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- Jan 11, 2012
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- 717
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- Nebula Virus Elite
- Avatar Name
- Kane Xane Crossing
This is a record of a recent attempt at negotiations for peace between Kronan, Varyag and Normandie. This was initiated by me and not at the request of any of the three ships crew or owners. Each ships choice to enter into or not enter into a peace agreement should not be considered right or wrong. It was stated in the beginning that the results of this peace talk would be made public, these are the results.
2017-02-17 16:12:00
✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ Negotiations for Peace ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱
The purpose for this dialog is to establish the terms for a peaceful coexistence between the Kronan, Varyag and Normandie.
The purpose of this dialog is not to determine blame for past events or to seek apologies for past grievances.
The owner of each ship should assign one representative to communicate on behalf of that ship to the other ships representatives.
Each ship should compile a list of demands that they require the other ships to comply with.
All communications should take place between the representatives until an agreement can be reached.
The agreed upon terms should be made public and posted in a forum thread.
This is not a negotiation between myslef and anyone, I am simply offering to facilitate the talks.
Please respond to this message with the name of your chosen representative or your reason choosing not to enter into peaceful negotiations.
✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱
UPDATE: 2017-02-19 00:47:49
Yoshii has chosen herself to represent the Varyag and will be posting her replies in #space_flight, thank you. Looking forward to her list of negotiations.
I have not received or heard of any response from the Kornan or Normandie as of yet. Please reply with your respective representative or reason for opting out of these peace talks, thank you.
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UPDATE: 2017-02-19 06:52:00
Granny Rowan says:
Firstly there can only be one person deemed appropriate to speak for any Mothership, and that is the owner. No-one else has my permission to negotiate in this, or any other matter, on behalf of myself or the Kronan. They may of course have their own opinions on space matters, which they are perfectly entitled to.
To be blunt... why would I trust Yoshii when she has so many times lied to us and about us ?
Why would I trust any promise or agreement with someone who changes her story depending on her audience and the time of day?
and why would I trust you as negotiator/facilitator ?
That you are a pirate is not an issue, space is pvp.
That you have on occasion harassed us ... a bit more of an issue
That you run a website with Yoshii that preaches free speech, but is really just somewhere you can both spout your nonsense and repeated lies about Kronan, and anyone else you don't like, puts your supposed impartiality in the bin.
Oh and btw just in case you are daft enough to believe the Kronie tapes, they are a work of fiction and badly edited besides
So while I feel sorry for Penelope for being caught between the opposing factions, I can honestly see no easy resolution.
If you were honest with yourself, would you want peace on Yoshi’s terms after years of harassment & lies ?
Would you allow the person who provoked endlessly, then declared war, to also dictate the terms of the peace ?
I am not a fool and have no wish to take part in this charade, nor in Christmas Panto either.
✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱
UPDATE: 017-02-19 07:15:16
Xane says:
First what does trust have to do with any of these negotiations? The down side of one party not upholding their end of the deal means your right back to where you are now. The upside is no more senseless fighting and that's not worth it?
If you have a problem with me then pick someone else to facilitate the talks but do something! I will walk away and someone else can take over.
I said clearly in the beginning that this was not to assign blame or talk about past events and that a representative should be assigned. All of these suggestions was to eliminate the personal grudges between the ship owners that is getting in the way of progress.
If you don't end up wanting to participate in any talks of peace or armistice let it be know that I do plan on making all of this public. I think the community has a right to know what's really going on.
Look at how much time you took to respond in the first place. Would it not have been easier to just send a list of things you require from the other side in order for there to be peace?
Me personally I just wanted this to be over or at least know which side was more willing to move forward and which side wanted to continue this pointless war.
✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱
UPDATE: 017-02-19 07:29:00
Granny Rowan says:
If the causes of a dispute are not looked at or discussed then the matter could never be resolved for those same causes would remain.
If there is no trust that all parties are going to keep their word then the negotiations are pointless and a waste of everyone's time
We did not start this war, we did not want this war, if the Varyag wants peace, then let them demonstrate it by their actions
If they are unable to behave in a civilized manner then the consequences will be entirely of their own making.
✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱
UPDATE: 2017-02-19 07:36:26
Xane says:
Again I'm not trying to make everyone BFF here, just trying to get everyone to stop shooting at each other....for example....tonight when trying to get things going on varyags end Morgoth destroys the varyag and loots the entire crew....not really demonstrating your story of "not wanting this war".
Stop trying to talk explain to me why you don't want to continue these negotiations I don't want to be apart of them. Either do it or don't.
✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱
UPDATE: 2017-02-19 07:53:00
Granny Rowan says:
A pirate complaining of someone doing pvp in space.. now that is something to hang on the wall.
As for the negotiations, I do not see them as credible, any more than several previous attempts I agreed to, and attended, only to yelled at and reviled. I have no wish to waste my time listening to BS.
✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱
UPDATE: 2017-02-19 07:56:00
Xane says:
The Kornan has said they do not wish to participate in any peace negotiations.
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UPDATE: 2017-02-19 08:04:00
Granny Rowan says:
CORRECTION : 2017-02-19 08:03:17
Granny Rowan owner of the Kronan said she had no reason to enter into any meaningless negotiations.
✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱
UPDATE: 2017-02-19 08:07:00
Xane says:
If no more progress is made in these talks after 24 hours I will post the results of these negotiations.
✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱
UPDATE: 2017-02-19 21:08:00
John Black Knight says:
Yoshii was informed about the criteria to get the tos kos status removed from varyag , she has not shown any honest consideration and instead together with nve pirates made a huge effort in spreading false propaganda about us and history in space.
Xane besides you we have been contacted by numerous members of varyag who want to start 'peace' negotiations but what it comes down to is that you and those members as well as Yoshii just want either an easy way out or another statement which you can twist in your aim to confuse the public.
Varyag team and NVE have both not been credible in this and there is no reason for us to put any trust in members of socs and organizations who use multiple alt accounts to spread rumors and slander.
If Yoshii wants the kos tag removed she will need to stop working with NVE, stop lying to newcomers, stop spreading false rumors and respectfully enter in negotiations about a settlement of the charges held against her - we however from her resent behavior do not expect this to happen any time soon. Therefor see no reason to talk.
✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱
UPDATE: 2017-02-20 00:29:00
Xane says:
The owners of the Kronan and Normandie have decided not to participate in this negotiation for peace. The peace negotiations are over.
✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱
2017-02-17 16:12:00
✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ Negotiations for Peace ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱
The purpose for this dialog is to establish the terms for a peaceful coexistence between the Kronan, Varyag and Normandie.
The purpose of this dialog is not to determine blame for past events or to seek apologies for past grievances.
The owner of each ship should assign one representative to communicate on behalf of that ship to the other ships representatives.
Each ship should compile a list of demands that they require the other ships to comply with.
All communications should take place between the representatives until an agreement can be reached.
The agreed upon terms should be made public and posted in a forum thread.
This is not a negotiation between myslef and anyone, I am simply offering to facilitate the talks.
Please respond to this message with the name of your chosen representative or your reason choosing not to enter into peaceful negotiations.
✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱
UPDATE: 2017-02-19 00:47:49
Yoshii has chosen herself to represent the Varyag and will be posting her replies in #space_flight, thank you. Looking forward to her list of negotiations.
I have not received or heard of any response from the Kornan or Normandie as of yet. Please reply with your respective representative or reason for opting out of these peace talks, thank you.
✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱
UPDATE: 2017-02-19 06:52:00
Granny Rowan says:
Firstly there can only be one person deemed appropriate to speak for any Mothership, and that is the owner. No-one else has my permission to negotiate in this, or any other matter, on behalf of myself or the Kronan. They may of course have their own opinions on space matters, which they are perfectly entitled to.
To be blunt... why would I trust Yoshii when she has so many times lied to us and about us ?
Why would I trust any promise or agreement with someone who changes her story depending on her audience and the time of day?
and why would I trust you as negotiator/facilitator ?
That you are a pirate is not an issue, space is pvp.
That you have on occasion harassed us ... a bit more of an issue
That you run a website with Yoshii that preaches free speech, but is really just somewhere you can both spout your nonsense and repeated lies about Kronan, and anyone else you don't like, puts your supposed impartiality in the bin.
