MU Returns

[Aio]

Is it me, or is it completely pointless to actually save up loot and sell in bulk anymore?

Apart from some incredibly rare items in loot (some components with droprates of perhaps 0.001 or lower) it seems that it's actually more worthwhile to TT everything rather than save it up.

It doesn't look as bad when you check the average MU - 20kped sold daily of item X at 105% - but when you go to sell item X, the auction is full of people selling at 100.22% or similar. Where does the MU stat come from? Go and check for yourself, on any regularly looted component / animal part, the MU is massively overrated on the market value section compared to current auction saleprices.

Additionally, it seems some people are willing to sell at a loss on auction (250.5 ped tt for 260 ped - auc fee .59ped, = 9 pec loss). What? And it's not just an uncommon trend. People list stacks for SB @ TT - and then those stacks sell at TT.

Seems like a real issue ingame at the moment - even worse than before when we had peds/pecs only in loots - as at least back then, when an item did drop, it was sellable. Now, thanks to L items (which in themselves are not a particularly bad thing) even when you do get a big item drop, it's practically unsellable as well.

I've spent 2kped through Enblade pioneer 6 MM editions - putting in time, that's around 20 hours of hunting. My pedcard is now at 0 - not cos the returns were shit; I actually made enough so that selling at 102% would cover my losses. But now I have 1.95k ped of random bits of shit that just won't sell on auction.

Obviously there is a solution to not use the auc and go stand in twins for a day - but I don't want to spend my leisure time bored out of my mind. I was perfectly willing to take that auction fee loss as my impatience fee. But now, there's no point at all selling on the auc.

Eventually, yes, all items will sell. But to hunt even at my skilling SB rate of 100ped/hr, I'd need a pedcard of 10kped at least just to keep going due to the time it takes to sell anything.

Anyone think of a solution to this problem; either from our end or MAs? Cos I don't see how they can actually fix this market issue.

 

[toad]

Before mayhem fine leather and wool thread had nice MU, now not so very good, but today is the last day of mayhem so i predict a MU increase soon

 

[Viperstrike]

Anyone think of a solution to this problem; either from our end or MAs? Cos I don't see how they can actually fix this market issue.

There are many solutions one can apply, but it would involve much time and development to do such things.

The problem is when markets are overburdened by a huge supply issue, recovery of markup is 10 times harder due to the stigma element that people have of not wanting to pay more than they got it for last time.

Generally the best way about this is to go into another field of operation such as crafting or mining and identify where opportunities lay.

I know your mainly a hunter, but this is a game of adaption and survival and opportunity identification - And of re-education and awareness is needed sometimes. (not onyl for oneself by for the masses)

Take Care,
Viper

 

[dr3w]

It doesn't look as bad when you check the average MU - 20kped sold daily of item X at 105% - but when you go to sell item X, the auction is full of people selling at 100.22% or similar. Where does the MU stat come from? Go and check for yourself, on any regularly looted component / animal part, the MU is massively overrated on the market value section compared to current auction saleprices.

Such MU stat come from small batches, which selling for way higher MU than 105%. 105% is just avg.

Check closely, not first pages - but, for example - from last ones. Do you think, people (actually, alts, alts, alts and again alts - abusing amount of slots) listing 20 pcs of oil for 500% just for fun and nice screenshots?

Why someone buy 20 pcs? Tierings, single clicks of (L) BPs, and such stuff.

Check also names. Those never appear as "playing".

 

[Aio]

Such MU stat come from small batches, which selling for way higher MU than 105%. 105% is just avg.

Check closely, not first pages - but, for example - from last ones. Do you think, people (actually, alts, alts, alts and again alts - abusing amount of slots) listing 20 pcs of oil for 500% just for fun and nice screenshots?

Why someone buy 20 pcs? Tierings, single clicks of (L) BPs, and such stuff.

Check also names. Those never appear as "playing".

Agreed to some extent. This is why I listed the "20k ped sold". Obviously the MU is artificially inflated by small sales, but when the daily sold is 20000 ped - I highly doubt this comes from 20,000 1ped stacks.

It's as if the "average" MU is not calculated as we would logically expect - the total TT sold is added, and then the MU % is calculated. Rather, each individual sale %MU is added together and then divided by the total sales. Which is a ridiculous way to do it, but then again, it is MA.

Generally the best way about this is to go into another field of operation such as crafting or mining and identify where opportunities lay.

