Missed Shots - Is It Unfair for Hunters ?

[King Noobis]

Why do I believe it is unfair? Simply because out of the 3 main professions: hunting, mining and crafting only hunters have this additional cost to play.

In mining you drop a bomb which is the cost of a chance to get loot –maybe you get some loot maybe you get a NRF.

In crafting the materials are the cost of a chance at getting loot. Maybe the item is crafted maybe not. Maybe you get some materials back maybe you lose it all.

In hunting the ammunition is the cost of a chance at getting loot. But not only do we need to use up XXX ammo to be able to loot the mob, we have to “lose” an additional 10% or more in missed shots. This is, in my opinion, completely unfair and is selectively increasing the cost of the game for hunters.

I am sure there are benefits and disadvantages in all professions but the missed shots is different in that hunters are “forced” to incur this cost and cannot do anything to reduce or eliminate it. It’s more like a direct tax by our hosts on hunters. Additionally, this cost can be increased at anytime without our knowledge and that is also unique (I think)in game. No conclusive evidence that it has been increased - so lets not make this the main point because its not meant to be in this thread. Other threads are already open on this point.

Maybe I am missing something so your comments are welcome.

 

[jdegre]

the _theoretical_ % of missed shots is already considered in the mob's cost-to-kill, which determines your return. it's a feature of the game, by design, not an extra cost.

the problem with missing shots is when different players experience different miss rates (why?, who knows...) instead of the theoretical ones.

 

[King Noobis]

the _theoretical_ % of missed shots is already considered in the mob's cost-to-kill, which determines your return. it's a feature of the game, by design, not an extra cost.

the problem with missing shots is when different players experience different miss rates (why?, who knows...) instead of the theoretical ones.

I did think of that but I cant really reconcile why they have this included this feature for hunters?

I dont think this feature could be applied to crafting or mining so it still seems a bit of an odity to me.

Thinking of it as added in the cost to kill seems more like how we the players justified its existance? Was this ever confirmed by MA/FPC or any offical source? If it was then I could concentrate on if the % of missed shots has increased or not

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Libby]

Why do I believe it is unfair? Simply because out of the 3 main professions: hunting, mining and crafting only hunters have this additional cost to play.

In mining you drop a bomb which is the cost of a chance to get loot –maybe you get some loot maybe you get a NRF.

In crafting the materials are the cost of a chance at getting loot. Maybe the item is crafted maybe not. Maybe you get some materials back maybe you lose it all.

In hunting the ammunition is the cost of a chance at getting loot. But not only do we need to use up XXX ammo to be able to loot the mob, we have to “lose” an additional 10% or more in missed shots. This is, in my opinion, completely unfair and is selectively increasing the cost of the game for hunters.

I am sure there are benefits and disadvantages in all professions but the missed shots is different in that hunters are “forced” to incur this cost and cannot do anything to reduce or eliminate it. It’s more like a direct tax by our hosts on hunters. Additionally, this cost can be increased at anytime without our knowledge and that is also unique (I think)in game. No conclusive evidence that it has been increased - so lets not make this the main point because its not meant to be in this thread. Other threads are already open on this point.

Maybe I am missing something so your comments are welcome.

Are u kidding me? Maybe you should look around in the forums a bit. Miners are getting more NRFs than ever and crafters are getting more fails than ever. Its not just hunters paying extra, its everyone.

Do you honestly think that these NRFs and fails are free to them in some way compared to a missed shot?

If anything the misses has brought hunting down to the miner and crafters levels.

 

[King Noobis]

Are u kidding me? Maybe you should look around in the forums a bit. Miners are getting more NRFs than ever and crafters are getting more fails than ever. Its not just hunters paying extra, its everyone.

Do you honestly think that these NRFs and fails are free to them in some way compared to a missed shot?

If anything the misses has brought hunting down to the miner and crafters levels.

Ahh - I think you missed what I am getting at. You dont have to tell me loot is bad for everyone one I know it is and I am not saying anything about that.

I was questioning if the existance of missed shot is a unique feature (and unfair) for hunters.

We get not loot mobs too just like NRF's and failed attempts in addition we have missed shots.

 

[Libby]

Thats what im getting at, it evens it out for everyone. Instead of hunters being the chosen ones, now its being equalized, in PED spent vs Returns. Factoring in your misses you now have to cycle more PED to get a decent return, like everyone else who doesn't hunt.

 

[King Noobis]

Thats what im getting at, it evens it out for everyone. Instead of hunters being the chosen ones, now its being equalized, in PED spent vs Returns. Factoring in your misses you now have to cycle more PED to get a decent return, like everyone else who doesn't hunt.

Well I am not chosen in anything that is for sure but I can say i have had plenty of bad runs in both. Had plenty hunting runs below 50% and same for mining. I dont want to debate hunting returns versus mining returns because everyone has there issues. But yes loot has been crappy for a long time in both areas and i would expect for crafters too.

