MindForce future

[psychnosiz]

Generating money? I think sweating is a method of generating money for someone, I am ready to offer this person a better job - damn if he has even the patience to earn few bucks a day doing sweating I bet he can do anything..

But my main point was that sweating is only MF activity that does not use ME, and it is not very interesting. there could be others ,and it is not required that they "create money out of thin air" - they could be just interesting

Ok, please make me a joboffer then, I dislike sweating but I do have patience. Especially if you can make my pedcount grow without me having to decay anything.

Second ... ME is to MF what ammo is to a gun. If you want to enlarge the possibilities without ME you might as well ask for a dungcatapult without decay. An uncharged mind should not be able to perform more actions or the whole segment of MF will be worthless, not to mention the price of sweat

 

[Manix6]

People have been talking that MF needs updates for a long time ago... MindArk could make lots of great updates and MF would be not so horrible as it is now... Why don't they make any updates? I think it's all because the only (other ways are not as good as this one) way to get free PED is sweating. so if MF would be more useful, then sweat price would be increased, and that means more free PEDs for everyone. And that means, less money for MindArk...

P.S. I hope you understood, because my english is horrible.

But more ped for sweat is everything but a bad thing for MA!

First up if more newbies got say enough ped for an opalo and 1k ammo, how many new player do you know that profited forever from that 1k ammo.

And ma gives away something with a value of 0.01 pecs (?) which then sells for 50 times its real value. Now if you consider that other players pay the markup on items, if you think about it, (there are hundreds of explanations on EF about this and i cant be bothered to explain it again). But so MA needs to generate 0.01 pec back for every 0.5 pecs that particular newbie spends... so 2 pecs in 1 ped. Now i dont know about you, but i dont know many new players who dont loose less then 2 pecs on their first runs.

Now considering Mindforce has much more uses, and the price of sweat rises, MA will need to take less money from sweating players, as the ratio of what they gave to what the player received will decrease. This will also cause an inflated markup for an item that is consumed, and i doubt people would go without tp chips.

So more usage of MF and at a higher cost? how is that not good for MA?

 

[Dawis]

Ok, please make me a joboffer then, I dislike sweating but I do have patience. Especially if you can make my pedcount grow without me having to decay anything.

Second ... ME is to MF what ammo is to a gun. If you want to enlarge the possibilities without ME you might as well ask for a dungcatapult without decay. An uncharged mind should not be able to perform more actions or the whole segment of MF will be worthless, not to mention the price of sweat

But I was kind of searching for those that use sweating for money generation
Ok But if you are serious - there are far more rewarding ways inside EU - if your goal is to make money.

Second.. ME is to ME what ammo is to a gun. But there are several types of ammo right? I am not saying that every new actio or possibility for MF should be gun also. You can not kill using sweating also right?
Ok let us imagine hipotetical MF skill - hipnosis - opening after you have allready some skills..At beggining you could hipnose only small animals with lots of effort. But imagine - hipnose the Atrox Alfa and use it to kill your enemy - sounds fun does it? (of course corpses killed by hipnosed animals should not be lootable)
I am sure there are lot of other fun ideas, that MF could use without using ME or weapons.

Third.. Sweat actually should go down in price.. and the right way to do it for MA is make sweat more easy to get.. thus lets us say - double or quadruple the amount fo sweat you can get in one attempt from animal.. That will make sweat 4x easy to get and eco of MF weapons will increase.
BTW generally i like the idea of dynamic eco - eco that depends of price ofreasource used to produce amo, but I think as long as other weapons use tt amo, it will be difficult to compete against.

 

[MoZa93]

But more ped for sweat is everything but a bad thing for MA!

First up if more newbies got say enough ped for an opalo and 1k ammo, how many new player do you know that profited forever from that 1k ammo.

And ma gives away something with a value of 0.01 pecs (?) which then sells for 50 times its real value. Now if you consider that other players pay the markup on items, if you think about it, (there are hundreds of explanations on EF about this and i cant be bothered to explain it again). But so MA needs to generate 0.01 pec back for every 0.5 pecs that particular newbie spends... so 2 pecs in 1 ped. Now i dont know about you, but i dont know many new players who dont loose less then 2 pecs on their first runs.

Now considering Mindforce has much more uses, and the price of sweat rises, MA will need to take less money from sweating players, as the ratio of what they gave to what the player received will decrease. This will also cause an inflated markup for an item that is consumed, and i doubt people would go without tp chips.