I know your mainly a hunter, but this is a game of adaption and survival and opportunity identification - And of re-education and awareness is needed sometimes. (not onyl for oneself by for the masses)

Agreed - but it's sad that it comes to this. There used to be real challenge in finding mobs to hunt which provided consistently good MU returns. Now it seems everyone is just hoping they get that nice unL item drop.

Mining will be where I turn if it continues - I've mined in the past quite successfully (moreso than hunting) but I find it incredibly boring. I'm not prepared to play the slots on crafting however...

Before mayhem fine leather and wool thread had nice MU, now not so very good, but today is the last day of mayhem so i predict a MU increase soon

Fingers crossed MU will be re-established when MM stops... But I doubt it. Also - isn't the last day 14th Jan?

 

[minim]

Agreed - but it's sad that it comes to this. There used to be real challenge in finding mobs to hunt which provided consistently good MU returns. Now it seems everyone is just hoping they get that nice unL item drop.

It doesn't come to this This is the reason you made this thread since you cant find that mob

 

[Artrat]

It's as if the "average" MU is not calculated as we would logically expect - the total TT sold is added, and then the MU % is calculated. Rather, each individual sale %MU is added together and then divided by the total sales. Which is a ridiculous way to do it, but then again, it is MA.QUOTE]

I think this is what happens, and yes, it is a dumb way to do it.

 

[pesa]

I believe the overall low MU of ingredients is partly because hunters are close to self sufficient for "items" like weapons. So many weapon drops that demand for crafted items as weapons drops, hearby lowering the MU of ingredients.

 

[remontoire]

Is it me, or is it completely pointless to actually save up loot and sell in bulk anymore?

Apart from some incredibly rare items in loot (some components with droprates of perhaps 0.001 or lower) it seems that it's actually more worthwhile to TT everything rather than save it up.

Yes, it is you. When there are events, the event mob loots drop drastically, so if you want MU, do not hunt any mobs that loot anything similar. Or loot good amounts of stuff that those mobs don't drop. This has baan like that in previous events too. That a lot of crafters hunt instead of making use of the extra supply doesn't help, I guess.

 

[STYRM]

this is why a big bank roll is absolute key to making maximum profit on every item you want to sell!

to be able to storage stuff you know use to sell for alot more and list in auction when the demand goes up again.

and if you don't know your loot, then shame on you

 

[aridash]

pointless to sell anymore? it always was. you'll get a few % markup for most hides and wools (refined) and some oils and residues. the common ones, by the nature of loot, are only worth 1-2% and countless times i've listed 200-500ped batchs without sale. less than that you arent covering the auction. all the other stuff is tt food, theres only a market because a few people make a trade on auction. its been like this ever since they moved from ped to all materials in loot. theres no real market in those materials, just assume they are tt food.

 

[remontoire]

pointless to sell anymore? it always was. you'll get a few % markup for most hides and wools (refined) and some oils and residues. the common ones, by the nature of loot, are only worth 1-2% and countless times i've listed 200-500ped batchs without sale. less than that you arent covering the auction. all the other stuff is tt food, theres only a market because a few people make a trade on auction. its been like this ever since they moved from ped to all materials in loot. theres no real market in those materials, just assume they are tt food.

Lets imagine all of those were 110% ... What would you do then? Obviously anything being crafted from these will need to be more expensive (and so on). Not everything can have uniform high markup. For winners to exist, there must be losers, or a external source of money flowing in.

But people generally discount the loot selling at 102%-104% too much.

 

[minim]

pointless to sell anymore? it always was. you'll get a few % markup for most hides and wools (refined) and some oils and residues. the common ones, by the nature of loot, are only worth 1-2% and countless times i've listed 200-500ped batchs without sale. less than that you arent covering the auction. all the other stuff is tt food, theres only a market because a few people make a trade on auction. its been like this ever since they moved from ped to all materials in loot. theres no real market in those materials, just assume they are tt food.

that's why it's good to have a bankroll to not sell when it's 101-102% and just keep it for when MU rises on that item/resource.

 

[mastermesh]

It's as if the "average" MU is not calculated as we would logically expect - the total TT sold is added, and then the MU % is calculated. Rather, each individual sale %MU is added together and then divided by the total sales. Which is a ridiculous way to do it, but then again, it is MA.

