Numbers Don't Lie ! (Real Price Of Sweat)

[Spawn]

But if you want to like it - treat it like i did.
As a sport !
Get a stop watch and write down amounts sweated per 1 hour, try to be better and better.
Progress gives me happiness even if it is a progress in some silly virtual wor

1 you will not get progress..
if you have sweat level 3000 or sweat gathering level 300..

2 you will always sweat around 200-400 bottles per hour
which in the most profitable outcome is 2 peds per hour.. which is in dollars
20 cents per hour.

3 if you "sport" 8 hours a day 7 days a week. That is 16*7= 112 peds per week that's eh like .. wow

4 112 peds is 11,2 dollars.. for a weeks work of 8 hours labour.
good sport!

5 per month its around 448 peds, which is 44,8 dollars. yeah! that's like awesome peddage you have got going there.

6 your pc produces around 150- 200 watts per hour.
you were sporting like 8 hours, 7 days a week. that's 56 hoursx 200 watt= 11200 watt per week of "sport"

7 that is around 44800 watts per month.

in holland the cheapest electricity you can get is this:

€ 0,17613 per kw = 7.48 euro's per month = 11.54 usd

8 so technically sweating 8 hours a day, 7 days a week for a full month delivers:
44,8 dollars- 11,54 = 33.26 usd

9 minimum wages in us of fkn a.
let's take bills state: arkansas: $6.25 per hour.
so... working 6 hours a month in the us delivers more peds then sweating.

10 happiness... you really think sweating 8 hours a day 24/7 delivers more happiness then working 6 hours a month to pay for a deposit??

11 let's say you live in holland... minimum wage in holland is 1335 euro's (bruto) per month. Thats 934 euro's after taxes (yeah tax in holland is enormous)
still it's 46.7 euro's a day, or 5.83 euro's an hour (8.91 usd)
so in holland you only have to work 4 hours a month to get the same result as sweating 8 hours a day, 7 days a week for a full month

 

[Kaiser]

[Aandar's edit (time for an update)]

Price of Sweat = Price of Mind Essence - Price of Force Nexus - Refiner Decay

Date:26.04.2008
Ingame Data Day Average MV
1000 ME 205.64% = 20.56 PED
1000 FN 137.91% = 13.79 PED
1000 RD = 0.31 PED (TT Refiner)

Price of 1000 Sweat = 6.46 PED
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aandar's Street Selling Data
1000 ME 205% = 20.50 PED (205% is possible but hard and 200% is easy)
1000 FN 135% = 13.50 PED
1000 RD = 0.23 PED (MatterTransformer MT-104)

Price of 1000 Sweat = 6.77 PED
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

This aboslutely absurd. Your math is ridiculously flawed. I guess whoever did the work to get them all together, risked their PED in purchasing it all, and spent the time to sell it gets paid NOTHING!!

Great idea. why is the sweaters time worth money but the merchant's is not?





This thread gets posted it seems like every 5 minutes.

STOP BITCHING ABOUT HOW MUCH FREE MONEY YOU GET!!!!

Plain and simple.

The real answer to the question "How much is sweat worth", is "Whatever people are willing to pay for it". Plain and simple.

Sorry to sound rude but I and MANY MANY other people are sick and tired of reading these damned threads where people bitch about how much free money they get and put out half cocked uninformed ignorant equations that claim the people who work to turn the sweat and nexus into ME should not get paid for their time.

Mow a damned lawn, you get exercise and can deposit the money plus you provide a valued service.

BTW the mild ranting is not directed at the thread starter but the people who complain about what sweat is worth.

 

[Jowy2000]

conclusion:
sweating = most hated profession

 

[Aandar]

1 you will not get progress..
if you have sweat level 3000 or sweat gathering level 300..

2 you will always sweat around 200-400 bottles per hour
which in the most profitable outcome is 2 peds per hour.. which is in dollars
20 cents per hour.

3 if you "sport" 8 hours a day 7 days a week. That is 16*7= 112 peds per week that's eh like .. wow

4 112 peds is 11,2 dollars.. for a weeks work of 8 hours labour.
good sport!

5 per month its around 448 peds, which is 44,8 dollars. yeah! that's like awesome peddage you have got going there.

6 your pc produces around 150- 200 watts per hour.
you were sporting like 8 hours, 7 days a week. that's 56 hoursx 200 watt= 11200 watt per week of "sport"

7 that is around 44800 watts per month.

in holland the cheapest electricity you can get is this:

€ 0,17613 per kw = 7.48 euro's per month = 11.54 usd

8 so technically sweating 8 hours a day, 7 days a week for a full month delivers:
44,8 dollars- 11,54 = 33.26 usd

9 minimum wages in us of fkn a.
let's take bills state: arkansas: $6.25 per hour.
so... working 6 hours a month in the us delivers more peds then sweating.

