No more autoclicking?

[CAC]

after over 50+ pages, I honestly think that people are not going to agree on the whole cheating/not cheating thing.

At the end of the day, the fact that 1000's of people use AC'ers without being locked tells me all I need to know.

Now can we leave this topics so certain members can go and phone the police to tell them that some people are driving down their road doing +1 km/h above the speed limit

W got a new deadful vu to slag off here so lets all drop the monthly AC argument for now and we'll pick it up again in September sometime

 

[Tamn]

Kicking the horse till our shoes wear out.

 

[Etopia]

"Cheating" here is the time advantage you are taking. It seems that you are forgoting the time... When two people starts crafting, with unlimited budged, who will be the first who will have more skills, be better etc... And will he make it with honest playing without breaking the rules ? So isnt the first player somehow screwed ? 0o

I give you this reply in this thread to

I say the third player , because he will go auction and buy skill...after 1 week , 1 zillion of people will just waste their life cliking or AC or what ever to sell him skill.

But , the player that will make the most profit in game , is probably the player 4 ... the one that will see all those 3 idiot fighting for some skill , and will help them by trading skill and ore , so they can click more...he will probably open a shop , where he sell BP , ore , and skill...

In the end its all about how you check the size of the biggest dick... if you check on skill , on money , dedication... but its all about ego....
The point of game is to enjoy what you do....

 

[LeWolf86]

Yes, everyone has 16 pieces

But I can move 3 times when you are not at the board. I only gain a time advantage, I don't have to wait for you so I can move


Yes, but with the same PEDs, a player with an AC will gain time.

And time = win

Have you noticed that only the first runner in a race gets all the glory? Or that the first guy to patent an idea wins the benefits?

I suppose you don't think the Theory of Evolution is correct either?

...............

Ok so lets turn it around then.... if time is not a factor then the person with more PED will be more skilled right? Guess thats a disadvantage right? Should we get upset we cant catch up to the person with more PED? Cause its so unfair how he has so much money in the game.

Time is different for everyone... If you put everyone on step one yes AC will win when other people are away... but the fact is you could put 26 players at the start and each person will progress differently due to the time they can afford to put into the game.... and if PED is a concern then itll be even more different....

The fact is I agree you get a time advantage... but you do not get a monetary advantage... you dont get any extra benefit... it still cost me PED to use my AC... and if I cant afford it I cant use it... which is the case for a lot of people which is why we dont have a million ubers... because PED = Money not everyone has money.

Time does not = Win.... PED = Win

No matter how much time someone spends crafting whether AC or not they require a constant flow of money..... Its somewhat an arguement that nothing will ever be "fair" in this game if we use variables such as time and money because every player can afford only so much of each.... and if we say money isn't a factor then AC or not everyone would be uber...

 

[Etopia]

I dont care, legalise ACs or ban for using them ... But say it STRAIGHT. Just have BALLS.

For me, its treating us, the customers, like completely idiots.

Problem is so far , suport give diferent reply...
Sometime they just dont endorse , sometime its forbiden , sometime they say they ban , sometime they say they dont care... I dont know why they change reply so much...
Things are , they are fine with that blur...Its good excuse for them to ban or lock a player if they wish because the interpretation of eula... but in other hand , they love people use AC , and they will not do anything against AC as long as you dont abuse a bug...

But yes would be nice to have some clear reply...and then the action from MA that go with it...

 

[mrproper]

if time is not a factor then the person with more PED will be more skilled right? Guess thats a disadvantage right? Should we get upset we cant catch up to the person with more PED? Cause its so unfair how he has so much money in the game.

Do you think that more players that choose autoclickers and play with more PED in the same period of time, affect the internal balance of the game?

 

[LeWolf86]

Go back and read how many insults were leveled against people (generally) who are "crazy, big enough losers," etc. to do their clicks manually, and then keep wondering why nobody hasn't come out to proudly admit that they "like big clicks and they cannot lie."

P.S. I maxed filters and generic leather texture by hand.

I maxed my first BSM BP by hand.... and Im working on my Mann MPH DLx by hand and bought a Breer P1A which I will do by hand along with a BreerP3A I believe which I will also do by hand one day when I get there....