Be careful what you ask for. MA uses auction for market history now. If they were to start using real averages, they might need to start calculating p2p trading, shops, etc. in to the calculations as well, which likely would make markup even go lower since many shops and direct sellers who bypass the auction sell below auction prices. Honestly, I think it'd be good for the economy somewhat if they'd start adding in these other type of sales too so that the average markup starts tanking more to become more realistic to new folks who have not built up massive lists of contacts yet, etc., and so that market history info actually shows the prices that things are going for across the board in game - not jut in auction, allowing for lots of various auction market manipulations that happen daily over and over and over again, but I suspect many would not agree with that being a good idea since they like the artificially high markup they see in market history info now courtesy of your friendly neighborhood market manipulating resellers.

 

[aridash]

For winners to exist, there must be losers, or a external source of money flowing in.

well exactly - there's no real economy because nothing is produced, nothing is created, no value is added to anything. some materials are 105-110% or more and worth holding onto to sell. when were animal oil residue ever worth anything? Andrenal, eye and thyroid have only been a couple of % at best *if* you could sell it. dozens of other materials are listed as being worth 110%, 120%, 150%... then you see they have weekly or monthly volume of a 100 ped, so you stack represents a whole months demand and wont sell. hell i've tried trading for 0.5% in twin before and had no one interested. i do wonder how much ped value is tied up in people waiting for the price to improve. or people stack it up to skill crafting and lose anouther 10%+ value in the process

 

[Aio]

well exactly - there's no real economy because nothing is produced, nothing is created, no value is added to anything. some materials are 105-110% or more and worth holding onto to sell. when were animal oil residue ever worth anything? Andrenal, eye and thyroid have only been a couple of % at best *if* you could sell it. dozens of other materials are listed as being worth 110%, 120%, 150%... then you see they have weekly or monthly volume of a 100 ped, so you stack represents a whole months demand and wont sell. hell i've tried trading for 0.5% in twin before and had no one interested. i do wonder how much ped value is tied up in people waiting for the price to improve. or people stack it up to skill crafting and lose anouther 10%+ value in the process

There was that wonderful time when muscle was at 108%; obviously unsustainable but just 105% would be pleasant now and again.

While I completely agree with those saying bankroll is everything - it is, and I tell this to many people - there must be something broken in the game when a $10/hr turnover requires a $1000 bankroll (if not more).

Honestly it probably comes down to the amount of people playing the game - more specifically, the ratio between hunters:miners:craftersther.

Obviously MM is having an effect on certain MU's - but following the same thought pattern, those items which do not drop from kerby/spids should have seem a rise in MU... and I can think of very few which have.

 

[STYRM]

There was that wonderful time when muscle was at 108%; obviously unsustainable but just 105% would be pleasant now and again.

While I completely agree with those saying bankroll is everything - it is, and I tell this to many people - there must be something broken in the game when a $10/hr turnover requires a $1000 bankroll (if not more).

Honestly it probably comes down to the amount of people playing the game - more specifically, the ratio between hunters:miners:craftersther.

Obviously MM is having an effect on certain MU's - but following the same thought pattern, those items which do not drop from kerby/spids should have seem a rise in MU... and I can think of very few which have.

1000$ as a bank roll when having a 10$/hour cycling machine is to me perfect. to be on the safe side I would like even more.. maybe 2000$.

 

[Aio]

1000$ as a bank roll when having a 10$/hour cycling machine is to me perfect. to be on the safe side I would like even more.. maybe 2000$.

I don't mean to go on but... by that same valuation, a brand new player using an Opalo (1.53pec/s cost) would need a bankroll of 5000-10000 ped. You can surely see why this is ridiculous?

 

[toad]

Bankroll is only recommended not a must but without it is hard to save up and sell for MU

I don't mean to go on but... by that same valuation, a brand new player using an Opalo (1.53pec/s cost) would need a bankroll of 5000-10000 ped. You can surely see why this is ridiculous?

 

[Sircus]

Is it me, or is it completely pointless to actually save up loot and sell in bulk anymore?

Answer: Yes, its pointless.

Dump everything that to tt machine that cant be sold fast on orders and buy a cld to put in your storage instead.

Why collect useless stacks of tt food with 105% mu in storage? The bound peds serves no purpose.
You should probably look at it like this, every ped bound in storage is -25% per year for you.

All those small stacks with 115%-120% mu that you save adds up to a whopping amount of bound tt.

 

[Az Bloodz]

We have different planets, different mobs and kinda different economies. There was a time you could sell Thryoid Oil pretty well on RT if I remember correctly (115%). Now it's just find the right mob and find the right time and place to sell your loot. It is still possible but kinda hard since most people rely on market history and there are some specialists who will always undercute this history no matter what.