10 happiness... you really think sweating 8 hours a day 24/7 delivers more happiness then working 6 hours a month to pay for a deposit??

11 let's say you live in holland... minimum wage in holland is 1335 euro's (bruto) per month. Thats 934 euro's after taxes (yeah tax in holland is enormous)
still it's 46.7 euro's a day, or 5.83 euro's an hour (8.91 usd)
so in holland you only have to work 4 hours a month to get the same result as sweating 8 hours a day, 7 days a week for a full month

1. true

2. not true
Why ? Because sweating is highly dependant on time spent on actual sweating and you can increase this by:
a) not dying too often (or not dying at all)
b) no unnecessary running around
c) good general strategy (choice of place and mob and correct technique)

3. LOL i have life ! 3 hours is ok but 8 ???

4-11 true... but really for me it is fun and i wouldnt do it if it wasnt - it's that simple.

 

[Aandar]

And that's exactly it: 1 hour 30 minutes, same time frame, more profit.
Perhaps you won't get maximum top royal price for your sweat, but you don't have to go out and look for it all day, saving you loads and loads of time in the process.

If you are good, have few repeat buyers (be nice to people and you will quickly have few friends who will rather buy their tpchip ME from their friend than from some other sweater or reseller) and you know how/where/when then selling 1000 ME will take you few minutes (unless it's a bad day and your buyers are not online or don't need to use their tpchips (they are crafting not hunting for example)).
Really.

Where ?
1. Twin Peaks
2. Port atlantis
3. Nea's Place
4. Swamp Camp

When ?
On european evenings/night there is lower competition and more buyers.
At least thats what i feel.

Whatever you do behind the screen while playing EU does not really concern me

Hehehehe actually i prefer to surf my favorite forums while waiting for a buyer.
There is too much malware on xxx sites to surf them safely with peass browser (imho).

 

[Dobbo93]

Wtf?

all those numbers are pointless just say 0.55 pec for every 100 bottles or something like that.

 

[ATBLOODy]

Gather sweat to learn the basics > deposit > stay at your own level > enjoy.
Why even bother discussing the price of sweat when it really is 'for free'.

 

[Alice]

well, generally

it doesnt include auction fee

the base point of that being is, that most of the ME is being used by TP chippers and MF healers

the first group, uses a TP chip to be faster from point A to B
means, that doesnt show the patience to go to say port atlantis to buy ME at 200%
most of those ppl avoid PA, due to lag and unnecessary time waste

simply buy the ME at 200% BO at auction and the problem is solved

the latter group tends to need ME in bigger amounts, 1-10k ME, depending on their session
maybe more

especially the 10k batches are not that fast to get at PA or swamp camp (i mean, what kind of standard newbie sweater can afford to have that amount of sweat+nexus to refine)

so i think, you can't simply take the official auction market value of ME (which you said yourself is manipulated with the peeks, which means that the actual price should be lower) and the one of nexus
because those 200% (or whatever it is atm) have the auction fee included by the sellers

be it sweat/ME resellers or not, they want to profit after they bought it, so they will calculate with the auction most likely (except they are stupid), what leads to the 200% they put the stuff in at

the other problem

say a newbie wants to sell sweat, in the best case, 1000 sweat at least (newbies are impatient, so 1000 might be too high already)

first at 0.5, means 5 ped
then at 0.55, means 5.5 ped
then at 0.67, means 6,7 ped

the question is, how long do you have to wait?

i tend to assume you can get 400 sweat per hour (quite low guess i think), which is 2 ped 0.5

so the question is, would you rather sell at 0.5 and sweat right again for 1 hour for 2 ped gain in the end

or rather try to sell 1 hour or more at 0.55 for an additional 0.5 gain in the end

basically, that leads to the fact that you would need at least 4000 sweat to really try to sell at 0.55
and just gives you an hour then

not to mention 90% of the newbies doesnt have patience (sidenote, 90% of the newbies quit the first 2 days, as you know )

so, most want to get an opalo and ammo and start to earn cash
you know, why sweating longer or waiting longer, when you can buy the opalo and some ammo at 0.5 and start earning the big bucks then, so you never have to get back to sweating?

they quit when they realise that it won't work btw

 

[baron topper]

In my days of sweating I quickly discovered the auction, and that you may buy fors nexus and refine it with sweat to mind essence, and then sell it at the auction, I roughly calculated 1. Ped per 1000 ME in expenses to auction fee and refining, thus when I bought fors nexus I cud quickly see the end price, for my sweat. Atm it is possibly to buy fors nexus at around 131% and the price you may sell ME at the auction is around 205% leaving 6.4ped pr 1000 to pay for the sweat. A bit better then 5.3 on the streat, not to mention the time spent to sell the dam thing.

