Mayhem weapons: a value guess

[Msturlese]

EDITED
MA ALTERED DOME RARE TOKEN REQUIREMENTS AND SOME RARE TOKEN REQUIREMENTS FOR WEAPONS
THE VALUES BELOW ARE NOT ACCURATE AS PER THE NUMBER OF TOKENS AND FOR RARES.
I DONT ALTER THE POST BECAUSE SOME ANSWER REFER TO THE OLD VALUES
NANO BLADES PRICE IS HIGHER, SB90 AND LP120 IS SOME LOWER DUE TO LOWER REQUIREMENTS.

Value perception of Mayhem token and Rare mayhem token is interesting to spot

Let’s take the BARE MINIMUM value that is tied to the wholesaler bid on Mayhem pills.

That value is 0.5 Ped per Mayhem Token.

Then there is the Street price of Pills, that is 0.6 PED per M token, takes time and dedication so that 20% margin commands time dedicated to trade and sell pills, and it is the wholesaler gain (I don’t like the word reseller, in the game “lingo” it is perceived as an insult…..

Based on this I am trying again to derive a “fair price” of the items, BASED ONLY ON TOKEN VALUE and accept that any higher price is related to different factors

RARITY (few available compared to demand)

TIME TO GATHER many token

LUCK FACTOR if more than 1 rare is required

Base of analysis is the current price tag and materials needed to get one off vendor

I divided the pricing in Tiers depending on the number of rare used to pull the item:

Tier 1 based on current offer is priced with 0.75 ped per token and 6000 per rare,

Four items have no market for different reasons: SB90 is bad dpp even if tagged mayhem

Lp120 despite requires less token than lp100 is considered “low eff” as well as BP130.

Sword was considered second best so ppl focused on bigger sister.

Item	Token	Rare		BASE
Sollomate Mayhem Azuro, Adjusted	3.000​	1​	8 / 10	8.250
Mayhem Trauma Amplifier 1	10.000​	1​	0 / 10	13.500
Mayhem Kinetic Amplifier 1	10.000​	1​	0 / 10	13.500
Mayhem Trauma Amplifier 2	11.000​	1​	0 / 10	14.250
A&P Series Mayhem LR-20, Adjusted	11.000​	1​	0 / 10	14.250
Mayhem Trauma Amplifier 3	12.000​	1​	0 / 15	15.000
Mayhem Extender P20	12.000​	1​	0 / 10	15.000
A&P Series Mayhem SB-90, Adjusted	80.000​	1​	0 / 10	66.000
A&P Series Mayhem LP-120	99.000​	1​	10 / 10	80.250
A&P Series Mayhem BP-130	110.000​	1​	9 / 10	88.500
Mayhem Nano-Blade	120.000​	1​	10 / 10	96.000

In Tier 2 prices become messy so I had to split the table and I decided to split them according to the number of token needed to pick an item, based on the current price of the BC-30 that is 28k tokens.

That is same as tier 1 so if I am a seller of items, I need to consider WORST item to pull the BC30 and use that price as the BASELINE of items requiring 2 Rare.

(REMEMBER: I am just finding the BASELINE VALUE; the excess of request is MU perceived or real)

Mayhem Force Mace Basher, Improved	12.000​	2​	7 / 10	21.000
Mayhem Extender P25	15.000​	2​	8 / 10	23.250
Mayhem Trauma Amplifier 4	15.000​	2​	5 / 15	23.250
Mayhem Kinetic Amplifier 4	15.000​	2​	9 / 10	23.250
Mayhem Trauma Amplifier 5	20.000​	2​	0 / 15	27.000
Mayhem Kinetic Amplifier 5	20.000​	2​	4 / 15	27.000
Hedoc Mayhem, Improved	25.000​	2​	4​	30.750
A&P Series Mayhem BC-30, Modified	28.000​	2​	2 / 15	33.000
A&P Series Mayhem LB-40, Improved	43.000​	2​	6 / 10	44.250
Hedoc Mayhem, Modified	45.000​	2​	24​	45.750
Omegaton Mayhem Power Claw Cleaver, Modified	50.000​	2​	10 / 10	49.500

The price of the higher value items is kinda ok using the claw price compared to strong claws and genesis considering it is slightly less powerful and use no ammo and is not tiered up compared to market. I feel confident on the valuation of these as a convergence point.

