Question: Mouse clicking machine - Just as bad?

[Joser]

Have MA given a reply on the support case yet, Pinky?

 

[PINKY]

Have MA given a reply on the support case yet, Pinky?

Yes, post number 72.

They asked me to wait until August - we figure due to the annual MA holiday.


EDIT: just checked to make sure and one new reply, but not about the mouse clicker

07 Jul 2008 You wrote:
Hi,
There has been a great deal of discussion on Entopia Forum of late regarding the statement in the EULA agreement “The Participant also agrees upon not using any Third Party software or equipment that influences the Entropia Universe in any way.”.

Whilst I think I understand autoclicker programmes on my PC are not allowed, I would appreciate some clarity on the following points:

If I use a programmable mouse to click the craft button when crafting, would this breach the EULA?

If I use a machine (such as a lego device) to click the mouse button on the craft button would this breach the EULA?

I am specifically interested in crafting, as it is the only example I can think of where the outcome of the clicks I make are not influenced by any device I use to click the button. For example, clicking 1000 times with a finger will not result in more loot than clicking 1000 times with a lego machine.

I know you guys are busy, but would really appreciate an in-depth reply rather than a copy and paste one .

Many thanks in advance for any information you can supply to clarify this point.

Pinky

p.s Whenever I type a support case, the letters appearing on the screen don’t keep up with what I type… is this just me?

10 Jul 2008 Entropia Support:
Hi,

Thank you for your message. We will need to come back to you in August with a reply to these questions. We hope that is ok with you?

About the writing of the support cases, which web browser do you use? Do you have the same issue when writing in text areas on any other website?

Kind regards,
Entropia Support

10 Jul 2008 You wrote:
Hi,
No problem.
I use IE (latest version) and no, only here

Cheers!

Pinky

11 Jul 2008 Entropia Support:
Hi,

Thank you for the update. We will send this info to our web developers to see if something can be done on our site to prevent this. What you could check is if the issue is the same in another web browser, for instance in Mozilla Firefox.

Kind regards,
Entropia Support

Anyone else have the typed letters dont keep up with you issue that uses another browser?

 

[Joser]

Yes, post number 72.

They asked me to wait until August - we figure due to the annual MA holiday.

Ahh... summer holidays. Must be nice to be outside.








grumbles to himself about not reading all the posts since he was last involved

 

[maximussmit]

It's strange - inventing or using automation for manual tasks in a real production economy is praised, and called being more compettitive. We look upon those visionaries as 'heroes', e.g. Ford. In EU it is called cheating. Why? Why is is not alright for someone to invent methods for keeping your factory (crafting) going without unnecessary pauses? The EU economy is called a 'real' economy. Why not let it thrive? Why limit productivity for those who want to progress?

(These questions are mostly rhetorical)

agreed.. Specially the bit about real world economy.

 

[JUmpingJAckFLas]

use autoclik in craft machine can influence something :

The amount of materiels and indirectly the price of it (less materials more hight price..)

isnt it ?

I saw in last VU descripition an autocliker for craft machine, no ?


regards

 

[Sarah Hawkwood]

It's strange - inventing or using automation for manual tasks in a real production economy is praised, and called being more compettitive. We look upon those visionaries as 'heroes', e.g. Ford. In EU it is called cheating. Why? Why is is not alright for someone to invent methods for keeping your factory (crafting) going without unnecessary pauses? The EU economy is called a 'real' economy. Why not let it thrive? Why limit productivity for those who want to progress?
(These questions are mostly rhetorical)

Factory doesn't give you skills. I mean fully automated factory. If there was something like mass production in EU, not involving any ava skills, I'm ok with fully automated processes. But what we have now is manufacturing, not industry. I still hope industrial revolution and mass production comes one day to EU. Not based on skills of one ava, but on economy.

Autoclickers are not the best thing anyway. Personally I think MA should just add them to crafting machines, as crafters use resources anyway, they burn peds through the system.

 

[Koister]

Anyone else have the typed letters dont keep up with you issue that uses another browser?

Sounds like a lag issue.

Switch to Firefox.. It's the best anyway

 

[timmmers]

Just a thought, but if you were manually clicking and HOFed.....would you carry on? I wouldn't, the chances of another seem slim to me...better wait until another day.

Skilling seems the only real advantage of autoclicking. Better buying them isn't it?

t

 

[Cytheria]

I believe those are called "children".