Oh and btw just in case you are daft enough to believe the Kronie tapes, they are a work of fiction and badly edited besides
So while I feel sorry for Penelope for being caught between the opposing factions, I can honestly see no easy resolution.
If you were honest with yourself, would you want peace on Yoshi’s terms after years of harassment & lies ?
Would you allow the person who provoked endlessly, then declared war, to also dictate the terms of the peace ?
I am not a fool and have no wish to take part in this charade, nor in Christmas Panto either.
✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱
UPDATE: 017-02-19 07:15:16
Xane says:
First what does trust have to do with any of these negotiations? The down side of one party not upholding their end of the deal means your right back to where you are now. The upside is no more senseless fighting and that's not worth it?
If you have a problem with me then pick someone else to facilitate the talks but do something! I will walk away and someone else can take over.
I said clearly in the beginning that this was not to assign blame or talk about past events and that a representative should be assigned. All of these suggestions was to eliminate the personal grudges between the ship owners that is getting in the way of progress.
If you don't end up wanting to participate in any talks of peace or armistice let it be know that I do plan on making all of this public. I think the community has a right to know what's really going on.
Look at how much time you took to respond in the first place. Would it not have been easier to just send a list of things you require from the other side in order for there to be peace?
Me personally I just wanted this to be over or at least know which side was more willing to move forward and which side wanted to continue this pointless war.
✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱
UPDATE: 017-02-19 07:29:00
Granny Rowan says:
If the causes of a dispute are not looked at or discussed then the matter could never be resolved for those same causes would remain.
If there is no trust that all parties are going to keep their word then the negotiations are pointless and a waste of everyone's time
We did not start this war, we did not want this war, if the Varyag wants peace, then let them demonstrate it by their actions
If they are unable to behave in a civilized manner then the consequences will be entirely of their own making.
✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱
UPDATE: 2017-02-19 07:36:26
Xane says:
Again I'm not trying to make everyone BFF here, just trying to get everyone to stop shooting at each other....for example....tonight when trying to get things going on varyags end Morgoth destroys the varyag and loots the entire crew....not really demonstrating your story of "not wanting this war".
Stop trying to talk explain to me why you don't want to continue these negotiations I don't want to be apart of them. Either do it or don't.
✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱
UPDATE: 2017-02-19 07:53:00
Granny Rowan says:
A pirate complaining of someone doing pvp in space.. now that is something to hang on the wall.
As for the negotiations, I do not see them as credible, any more than several previous attempts I agreed to, and attended, only to yelled at and reviled. I have no wish to waste my time listening to BS.
✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱
UPDATE: 2017-02-19 07:56:00
Xane says:
The Kornan has said they do not wish to participate in any peace negotiations.
✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱
UPDATE: 2017-02-19 08:04:00
Granny Rowan says:
CORRECTION : 2017-02-19 08:03:17
Granny Rowan owner of the Kronan said she had no reason to enter into any meaningless negotiations.
✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱
UPDATE: 2017-02-19 08:07:00
Xane says:
If no more progress is made in these talks after 24 hours I will post the results of these negotiations.
✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱
UPDATE: 2017-02-19 21:08:00
John Black Knight says:
Yoshii was informed about the criteria to get the tos kos status removed from varyag , she has not shown any honest consideration and instead together with nve pirates made a huge effort in spreading false propaganda about us and history in space.
Xane besides you we have been contacted by numerous members of varyag who want to start 'peace' negotiations but what it comes down to is that you and those members as well as Yoshii just want either an easy way out or another statement which you can twist in your aim to confuse the public.
Varyag team and NVE have both not been credible in this and there is no reason for us to put any trust in members of socs and organizations who use multiple alt accounts to spread rumors and slander.
If Yoshii wants the kos tag removed she will need to stop working with NVE, stop lying to newcomers, stop spreading false rumors and respectfully enter in negotiations about a settlement of the charges held against her - we however from her resent behavior do not expect this to happen any time soon. Therefor see no reason to talk.
✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱
UPDATE: 2017-02-20 00:29:00
Xane says:
The owners of the Kronan and Normandie have decided not to participate in this negotiation for peace. The peace negotiations are over.
✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱ ✱ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✈ ✮ ✱