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My mining Theory

S

schnups

Provider
Joined
Jul 3, 2005
Posts
101
Ok,
in this Posting i want to declare how i think mining works.

Probably this posting won´t help you much to mine with more efficency but it could help you to understand how thinks could work and how skills (and tools) matters.

But beware this is only a theory, cause like everybody else (exept some MA-employes) i don´t know for sure how thinks work.
This posting even don´t want to explain how MA solved this problem.
The aim of this theory is to explain how the principles of a the PE-World could work.
Even if they are absolutely wrong you could learn a bit.
Cause as a programmer you have a lot of oportunities to reach a aim, but the principles are always the same.
(Indeed i will you show my theory with a strongly simplified example in order to make it more understandable to non-programmers)
So if you will understand this theory you can probably much more divide some myth from the things how the real system could work.

To make it more simple for me (my english isn´t the best ;)) i will write further on as my theory would be facts to save relatives.
But never forget this is only a theory how the princip of the system COULD work.

So lets beginn:
first: There are NO ores lying in the ground
everytime when a bomb detonates a great random number will be choosen.
The normal random-range is 1-100.000
if the bomb detonates in a "ore"-field (depending from coords) the number will be lowered (the more the bomb is in the field the more the upper-limit will be reduced)
For every founding in the last X-hours (regeneration time) the upper limit will be increased.

So the random will change like this
from (1- 100.000 -5000(for beeing in a orefield) + 15000(for the deposits found in the last X-hours)) =>
Random = 1-110.000

The number we got is 63211

No we have to compare this number to another number which will also created through a random function:
The normal random-range is 1-1.000
Now we count all skills together that affect mining with different modifiers,
lets say:
50 X Intelligence + 5XComputer + 10XGeology + 15XProspecting + 20 Groundassetment and so on.
this will give us a number, lets say 30.000 this number will be multiplied with the effiency from our Orefinder.
the better the orefinder is the higher the multiplier will be (if we can handle this orefinder well), lets say our multiplier is 3.
So we have a total sum of 90.000.
This will be added to our upper-limit.
No we have a rand from 1-91.000

If the chosen number is greater than 63211 we hit a deposit, if its smaller we have no resources found.

Lets say the number is greater, so we found something.

this will be bring us to the next randomfunctions:
At first we have to find what kind ore we find.
this is a very simple function.
The area we are in supplies only 3 or 4 types of ores.
so we take a basic-rand from 1-100
if the chosen number is between 1 and 60 we will find the common ore
if its between 61 and 90 we´ll find the mid-level ore
if its between 91 and 100 we´ll find the rare ore
for every pro-level we have in mining we get a plus 1 added to the minimum level
so lets say we have level 10.
Our personal random would be 11-100
the chosen number is: 63
This will mean we´ll find the mid-level ore

So the last thing we need will be the size of the deposit:
the size will be another random function including the loot-pool and probably many other factors....
this part probably includes a extra random which decides if you global/HOF or not (like rand 1-100.000 if the chosen number is 1 you global)



So thats my theory.
I hope you all understood how many factors could be wrong.
Cause there are so many ways you could change that system.
But most of changes would lead to the same results.
All i want to show with that theory is:
if you are well skilled your chance of finding ores is increased.
if you are well skilled your chance of finding rare ores is increased.
if you are well skilled but at the wrong place you have only a very small chance to find ores
if you are well skilled but to the wrong time at the right place (cause the were found many deposits in the regeneration time)you have only a very small chance to find ores

if you have only few skills you can find ores but your chance isn´t so high
if you have only few skills you can find rare ores but the chance is very small

So skills do matter (a lot), but you can even find the greatest HOF of the rarest ore without any skill
 
Well, about the no ores thingy lying in the grounds: You can find an unclaimed depo later. So no, it can't be completely random.
 
Yeah, I have dropped a bomb... run all the way to place the claim, but changed to a weapon instead of hitting "print claim".... quickly realized my mistake and dropped another bomb...and it found the mineral deposit in the exact same place....
 
ok u wanna no the truth... every deposit replenishes in the same spot every week or less since the game starte.d..nothing changed just the abundence of minerals and the fact that different amounts of minerals are beiong mined making it a russian roulette, 2 years ago it took skill no its all luck thus the uber noob hofs...

end of story
 
The Mighty said:
Yeah, I have dropped a bomb... run all the way to place the claim, but changed to a weapon instead of hitting "print claim".... quickly realized my mistake and dropped another bomb...and it found the mineral deposit in the exact same place....
Click to expand...