Bones

um... I have a confession...
If it requires a lot of standing around clicking. I pay my son to do it for me. When I played WoW and went fishing I paid my son a penny a fish.... BTW if you do this don't go to work while he is fishing.... when you get off work and find him still fishing and you owe him $20 or more... OUCH!

As per sitting there having a little robot click for you... I doubt its against the rules... BUT! if you have a software that does it... Then you have a good chance of getting in trouble. So just pay your kids to do it. I only hunt and Mine in EU so it leaves no room for me to pay my son to do something for me... lol saves money.

 

[Beki]

It's strange - inventing or using automation for manual tasks in a real production economy is praised, and called being more compettitive. We look upon those visionaries as 'heroes', e.g. Ford. In EU it is called cheating. Why? Why is is not alright for someone to invent methods for keeping your factory (crafting) going without unnecessary pauses? The EU economy is called a 'real' economy. Why not let it thrive? Why limit productivity for those who want to progress?

(These questions are mostly rhetorical)

ok, lets automate the most economical hunters in EU. Let's celebrate the fact that they own an IMk2 & Mod Fap.

Fine, no problems with that! Look at the Sodi 24Hr hunt thread........ a lvl 70ish hunter turns a 1k or so profit on a 24 hour hunt using some Economical gear. Lets automate that!!! The fact he made a great deal of his profit on skills is of course silly.................. only he did { and they are easily sellable}

Now I'm not having a go at Sodi, infact this thread has nowt to do with him. But if a "REAL" person can make a profit whilst using "UBER GEAR" and only "MODERATE" skills during a non-stop 24hr hunt just imagine a "UBER SKILLED" "UBER GEARED" player being automated.

If you really think that that will be good for business then you are a closed minded fool ( you may not be ofc, but I think you may be )

 

[Phil Surtees]

I am considering submitting a case of EULA violation regarding certain participants whose automated actions cost me a lot of peds. I am referring to that class of player collectively referred to as "mobs". They are constantly attacking me and interfering with my gameplay, and it is seldom that they pay suitable reparations.
This an outrage!

 

[gwit]

could the robot make tea?

 

[Nyxy]

Human beings are very sophisticated robots and they are not against the EULA. Therefore, the EULA allows robots, as long as they are very sophisticated.

 

[Hulle]

What if?

I have a friend that has made a little mouse that autoclicks when u rest your fingers on the right and middle mouse button.(warmth sensitive)
Its called A Uto clicker

Would that be considered autoclicking, You need to hold the mouse in your hand and rest 2 fingers on it. This way you avoid injury to your poor little index finger...


Oh, and what if I cant have children? And make little robots as a substitute?
Can I use them for clicking as if they were children? And maybe have a little bowl where i put quarters?

/Hulle

 

[eddiehell]

I just had to say, 10k clicks manually?????
My wrist hurts just from reading through this entire thread....
I can see the pros and cons of both sides of the issue, and i think the best solution is "adding autoclick or similar to the crafting machines."
I mean, what other LEGITIMATE use for an autoclicker would there possibly be in Entropia?? So, Mindark just needs to add it, then ANY other auto-click or macro software can be considered against the EULA.
Does anyone else agree that this would make a cut and dry solution?

 

[XeroX2]

yeah i think if MA would implement an AC software the crafting would increase allot in the entropia universe. Also the ppl would be able to looose way more peds there, so MA would earn more money. I am not a crafter, but as far as i heard there are some uber crafters who "allways" profit in tt value when they craft filters on condition? So that might be the reason why we still don`t have an AC connected to the machines.

 

[billairboy]

MA must decide firmly if "autoclick" will be allowed or not. If yes, then they must include that feature in EU. If not, they must take action and do it harder for users to use diffrent "autoclick" tools. One way is to intruduce random "jamming" events in the crafting machines. Lets say one jamming event each 50 click when the user is foreced to press one of three possible buttons (random button each event) on the machine to be able to continue to craft. Or they can do so the machines only can take material to craft 100 items each run, after that you must "reload" the machine with new material from the inventory.

In my opinion they must do more to make it harder to use bots/autoclickers if they have a rule against it.

 

[darth_bacon4]

Yeah... But how is it any different from them dumping thousands of peds into the machine and sitting there clicking away?

The outcomes still going to be the same. Except there will be a slow down in the progression of their carpal tunnel syndrome lol.

If everyone was shown how to use an auto-clicker for crafting.. I'm sure there wouldn't be much complaining about it anymore lol.