Thanks for your replys and point of view on this issue.

 

[Tamn]

I think missed bombs is unfair for miners,

 

[mike jones]

the _theoretical_ % of missed shots is already considered in the mob's cost-to-kill, which determines your return. it's a feature of the game, by design, not an extra cost.

do u have ma proof of this? since i think your wrong there theoretical missed shots is not calculated into loot return.

 

[Hurrikane]

I'm thinking that someone with 10k in a bunch of combat skills, 10/10 on a gun covered in expensive scopes and sights, would be seeing less MISS messages than me. So it's another in a long line of incentives.

I'd say the main reason for wondering about it now would be the fact it just got made prominent; most hunters knew about and had accepted the number of times they missed, but suddenly the evidence is in front of them; not obscured by chat lag or dodgy calculations, but starkly emblazoned on the screen. While helpful and informative, the sight of your ped actually going nowhere is too much for some I think.

I get about as many MISS messages as I thought I was getting, which made me happy, in that my idea of my progress and expenditure was near enough. Those who imagined they must miss less won't be so happy, but I have low expectations. I've yet to get 4 in a row, so that's alright in my book. I still get more than enough occasions of hitting nicely several times in a row, and the mobs still die at the end.

I don't see this as a nerf, in short, just making the existing situation unfortunately obvious.

Hurrikane

 

[SuperKanjo]

Why do I believe it is unfair? Simply because out of the 3 main professions: hunting, mining and crafting only hunters have this additional cost to play.

But hunters have the benefit of critical hits while miners and crafters don't have this.

 

[Wolverine Queen]

Theorethically your miss rate is 8%.

Theorethically your return rate on long run is 92%.

 

[shoti]

number of missed shots should be adequate to your skils....just my 2 pecs

 

[billairboy]

I must say this was a pretty strange post
Miners get NRF, crafters get failuers, hunters get misses.

We compete against each other, not against MA, so if all players (hunters) have the same rules is not so big issue if we miss 10 % or 15 % as long it's the same for everyone.

 

[jdegre]

do u have ma proof of this? since i think your wrong there theoretical missed shots is not calculated into loot return.

there is no need for MA to prove it (and of course they will never do it, since they never talk about returns).

i say it is calculated into loot return because the average TT return over the long run has always been shown to be higher than 90% (probably closer to 95%). if you put an additional 10% from the missed shots, what would you expect? to have a TT return higher than 100%?

 

[Mikass]

I must say this was a pretty strange post
Miners get NRF, crafters get failuers, hunters get misses.

We compete against each other, not against MA, so if all players (hunters) have the same rules is not so big issue if we miss 10 % or 15 % as long it's the same for everyone.

Actually hunters have no loots, same way as miners have "no resource found" or crafters have "failures".

 

[billairboy]

Actually hunters have no loots, same way as miners have "no resource found" or crafters have "failures".

Okey, yes you are right, but my point is that a part of the sytem and the cost of "getting the loot", so in my opinion it not any big deal as long is the same for everyone and the tt return compared to the cost is the same.

Do we have any good comparsion between avarage tt return from the three proffesions? Would be intressting to see if they all show the same avarage return in tt.

 

[Jimmy B]

Seen a similar comment made by someone in soc-chat the other day too. I don't really get it to be honest.

Like Hurri says, nothing has changed except for the fact we now get misses announced in the chat window (a feature that has actually been requested here quite a few times over the years).

Like jdegre says, misses are blatantly considered by the system. If misses were removed you'd just get 10% or so less in each loot window.

 

[GoNi]

Failures on LVL1 BP for high level crafters are unfair as well!

Its part of the game, and not new.
Misses always existed, since I started with EU (or any other MMO!)

Only thing thats new, is that missed shots/strikes are now displayed in chat, and you may analyze your REAL HA now a little easyer !

 

[HinDragoz]

Well I am not chosen in anything that is for sure but I can say i have had plenty of bad runs in both. Had plenty hunting runs below 50% and same for mining. I dont want to debate hunting returns versus mining returns because everyone has there issues. But yes loot has been crappy for a long time in both areas and i would expect for crafters too.

I cant see how can you get plenty of bad runs with only 1.5k total in hunting and 500ped in mining?

Spend more, whine less and you'll get it back sooner or later

 

[Witte]

the problem with missing shots is when different players experience different miss rates (why?, who knows...) instead of the theoretical ones.

One interesting observation, I bought a HL6 to kill some small drones. I did get 92% hit rate over about 1k shots. Just a theory, but maybe different type of weapons have different hit rates? I also still don't dismiss the idea that different mobs have different hit rates.

 

[GoNi]

One interesting observation, I bought a HL6 to kill some small drones. I did get 92% hit rate over about 1k shots. Just a theory, but maybe different type of weapons have different hit rates? I also still don't dismiss the idea that different mobs have different hit rates.