I dont even know what to argue anymore ... I think its all been summed up and Im getting burnt out surprisingly .

 

[mrproper]

they love people use AC , and they will not do anything against AC as long as you dont abuse a bug...

So why do they love ACs, if they don't make any decay money?

How do crafters produce decay?

 

[LeWolf86]

zzZZZzZZ.....

Hello,

"Cheating" here is the time advantage you are taking. It seems that you are forgoting the time... When two people with the same conditions and unlimited budgetstarts crafting, who will be the first who will have more skills, be better etc... And will he make it with honest playing without breaking the rules ? So isnt the first player somehow screwed ? 0o

..........

Hes not screwed do you understand that?

How is he screwed? Because hes further behind because he hasn't been on EU as much? See this sceneario takes into the "AC Belief" that everyone seems to think people run AC's 24/7 (maybe some do I know I dont)...

If you have infinite money then you can buy your skills... I understand what your trying to say that.... Problem is its not a likely scenario....

You can easily turn this thing around the other way... if someone walks into the game with 100,000 ped buys everything causing huge price jumps because hes so awesomely rich and the guy who starts out with 1000 ped both have infinite time to craft.... whose gonna lose?

The problem is...

-For an AC to work and give a time advantage it requires money to operate.
-If money is not a factor then AC gives advantage... this is not the case as explained many times...
-AC is used for usually 1 bigger one to avoid 8 smaller ones... (except for these rich people who craft constantly who really aren't playing the game much but just skilling bots possibly, but then they can do whatever they want anyways right?)

-Time and Money advantages are had per participation in this game... if you want you can skip everything and invest loads to do whatever you want... thats a personal choice YOU MUST MAKE.... Time is the same thing... if you put in your time thats your choice...

Each and every person comes into EU with possible disadvantages and advantages over other people.... Should we start limiting play time to 4 hrs max per day to ensure that each person can stay together and skill together? No... The fact is to use an AC you still pay your dues.
-

 

[Etopia]

So why do they love ACs, if they don't make any decay money?

How do crafters produce decay?

for craft you use refined material...
When it is to feed TT , no one refine his stuff...
And if there is no crafter , why miner would go produce decay ?

Yeah , crafter dont directly make the decay , but they are part of economie , and so increase decay....

 

[LeWolf86]

Do you think that more players that choose autoclickers and play with more PED in the same period of time, affect the internal balance of the game?

Yes... BUT... do you think when squall rapes some domes on CND that has an affect on the internal balance on CND? The answer is yes....

Pretty much any participant if big enough or if the volume of participants is great enough will have an impact... then depending on what the loot cycle is there will be an impact.

If you took out ACers... you'd still have soem big crafters that would do it manually Im sure and when they buy their stuff that would have an impact...

So its a flawed arguement IMO.

 

[LeWolf86]

for craft you use refined material...
When it is to feed TT , no one refine his stuff...
And if there is no crafter , why miner would go produce decay ?

Yeah , crafter dont directly make the decay , but they are part of economie , and so increase decay....

Well once again thats another area Marco hasn't given a lot of info about...

Decay could be anything as some believe.... if you have people clicking 8 hrs over night while they sleep they are decaying their materials which in turn becomes new goods usually less TT then what was put in... therefore you could consider that decay...

Also ammo spent could be decayed... but thats a topic for another thread .

MA loves ACers... why? Because its people spending PED and in the world of EU there are many losers and few winners with MA being the primary one... increase the losers and you make MA a bigger winner.

 

[aia]

for craft you use refined material...
When it is to feed TT , no one refine his stuff...
And if there is no crafter , why miner would go produce decay ?

Sometimes [pre-vu 10] when I hunted, some mobs dropped 100s of "animal hides", and I could have ~400 hides in carried inventory (getting me over 200 kg in total), so I had to refine them to be able to move. Then it happened I eventually TTd the leather because I needed peds desperately (and I don't know someone who regularily buys it). (I do have thousands of basic leather extractors+basic leather texture BP, but I'm too lazy to craft *that*).

 

[DevronIa]

First i must admit that i agree completly with lewolf

Then i have also crafted by hands while watching stuff/reading and such .

