Modloot, good or bad?

[Lizzy Storm]

Since modloot has been added to the game, I have had a lot of contact with crafters.

A lot of the crafters I have spoken to seem to have lower returns. Some have quit crafting, and others seem to have lowered activity. There are still a lot going strong, waiting for all to return normal again.

Crafting affect a lot of aspects in the game. Miners and hunters selling loot, to the same miners and hunters using crafted items to improve their game or successes.

My question to the community is;
Since the modloot came into the game, did anything change for you? How did it change, and if it was a negative change, what is to be done to improve it? If it is a positive change, what is your feeling towards the players feeling affected by the modloot?

 

[KlowN]

I thought in the Bonnie/Kim interview Kim said Mod loot was more specific creature loot? Idk, maybe I'm wrong, sry if so.

 

[Lizzy Storm]

Bonnie: So we will start with Das’s Question. He pointed out that in the 2013 road map, there was a note saying that the average tt returns were set to increase. - can you tell us was there any percentage amount that they were set to increase by? Or any more information on that?

Kim: Well, no exact percentage was decided, but we did increase the payout. And that has actually happened. We also reduced the volatility. And people may still have bad runs, but overall returns are actually better than they have been.

Yes, reading more of the interview is does include the talk about mobs - indicating you are right, but that does not take away the fact what has been said above about loot/returns, so there are a lot of crafters are still in doubt over their chosen profession.

We also reduced the volatility

To me, indicating that there would be less globals or hof's. If you do 5-10k clicks, and receiving a lower % of globals or hofs, the crafters will run at bigger losses than before the modloot was introduced.
Known to most crafters they need a set ammount of globals or hofs to get their 90%, if not to break even.

 

[Profit]

All I can say about crafting is that the number of successes has dropped (condition) and the TT value of successes has dropped (condition). Resulting in the worst returns I've had in 7 years of crafting.

Perfect example being level2 light amp. In my last run I had 13 successes. Of those successes, only 1 was a global.
In the past, 9-10 of those 13 successes would have been a global.
I also recently had around 120 consecutive failures on alekz scope, was something like 117 I think.

Sold all my BP's shortly after the 120 odd failures.

 

[Neil Stockton]

I suppose the recent change to crafting is why residue has gone down in price (more near successes). I had hoped the 40+ COS was here to stay but seems like they've changed it back to pre-january rates now. Not sure if the rate of globals is the same, it seems like we had more back then.

 

[Jin Franka]

bad for me. I almost always craft on condtion and I get way less globals. as mentioned above.
which means, if no hof comes by you´re screwed.
resulting in a bigger risk now.

 

[Darkpepe]

pretty bad i would say, had a few crafting runs (~500PED/250Clicks) without any globals, including bad returns...

 

[GeorgeSkywalker]

Known to most crafters they need a set ammount of globals or hofs to get their 90%, if not to break even.

With the mod loot I think this is no longer that case to break even. In hunting I've noticed I can break even without any globals.

It's probably something similar in crafting.

All I can say about crafting is that the number of successes has dropped (condition) and the TT value of successes has dropped (condition).

If modloot is now made to be less volatile. Which is what it seems like then by condition crafting your like stabbing yourself because globals/hofs would be even rarer.

If you were to craft for success it stands to logic your likely to break even and possibly profit because your success rate would be much higher.

Also I think skills may play a bigger role in determining loot i.e. if you use a bp which your less skilled to use or hunt a mob which is outside your skill range your likely to have bad loot.

So basically the system seems to be encouraging people to play sensibly which is perhaps what it should have been in the beginning. Also makes more sense in this new system to level up i.e. gain skills.

I've not done any tests or such so could be wrong but this is what I'm guessing how it's changed. I haven't crafted much since modfloot but I have hunted a fair bit.

 

[slither]

There's been some changes to loot, which some people are mistakenly calling mod loot.

