Multiaccounts / shared accounts ingame - please share your opinion

[The Goat]

Just because multiple accounts/multiple people on accounts is considered taboo doesn't necessarily make it wrong.

If someone is making multiple accounts for manipulations, scamming, or as Girtsn said random mining hofs that is obviously frowned upon and should be addressed. If someone is making multiple accounts because they grind on their main avatar for hours and hours and have too much crap to sell at 1 time on auction, and need an auction broker - what is wrong with that? If they are doing every thing legitly and just need the extra space on auction, in my eyes there is nothing wrong with that.

If you want to have someone play your avatar then so be it. I let my girlfriend play my avatar in the beginning and she became a full time player herself. She deposited $100s of dollars and played for ~3-4 years. She still gets on my account to play here and there and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Magyar_Republic]

Just because multiple accounts/multiple people on accounts is considered taboo doesn't necessarily make it wrong.

If someone is making multiple accounts for manipulations, scamming, or as Girtsn said random mining hofs that is obviously frowned upon and should be addressed. If someone is making multiple accounts because they grind on their main avatar for hours and hours and have too much crap to sell at 1 time on auction, and need an auction broker - what is wrong with that? If they are doing every thing legitly and just need the extra space on auction, in my eyes there is nothing wrong with that.

If you want to have someone play your avatar then so be it. I let my girlfriend play my avatar in the beginning and she became a full time player herself. She deposited $100s of dollars and played for ~3-4 years. She still gets on my account to play here and there and there is nothing wrong with that.

Though Im with you on certain areas on this thread, I'm against you here. This is a clear violation of a deliberate construct of EU.

I'm ok with people having multiple accounts registered to an IP if they keep the characters separate. IE they are owned by different people, or operated as different people (maybe you really like the game and just find your main character boring sometimes -- dont know why but for the sake of argument). To operate an account as a glorified storage container with auction access is the essence of what is wrong with multi-accounting.

This is where we are getting all the complaints about auction bots from.

 

[Konve]

- in regards to whatever else might be your reason to take a certain stance on this topic

On the topic of "Are people actually only using one account?" - the answer is no.

Let's let the cat out. Everyone who's someone has more than one account. Sure, I exaggerate, but you can bet your hat that the use of multiple accounts is wide spread.

If I had to estimate, 1 in 15 of the people I've known over the years have used more than one account.

On topic but completely irrelevant: Upon my first ever visit to Fort Zeus - back in 2003 - I exclaimed my delight of getting the most distant TP into the local chat channel. What's next, some random dude tells me he just reached it himself - for the ninth (!) time. This random dude, incidentally, went on to be one of the most prominent names of Entropia history.

Edit: And, of course, Mindark has known about and tolerated multiple-account use on many occasions. Not always, but sometimes. And being someone sure has helped in not being punished.

 

[dr3w]

If someone is making multiple accounts for manipulations, scamming, or as Girtsn said random mining hofs that is obviously frowned upon and should be addressed. If someone is making multiple accounts because they grind on their main avatar for hours and hours and have too much crap to sell at 1 time on auction, and need an auction broker - what is wrong with that? If they are doing every thing legitly and just need the extra space on auction, in my eyes there is nothing wrong with that.

Since there is 30 max slots per ava - it's on purpose.

I can make multiple avatars and sell my stuff, meanwhile continue mining myself. Many people will be not happy. I can undercut anyone. I can sell in smaller batches for higher prices, thus, take advantage of multiple slots from my "alts".

And I really faced that problem with my 30 slots, yes. But instead (as many people does) of creating alts - I working with friend of mine, who selling some of my stuff, and he takes his share. So I can concentrate on mining.

All those "limits by MA" and "I not see nothing bad" is just excuses.

Those, who is PED-wise rich ones, and with alts - they are very poor - they can't afford honest playing.

 

[pepetheone]

Many issues has been brought up regarding multiple avatars. As far as I can judge: MA can only discourage it...not ban it. I know a couple of players who have tons of avatars. MA bans them..they just make a new one.

The only real problem I see is that a space pirate with multiple avatars can control space...just post a couple of Quads near the SS and you see who leaves the planet any given time.

my 2 pecs

Regards, Roni

 

[Saradu]

Personally, I am against having multiple accounts for the benefit of 1 person. I can remember when ME items were highly prized and people made multiple noob accounts to afk heal on a daikiba to try to get these items. I can say I did this too once and was not successful.

On the other hand, my wife had an account at one time as well when we only had 1 computer that could run the game, I would have been pretty upset if I was policed against and had my account/ip banned for having 2 accounts on 1 comp/ip.