A lot of people don't like it, because they hate the fact that somebody else can sit and read or something while their items are crafting. While you have to click every few seconds while doing your reading or whatever lol.

It's like the guy who lived next door to the person who invented the car. And had to watch as his neighbor drove to work every morning, while he had to bike.

yes you're right go ahead out with it how do you use an auto clicker? LOL!, as for me I see nothing (ethically) wrong with auto-clicking for crafting...perhaps even mining and hunting but as for skilling dodge/evade with a bot that is wrong to me, (unless the player is going to keep the skills he gains) as afterwards he can just sell his skills, thus having an unfair advantage, but crafting with an autoclicker and crafting by hand give you no such advantage.

 

[Shadowmage]

I'm sure that if you accidentally cut off your clicking finger/s and send a support case including pictures to MA, they'll make an exception for you

 

[PINKY]

Forgot all about this thread - I got an official reply from MA regarding the lego mouse clicking machine....

19 Aug 2008 Entropia Support:
Hi Pinky,

Thanks for the bump. To answer your questions we refer to the Eula §5, second paragraph:

"The Participant also agrees not to hack into or interfere with any data communication to or from the Entropia Universe servers, clients, and systems, as well as not to use any other software than the Entropia Universe Client to interpret or influence data sent to or from the Entropia Universe server and client systems. The Participant also agrees upon not using any Third Party software or equipment that influences the Entropia Universe in any way. The Participant agrees upon not tampering, removing (except complete uninstallation), adding, or changing the installed Entropia Universe Client Software and its associated files in any way whatsoever."

So as you can see no Third Party software or equipment that influences the Entropia Universe is allowed. If we find someone that does not follow the Eula, actions will be taken. The reason behind this policy is to protect the balance of the economy in Entropia, the Entropia community and the interests of Mindark.

Kind regards,
Entropia Support

I guess I kinda knew that was coming, but worth a try

Anyway, its official, physical machines, be them lego, mechano or hamster wheel powered, they are not allowed, just as bot programes are not.

Even if its just clicking at a crafting machine...

 

[Loafers]

Forgot all about this thread - I got an official reply from MA regarding the lego mouse clicking machine....



I guess I kinda knew that was coming, but worth a try

Anyway, its official, physical machines, be them lego, mechano or hamster wheel powered, they are not allowed, just as bot programes are not.

Even if its just clicking at a crafting machine...

Wow lol thanks for the info.

 

[Lavawalker]

Anyway, its official, physical machines, be them lego, mechano or hamster wheel powered, they are not allowed, just as bot programes are not.

Even if its just clicking at a crafting machine...

Thanks for the update Pinky

Unfortunately this does not resolve what goes on and has gone on for the last several years by the *greater* portion of the participant base with the know-how or access to such programs and/or devices, including most keynote participants using them or having used them in the past.

From a competitive point of view with the upcoming RCE game still in alpha, EU will have some steep disadvantages to address here.

Another non RCE game starting with W did not obtain it's 10 million + active account status via making the system hard to use.

In terms of ease of use, MindArk can only improve the TT burn/decay which is processed by people each session/day via making improvements to the user input interface which drives such activites, hence improving the organisations bottom line and from an external investors perspective giving a more appealing positive as to the revenue generation potential of the service offering with such 'ease of use' improvements in place.

Something to think about MA , think outside the square EU currently resides in and start to think in broader terms of the real world scope that the IPO will open MindArk and Entropia Universe up to.

MindArk's creation of worlds of entertainment such as Calypso may not be the primary business focus of MindArk in the short term, yet still as the secondary arm of the business it still does directly effect the primary business in achievable earning potential long term, including the earning potential(s) of partner world(s).

Take Care,
Sparkz

Footnote references :

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/about-entropia-universe/98052-some-marcos-past-comments-about-decay-mindarks-revenue.html

I actually had a suggestion for MA to incorporate an autofire action library key which would keep firing/clicking the equipped tool (ie Scanner) until a *mob dies* or *weapon/tool at minimum condition* event occurs (or any other action performed ie. Fap, movement, etc would also cancel the autofire action library routine) coupled with an update to the crafting UI to start crafting till cancelled or *out of resources* event or *out of inventory space* event occurs.

As an addition to the mechanics of the above suggestion, MindArk could also implement that the autofire action library routine would only run for a set period of time, eg. 5 mins, of which if one of the above events do not occur, the user would have to press the action library key again to continue the process and in the case of crafting, repress the autocraft button to keep the particpant *present* in front of the computer whilst the routine is active.