But what i wanted to say here is that most of u is speaking about skills then ped and finally time . After 53 page of post most of u agreed to say that u don't win ped while using AC but mostly time .
And u always say something about some WIN .

Hum i might be dumb but winning WHAT ?

There is no inividual ranking , except soc one maybe
And it's not by crafting only that u'll be able to get there .
And that's the beauty of EU there is no "winner" ( maybe it' the ppl which are able to play the game freely [without depositing or not ] and do whatever they want )

So what do u win buy using AC ? time , yeah certainly and ? what's the difference for your gameplay if someone can have more fun and do way more things for his own pleasure without ruining your game play ( cause in this game skilling fast usually mean loosing way faster )
So u are basically pissed of because someone is skilling faster than u are ?
So that also means u should be pissed of of someone skilling faster than u because of ped too ?
Cause let's face it and stop closing your eyes , this game is NOT fair .
Ppl either with luck/unlimited or at least bunch of irl money/which started the game early / with friends knowing tips / with more intelligence than other and i can go on like this for decade .
All of those factor means ppl will be skilling faster / already did .
And it's way more unfaire that AC ( cause it's only make u win time , without ped u can't use it at all , if someone know of to get luck except by getting an unfaithful gl/bf i take it , or wining shitload of money without luck or something out of the ordinary )

So maybe u should consider this game under another though and try to see what u really enjoy in this game and not always looking at your neighbour with jealous/suspicious eyes wondering how he did this and got that

Afterall that's how i see crafting . Being able to do whatever i want to do ( no need to tell that since i don't have unlimited funds and some bad luck i'm not quite there but i still have hopes ) to support my other plays in this game ( hunting/mining ... )

PS : damn i wrote a lot sory but i need to train wrinting in english which isn't my native language as u can see with all those mistake
And yeah i'm envious and jealous too some time

 

[soybeanmeal]

how can you turn ped into money ?? They will ban your account when you withdraw it, if you use autoclicker, ,but they won't ban you if you just earn ped and spend them.

 

[mrproper]

So what do u win buy using AC ? time , yeah certainly and ? what's the difference for your gameplay if someone can have more fun and do way more things for his own pleasure without ruining your game play ( cause in this game skilling fast usually mean loosing way faster )
So u are basically pissed of because someone is skilling faster than u are ?
So that also means u should be pissed of of someone skilling faster than u because of ped too ?
Cause let's face it and stop closing your eyes , this game is NOT fair .
Ppl either with luck/unlimited or at least bunch of irl money/which started the game early / with friends knowing tips / with more intelligence than other and i can go on like this for decade .

So your time has no value to you?
Why do you use an AC? Just use your worthless time!
Why are you ruining my gameplay by using ACs?

Be my guest, be more determined and skill faster, but not using automated systems that are not allowed by the game creators.

The game is not fair? Yes, it isn't because cheaters like you make it so...

This is a money-based game. Everything you can do better than someone else, while it is impossible for them, makes you an unethical player.

And again, we are stupid and lacking intelligence because we don't use smart programs that are against the rules and cheat our way out of the other players' time.

I sure am glad I'm not like you...

 

[LeWolf86]

So your time has no value to you?
Why do you use an AC? Just use your worthless time!
Why are you ruining my gameplay by using ACs?

Proper your not reading again....
I use an AC because although Id be fine mining or hunting with my time... clicking is not quite worth my time... there are flash games with more interaction then EU crafting. At least clicking large amount of components for the basis of skilling... not clicking items I do now mostly.

How is your game play ruined by others AC? Are you telling me you cant even go into EU because its 100% ruined? Whether ACs run or not... there is no direct effect on you. Christ... your not even a big crafter... therefore its not like your falling behind the competition... your EU account on ET has not one crafting global...

Be my guest, be more determined and skill faster, but not using automated systems that are not allowed by the game creators.

MA still has not stated that ACs are banned/illegal... they have said not condoned... which is not a solid statement on the matter, and has room for interpretation.

This is a money-based game. Everything you can do better than someone else, while it is impossible for them, makes you an unethical player.

2nd sentence hard to understand... and therefore I dont understand the point of your statement here....

And again, we are stupid and lacking intelligence because we don't use smart programs that are against the rules and cheat our way out of the other players' time.

I sure am glad I'm not like you...