This is really interesting.
So i need to change my theory a bit,
the first random (the one from 1-100.000) seems to run autamatically and seeds the deposits in the ground.
And your random probably decides if you find it or not.

Would be interesting to know if someone always refinds a deposit, when he found it first and didn´t claim it.
 
The Mighty said:
Yeah, I have dropped a bomb... run all the way to place the claim, but changed to a weapon instead of hitting "print claim".... quickly realized my mistake and dropped another bomb...and it found the mineral deposit in the exact same place....
Click to expand...
As soon as someone "finds" the deposit, it stays there with the same size etc. If you don't claim it, everyone else will find it aswell. And i agree on that ores/enmatter do not lie in ground with fixed sizes etc.
 
geten said:
As soon as someone "finds" the deposit, it stays there with the same size etc. If you don't claim it, everyone else will find it aswell. And i agree on that ores/enmatter do not lie in ground with fixed sizes etc.
Click to expand...

i think it will dissapear when that claim time ends. like when you claim it, you get time for getting minerals. thats just what i think. havent tested it ;)
 
ok let me reiterate this... i no this is a fact and many "elite" miners use this...
2-3 years ago when i first started mining site were low in tt because not much ped circulation, but thier was many resource spots in certian places. now that thier is more of a tt because of the LA sales and stuff, thier are more miners... Thus instead of it being that a person mines the entire area, getting all the minerals and waiting 3 days for it to replenish, maybe a 1/3 was mined here and thier messing up the rotation of the mineral replace thus making it seem that the spot has moved when really the massive explosion of more miners and messed up respawn times has made it a roulette game. this is why noobs go out and bomb anywere and find uber hofs... Ill make a picture of it and repost it right now so u get my drift but im about 90% possative that its true.
 
[br]Click to enlarge[/br]


This first picture, strakkan(2 years ago), mines theroly(however u spell it),and gets all the minerals and waits 2-3 days for them to respawn...


[br]Click to enlarge[/br]


in this one, say bob mines a little, then tom mines a little more 2 hours later, then sue mines it liek a day later than tom, jimmy mines it like 3 hours after sue, and jerry mines the next day... well since its been 3 days, if a person like strakkan comes back thinking its gonna be all replenished and mines were jimmy, sue, and jerry mined, hes not gonna hit anything because the spot that bob and maybe tom mined are gonna be replenished...


3 words... messed up respawns ;)
 
Last edited:
theories abound - but it still comes down to poke and hope.
 
About ore and enmatter spawns

When it come to enmatter spawns, they definetly is not random. First of all, making ANY system even remotely close to a completely random generator would be a VERY bad move on MAs part if they want to ensure their systems give THEM profit instead of loss.
When it come to deposit sizes, they may or may not lie in the ground with fixed sizes, id say they dont have fixed sizes, but that they have given locations.
When you say ores spawn in more or less the exact same spot over and over again, id say "it appears so ,)"
I dont want to go too much into details on how this whole ore spawning thing works, for the same reason some people wont tell you other things.. Its valuable information..
 
ok, thank you very much for ur attention, now please explain 2 facts:

- perfect newbie in game hits in his 3rd day a 3k deposit of gazzurdite

- 2 hofs on ruga up to date, 1 by a newbie miner 1 by an uber (dunno if same place).

I like very much the points uberdude made, is one of the most expresional and reasonable points i seen in long time.

what i doubt, schnups, in ur theory, is the impact of skills. i think the skills are token out of the equation on the period of this meteor thingie.


regards,

K
 
Tigerman said:
First of all, making ANY system even remotely close to a completely random generator would be a VERY bad move on MAs part if they want to ensure their systems give THEM profit instead of loss.
Click to expand...

Absolutely not, the pricinples if have used in my theory BASE on random but this didn´t mean that there is much random in it.
If you roll a dice you can´t tell what number will come (some with dropping a bomb).
If you throw it 50 times, you can hardly guess how often the 1 will come.
If you throw it 1000 times you can probably say how often the number 1 will come with a false range of 50 counts or so.
But if you´ll throw the dice 100.000 times you can say how often the 1 will come with a false prediction range under 1%.