The mod loot are those periods of time when a mob is hoffing like crazy for 10-60mins. There hasn't been one of them for some time now, probably because everyone who wasn't involved was crying like a baby.

I bet the guys at MA were shaking their heads in disbelief. Spiders giving 500-1000ped hofs every 30 seconds and people complaining on forum that loot sucked.

 

[billairboy]

I suppose the recent change to crafting is why residue has gone down in price (more near successes). I had hoped the 40+ COS was here to stay but seems like they've changed it back to pre-january rates now. Not sure if the rate of globals is the same, it seems like we had more back then.

The successes rate really have taken a turn for the worst, at least for me with quantity crafting stables. Can't say exactly when it changed, maybe in June. Before that is was better than ever with success rate in the scope of 40-50% for a couple of month, maybe it was since January as you write. It's a bit depressing to feel that you have better skills and improved your bp rating, but get fewer successes compered to a year ago. I thought the goal of MA was to make the average return better, and that should mean a more steady rate of success, not fewer. The amount of globals i'm not sure of, maybe fewer, but not sure.

 

[Jin Franka]

Annoys me that so many changes are "discovered" by players.
Often I see threads with "Have you noticed this" "X has been changed" and so on.
All of a sudden MA changes something without telling us and it pisses me off.
Not very respectful.
Instead of being asses and confusing people, just fucking tell us when you change something!

 

[Lizzy Storm]

Well, reading the posts it seems that the people responded do have a lower return rate/success rate.

I would like to know if anyone reading these posts actually saw his/her returns become better. I know the forums are often a place to complain, but to get to know more about the loot changes it would be helpful to also read about the good story's.

 

[sitram]

The number of globals have decreased in crafting, that's for sure.

I used to do low level component crafting like simple I plastic springs or ruds or conductors. I always did long rounds, 1.5-3k clicks and during each round I got several globals. Without those globals it would have been a big loss

Now when I resumed crafting, it's quite common to get no global during a 1.5k-2k round, even if it's for example a level 3 BP like plastic ruds. Even so the tt return is not horrible.

This to me indicates the tt return in crafting has been made less volatile.

 

[billairboy]

This to me indicates the tt return in crafting has been made less volatile.

What I can see it fewer failures, fewer success and more "near success", at least that is the feeling I have.

 

[GeorgeSkywalker]

With the mod loot I think this is no longer that case to break even. In hunting I've noticed I can break even without any globals.

It's probably something similar in crafting.



If modloot is now made to be less volatile. Which is what it seems like then by condition crafting your like stabbing yourself because globals/hofs would be even rarer.

If you were to craft for success it stands to logic your likely to break even and possibly profit because your success rate would be much higher.

Also I think skills may play a bigger role in determining loot i.e. if you use a bp which your less skilled to use or hunt a mob which is outside your skill range your likely to have bad loot.

So basically the system seems to be encouraging people to play sensibly which is perhaps what it should have been in the beginning. Also makes more sense in this new system to level up i.e. gain skills.

I've not done any tests or such so could be wrong but this is what I'm guessing how it's changed. I haven't crafted much since modfloot but I have hunted a fair bit.

The successes rate really have taken a turn for the worst, at least for me with quantity crafting stables. Can't say exactly when it changed, maybe in June. Before that is was better than ever with success rate in the scope of 40-50% for a couple of month, maybe it was since January as you write. It's a bit depressing to feel that you have better skills and improved your bp rating, but get fewer successes compered to a year ago. I thought the goal of MA was to make the average return better, and that should mean a more steady rate of success, not fewer. The amount of globals i'm not sure of, maybe fewer, but not sure.

Well, reading the posts it seems that the people responded do have a lower return rate/success rate.

I would like to know if anyone reading these posts actually saw his/her returns become better. I know the forums are often a place to complain, but to get to know more about the loot changes it would be helpful to also read about the good story's.

Like i said before seemed to me to be less volatile and so much easier to break even. I was quite enjoying the skilling...Recently I have more bad runs I assumed that was just me on a bad loot phase.