So more usage of MF and at a higher cost? how is that not good for MA?

If new player would get PEDs easly then they wouldn't deposit... Now, newcomers can see the game and still don't get a lot of PEDs, something like just to try hunting or mining... And if they don't get lots of PEDs, and sweating is a bit borring, then they deposit... that's how they earn, I think understood what you wanted to say, but as you see MA likes system as it is now...

 

[Bosco]

Sweat isn't really PEDs for nothing. Since it has almost no TT value, it cost them nothing. The money people pay for it ulitmately comes from other players' deposits.

 

[Novacula]

i just use MF for my TP chip, Like everybody i think.

WHEN i wouLd start pLaying EU now with actuaL knowLedge, i wouLd serious start hunting with MF, coz ME goes cheaper and cheaper and i saw how awesome hunting can be with high skiLLs MF.

 

[Phil Surtees]

Making sweat more plentiful will just drive down the price of sweat since it's value now is dependent on the supply of force nexus, the one and only thing that it is good for.
MA could introduce another use for sweat, even if it's just a sweat texture or something like that to keep the price of sweat at a viable level.

 

[Dawis]

Making sweat more plentiful will just drive down the price of sweat since it's value now is dependent on the supply of force nexus, the one and only thing that it is good for.
MA could introduce another use for sweat, even if it's just a sweat texture or something like that to keep the price of sweat at a viable level.

I don't see your point. To my mind cheper sweat is better for EU. And if sweat is "made more plentiful" and it's price goes down sweaters still get the same or more money, since they can sweat much higher amounts of sweat in one hour.

 

[Alice]

i don't think more sweat would help tbh

for this example i would like to introduce the T1 fap, which does 7.7-10.3 damage for 0.909 pec heal
so say, for 24 heal you need like 3 pecs

if you do the same with a minor heal chip
you have for 24 heal 3 pec chip decay+ 1ME+implant decay

the sweat or ME price in the end isn't the only problem there
one of the main problems yes, but even if you would sell it at tt value

you would overpay 2 pecs all the time in this example
that is 66% more cost each heal compared to T1

and yes, i used the lowest for this and not a L fap, but higher MF chips use more ME, which has, even at tt, not a positive impact

although the MF chip itself has a quite good or acceptable eco usually, the additional cost suck, even with ME at tt

and that works for pretty much any chip

 

[Dawis]

i don't think more sweat would help tbh

for this example i would like to introduce the T1 fap, which does 7.7-10.3 damage for 0.909 pec heal
so say, for 24 heal you need like 3 pecs

if you do the same with a minor heal chip
you have for 24 heal 3 pec chip decay+ 1ME+implant decay

the sweat or ME price in the end isn't the only problem there
one of the main problems yes, but even if you would sell it at tt value

you would overpay 2 pecs all the time in this example
that is 66% more cost each heal compared to T1

and yes, i used the lowest for this and not a L fap, but higher MF chips use more ME, which has, even at tt, not a positive impact

although the MF chip itself has a quite good or acceptable eco usually, the additional cost suck, even with ME at tt

and that works for pretty much any chip

I agree about healing chips, but stats of the several hunting chips are way better. They become quite eco if ME is TT.

 

[Norbert]

Mindforce is amazing as it is, in fact so amazingly perfect i wouldn't change a thing.

 

[soothsayer]

Sweat should be used for all new and future vehicles along with oil. a oil and sweat mix to generate a oileat.


i now too many people with huge amounts of sweat in their inventory so if the market is not already flooded with the stuff increasing the amount that drops is just crazy. the increased amount will only be need if oileat is needed,.


MAybe MF does not need changed... yea it does we need more higher level chips to drop in loot and so that we can all enjoy firestorm chips.

add new MF chips..
add oileat to new and future vehicles.

there needs too be more uses for MF or soon there wil be so so much sweat in storage that no one will ever need too buy any more ever agian.