MA probably doesn´t care if they would make on a day a loss instead of profit if they totakl make a good profit at the end of the month.
Maybe they haven´t even a problem to make a loss on a complete Month if they would make a good total profit at the end of the year.

And now guess how many bombs will be dropped on a complete year, and then you can think how predictable this system will be.

For all who have an own webpage i´ve written a small dice-game to clearify prediction on a complete random function.
Just copy the code, name it xxx.php and upload it and have fun :D
(its very simpel but functional).
A roulette-game uses the same priciples, the casino doesn´t know which number will come next, but they know they will make profit on the long run.
PHP: 
<?php


for($i=0;$i<=10000; $i++) {
//line 4 starts a loop which starts with 0 and will go on to 1000,don´t change the number above ~200.000
	$number = rand(1,6);
//now we draw a number which can be randomly between 1 and 6
	switch($number){
		case 1:
			$one++;
			break;
		case 2:
			$two++;
			break;
		case 3:
			$three++;
			break;
		case 4:
			$four++;
			break;
		case 5:
			$five++;
			break;
		case 6:
			$six++;
			break;		
	}					
/*if the number would be 1 then $one would be increased by one, 
if the number would be 2 then $two would be increased by one and so on */

}

echo 'One: '.$one.'<br>'.'Two: '.$two.'<br>'.'Three: '.$three.'<br>'.'Four: '.$four.'<br>'.'Five: '.$five.'<br>'.'Six: '.$six.'<br>';

/* line 33: The output of our test, the greater the testing is (1000 or 100000) 
the more exact we can expect that every number will be exactly 1/6 of the total runs
or in other words the greater the run is the more will be the numbers the numbers the same*/


Kerham said:
ok, thank you very much for ur attention, now please explain 2 facts:

- perfect newbie in game hits in his 3rd day a 3k deposit of gazzurdite

- 2 hofs on ruga up to date, 1 by a newbie miner 1 by an uber (dunno if same place).

I like very much the points uberdude made, is one of the most expresional and reasonable points i seen in long time.

what i doubt, schnups, in ur theory, is the impact of skills. i think the skills are token out of the equation on the period of this meteor thingie.


regards,

K
Click to expand...


People who had never payled lotto before hit the jackpot...so where the problem?
(But don´t expect that it will happen to you too)
 
here is what i found during my time mining:

deposits respawns. its just not always the same type as the last time you mine there, and they spawn at different time intervals.

Some sites respawns the following day, other respawns a bit later (2 - 3 days)

The new VU (7.6) mixed up the mining sites. Thats why you dont find anything at your pre-7.6 "site" or, if your luckey, you will still find something, but it won't be the same size or type. (i used to mine Force Nexus at a site, now all i find is 1 deposit melchi water. Used to find 20 PED of nexus at a time)

just my "findings"
 
Snipe said:
here is what i found during my time mining:

deposits respawns. its just not always the same type as the last time you mine there, and they spawn at different time intervals.

Some sites respawns the following day, other respawns a bit later (2 - 3 days)

The new VU (7.6) mixed up the mining sites. Thats why you dont find anything at your pre-7.6 "site" or, if your luckey, you will still find something, but it won't be the same size or type. (i used to mine Force Nexus at a site, now all i find is 1 deposit melchi water. Used to find 20 PED of nexus at a time)

just my "findings"
Click to expand...

do they respawn at the exact same place or only nearby 20m or so away as i notice it with my findings.

I think there are areas with high chances and other with worse (and lots of steps between).
and maybe your areas respawn every day, but another miner works in a different time at the same place ;)
But i guess that every area has its own respawn time
 
Now, first of all, "areas" are defined by a combo of ores/en-matter.

Deposits do respawn in same area. Silver had a nice description at some time, if u make a grid with, let's say 100 m distance bewteen nods, the deposits circulates on those nodes. Today here, tomorrow or 5 days after, at 50m or 500 m further.

I think also that the general value (sum of the deposits) of the area varies, is not constant.

nevertheless, let this metheor go and only after that u will be able to read smth from the "system", now is ONLY a lottery coz MA inputs, from time to time, a "big chunk" in the loot, in completely absurde way - "big deposits which sucks nearby deposits".

we'll see.
 
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