The higher part of the 2 rare is more interesting, it is based on 3 “ENDGAME” weapons top power, top efficiency, top DPP, BP110, LP100 and nanoblade.

Here the prices are funny or weird, I considered that prices are commanded by “Fear to miss the item” and I used the price offered on forum to extract a 2 rare item for 200k (1.5 ped per token)

That is fair for pistols and show that the “Nano Blade” is bearing a “premium for top weapon in game” of 130.000 Ped… that is the cost to drive a melee Ferrari instead of a peasant BP130 camry

A&P Series Mayhem BP-110, Improved	108.000​	2​	9 / 10	174.000
A&P Series Mayhem LP-100, Modified	117.000​	2​	0 / 12	187.500
Mayhem Nano-Blade, Modified	130.000​	2​	0 / 10	207.000

Last items are the 3 and 4 rare stuff. I applied a 7000 per rare and 0.9 per normal to those due to the fact that for less it is better to pull “less rare” item so ti commands a premium

Also in this case I had to use a proxy that is the “about 80k for refined LP40”of last trade I saw, so a 73k for that one is pretty aligned.

Of course there is demand for BP70 and BC80 so I expect that some premium over the base value is required, it is still coherent as a price the 120kish for untiered bp70 so I feel the model is good.

Sollomate Mayhem Azuro, Augmented	1.500​	3​	4 / 5	22.350
A&P Series Mayhem LP-40, Perfected	50.000​	4​	2 / 7	73.000
Kriegerum Mayhem G.2 Gauss Rifle, Perfected	50.000​	4​	4 / 5	73.000
Hedoc Mayhem, Augmented	54.000​	3​	10 / 10	69.600
Hedoc Mayhem, Perfected	63.000​	4​	2 / 10	84.700
A&P Series Mayhem LR-60, Augmented	77.000​	3​	1 / 9	90.300
A&P Series Mayhem BP-70, Perfected	99.000​	4​	1 / 7	117.100
A&P Series Mayhem BC-80, Augmented	108.000​	3​	0 / 7	118.200
DOA Mayhem Foeripper, Augmented	110.000​	3​	5 / 5	120.000
Mayhem Electric Attack Nanochip 15, Perfected	120.000​	4​	5 / 5	136.000

Thank you for reading so far

I reiterate: This is the BASELINE price to understand value of Mayhem items pulled and to make ones calculation of HOW MUCH he is ready to advance to someone to obtain the item immediately instead of self grinding.

Moreover, it can be used as a tool to account “my storage held tokens” for accounting avatar, it is not a “this is the price, who sell for less is a fool, who sell for more is a “reseller ”

This is just number crunching, the interesting part to read are the comments below…..

 

[Evey]

I won't comment on your baeline, but, on top of that you will add much bigger demand for LR 60, BP70 & BC80 due to players being in that range and not willing to push to higher level in short time.
But the most important thing is, everything above 100 from vendor has the capacity to produce another top item within a year +/- a Mayhem which makes the ROI of minimum 200% (?) IF only baseline is taken into account...

 

[unufain8]

Dont take Evey in consideration, he doesnt know what hes talking about

 

[buckaroobanzai]

I won't comment on your baeline, but, on top of that you will add much bigger demand for LR 60, BP70 & BC80 due to players being in that range and not willing to push to higher level in short time.
But the most important thing is, everything above 100 from vendor has the capacity to produce another top item within a year +/- a Mayhem which makes the ROI of minimum 200% (?) IF only baseline is taken into account...

Your comment is based on two implicit assumptions, which may or may not be valid: 1) that your own time/effort is valued at zero and 2) that there is an infinite number of buyers for these items

 

[Alina]

just delete this shit you wasted your time

 

[Killahbee]

This doesn't make sense

 

[Msturlese]

This doesn't make sense

mayne... but look on forum

Selling: - A&P Series Mayhem BP-110, Improved T3.X

Looted with Discovery. Entropiawiki data was correct at the time of posting, 1357 fruits per shot. This gun is the BP version of the LP-100 Mod. Tier 3.12 currently. RESERVED Terms: - The buyout (BO) is the only accepted price. Peds Only. - If you need a reserve for 1 week, a 5k deposit is...

www.planetcalypsoforum.com

bp110' t 2.99 start bid is 187k..... the calculation for tier 0 is 174k... aligned......