 

[Alice]

I agree about healing chips, but stats of the several hunting chips are way better. They become quite eco if ME is TT.

as a matter of fact, they don't

i think you refer to the higher level NB chips especially, and maybe even use the dam/pec function of wiki

but there is a little catch

the higher lvl chips of NB and FS have SIB
unfortunately, that SIB doesn't mean its maxed say around lvl 50, but still lvl 100 or something

and as all SIB weapons, you don't deal max damage for a looooooong while
but have a funky interval of something like 30-60% / 50-100% of the damage

so the eco in that case might indeed be pretty good with ME at tt, but you gotta be a lvl 50-100 psychotropian damage to have a useful effect of it

some higher skilled ppl likely can manage that via damage related skills, but generally thats quite tough

else your damage interval will suck considerably

i think mine still does and i should be around lvl 20-30 psycho dam
(gotta admit i didn't check lately, will be soon though )

 

[AL Killmore]

As a matter of fact - they really do, IF you have the skills

Same for L and UL guns, same for BPs, same for mining gear. There's a pattern, you know

It differs for heal chips tho. Their eco is lower than FAPs but they give ranged healing.

 

[Alice]

As a matter of fact - they really do, IF you have the skills

Same for L and UL guns, same for BPs, same for mining gear. There's a pattern, you know

It differs for heal chips tho. Their eco is lower than FAPs but they give ranged healing.

heh, ya

i am lvl 26.7 psychotropian damage

and on moderate NB chip my damage is
12.1-24.2/19.5-39

that is like 62% of the best i could do, bit over half

that means my eco is kinda half what i could do theoretically at lvl 100 (or around that)

so yes, ME at tt would indeed improve eco considerably for the say 20-40 ppl who have it at lvl 80-100 and even use a higher level NB chip
(could be more though, but after a while the amount of higher NB chips is running out to cover all, so its basically a guessed figure)

considering that there are to date just 2 official people who ever unlocked MF harmony (except i missed one here), which comes at lvl 51 psycho hit
combined with the fact that the psychotropy skill has 25% of the damage

you can count back a bit
say you have 6k psychtropy naturally skilled, you might be about to unlock harmony (more towards 7k psycho needed i guess tho, 50% effect on hit)
then you got a damage profession contribution of around 15 levels

without that, lvl 80 in psychotropy is hard

since you had to get lvl 80 just via side skills
ofc, most hunters get a kinda high anatomy, wounding, etc "soon", but still,
its a hard way

i doubt too many reached that

and i pretty much doubt too many will with the current skill situation and options in MF anytime soon
even if that unlikely case happens, its kinda hard to get a chip, since they rarely loot, if they do at all

and for this rather small circle a lower sweat price would indeed improve their eco

 

[AL Killmore]

Nobody says that it's easy
If it was we'd be ubers all and MA will go broke

Anyway i never said that decreasing of sweat price is a good thing. But it helps people that skill in MF and buy sweat on the market. That won't change the fact that when CE2 and chinese guys come the sweat price will collapse, Dan Dan will be declared a deity and MF ubers will hunt at 6.00 dmg/pec

 

[NeutrinoX]

Hey there.

As a non-depositor ("Oooh! Shun the non-depositor! Shuuuuuuun!!!"), I would recieve any changes on the MF system with both fear and anticipation. So far, and arming myself with patience I've been able to survive and fund my EU activities (Well, at least most of them) by sweating. I know sweat prices are already depressing, and, erm, well, won't delve further into this as countless threads have been done with this very same subject, but still somehow I manage to keep going. My point is, how far should these changes go compared with the current one, and what impact these would have into newcomers and those who have chosen the path of sweat? Make it so ME is worth TT and Nexus mining and Sweat gathering becomes pointless? Or perhaps introduce new chips and do a major rethinking and design on the current ones? (As many previously have stated, their economy is far from being acceptable and most people won't nearly get close to having the enough skills to use them, more or less efficiently). Perhaps increasing the number of bottles obtained per sucessful pull? (Say, I gather around 400 Sweat per hour, 2 PED if sold @ 0.5 each. Who or what will guarantee the figures will remain about the same once price goes down? More uses for the Sweat is an idea, yes... I like Soothsayer's idea as long as we can come up with a better name than "oileat". Oh, and don't come up with the beaten up argument that sweaters and anyone who deposits a comparatively small amount of money don't contribute with economy and thus their presence is pointless. )

Personally I think the whole MF system is in call for a revamp, yeah, but along with some careful thinking so things won't be broken even further.

 

[Phaser]

Just voted no like the rest.

MF sucks.....for 4 years it has continue to sux....

I just know for sure, when and if they re-think MF usage, it will be more expensive, more rare, more L, more decay....

Guess it will be good for sweaters and MF traders...and MA.

 

[Novacula]

the poLL said: 5 MA empLoyees red the thread and voted "Everything fine!"

