces on rendering, maybe the same with textures. But yes basically that'S a design issue, too.

Yeah, which supposedly get sorted in the map redesign's...

 

[Nobleone]

The clue may be in the name. Athena SPACEPORT!

So why not make it useful as a spaceport? When entering or leaving Calypso atmosphere it must/can only be done from Athena Spaceport (and hangers when they finally get finished).

And while they are doing that let's also have some vehicular restrictions in all town centres. Make a single designated parking area for all towns for quad, vtol, hummer etc and make the avatars walk/run the 100metres to town centre.

This would create the impression of a thriving community when newcomers see a steady stream of people moving between town centres and parking area.

 

[crazy]

Why not fix the new islands first, they seem to swallow up everybodys memory and cause lots to crash out of the game, i think changing around areas that arn't used much is a waste of resources when other area's are in need of attention.

But i like the spaceport the way its is, can be nice to find a quiet area to go do some crafting or to just have a look around, we need some empty places to go and be alone

 

[Spawn]

There is a bigger issue here: This is a virtual world, and we get to like the virtual world as it is. We go places and explore them. Then they become a part of us.
Like port atlantis was in 9.4 or port atlantis was in vu10 or port atlantis is in vu 12. We have had to adjust to port atlantis 3 times already. You tend to miss what's gone. the yellow brick wall in 9.4, the lit way to camp swamp in vu 10.
Now with a complete overhaul of athena.. what will be left standing? or will it simply be completely erased and replaced by something completely new? New doesnt mean improved, it means we have to say goodbye to a city that will never return the way it looks now. Like hadesheim, like minopolis etc etc etc etc.
I cannot understand that Mindark doesnt get that a place becomes our home after we visit it.

 

[Magyar_Republic]

There is a bigger issue here: This is a virtual world, and we get to like the virtual world as it is. We go places and explore them. Then they become a part of us.
Like port atlantis was in 9.4 or port atlantis was in vu10 or port atlantis is in vu 12. We have had to adjust to port atlantis 3 times already. You tend to miss what's gone. the yellow brick wall in 9.4, the lit way to camp swamp in vu 10.
Now with a complete overhaul of athena.. what will be left standing? or will it simply be completely erased and replaced by something completely new? New doesnt mean improved, it means we have to say goodbye to a city that will never return the way it looks now. Like hadesheim, like minopolis etc etc etc etc.
I cannot understand that Mindark doesnt get that a place becomes our home after we visit it.

I dunno. I tried getting a bunch of people to move to Athena a while back. It was a topic of discussion on my soc boards.

The general consensus was that they would love to use the town. It's a pretty town and the aesthetics were very majestic. But the society rejected using the spot as a home base because ultimately they almost unanimously thought it was completely useless as a TP.

Home is great, as long as someone lives there. If its just empty though it's not home at all. It's not really much of anything.

 

[crazy]

I dunno. I tried getting a bunch of people to move to Athena a while back. It was a topic of discussion on my soc boards.

The general consensus was that they would love to use the town. It's a pretty town and the aesthetics were very majestic. But the society rejected using the spot as a home base because ultimately they almost unanimously thought it was completely useless as a TP.

Home is great, as long as someone lives there. If its just empty though it's not home at all. It's not really much of anything.

I think it would be nice if when you return from space you landed there, i dont understand why they chose PA, after all they named it a spaceport, why not use it for its function lol

 

[Wollongong]

There is a bigger issue here: This is a virtual world, and we get to like the virtual world as it is. We go places and explore them. Then they become a part of us.
Like port atlantis was in 9.4 or port atlantis was in vu10 or port atlantis is in vu 12. We have had to adjust to port atlantis 3 times already. You tend to miss what's gone. the yellow brick wall in 9.4, the lit way to camp swamp in vu 10.
Now with a complete overhaul of athena.. what will be left standing? or will it simply be completely erased and replaced by something completely new? New doesnt mean improved, it means we have to say goodbye to a city that will never return the way it looks now. Like hadesheim, like minopolis etc etc etc etc.
I cannot understand that Mindark doesnt get that a place becomes our home after we visit it.

That's my point exactly, but perhaps much better worded.
I miss crossing the water in front of PA Mall to get to the bustling newbie-sweatcamp

 

[Stave]

In the real world things change, the world adapts and moves on, this is just a chance to do just that.

Like how the hades server overhaul was used to fuel a event, and the golf course overhaul was used to create a natural disaster of a volcano erupting.

Things need to change so the world stays fresh and doesnt become stale and boring.

 

[Easy]

Well, the concept of map redesign is not inherently wrong, but why do it to Athena which is one of the few unique and interesting looking places around ?

There are plenty of boring lookalike TP locations on Calypso that could do with a bit of a makeover. (Remember old Minopolis ? It was unique and had character and got bulldozed into pretty much a dump )

As far as I'm concerned, Athena maybe needs a bit of work to make it easier to get around, maybe add some open-air stalls ( perhaps you could offer the opportunity for some stallholders currently elsewhere to move here if they feel they're in a trading-doldrums-area ? ) and make it the space travellers arrival point ( as suggested by numerous others ) - it would be far more useful and still retain its look.

Going from the map Kim posted, it's going to become some sort of canyon-nightmare - you could put that anywhere...

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Well, the concept of map redesign is not inherently wrong, but why do it to Athena which is one of the few unique and interesting looking places around ?

You haven't travelled that much, have you? there are plenty of unique locations on Calypso if you just look around a bit

Anyways, how do you know Athena won't keep its looks anyways?

Going from the map Kim posted, it's going to become some sort of canyon-nightmare - you could put that anywhere...

It's not like the gameplay/layout could get much worse than it is now...

 

[Easy]

You haven't travelled that much, have you? there are plenty of unique locations on Calypso if you just look around a bit

...

Meant city/town -wise.
Only Athena and PA look really "futuristic". And I'm not saying it couldn't use a little tweaking to make life easier, but I feel like that could easily be done without major rework of the entire area. Just my 2c

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Meant city/town -wise.
Only Athena and PA look really "futuristic". And I'm not saying it couldn't use a little tweaking to make life easier, but I feel like that could easily be done without major rework of the entire area. Just my 2c

To be honest, Athena Spaceport needs to be remade completely, not just "tweaked" a bit. Of course it should retain its architectural style, but its layout is completely useless and huge changes are needed to make it actually work

 

[mastermesh]

Booths were moved from Hadeshiem to Corinth a while back... Why not do similar with all the places like Omegaton, Sakura and Genesis, and just move all the buildings in those locations to Athena/EOS suburbs? This would create a sprawling city... It was promised in the 2007 Q&A that more shops would come to these cities, so since that never happened, why not just put them all together in one location so there is at least a shopping district that's worth visiting other then the malls... a place people will want to move to and live in the apartments at... a true virtual 'community' - OMG! The C word... so then take those overhanging things at Athena and put the hangers from all over the planet there too... make it a real place worth visiting for all the folks in game.