 

[Art Jennifer]

not sure you can apply logic to entropia items pricing.

however I like the concept. Hard to model in but I guess roughly level 60-80 will have more demand and a price premium due to more players at that range..

 

[Evey]

mayne... but look on forum

Selling: - A&P Series Mayhem BP-110, Improved T3.X

Looted with Discovery. Entropiawiki data was correct at the time of posting, 1357 fruits per shot. This gun is the BP version of the LP-100 Mod. Tier 3.12 currently. RESERVED Terms: - The buyout (BO) is the only accepted price. Peds Only. - If you need a reserve for 1 week, a 5k deposit is...

www.planetcalypsoforum.com

bp110' t 2.99 start bid is 187k..... the calculation for tier 0 is 174k... aligned......

Why align tho... it doesn't make any sense... It's all about supply and demand. And also about the ability of people to hold the tokens until enough are gathered and most people don't have the patience so they throw them into the pills so they can instantly sell because some people can only function if they have an "end of day" result, or "end of month" conclusion but they play for years and they seem surprised that some people get too far away from "the norm".

 

[Msturlese]

Evey i TOTALLY agree with you
this is a guideline to maximize returns. ... fast sale there is TT (Pills)
or refine your loot into something valuable (pull an item).
i am mostly interested to a model.. that model tell me that if i find something around 0.9 ped/token and 6k per rare i better buy with PED than grinding.
my time has a value...
take my level example: a BP70 is maxed to me. would i pay it 120k ? 100% YES also soulbound
here comes the RARITY factor and the fact that it is a long lasting item (i would say a forever item for my wallet) and that MANY ppl can use it too
but funny fact,.. no one pulled it.
let's see the price tag as it comes to market... the difference from 120k and the actual price is the premium for the puller. he deserve it whatever it is.

 

[Evey]

Evey i TOTALLY agree with you
this is a guideline to maximize returns. ... fast sale there is TT (Pills)
or refine your loot into something valuable (pull an item).
i am mostly interested to a model.. that model tell me that if i find something around 0.9 ped/token and 6k per rare i better buy with PED than grinding.
my time has a value...
take my level example: a BP70 is maxed to me. would i pay it 120k ? 100% YES also soulbound
here comes the RARITY factor and the fact that it is a long lasting item (i would say a forever item for my wallet) and that MANY ppl can use it too
but funny fact,.. no one pulled it.
let's see the price tag as it comes to market... the difference from 120k and the actual price is the premium for the puller. he deserve it whatever it is.

That the wrong way to put it because you will suffer from lost momentum...
Until now the tokens have been sold between 0.4 and 3 ped (pills to mod nano).
The correct price today is whatever you can convince a potential seller to sell you a BP110 (or w/e you have in mind).
If instead you set your mindset to a fixed price for BP110, you may end up waiting for a few years for them to get to that price... (there are still people waiting @boxes for imp ares to get to 100 ped because they are just too many... or smth).
I tried for a half of year to sell a LP100 T6 for 100k and then prices of weapons more than doubled, BEFORE the new Mayhem format which increased demand even further... which proves EU community has a ~2 year LAG in making the right decisions and adapting fast to the new METAs... so the chances of convincing someone to sell you a weapon with tokens at 1PED are quite low when they can do 2PED pet or even more if MA adds a couple more swords. Just as no LP7 FEN were sold from vendor before BC120 FEN went out of stock... same will happen here, in theory, people will go for best items next which are those bad ass chips.

If you don't plan to quit in a year, or sell everything and switch professions, price of a weapon today compare to what might be in 2 years is irrelevant since you'll get your money back, IF you are active. Casual players, this is not for you.

 

[Rocket192]

this is retarded. tokens are not 0.5 ped/each. jesus christ.

they're 0.9-2 ped/ea depending on what you use them for. OP spent the last 5 hours writing up some shitty analysis. prices are whatever the buyers are willing to pay. nothing more and nothing less.


pills =/= weapons

 

[atomicstorm]

Weapons are worth whatever people pay for them and as such the mayhem tokens and rare tokens are whatever they are based on that - time, effort, reward. Price controlling or manipulating as this thread is attempting to do is... well.. as Alina promptly put.. waste of time. Makes OP look silly and I'm sure that wasn't the intent. Economics doesn't work that way. Simply isn't linear.