At the time a yea ago I often got a price this way for my sweat at 8.5 to 7.5 ped pr 1000.

 

[Bluewave]

Sweat or ME

Two question I have after reading this tread...

Ok selling sweat or ME the profit difference is not high or insignificant.

1. Do you get skills for creating ME from sweat and Force Nexus ?
2. Does ME sell faster than Sweat ? (is the demand / offer better for sellers)

I have been sweating for 3 weeks now and getting quit a lot of bottles but I find it borring to stand at PA TP spamming the trade channel with "Selling sweat 0.6" and finding out that 3 min later someone comes up and posts "Selling sweat 0.52" or whatever...

It seems that less people in the trade channel advertise for "Selling ME".

So if I take my sweat and transform it to ME will I be able to sell it easyer ?

Last thing: At what level of sweating skill (if any) will my sweating become more efficient ?

PS: if you are a regular sweat buyer I am willing to have a trade agreement with you.

 

[Wody]

You will never get any skill-increase from refining anything, this includes ME.
You will never become more efficient, you have a fixed 20% chance of getting any sweat, just like anybody else

 

[Alice]

1. Do you get skills for creating ME from sweat and Force Nexus ?
2. Does ME sell faster than Sweat ? (is the demand / offer better for sellers)

1. nope
basically the refiner decays
but see it that way, no chance to fail on that either (yet, maybe next VU)

2. depends
ME can be sold at auction
see, ME is used by 2 main groups of ppl
the first group is the TP chip user
those use the ME to move faster from point A to point B, which isn't a great sign for patience
hence, imo its unlikely that you find one of those who is coming to PA to buy ME instead of going to auction (faster and most ppl avoid PA lag/spam etc.)

the second group is the healing (and focusing) skilling group for sweaters
those are usually quite close to the naub camps of the sweat production, so they might as well buy sweat or ME right away
in what amounts, depends, also on the price

but i say it that way
if you would sell ME at auction for like 210%, you effectively get, after auction fee, like 205%
means, if you street trade you shouldn't push it and rather give at least a bit of that fee saving to your customer
else he could go to auction, which is faster #D

I have been sweating for 3 weeks now and getting quit a lot of bottles but I find it borring to stand at PA TP spamming the trade channel with "Selling sweat 0.6" and finding out that 3 min later someone comes up and posts "Selling sweat 0.52" or whatever...

thats pretty much the reason why a sweater union wont work
there are way too many ppl who "control" the supply (not that everyone else couldnt make an own supply for himself)
especially ppl who got enough sweat to get a gun and some ammo to start hunting and finally get rich!

It seems that less people in the trade channel advertise for "Selling ME".

So if I take my sweat and transform it to ME will I be able to sell it easyer ?

the base question here isn't necessarily who buys ME, but rather, who buys the sweat and what do they do with it

most sweat i saw tends to be bought by sweat resellers or by ppl who transform it to ME to sell it at auction
somewhere all the pages at auction gotta come from

so, seems that can be more profitable if done right, especially if you got a quite cheap nexus supply

Last thing: At what level of sweating skill (if any) will my sweating become more efficient ?

the SG skill itself doesnt seem to improve sweating (nor does concentration)
the chance to get sweat in a pull is pretty exactly 20%
average pull in the long run is 12 sweat

evade and HP help most to get more sweat, since you stay longer alive
oh, and focus bubbles, so you aren't interrupted while concentrating and hit

 

[Aandar]

Do you get skills for creating ME from sweat and
Force Nexus ?

Nope

2. Does ME sell faster than Sweat ? (is the demand / offer better for sellers)

Yep (in my experience)

I have been sweating for 3 weeks now and getting quit a lot of bottles but I find it borring to stand at PA TP spamming the trade channel with "Selling sweat 0.6" and finding out that 3 min later someone comes up and posts "Selling sweat 0.52" or whatever...

Annoying

It seems that less people in the trade channel advertise for "Selling ME".

So if I take my sweat and transform it to ME will I be able to sell it easyer ?

Yep (ime)

Last thing: At what level of sweating skill (if any) will my sweating become more efficient ?

At infinite level Sweating cos is always 20%

 

[SparkyJordan]

Gather sweat to learn the basics > deposit > stay at your own level > enjoy.
Why even bother discussing the price of sweat when it really is 'for free'.

The whole reason I'm even reading this thread is to learn what is a fair price for sweat. Lots of people willing to buy the stuff for really cheap, and if I didn't find out what the average was, I'd be ripped off constantly. I'm not looking to make a living on it, I just want to be treated fairly and make it harder for the predatory resellers to take advantage of a hapless noob.