 

[steffel]

to me it is just too many different materials being looted, so the stacks are crappy small even when camping one mob. i am usually dropping the stacks into storage but mostly end up tt'ing them too since it's not worth selling.

all those extractors, tiering and enhancer materials are just too many imo, that should be simplified for the pleasure of both hunters and crafters.

sadly MA and PP are just adding and adding and adding new items, probably they think they can balance it better instead of just using the existing ressources in new blueprints. for the average hunter who does this mob today for a while and tomorrow another mob, it is really not convenient. also for newcomers it can be quite overwhelming finding 20 different ressources in loot from one mob.

 

[Aio]

to me it is just too many different materials being looted, so the stacks are crappy small even when camping one mob. i am usually dropping the stacks into storage but mostly end up tt'ing them too since it's not worth selling.

all those extractors, tiering and enhancer materials are just too many imo, that should be simplified for the pleasure of both hunters and crafters.

sadly MA and PP are just adding and adding and adding new items, probably they think they can balance it better instead of just using the existing ressources in new blueprints. for the average hunter who does this mob today for a while and tomorrow another mob, it is really not convenient. also for newcomers it can be quite overwhelming finding 20 different ressources in loot from one mob.

Agreed.

On the point of crafters, there is a minimum they will drop their item prices to. Just because they sell their product at 140% when they buy at 110%, does not mean they will sell at 131% when they buy at 101%. More likely, they will still sell at 140%, and the hunters get fucked from both ends both buying the item and selling their loot.

 

[Az Bloodz]

Agreed.

On the point of crafters, there is a minimum they will drop their item prices to. Just because they sell their product at 140% when they buy at 110%, does not mean they will sell at 131% when they buy at 101%. More likely, they will still sell at 140%, and the hunters get fucked from both ends both buying the item and selling their loot.

Highly dependant on the item. If only a handful crafters have the BP I agree on this issue but if it is something common most crafters will buy the material at 120% and undercut each other until they dump the product into the TT.

 

[SpikeBlack]

I believe the overall low MU of ingredients is partly because hunters are close to self sufficient for "items" like weapons. So many weapon drops that demand for crafted items as weapons drops, hearby lowering the MU of ingredients.

It's also the huge over supply of them. The more certain mobs are hunted the more crap loot they'll need to drop. Taking into account the number of people camping mobs and you'll see even the my items dropping to TT levels. The Halix on Ark had a 150% hide which now is dropping to TT level thanks to over supply.

 

[M Rufen Power]

Eventually, yes, all items will sell. But to hunt even at my skilling SB rate of 100ped/hr, I'd need a pedcard of 10kped at least just to keep going due to the time it takes to sell anything.

And there is your UREKA moment. A nice big ped balance, so enjoy your next deposits .

 

[Aio]

And there is your UREKA moment. A nice big ped balance, so enjoy your next deposits .

I really don't think that's a eureka moment...

 

[Harmony.]

I would like it if you all just throw the stuff in the trade terminal, less supply means more markup for me

Except ofc for the stuff i craft with, you should never tt those!

 

[remontoire]

when were animal oil residue ever worth anything?

Animal oil residue is worth only marginally less than energy residue, because there have always been - and continue to be - blueprints that are profitable, and can take animal oil residue instead of other types. The price of animal oil residue, otoh, is low. Because people crafting the things taking animal oil residue end up crafting thing giving animal oil residue anyways, so they don't have much need for it.

Millions of PEDs worth of wools are looted every year, but what is the use of it? Its not like we use things made from wool in our daily hunting or mining? With MA releasing yet another series of crafted weapons that are only very slightly better than looted guns in TT eco, unfortunately it does not sound likely there will be a reversal in the suckyness of loot (markup) anytime soon either.

Its like the hides and armors - for the armors to make any impact, the armor would need to be significantly better after markup than UL armors, and it would need to be available, so no bullshit with limited blueprints. Except MA will not do this, because they want to protect "investments".

 

[Neil Stockton]

It's as if the "average" MU is not calculated as we would logically expect - the total TT sold is added, and then the MU % is calculated. Rather, each individual sale %MU is added together and then divided by the total sales. Which is a ridiculous way to do it, but then again, it is MA.

This is the conclusion I came too. I haven't "tested" it, but it's the only explanation that seems to fit these cases. Also, I believe shop sales are included in this average MU number, so the portion of the playerbase that buys from shops at inflated prices might contribute to this effect.