 

[Alina]

But i like he puts effort in things but this was not the case.

 

[Deleted member 58836]

It's nice to see some fundamental analysis done on the Mayhem weapon market.

Having a baseline is great.

"The market is a device for transfering money from the impatient to the patient."

Infer from that what you will...

 

[Rocket192]

It's nice to see some fundamental analysis done on the Mayhem weapon market.

Having a baseline is great.

"The market is a device for transfering money from the impatient to the patient."

Infer from that what you will...

cope harder

pills are not static in value and certainly nowhere near comparable to weapons. the only way you get some fundamental analysis is if MA made the tokens tradeable. a lp100 is not going to be the same value as sb-90 adj... token for token. you can't infer implicit value of one object to another object that isn't even of the same kind. that would be like comparing the value of fertilizer to a farmer vs. fertilizer to a dairy farmer. one can use it and the other must find a buyer for it at whatever price he may get.

 

[ProActive Mango]

Just wait 1 year and the world economic will look very dire and prices in entropia will follow, so if your looking for gear in entropia i suggest you wait until the world economic crash.

 

[Nanashana]

Just wait 1 year and the world economic will look very dire and prices in entropia will follow, so if your looking for gear in entropia i suggest you wait until the world economic crash.

Insert link to sky is falling thread.

Yeah this doesn't even start to cover supply and demand. Theres a premium to consider that somone had to sit and grind for 2000 hours to accumulate those 100k mtokens. Not many people have the dedication to do that, and fewer still can afford to leave that much markup sat in storage for a year+ at a time. That on its own makes large amounts of mtokens significantly more valuable than a few k's worth in pills.

 

[Thark]

I always have a hard time understanding Msturlese for some reason but if I understood his post correctly, then I dont get where all the hate is coming from here?

Seems all he wanted was to find a metric to choose which item he should/will pull? Isnt that what everyone who plans on selling it does too? Maybe just guesstimating in their head or intuition but he likes math so he did it that way? Absolute values don't seem to matter much here and he gave alot of those caveats people raise here in his OP too? Seems like one of those "5 apples cost this much and 2 oranges cost 1 apple, how much is a coconut" kinda problems.

Seems fine, not super interesting to me but fine. Nice post to come back to... maybe... later... but I def dont get the hate lol

 

[Msturlese]

i said it in the OP... the itneresting part is below.
@ Thark: Yes this is the "Best pick for my token"
@ Nanashana: it is said.. the Supply and Demand effect is.... ACTUAL PRICE - model above... this is the "get it now" premium, and yes, bigger M tokens saved have a "quantity premium"
@ Power agreed
@ rocket mind your tongue, offend someone else, agree on price of token for better items
@ Alina sometimes my excel calls me.. i cant resist
@ Evey i understand the general idea of "if i get item now i can leverage on its power" but i just try to understand what is the FLOOR PRICE of an item, all the rest is MU

let's see next round of posts

 

[Rocket192]

I always have a hard time understanding Msturlese for some reason but if I understood his post correctly, then I dont get where all the hate is coming from here?

Seems all he wanted was to find a metric to choose which item he should/will pull? Isnt that what everyone who plans on selling it does too? Maybe just guesstimating in their head or intuition but he likes math so he did it that way? Absolute values don't seem to matter much here and he gave alot of those caveats people raise here in his OP too? Seems like one of those "5 apples cost this much and 2 oranges cost 1 apple, how much is a coconut" kinda problems.

Seems fine, not super interesting to me but fine. Nice post to come back to... maybe... later... but I def dont get the hate lol

he's trying to assign an intrinsic value to every item pulled from the broker by assigning said value from another item from the broker. it's faulty logic to suite his own end.

you could take a 450k mod nano sale and assign that token rate to everything, but he's instead going backwards. not just that, but trying to assign some intrinsic value when one already exists is just foolish.


intrinsic value = TT... everything else is just conjectureleaned towards whatever bias you want.