Yes this could be tricky. I started my account in the United States. Roni brought me into EU in November 2011. Since then I have moved in with him in the Netherlands. We both have our own computers, we both deposit in a different manner. He plays a lot more than I do. I would hate to see problems because it shows two accounts online from the same home.

 

[ermik]

One time during migration, i tp´d out randomly into big eamon spawn (stalkers)

landed next to 2 avatars , one avatar had close to 1 in all attributes and was holding a mod fap ( interesting gear for a noob )

and the other avatar was one of the biggest hunters in eu, member of warrants.

the noob ava was autofapping the bigger guy, how convenient

location was choosen to be sure to be alone on radar

so yes people use this, from high to low.

 

[sitram]

One time during migration, i tp´d out randomly into big eamon spawn (stalkers)

landed next to 2 avatars , one avatar had close to 1 in all attributes and was holding a mod fap ( interesting gear for a noob )

and the other avatar was one of the biggest hunters in eu, member of warrants.

the noob ava was autofapping the bigger guy, how convenient

location was choosen to be sure to be alone on radar

so yes people use this, from high to low.

How can you be sure it was auto faping?

His sister/brother/cousin/monkey/slave could be behind the noob avatar fapping.

 

[Killahbee]

I understand your point, but it's impossible for MindArk to do anything against it. They would have to Limit the amount of players per IP adres to 1. How can they prove its you and not your wife/husband/friend/uncle/brother/whatever playing on the other account?

 

[Spawn]

I say let live and let die.

If we ask for bans for all who have multiple accounts.. will we have a playerbase left?

I would like to stress that Mindark should ban/close whenever there is a suspicion of fraud, scams, etc.

When I started I had another acccount because there was a sweat cap and this way I could keep on sweating. Ok that was wrong, but I never gave it another thought, since I played this game for free.
Only after I became a depositor and started reading a forum, I didn't need the other account anymore.
I agree you should only have one account, but I would go mellow on the ones that have more than one. We need all the players we can get. If the alt players decay, then keep them on board. Besides Mindark has their hands full with bug-fixing, delivering new content. We don't need them to do police work unless there is a very good reason to do so.

 

[Xandra]

Hi,

Don't try to control something you can't control, period

^^ This.

It's impossible to prevent the fact, or even to prove it, of 1 person playing with 2 or more accounts.
It's impossible to prevent the fact, or even to prove it, of 2 or more persons playing with 1 account.

Read more ...

Please excuse, this is a topic of importance for all EU participants. It should not be on a planet specific forum, I feel. It's for all of us, not only for the Calypso inhabitants.

So my full reply is on a forum not-planet specific. I could have posted on EF, too, but this seems rather dead these days.

I'd kindly ask OP and everyone of you to think of where's a topic belonging to. Don't expect everyone and its Chirpy is reading PCF - there's other planets, too. Posting such topics in a planet-specific forum excludes a not-ignorable part of the EU community. You don't really want this, don't you?

Thx, and have fun!

 

[ermik]

How can you be sure it was auto faping?

His sister/brother/cousin/monkey/slave could be behind the noob avatar fapping.

call it gut feeling

 

[John B Knight]

At first Xandra, this thread has originally been posted in the general discussion forum of planet calypso since that is the place where we could get the most people to actually check it out and because just like you said its a general topic.
From a forum persepctive it might make more sence to post on a universal forum, but as long as the universal forum is viewed by less players then pcf it makes more sense running a general discussion thread where most players read. After all the thread can be linked to others and other forums and can still be read by people even if they usually dont read here.

On Topic:
I agree that it would be hard to enforce the ToU in regards to multiaccounts and that probably alot of people like to play differently at the game and gain advatages this way by working together.
However in my opinion the working together part should come from different unique avatars as that is what makes the online experience of the game - interacting continuously with others.
The community is also what tends to bind most people to stick together even when things sometimes dont run smooth.
So the question remains for me - does mindark want unique players or just as many accounts who create decay as possible ? Or even accounts who are active longer and create therefor more decay.


There is lots of ways how unique playeraccounts could be encouraged instead of the other way round, e.g.:

Involving more realworld skills, like for example extending hunting to be more physics related with players and mobs having bodyzones and evaluating damage based on where everyone is hit.
Disabling dragging of healthbars and introducing autoloot on the killshot regardless of distance (like already performed in pvp).
People would need to actually look out for the weak spots to do more damage or the hurt spots to heal more efficiently and this would require a real world player to actually do something that a makro for an botted multiaccount cant.
If mindark ontop of that allowed players who do real good at this to be more efficient then is possible currently then this would also encourage players to play with two accounts together instead of sharing one account.
There could be some kind of endurance level for avatars that would deplete after a healthy level of game hours has passed - like for example 15 hours - leading to the avatar becomming more inefficient if he keeps going after this amount of time has passed (more misses due to being tired, slower movement, delayed reaction time).