 

[maximussmit]

Looking at the MF equipment available ingame I see, that the idea in general was good, but it is obvious that Mind essence as a fuel for MF limits the usage of MF with one simple factor - price. Just like most of the blueprints are useless in manufacturing because of the markups most of MF activities are useless because of the markup of mind essence, but ok, I did not open this thread to complain about ME price.

Agree to disagree.. You mention that MF is limiting due to the markup on ME, but isn't this our own fault?

Let's face it, the market that controls sweat and nexus used to produce ME, ultimately controls the market on ME which in turn is controlled by us, the inhibitors of Calypso.

There is vast demographic of players in this "Universe", all backgrounds and all ages. Let me explain:

Johnny McNugget has just created an Avatar, Johnny is 13 years old, lives in Zimbabwe level headed, intelligent and has played all MMO's. He knows how to survive.

Across the planet, William Dunkerk, a 32 year old lawyer from New York has also created an Avatar. William, however is in the midst of a mid live crisis, with two kids and a nagging wife, William needs an escape.

Johnny hit's the sweat camp like a daemon, build skills, play's when ever he can, makes new freinds (Uber ones too) and progresses as a semi non depositor. With a limited budget of 200,000,000,000,000,000 Zim Dollars a month (equates to roughly 10.48 Ped) Johnny soon progresses to a point of using the various aspects of Mind force. Conclusion, Johnny has made use of common sense and applied patients in achieving a goal without adversely affecting the market of any of the required items.

William however, cant wait as long as Johnny did. William suffers from the dreaded "I will HOF from my credit card and buy my way to Uber status." syndrome. William makes a $100,000 (US) Deposit, buy's the crap into the auctions, without any real concern to markup of required items and soon becomes an Uber MF user.

Are you seeing the problem yet. The prices and markup of items and materiel required for certain activities in the "Universe" are controlled by the Johnny's and Williams of this world. As in life, markets that are controlled by Human behavior and greed will end up being either over stretched or bombed out completely. Ultimately it is all dependent on demand, availability and how badly one want said item.

Need I say More.....

 

[Dagata]

with the sweat prices dropping it will encourage more players to use MF, and with more MF users, MA will be more inclined to give updates to the system.

Adding different functions to MF such as buffs or different skills would put a nice spin onto pvp and LG events, of course with the new variety it would drive the sweat price up again, to the point that it would be discouraging to use MF, it seems that if you widen the selection of skills to be used by MF, a drop in the MF per use would have to be able to maintain a current sweat price to be able to support an increase of range of skills.

The other option would be to increase the sweat rate per hour if there was to be an increase of the variety of skills that people are commonly using

 

[AL Killmore]

Let's look at the current situation.
Just few months ago ME price was over 200%. Now it's below 180%. My rough calculations tell me that combat MF skills will be eco enough with ME price 140-150%. So basicly i'm just waiting for the CryEngine2 and the chinese hordes of cheap sweatgatherers. Meanwhile my nexus stock is constantly increasing, as is my enmatter finding profession. Next year i'll be ready to start serious MF skilling. It's like that: the more ME price drops, the more advantage MF users will have over the common laser/BLP hunters. Skills are the limit. Gain those skills and you'll rule Calypso
The time of Mind Force users is approaching. Mark my words

 

[soothsayer]

Let's look at the current situation.
Just few months ago ME price was over 200%. Now it's below 180%. My rough calculations tell me that combat MF skills will be eco enough with ME price 140-150%. So basicly i'm just waiting for the CryEngine2 and the chinese hordes of cheap sweatgatherers. Meanwhile my nexus stock is constantly increasing, as is my enmatter finding profession. Next year i'll be ready to start serious MF skilling. It's like that: the more ME price drops, the more advantage MF users will have over the common laser/BLP hunters. Skills are the limit. Gain those skills and you'll rule Calypso
The time of Mind Force users is approaching. Mark my words

actually makes sense... if MF does become cheap enough to use many more will take it on and a price balance will be found..