 

[Msturlese]

intrinsic value = TT... everything else is just conjectureleaned towards whatever bias you want.

Correct. i use considered the price under which it CAN NOT GO bcause if it is lower thare are better options.
sky is the limit upward.
and i feel that from the "token owner" position the idea is what is best item i can pick to sell if i dont aneed any ?
these are consistent due to the fact that all are based on token.
of course i will choose the one that pay me more ped per token according to the quantity i have.
i agree with that sentence.

i jsut try to choose best pick
and fromt eh buyer perspective what is the expected MINIMUM price that i need to consider
and the "profit" that is will not have if i decide to grind and jeep the item.

as an example if i grind a BP70 i know that to use it it is like having paid it 118k due to the fact that i did not sell it.
there is nothing more.

i dont set price... demand and offer do.

in the case of Mod nano, am i ready to pay 130k for a "take it now" opportunity ?= i dont.. maybe some one does.

thre is a Mayhem amplifier for 13k in teh market. that is a bargain price to me

a bc30 at 25k? undervalued, if i pull it myself it cost me 33k of opportunity

that is "maximize money value" nothing else.

 

[Evey]

@ Evey i understand the general idea of "if i get item now i can leverage on its power" but i just try to understand what is the FLOOR PRICE of an item, all the rest is MU

It's between you and a potential seller. You can start negotiating at 0.4 (that's how much I buy pills in bulk for) and he can start negotiating from 3 ped per. It's up to you and the potential seller if you guys can meet somewhere. Theoretical price of 0.4 per token doesn't make sense. But you can hope, for sure. Good luck!

 

[Msturlese]

It's between you and a potential seller. You can start negotiating at 0.4 (that's how much I buy pills in bulk for) and he can start negotiating from 3 ped per. It's up to you and the potential seller if you guys can meet somewhere. Theoretical price of 0.4 per token doesn't make sense. But you can hope, for sure. Good luck!

I am not looking to buy one to be fair, it is just to understadn teh numbers, and i wanted to share the thoughts
i stack my token for a bp130 or lp120.... for the time i reach the level i hope to drop a rare and farm the M i need

personally i was used to value them 1 ped each, now i value them 0..90 being the quantity similar to that of amplis

 

[Thark]

It seems like you people are talking about different things. Or maybe I'm still missing the point.

And repeating the same old supply and demand thing doesnt rly help either. OBVIOUSLY people are taking that into consideration. Repeating it over and over in every thread to everyone is just silly.
Like, what do you think how prices settle on specific values? Obviously a seller is looking at alternatives just as much as buyers and both have all sorts of thoughts that adjust prices/expectation etc. And it isnt just "the milk is too expensive so I'll drink tab water, screw the milk makers". You could go for beer or coke, maybe chose another brand, buy in another store, go straight to the farm, fuck it, you could buy a god damn cow too.
In this case OP was just considering what the benefits are for selling milk or maybe cream or making cheese or maybe getting cucumbers and making salads or something fancy. Or, in PEs case, get this gun to sell or that gun to sell. No harm in that. Everyone knows its complicated and "supply & demand" is just a catch all phrase, a short hand for people to communicate.

It just seems silly to criticize OPs attempt to find a baseline comparison by saying: "yeah, but remember, you need to find someone to buy too! And then you need to find a price you both like". I mean, duhhh! I can't imagine sitting in a meeting listening to someones scientific findings on high pressure water what-evers and after the presentation someone raises his hand and goes: "yes, but do keep in mind that water is, in fact, wet!"

I mean if I have 2 rares and 20k tokens, and Item A goes for 10k PED and costs 1 rare and 10k tokens, and Item B goes for 18k PED and costs 2 rares and 20k tokens, then obviously I would get two of Item A to sell. Thats what OP said, no? He just calculated how much Item B would have to sell for in order for it to be worth getting, right? Yeah that gets complicated quickly when the numbers aren't as simple as above and Item A and B are very different and cant easily be compared and yeah, you need to sell the item, yeah you need to find a buyer, yeah prices can change later, yeah some premiums apply, yeah opportunity costs bla bla bla, we could all probably go on for a while and find things to fine tune this, some might be objective and some subjective. OP just chose to publish his thoughts on some kind of base line.

he's trying to assign an intrinsic value to every item pulled from the broker by assigning said value from another item from the broker. it's faulty logic to suite his own end.

you could take a 450k mod nano sale and assign that token rate to everything, but he's instead going backwards. not just that, but trying to assign some intrinsic value when one already exists is just foolish.
...