If ownership deeds actually needed to be kept on the avatar to manage what is claimed with them, this would allow that players would interact more with each other based on real trust or peds instead of claiming property with a multiaccount and then trading the account that has management rights around for personal benefits - or even utilizing it as a shared account without personal risk.

The above suggestions are just there to show that its very possible to encourage a rule even if it can not be enforced. You may have other ideas that could also work for encouraging to keep to the general rules indicated by the ToU.

The other option of course would be to just remove the rule and allow everyone multiaccounting /account sharing like also suggested in this thread before, but to me this later option would be damaging the level of immersion entropia universe has for me.

 

[forgo]

selling all.
(will likely take some time )


There we go, my reaction.


Those who think its OK or remotely OK, probably have an alt.

Some make excuses in life, apparently most play EU, or work for MA.

 

[jaywalker]

Agreed, the are numerous innocent reasons why people would have , or appear to have, multiple accounts. And it would be impssible for MA to enforce a ban on multiple accounts, due to people being registered from the same IP.

On the other hand there are those who do clearly use multiple accounts to gain "unfair advantage" over other players. At the futhest extreme of this scale, one crafter uses at least 4 accounts to extend his auction slots, manipulate the market, to transport his goods through space whilst continuing to craft, and he even attempts to drive other crafters out of business by strategically destroying the mu on some goods.

There are also those who multiple accounts to scam people, and/or escape bad rep

It should not be at all difficlt for MA to verify this kind of thing. Nor do they really need to prove that these people are one and the same, as these activities are mostly against the ToU, even if done by a group of people. If your "family" are nothing but your sockpuppets that will be even more obvious to MA than to the players, if they only take a look

The difficult probem then becomes how to prevent the same person from starting again with another new account? I sometimes suspect that MA let certain dodgy avatars be, because the players have come to know and avoid them, and better the devil you know...

But as for that crafter, well, it would hurt to lose all his skills, and it would likely be very difficult for him to sign up a whole new bunch of avas without first changing his address and IP, so worth banning. But despite a load of people making SC, they don't.

Why the heck not? MA and the player base are all better off without such people. Maybe he cycles a load of PED, but at the expense of how many other players who get driven away by his tactics?

If MA are not willing to address this kind of thing , they should let us all have 120 auction slots and a dummy ava on every planet. Yep that would screw things, but they're getting screwed anyway, and at least the honest ppl would be better able to compete; and the player base would surely improve as a consequence.

I don't want to be in a Universe where every successful ava is just like that one. (Too much like RL lol)

jay

 

[Xpl0jd]

1 person with 2 accounts = not allowed
2 persons on 1 account = allowed, but not recomended

nothing to talk about.

 

[Fishface]

The problem always comes of enforcement though. Most situations won't be as simple as they would seem. There will always be a "false positive", because no two people are alike. Even something straightforeward like:

There could be some kind of endurance level for avatars that would deplete after a healthy level of game hours has passed - like for example 15 hours - leading to the avatar becomming more inefficient if he keeps going after this amount of time has passed (more misses due to being tired, slower movement, delayed reaction time).

On my days off, I often will sleep between zero and three hours in a day. It's not unusual for me to do 18, 24, or even 40 hours in one marathon gaming session. Why not let my own endurance affect my hunting ability? You can't design a game around the cheaters. You design it around the players.

 

[jaywalker]

selling all.
(will likely take some time )


There we go, my reaction.


Those who think its OK or remotely OK, probably have an alt.

I once briefly logged in to a friend's account, at her request, to keep it active when she did'n't have internet access.

And I've sometimes let RL friends play my ava for half and hour, to see if i can interest them in the game.

Worst of all, I;ve asked an in-game frien to manage my account (ie keep it active, maybe sell my stuff, chip etc) on my son's behalf, should anything happen to me, since i was plannning to leave the account to him in my will, and he wouldn't have a clue how to manage it himself. (In the light of changes to the ToU, this no longer appears to be a viable proposition )

so, guilty, i guess.

I also know somebody who recreated his late wife as an alter ava in EU. That brought tears to my eyes when he intoduced her to me. You would ban him for that?

FFs stop thinking in black-and-white. Nothing ever really is black-and-white, this issue least of all


jay

 

[John B Knight]

The problem always comes of enforcement though. Most situations won't be as simple as they would seem. There will always be a "false positive", because no two people are alike. Even something straightforeward like:



On my days off, I often will sleep between zero and three hours in a day. It's not unusual for me to do 18, 24, or even 40 hours in one marathon gaming session. Why not let my own endurance affect my hunting ability? You can't design a game around the cheaters. You design it around the players.