...... smart program? Are you fucking serious? A program that clicks for you is not smart... its very basic in terms of programs which is the whole issue why people use AC because if a simple program that clicks can perform 1/3 main professions in this game then that definately shows a problem with how "dynamic" crafting is.

W dont cheat... END OF STORY.... all you do is scream cheat... I look at your entropia tracker I dont even know if you play this game or just troll the forums.... you either play very very very little to a point where an ACer has no impact on you... or you dont hunt/mine/craft at all which means an ACer has no impact on you... Or you have a 2nd avatar possibly which would be a total violation of the EULA.... So what is it? ET tracks nothing on you... except 1 global if I recall.... Why do you care so much?

 

[Mandy]

The time to click 1000x with or without AC is the same, the cost is the same.
If the AC clicks for longer than a player physically can, the AC will need to "spend" more than the player.

Nah I actually didn't know that's what you meant, I just read the text, not between the lines.

Evidently reading isn't your strong point as you conveniently chose to ignore the part immediately after the paragraph you are referring to.

AC is not cheating, it does not allow an unfair advantage.
If "breaking the rules" is the reason for you labeling AC as cheating, please learn the meaning of words before compiling a sentence.
More importantly, it allows no in-game advantage.

FYI;
Cheating is an act of lying, deception, fraud, trickery, imposture, or imposition. Cheating characteristically is employed to create an unfair advantage, usually in one's own interest, and often at the expense of others, [1] Cheating implies the breaking of rules. The term "cheating" is less applicable to the breaking of laws, as illegal activities are referred to by specific legal terminology such as fraud or corruption. Cheating is a primordial economic act: getting more for less...

-wikipedia

That's a good one. Give us the I know what I'm talking about, you don't speech, and then slip up on your own bs with the next paragraph.

Getting more for less.... That would be clicking longer than you could physically, in person manage, and in so doing gain more than you could for the actual time spent playing.

And I'm sure you will choose to not see this as well, but switching on an AC and then going off to do things in the life you claim to have is not playing, because you, as in the person, are not interacting with the game.

Problem is so far , suport give diferent reply...
Sometime they just dont endorse , sometime its forbiden , sometime they say they ban , sometime they say they dont care... I dont know why they change reply so much...

As the saying round here goes, screenshot or it didn't happen!

Seriously though, either back it up or quit with the rumour and hearsay.

 

[LeWolf86]

Congrats mandy for being someone that actually crafts that is against ACing.... I actually respect your opinion more then others....

Its humanly possible for me to click 8 hours a day... which is the max Ive ever put my AC to. I wouldn't do it though because its brain numbing.

The part you bolded at the bottom about cheating is a bit diff... I think your bolding and reading what you want.

By using an AC you dont actually get more for less... unless we consider time the main "cheating" advantage which time has no value in-game IMO... time is irrelavant in the game..... Time only matters for each player in his real life.

If I were to click 8 hrs with my AC Ill get same results if I were to click 8 hours 2 hours a day for 4 days give or take of course.


I think the main arguement that has formed after many flawed ones is that AC = Time Cheating....

Can you cheat time? I dont know how because when you cheat time in EU you can still lose.... you dont win anything.... you pay your dues do you not? Its like at a freezer at home... I rather buy 7lbs of meat when im at the grocery store instead of 1lb each day. I paid the same amount.... but I saved time.... Is that cheating? Is it smart? The arguement is that because IRL Time = Money and by cheating time you get an advantage... but unfourunately in the realms of EU you cant really cheat time.... because time does not exist in EU at least IMO...

Im still trying to get an example in my head to better explain it or if someone can give a god one...

Because atm people keep using doping athletes as the example and its flawed because a doped athlete has an advantage IN THE RACE against the non doped athlete....

 

[aia]

There is no inividual ranking , except soc one maybe

Well, because of soc ranks, my soc was locked out of landgrab...