For example here. That doesnt seem right. At least I understood OP differently. He is saying that: Unless I can get AT LEAST what ever he had as a price for that mod nano, I should get multiples of what ever baseline he applied. See how thats different? Now we could argue about how much sense it makes to, instead of buying a mod nano, to instead buy 2.3456 of something, or if we like the baseline and we'd probably all three come up with different things for that. But broad picture? seems fine to me.

Like I said, seems fine to me, not super duper great, but fine. And now I too spend way to much time on something that seems pretty trivial. You sucked me in!

 

[Evey]

I am not looking to buy one to be fair, it is just to understadn teh numbers, and i wanted to share the thoughts
i stack my token for a bp130 or lp120.... for the time i reach the level i hope to drop a rare and farm the M i need

personally i was used to value them 1 ped each, now i value them 0..90 being the quantity similar to that of amplis

Then instead of the OP you could have asked: what do you guys value your tokens at?

Again, FEN Token platinum was 70 ped each approx when BC120 FEN were in vendor, then dropped to 45 when LP70 were left and then lower when LP70 were sold out.
If MTokens were tradable, they would be 1.5-2, probably, until the best weapons would be out of stock. But because they are not tradable, each player valuates them according to their capacity of getting something out in a reasonable amount of time... Playewrs with high DPS have the upper hand so their tokens are worth a lot more than those players with low dps and insufficient bankroll.

 

[warmdogg]

It’s always nice to see people putting in effort to something they are passionate about.

However is seems like sadly OPs logic is flawed, it’s impossible to find a one size fits all approach to the token values.

The only reasonable way to price tokens is to asses the market for each pull and work backwards. Set targets and contingency pulls and you have a pretty solid baseline to work off of.

 

[Killahbee]

This keeps on getting better

Also, i'll buy any weapon for these unrealistically low prices )

 

[Msturlese]

If an item sells for 400k does not mean that it is a bargain price. the mod nano should cost 20k more than the normal one as per token
the seller that marked up 200k on that was a perfect example of the use of the calculation above.

how to obtain (seller side) most off token
how to value the "take it no" premium from buyer side.

for usual items it is 10...15% difference . for mod nano was 100%.
good for them, iIDGAF of the price one is readyu to spend and this is the problem of all asnwers.

eventually no one understood it is a PROXY tool to spot the intrinsic value, not the guide for market.

ppl purchase what they prefer at the price theuy find suitable
seller pass items over at the price they find good to repay the lack of that item

and different ppl have different ideas of the value... i totally agree that just consensus allow a trade.

what i underline is that the sale of token in tem of pills is like TT items
and that is demonstrated to the fact that you grind tokens in event and buy pills from third party because you DO know that your token (or mine) are worth more than 4 ped.

perception... deception... misleading beliefs, difference of information make a trade.

 

[Evey]

If an item sells for 400k does not mean that it is a bargain price.

It is bargain if you ask me, considering it has 25% more dps than the rest of weapons...

the mod nano should cost 20k more than the normal one as per token
the seller that marked up 200k on that was a perfect example of the use of the calculation above.

Last attempt from me.

The value of items is not "per token" but from what they can offer you. It has nothing to do with the number of tokens listed as price. MA will not determine for you which is more valuable and by exactly how much. Again, refer to the value of Platinum tokens during FEN, 75 PED vs 40 PED.

We value things differently in the community, for example, people completely ignore efficiency value when picking their end game tool, while I would never use those even if payed. But, your valuation is way off in my opinion. You may find a bargain for let's say BP110, when they will all be sold from vendor and if the seller is in a hurry to clear inventory, but your arguments will have 0 value when you will try to convince someone with tokens to sell you at 0.9 PED per when they could sell smth else at 1.75 or 2 or higher...

Tokens don't have a fixed value no matter how much we would try to find one. It's a matter of personal choice and context. Do you have what it takes to pull a good item? Then token is worth 3-4 times the value of pills. There can be no average in this...