If the key/button is not repressed and the user has not changed activities/actions, the user will be automatically logged out if not done so within a designated period (eg. 2mins) after the initial autofire routine was activated.

This will stop *unattended botting* and is termed as *attended automation*, from the point of implementing such mechanics within the service offering, MindArk could then in a more justified way enforce rules governing such activities using scripting hosts / autoclicking devices.

 

[kingjoe1974]

Since you can use the keyboard now for crafting by pressing Tab key until you get to manufactor then just press space bar, this will auto craft for you.

there should have been more info posted about this but the word is slowly getting out.

so how do I feel about using something to craft for you.

well since they allow us to use the keyboard and the EULA says no third party programs or machines to affect EU are allowed. The last I looked the keyboard is a machine that effects EU.

I really dont care what people do as long as they are not bothering me, or taking away from my gaming experience in any way.

Use third party macros, children, girl/boy friends, husbands/wives. I dont really care.

Good Post +rep

 

[PINKY]

Thanks for the update Pinky

Unfortunately this does not resolve what goes on and has gone on for the last several years by the *greater* portion of the participant base with the know-how or access to such programs and/or devices, including most keynote participants using them or having used them in the past.

SNIP

Yeah, I give you that, but in fairness I only asked them if a clicky buttony machine could be used for crafting as it doesnt alter the outcome or influense the game in any way... which is what they answered. What you are asking is a whole other support case

Wow lol thanks for the info.

i know, took them over a month to copy and paste the EULA for me Bless! I have visions of some low ranking support bod going "shit, mechanical devises, we will have to wait for Marco or Cornelia (is that the right name for customer services?) to get back from holiday before we takcle that one" only for Marco to come striding in saying "Copy and paste the EULA FFS!"

 

[Lavawalker]

Yeah, I give you that, but in fairness I only asked them if a clicky buttony machine could be used for crafting as it doesnt alter the outcome or influense the game in any way... which is what they answered. What you are asking is a whole other support case

Aye, sorry Pinky, I was not directing the post entirely at a single support case response, more keeping to the flow of the thread discussion whilst incorporating your response from MA as best I could into my post

Thanks much for placing the support case forward, great idea.
I borrowed the idea of doing something similar in a previous land tax thread

+ rep to you for your effort.

Sparkz

 

[Strangelove]

i know, took them over a month to copy and paste the EULA for me

Maybe support just forgot to restart the "copy and paste EULA" bot after the last crash.

 

[Chimp]

...I guess I kinda knew that was coming, but worth a try

Anyway, its official, physical machines, be them lego, mechano or hamster wheel powered, they are not allowed, just as bot programes are not.

Even if its just clicking at a crafting machine...

Imagine my chagrin

Well, despite the fact I've moved into crafting recently and get why people want to use them I'm really glad officially they count as against the EULA.

A lot of the time you stumble over tamers and crafters standing there while their PC does all the work for them and disappear of to pub or bed while others are following the rules and actually playing the game.

I was bitterly disillusioned when I came across someone who I admired early in my time here and it turned out they were botting/using an AC (sorry...apparantly that one turned out to be they were just ignoring me and their entire Soc).

Sure, some people want to make a lot of cash here and think it's an easy way to increase their skills; imho they should do what everyone else does and buy them if they are that desperate.

Situation might be different if they are disabled (arthritis perhaps)...but that's another thing and at least they are at the keyboard taking part.

Someone once posted that they were skilling 'socialising' when I first joined and I didn't get it. I do now. Think the concept is a little beyond your average AC even if it is made of Lego

More someone progresses in the game, the less respect I have for them if they use an AC. Just my opinion and if they change the rules I'll reconsider my position on it.

Until then, they are cheats and don't deserve my respect.

Well, that's half my fl pissed at me. Got one word for them: TOUGH!

If I'm willing to get RSI to progress I don't see why anyone else shouldn't.

 

[P-J]

deleted post

 

[ermik]

when you see someone getting a crafting ath and then seconds later gets more globals you know its a autoclicker.

100% of all ppl would stop clicking to check the loot if they got ath while being physical clicking the crafting machine.

have no actual saying about autoclickers , i dont craft so i dont use em.

// ermik

 

[CyberPunk]

I've been told and am under the impression that crafting skills are cheaper to buy than to earn, so if someone is using an AC to gain skills, the joke's on them; however, if they are already skilled and using AC to profit then joke's on us =)

Either way, AC is a joke