Perhaps it's changed yet again? maybe more volatile once more perhaps people wanted it volatile?

 

[sitram]

What I can see it fewer failures, fewer success and more "near success", at least that is the feeling I have.

Playing EU by the feeling is bad because human brain sucks when it comes to statistics.

You have to compare numbers to see if there are any changes or not.

Yes, there are fewer globals, but the real question is if the overall tt has changed or not. Based on my numbers I don't see any change.

 

[sitram]

Like i said before seemed to me to be less volatile and so much easier to break even. I was quite enjoying the skilling...Recently I have more bad runs I assumed that was just me on a bad loot phase.

Perhaps it's changed yet again? maybe more volatile once more perhaps people wanted it volatile?

I also feel recently the loot is more volatile in hunting. Especially on the LT and eomon old.

 

[In Love With]

I also feel recently the loot is more volatile in hunting. Especially on the LT and eomon old.

I couldn't disagree more. Hunting for me, in the last months has provided me with the most stable returns in 8x years. Sure no big hofs but lots of mini's, lots of globals and if you look at the hunting boards on a daily basis, you'll notice immediately a lot less hofs and a lot more globals instead. Very well done MA

Crafting I can't comment on, on did 20 clicks on springs without a single success (maxed chance, bp 100) and was wondering what went wrong, lol ...


Angel

 

[Pyhä Antero]

There's been some changes to loot, which some people are mistakenly calling mod loot.

The mod loot are those periods of time when a mob is hoffing like crazy for 10-60mins. There hasn't been one of them for some time now, probably because everyone who wasn't involved was crying like a baby.

I bet the guys at MA were shaking their heads in disbelief. Spiders giving 500-1000ped hofs every 30 seconds and people complaining on forum that loot sucked.

Actually, Kim used the term Mod Loot in the meaning that mobs have now less different generic loot (just 4-5 different generic loots) in their loot tables. Although, I agree that when the news about Mod Loot came out there was some "juicing up" loots to celebrate the 10 anniversary of the game.

Edit: I think, they increased the amount of near successes, because residue prices were going too high, which killed amped mining.

 

[GeorgeSkywalker]

Edit: I think, they increased the amount of near successes, because residue prices were going too high, which killed amped mining.

Interesting. Yes that could be an explanation. Since before mod loot main source of metal, enmatter residue would have been condition crafters. After mod loot this would have dried up if crafters had any sense. Hence, MA try to bring more residue on the market via more near misses. Which would explain the current scenario...


Another solution they could try is to add metal and enmatter residue to mining and hunting for example to robots, or iron rich mining areas etc. This would make sense and solve metal and enmatter residue issue.

 

[billairboy]

Playing EU by the feeling is bad because human brain sucks when it comes to statistics.

You have to compare numbers to see if there are any changes or not.

Yes, there are fewer globals, but the real question is if the overall tt has changed or not. Based on my numbers I don't see any change.

the tt return is just one thing, and i agree with this, i don't think the tt return have gone down. But the problem is the the return/number of success have gone down, at least that are what i see. We now have good statics after each crafting run directly in the game. Getting fewer items of the item you craft have an huge impact on the cost of the item you are crafting if the components you use have markup. We can't just track the tt value return.

 

[sitram]

the tt return is just one thing, and i agree with this, i don't think the tt return have gone down. But the problem is the the return/number of success have gone down, at least that are what i see. We now have good statics after each crafting run directly in the game. Getting fewer items of the item you craft have an huge impact on the cost of the item you are crafting if the components you use have markup. We can't just track the tt value return.