That was a sample for an encouragement, not a suggestion for enforcement though
It could just as well be a weekly rythm of about 110 hours per 7 days and if you really exceeded that then you should probably be thankfull to mindark for aiming to protect you from heartattack due to overdone gaming.
But it would just as well work the other way round by giving a bonus, like 5% higher skillgain to avatars each day a certain amount of time (like for 1 hour) that could be accumulated and used when the player decides to go for it - alternatively the bonus could be higher when the avatar has less overall game time.
This would certainly discourage account sharing to some degree, but there would need to be an offset to make sure it doesnt lead to more multiaccounts - like for example involving the above mentioned realworld skills.

This is not meant as an suggestion to be done just like this Fishface, it is meant to show that there is possible ways to encourage playing by the general ToU rules without the need to enforce them and im sure we all could have plenty of ideas on how a goal can be reached with encouragement instead of enforcement - im sure most of us raise their kids through encouragement and not the other way round.

 

[Dan59]

Well hard to determine what is healty.
One cud hunt for a long but then put his ava on crafting machine until he eat or or for all night until he sleep or do other things or put ava on quad aiming on another planet and go wach a TV or sleep few hours or let afk sweat at neas and so on.
Or doing organised and planed witch hunt by analyisng warious trackers and seeing whos globaling all 24 hours to get idea who else is playing too much lol. But what type of fun such dude is looking in EU ? To be kind of policeman or to play ?
Im against multiple accounts but thats MA problem at first - they shud find a balance between wishes to have a lot accounts ( they liked to write more than milion accounts ) and possible restrictions to minimise negative effects lke auction manipulations and other.
I know nobody cant compete with multiperson driven ava 24/7 but who care - lets ask yourself it is only goal in EU some kind of competition race or you are in game for relax, to socialise and have fun too?
If we aproach witch-hunt/police terror path then we will lost last pice of what im already missig from old PE -you cud play for days in peace with nobody arround.
We will end with each hunting spot crowded with ppl with quads, cars or simple running - not to hunt, just to look what player do , how he is doing and how long is he playing.
Do you like to hunt with 5 quads on your head laging you and few sporadic runers agroing on you all mobs arround and some "noobs" wich we know that they are not - asking you things and repetedly asking for trade, to add on fl, to join a team , to join a soc or some trivial advice or just dieing in front of you after agroed entire crowd of mobs on you.
Do you like to be object of constant investigation and harashment?
Happened to me few times but if described situatiion have to evolve from sporadic to constant condition then i will realy hate EU.
Problem as OP posted exist but im afraid that whatever we ask or suggest to MA to do - it cud make EU just worse.
I bet we have a lot freeloaders ready to play EU inteligent service or EU CIA or EU FBI or EU KGB lol.
Do we want that ?

 

[Xandra]

Hi,

while I still think that this topic is OT here (in a planet-specific forum) and should better be discussed elsewhere (in an EU-wide forum) I also think that you deserve a reply, without forcing you to read my posts in such "another forum".

The other option of course would be to just remove the rule and allow everyone multiaccounting /account sharing like also suggested in this thread before, but to me this later option would be damaging the level of immersion entropia universe has for me.

There's a lot of games that allow this. Nearly all other games out there allow this. Does it really damage the level of immersion there?
Would it really hurt your immersion, playing your hard-core swordsman at the time, knowing that there'd be another avatar, a squishy MindForce specialized witch maybe? Or vice verse?

I'm not sure. So benefit of doubt to you.

But we have these rules regarding Multiaccounts/ shared accounts. Even if there's no way in hell to ever enforce them - you can invent measures as you like, they'll be circumvented with ease. Share your ideas, I'll deliver a way to avoid 'em in no time. And I'm not a cheater, I'm just an ordinary IT person.

Thus we have rules that don't really hinder any evildoer. But instead, especially seen regarding the wish to raise the limits, we have quite some ways how these ("improved") rules would severely hurt perfectly legit participants.

Is there a benefit in rules that:
a.) don't achieve their goals ("Hinder the evildoer!") at all, because they can be circumvented with ease, but
b.) instead cause a lot of collateral damage among perfectly legit players with less "criminal energy"?

I very well understand the emotions regarding this topic, and I don't neglect the damage that is done by 'em evildoers. And I, as any honorable participant, want to get them kicked out into the vast, cold void. We don't want them here, we don't need them here, may they suffer a slow, painful dead in a place we'd never ever even want to know about, as horrible as possible.

But there should be measures against it that work, and not ones that are pure cosmetics ("Look what I've done, I'm caring about you, really!"). And not stupid cosmetics that don't hinder them gangsters at all, but will hurt perfectly legit players instead once they use a setup not known to the average college kid.

Let's block the windmills axle, instead of whacking its vanes!

Have fun!