And it's not by crafting only that u'll be able to get there .
And that's the beauty of EU there is no "winner" ( maybe it' the ppl which are able to play the game freely [without depositing or not ] and do whatever they want )

At least in the hunting professions you clearly see that there is a penalty to have skills in "the average"; low-end and high-end FAPs are usually easier to get than mid-level ones (SK-50, UR-125), and as for weapons the same goes for (extreme case) rocket launchers that's on mid level (detpil 500-1000) while the very low (-40, -50) and the high ends (python) are cheaper. For ordinary weapons it's easier for someone who have higher skills to get cheap weapons.
What's the race? The race is that the "average level" goes upp all the time, meaning that the gear that best fits an average player will be hardest to get and more expensive.

The veterans, having either uberfap or uberarmor and mm/imk2, are out of this race of course since they have their repairable equipment. Sure the old weapons require more skills to be economic, but the owners of this euipment usually either have those skills already, or have the time to skill upp in peace (not having to check % on auction once a week).

On the positive side, the SGA will arrive and I hope for a reasonable chance to loot something useful (when I can log in...), given ofc it doesn't loot from [biggest mob ingame ie eomon/spider/mulak'f] stalker.

 

[mrproper]

Proper your not reading again....
I use an AC because although Id be fine mining or hunting with my time... clicking is not quite worth my time... there are flash games with more interaction then EU crafting. At least clicking large amount of components for the basis of skilling... not clicking items I do now mostly.

Good for you. If you don't like crafting, don't.

MA still has not stated that ACs are banned/illegal... they have said not condoned... which is not a solid statement on the matter, and has room for interpretation.

Give me an example of something legal but not condoned.

Are you fucking serious? A program that clicks for you is not smart... its very basic in terms of programs which is the whole issue why people use AC because if a simple program that clicks

So you admit you have programming expertise and you are able to determine the complexity of a program?

W dont cheat... END OF STORY.... all you do is scream cheat... I look at your entropia tracker I dont even know if you play this game or just troll the forums.... you either play very very very little to a point where an ACer has no impact on you... or you dont hunt/mine/craft at all which means an ACer has no impact on you... Or you have a 2nd avatar possibly which would be a total violation of the EULA.... So what is it? ET tracks nothing on you... except 1 global if I recall.... Why do you care so much?

Maybe you don't cheat. Or you think you don't. Whatever, you can do whatever you want.

AC-ers have an impact on me. You should not tell me to shut up, just because you play more and somehow that gives you the right to be smug. I played more hours than you.

Ok, so now I am being attacked again for possibly having another avatar, which somehow means I am breaking the EULA? Nice red herring.

So if ET says I have one global, then I have one global? Does that mean I don't matter? Or my opinion is void?

Check my older globals like these: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/post_thanks.php?do=findthanks&u=4010

I have many more, I had some even when ET was beta and didn't track everything so well. Again, irrelevant.

Cya around, I still say AC-ing is "not ok".

Congrats mandy for being someone that actually crafts that is against ACing.... I actually respect your opinion more then others....

So you admit to being a hypocrite, along with my accusations of being immoral?

 

[exsolvo]

This will be my last post in this thread which is clearly gone out of hand.


All i can say to people is mind your own dang business, if YOU dont want to use an autoclicker, DONT, if you DO want to use one, DO.

I don't care one way or another, if i want to become a crafter and the crafting process is as boring as it is now, hell no im not going to click, but im not installing a "third party software" either, i would be using my own

My take is that AC is NOT cheating, its more like an ergonomic chair or keyboard, it lessens the burden of something, cost is the same, loot is the same, time spent (for me) would be the same.

The only part of autoclicking i DO mind, is people leaving it online when theyre not at the computer, maybe not even in the appartment/house, that would be morally wrong since in that situation they shouldnt be playing at all.

But being in the appartment, say within range of a bluetooth mouse or whatnot, and using AC and watch progress now and again? heck thats just ergonomic

As i said, this IS my last post as i wont be watching this thread anymore, the discussion is clearly unwinnable as some (as i regard them) nitwits, dont seem to understand a difference between an AC used morally and an AC used imorally and even more, a CHEAT.

// Exo, over and out.

 

[mrproper]

The only part of autoclicking i DO mind, is people leaving it online when theyre not at the computer, maybe not even in the appartment/house, that would be morally wrong since in that situation they shouldnt be playing at all.

That's exactly the part I have a problem with. See you around...

 

[Mandy]

Congrats mandy for being someone that actually crafts that is against ACing....