April 2011

57.76%	42.19%	0.05%
54.21%	45.78%	0.01%
58.36%	41.64%	0.01%
51.15%	47.98%	0.87%
41.57%	54.31%	4.12%
56.62%	42.81%	0.57%

June 2013

59.75%	40.15%	0.09%
58.92%	41.01%	0.07%
65.00%	34.99%	0.01%
54.65%	45.29%	0.06%
55.10%	44.87%	0.03%

July 2013

59.24%	40.73%	0.03%
56.23%	43.73%	0.05%

August 2013

48.88%	51.11%	0.00%
53.18%	46.81%	0.01%
49.58%	50.42%	0.00%

First column is % of loot from total return
Second column is % of residue from total return
Third column is % of blueprints from total return

These were rounds on components, lvl 1-3, BP's at 100 qr and all of them consisting between 1k-2k clicks.

I don't see much change. There appears to be a slight increase in residue return, but only on last month. I still need more data to validate because in the past there were consecutive rounds with higher % of residue. Do you have some data to sustain your claim?

What I see clearly is a decrease in blueprint returns, at last on components. I don't get 30-40 BP's after a round of 2k clicks.

 

[billairboy]

What I see clearly is a decrease in blueprint returns, at last on components. I don't get 30-40 BP's after a round of 2k clicks.

It's possibly it's an issues that effect enhancers mostly, because that is what i mostly craft. With enhancers you only can get one enhancers with each success, with components you can get different size of stacks when you succeed. You get fewer, but maybe bigger stacks when you succeed, but with enhancers you still only get one for each success. Or it's only I that have a really bad couple of month, because i see a difference in the number of success compare to earlier this year, that for sure.

 

[Profit]

If modloot is now made to be less volatile. Which is what it seems like then by condition crafting your like stabbing yourself because globals/hofs would be even rarer.

Exactly, which means one of two things;

1. Condition crafting is rigged to lose in which case it should be removed entirely.
2. Condition crafting is broken in which case it should be fixed.

 

[tyk]

All I can say about crafting is that the number of successes has dropped (condition) and the TT value of successes has dropped (condition). Resulting in the worst returns I've had in 7 years of crafting.

Perfect example being level2 light amp. In my last run I had 13 successes. Of those successes, only 1 was a global.
In the past, 9-10 of those 13 successes would have been a global.
I also recently had around 120 consecutive failures on alekz scope, was something like 117 I think.

Sold all my BP's shortly after the 120 odd failures.

ive been crafting small stuff on condition alot.. only seen 2 globals and i see that the condition successes are usually the same amount of peds.. very rarely i get bigger than normal.. also tried 100 click of lvl2 lights with 7 success and 0 globals.. good success rate but doesnt help if its always minimum..

 

[Profit]

ive been crafting small stuff on condition alot.. only seen 2 globals and i see that the condition successes are usually the same amount of peds.. very rarely i get bigger than normal.. also tried 100 click of lvl2 lights with 7 success and 0 globals.. good success rate but doesnt help if its always minimum..

Exactly... for condition crafters, it's lose/lose.

 

[lincey]

re

You're wrong. For condition crafter it isn't lose/lose.

Stop make 100 clic run full condition .. How could you have a good run if you only make 100 clic? To make a real run FULL CONDITION go at least 1000-2000 clics. At least!

 

[whiteknut]

Not much has changed. The average return is bit higher than before and super uber loots are bit more rare, everything else is the same. COndition crafting works well and you can often get tt 90% returns without big hofs, also success rate on condition crafting has improved (atleast for me).

 

[Xing Nu]

Mod loot is mith to get ppl to play more ancd it worked.

 

[Jin Franka]

Not much has changed. The average return is bit higher than before and super uber loots are bit more rare, everything else is the same. COndition crafting works well and you can often get tt 90% returns without big hofs, also success rate on condition crafting has improved (atleast for me).

you must be playing another game than me??
just did a tiny run on Groovers, I usually do around 1k clicks at a time, this was only 330 and I got 6 success which means every 55 clicks was a success
Got back around 35% I think.
I know how many successes I used to get and this is not it!
Something has changed, pisses me off that MA didn´t tell us arrogant bastards.
Im thinking what someone else mentioned, skills has a bigger impact now, dunno...