 

[Dan59]

few things about hunting even if ME=TT or less

You cant run or move.
You can be wery easy interrupted.
You miss a lot.
You do wery samll damage.
You need ages to kill mob.
Reload and shooting rate is imposible slow ( on lvl 100 NB you shoot with 37 hits at minit and i dont think anyone will come at lvl 100 with resonable time and money lost)
Mind activiti shud be fastest of all or we are so retard that we need ages to concentrate and shoot.
You depend on aviability of sweat - ie on constant flux of newcomers or on infinite time lost to get it by yourself - so you cant be hunter full time but only ocasional hunter after long period of gathering or collecting ammo. In one day of hard skilling is easy to burn 70k ME. Next day is not like you go at TT and buy more before next hunt lol.
You dont get HP using mindforce except from defense and general skills gain.
You dont know for what you skill up because no new chips or other use of MF is aviable.
You dont get better loot to pay your looses for using MF.
Your mind and thinking is slower than most of nowdays weapons.
During ages of concentration and reload time you need to pay extra fee by using focus chip.
Your focus last about 20 seconds let say for example in midle of tants.
You can have 7 fails on revival chip even if success rate say Good and that is like 8 retryes at reload rate 6 on min. Do you belive MA will remove revival terminals and all players waiting ages trought all failures to be revived ...
All mf is probably linked to loot server or something - during lag you get infinite reload bug and cant shoot - that is not same with let say handgun -
with handgun you still can shoot and kill mob - just cant loot it after.
You can hit with firestorm only on distance, shooting mob close in front you miss at least 50% - is same if you have 0 skills or 5k and all ranged a lot over 10k+. Ah this one is so slow and after missing mob you sure stay sick . Is almost unusable like decoy dispenser because mob is eating you untill you wait on reload.
You cant help much with your bio chip healing, You need to go to lvl 100 to be able to heal 22 times on minit - still slow lol and only 58 heal points.
You cant heal all team mates at once with that chip.
You cant be sure that MF will stay in game tomorow - no good info on that.
You cant wait on MA promises that will be done in future - many years a go they promised many things to do in future. Now is that future but things were not done.
MF skill gain go down badly after 5k as all other proffessions except MF is a lot more expensive and less efficient as is now.


Apart TP chip users MF have wery small group of ppl who use it and skill with love regardles all minuses. And that is problem - for so small group of MF users MA will not invest much and develop further as is now, but lets hope.

 

[Crux]

You cant run or move.
You can be wery easy interrupted.
You miss a lot.
You do wery samll damage.
You need ages to kill mob.
Reload and shooting rate is imposible slow ( on lvl 100 NB you shoot with 37 hits at minit and i dont think anyone will come at lvl 100 with resonable time and money lost)
Mind activiti shud be fastest of all or we are so retard that we need ages to concentrate and shoot.
You depend on aviability of sweat - ie on constant flux of newcomers or on infinite time lost to get it by yourself - so you cant be hunter full time but only ocasional hunter after long period of gathering or collecting ammo. In one day of hard skilling is easy to burn 70k ME. Next day is not like you go at TT and buy more before next hunt lol.
You dont get HP using mindforce except from defense and general skills gain.
You dont know for what you skill up because no new chips or other use of MF is aviable.
You dont get better loot to pay your looses for using MF.
Your mind and thinking is slower than most of nowdays weapons.
During ages of concentration and reload time you need to pay extra fee by using focus chip.
Your focus last about 20 seconds let say for example in midle of tants.
You can have 7 fails on revival chip even if success rate say Good and that is like 8 retryes at reload rate 6 on min. Do you belive MA will remove revival terminals and all players waiting ages trought all failures to be revived ...
All mf is probably linked to loot server or something - during lag you get infinite reload bug and cant shoot - that is not same with let say handgun -
with handgun you still can shoot and kill mob - just cant loot it after.
You can hit with firestorm only on distance, shooting mob close in front you miss at least 50% - is same if you have 0 skills or 5k and all ranged a lot over 10k+. Ah this one is so slow and after missing mob you sure stay sick . Is almost unusable like decoy dispenser because mob is eating you untill you wait on reload.
You cant help much with your bio chip healing, You need to go to lvl 100 to be able to heal 22 times on minit - still slow lol and only 58 heal points.
You cant heal all team mates at once with that chip.
You cant be sure that MF will stay in game tomorow - no good info on that.
You cant wait on MA promises that will be done in future - many years a go they promised many things to do in future. Now is that future but things were not done.
MF skill gain go down badly after 5k as all other proffessions except MF is a lot more expensive and less efficient as is now.


Apart TP chip users MF have wery small group of ppl who use it and skill with love regardles all minuses. And that is problem - for so small group of MF users MA will not invest much and develop further as is now, but lets hope.

Good call Dan.

I know you skill MF hardcore and it is really sad to see no development in MF.

There are thousands of new (L) items. We now have party tends and frigerators and so on, but NO new (L) MF chips, nothing.