I'm only against ACing as it currently stands. This is because it's not a system provided for us by MA/FPC, and even though the EULA seemed clear enough enough in my mind I still chose to ask directly and got a response that backed up my initial thoughts.

However, if and when MA/FPC implement some sort of AC type device, I will be using it loads, and within the rules specified for it's use.

I'm all for ease of use, enabling access for those that have disabilities, and the like, but it has to be the same for everyone.

As is stands it isn't, and until MA/FPC make a statement that is the reverse of the reply I received, my view on ACers is simple.

You are cheating and I hope you get your account locked, your assets tt'd and a permanent ban.

 

[PW3CKA]

..........

Hes not screwed do you understand that?

How is he screwed? Because hes further behind because he hasn't been on EU as much? See this sceneario takes into the "AC Belief" that everyone seems to think people run AC's 24/7 (maybe some do I know I dont)...

If you have infinite money then you can buy your skills... I understand what your trying to say that.... Problem is its not a likely scenario....

You can easily turn this thing around the other way... if someone walks into the game with 100,000 ped buys everything causing huge price jumps because hes so awesomely rich and the guy who starts out with 1000 ped both have infinite time to craft.... whose gonna lose?

The problem is...

-For an AC to work and give a time advantage it requires money to operate.
-If money is not a factor then AC gives advantage... this is not the case as explained many times...
-AC is used for usually 1 bigger one to avoid 8 smaller ones... (except for these rich people who craft constantly who really aren't playing the game much but just skilling bots possibly, but then they can do whatever they want anyways right?)

-Time and Money advantages are had per participation in this game... if you want you can skip everything and invest loads to do whatever you want... thats a personal choice YOU MUST MAKE.... Time is the same thing... if you put in your time thats your choice...

Each and every person comes into EU with possible disadvantages and advantages over other people.... Should we start limiting play time to 4 hrs max per day to ensure that each person can stay together and skill together? No... The fact is to use an AC you still pay your dues.
-

Its not possible what im reading, did you ever read my comment ?
Again little bit changed for fcktrd who dont want to accept that he is pretty wrong.....


zzZZZzZZ.....

Hello,

"Cheating" here is the time advantage you are taking. It seems that you are forgoting the time... When two people with the same conditions and unlimited budget without the intentions to buy skills starts crafting, who will be the first who will have more skills, be better etc... And will he make it with honest playing without breaking the rules ? So isnt the first player somehow screwed ? 0o

 

[Etopia]

"Cheating" here is the time advantage you are taking. It seems that you are forgoting the time... When two people with the same conditions and unlimited budget without the intentions to buy skills starts crafting, who will be the first who will have more skills, be better etc... And will he make it with honest playing without breaking the rules ? So isnt the first player somehow screwed ? 0o

So for you its all about having the most of skill?

 

[CAC]

All the moralistic people in this thread who are condeming AC'er because they break the rules... put your self in this position!!

You find out one day whilst hunting, that if you kill a feffoid with a P5a + 103 amp, it globals every time..... Obviously a Bug/Exploit

Please tell me what mob you'll be hunting and what weapon you'll be hunting it with?

Bet you wouldn't be all moralistic and obey the rules then would you ?

 

[SHY]

Only 1 thing to say:

USE AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!

 

[mrproper]

All the moralistic people in this thread who are condeming AC'er because they break the rules... put your self in this position!!

You find out one day whilst hunting, that if you kill a feffoid with a P5a + 103 amp, it globals every time..... Obviously a Bug/Exploit

Please tell me what mob you'll be hunting and what weapon you'll be hunting it with?

Bet you wouldn't be all moralistic and obey the rules then would you ?

Usually hunters report these things to MA. I believe I would too. And I won't use the exploit more than what it takes to confirm it's existence, at which point I agree that MA can take whatever measures they want to revert it's effects on my avatar.

But of course, I am sure that most autoclickers will just exploit it, since most exploiters use anything they can get their grubby hands on, to suck the enjoyment out of their EU experience, even detrimental to other participants.

 

[mrproper]

So for you its all about having the most of skill?

Etopia, can I craft something that you craft, using the same quantity of PED to get the skills you have? Ignore the time, just thinking about the skills, can I get to your level with the same quantity of PED you used?