I don´t think its the weapon that changes the hitrate.

I noticed that I got very few missed shots vs small Daiki and much more missed shots vs big Atroxes.

Maybe the mobs have something like an evade possibility that will result in more missed shots on bigger mobs, due to better mobs evader abillity.

In details:

After analyzing the hunts

92% hits on Daiki
89,25% hits on Atroxes

Both hunts with maxed weapons HA 10/10

 

[Witte]

I don´t think its the weapon that changes the hitrate.

I noticed that I got very few missed shots vs small Daiki and much more missed shots vs big Atroxes.

Maybe the mobs have something like an evade possibility that will result in more missed shots on bigger mobs, due to better mobs evader abillity.

In details:

After analyzing the hunts

92% hits on Daiki
89,25% hits on Atroxes

Both hunts with maxed weapons HA 10/10

Interesting. I am going to do another run on small drones in a moment. If hit rate really depends on mobs, the next question would be if this is the same for everyone or skill dependent. But first more data is needed.

 

[jjmatrix]

Seen a similar comment made by someone in soc-chat the other day too. I don't really get it to be honest.

Like Hurri says, nothing has changed except for the fact we now get misses announced in the chat window (a feature that has actually been requested here quite a few times over the years).

Like jdegre says, misses are blatantly considered by the system. If misses were removed you'd just get 10% or so less in each loot window.

I read the OP twice, and I couldn't see where it says missing shoots rate is CHANGED, it simply states that missing shoots are unfair, considering the other professions.
Anyway, as said already, I do think that missing is part of the game, and it's taken into consideration. Implementation is wrong IMO, where the difference between maxed/un-maxed, and skilled vs less skilled are blury at best.

As someone else said, it would be great to have average return for the three professions.

 

[Jimmy B]

I read the OP twice, and I couldn't see where it says missing shoots rate is CHANGED, it simply states that missing shoots are unfair, considering the other professions.

Fair point, OP didn't state miss rate has changed. My comment was more a comment on the fact that MA putting the misses into the chat window appears to have caused some resentment, directly or indirectly, about something that hasn't changed for years. Which I feel to be a shame given that putting the misses in the chat window is an improvement that has been requested by various parties on this forum for a number of years.

Anyway, as said already, I do think that missing is part of the game, and it's taken into consideration. Implementation is wrong IMO, where the difference between maxed/un-maxed, and skilled vs less skilled are blury at best.

Yeah, and scope+sights/no scope&no sights.

But having the misses in the chat window, and having the chat window loggable, makes it much easier for those interested in the answers to investigate. Must be a good thing.

 

[King Noobis]

I'm thinking that someone with 10k in a bunch of combat skills, 10/10 on a gun covered in expensive scopes and sights, would be seeing less MISS messages than me. So it's another in a long line of incentives.

I'd say the main reason for wondering about it now would be the fact it just got made prominent; most hunters knew about and had accepted the number of times they missed, but suddenly the evidence is in front of them; not obscured by chat lag or dodgy calculations, but starkly emblazoned on the screen. While helpful and informative, the sight of your ped actually going nowhere is too much for some I think.

I get about as many MISS messages as I thought I was getting, which made me happy, in that my idea of my progress and expenditure was near enough. Those who imagined they must miss less won't be so happy, but I have low expectations. I've yet to get 4 in a row, so that's alright in my book. I still get more than enough occasions of hitting nicely several times in a row, and the mobs still die at the end.

I don't see this as a nerf, in short, just making the existing situation unfortunately obvious.

Hurrikane

Good point about the skills.

In a different thread I posted a post i made in July 2009 about mised shots so i am not just nocticing it now.

The amount of missed shots is not in questions here but there are a few threads discsussin this already.

Thanks for replying.

 

[King Noobis]

But hunters have the benefit of critical hits while miners and crafters don't have this.

True but the crafting machines and claim rods do not GIVE crital hits to them but hunters do get critical hits.

Critical hits from hunters are to offset the crit dmg we take.

 

[King Noobis]

Theorethically your miss rate is 8%.

Theorethically your return rate on long run is 92%.

you should re-read my post. I am not discussing the hit/miss rate.

thx

 

[King Noobis]

I must say this was a pretty strange post
Miners get NRF, crafters get failuers, hunters get misses.

We compete against each other, not against MA, so if all players (hunters) have the same rules is not so big issue if we miss 10 % or 15 % as long it's the same for everyone.

OK maybe i wasnt clear enouhg in my OP but someone has already responded to you with basically exactly what I would have said.

Thx

 

[SuperKanjo]

True but the crafting machines and claim rods do not GIVE crital hits to them but hunters do get critical hits.

Critical hits from hunters are to offset the crit dmg we take.

Thats you're point of view