Opinion Poll Please all read This....

[Kahr]

Not to offend anyone. But this poll should not even been posted, problems like this is a matter for the leadership and judges to discus, and no one els. Anything els is in my eyes a sign of a weak and conflict averse organization.
Take a decision and then take the heat from those who disagree, coz there will be some no matter what.

 

[Skam]

perhaps you could come back later and 'splain better?

you didnt seem to have problems in your recent posts.

Because I didnt write them on a iPod. Here it goes again, I cleaned it up:

lol ytou know that might be our only chance for either of us to best .....

Lol, you know that might be out only chance for either of us to beat any of the top teams right? (to team up greece and norway) Tbh if this is going to be too much hassle, then Im personally not sure its worth it.

For me WoF Is supposed to be about coming together and having fun in friendly competition. If that is gone then there is not much left in WoF for me. And I just feel this whole situation is too stressful.

I know Norway have no chance to win WoF and probably to not progress further then stage 4 either. Being in WoF have been about the fun element. (I dont think Greece has a chance either, but thats just me.)

At the same time, if my teammates want to take this further then Ill support that and I wont let them down, Ill stick to it.
-------------------

That being said, No we didnt count our scores beforehand. Or at least it wasnt done as far as I know.

I would also like to point out to those who seems to have gotten it wrong: Im not the captain of Norway, Im not even co-captain.
Im a main team member who had to take the lead yesterday.

 

[Basilias]

the following message is from our Greek captain:Mihalis Laertis
(I wrote this instead of him because of his not good english).

We accept only England and Greece as the 2 teams which pass in to next round from the group.

As we decide the whole Team Greece if the Norway will pass from the judge in to the next round this will be a scandal and we will step down from this tournament.

Greece is second and has passed in the fourth round.

We cant really see the point of view for this poll...

We dont want to listen jokes such Norway to replay again the third round.

Laertis and all the whole Greek Team doesnt accept Norway/Greece elimination in Stage 4,it is totally unfair and illegal with the tournament rules as Greece passed fairly in to the next round.

Greece passed in to the next round without any outside help from anybody,Greece played all the tournanment so far totally fairly.
We r in the next round as the second team in the group and we dont really care if a judge did such a big mistake,it is not our fault.
Team Norway had to know the exact number of points which they needed to pass in to the next round,it is every simple to add 3 digits numbers and they had to be responsible to take care of this,Hurricane had no business with that thing at all(even if he tried to inform them with the wrong information).

We r sorry about Norway,They r a good team but simply they lost from us.
We dont have any problem with Norway or the judges but the only thing we want to participate in this tournament is fair rules for all!

Regards,Laertis:Captain of the Team Greece

-------------------------------------------------------------
For all the people here r the results of the group:

wof stage 3 round 1
GREECE :200 vs Norway:65
England:238 vs Czech Republic:75

wof stage 3 round 2
England:328 vs GREECE:132
Norway 243 vs Czech Republic:111

wof stage 3 round 3
GREECE:182 vs Czech Republic:92
Norway:160 vs England:301

Final standings of the group:
England 867
Greece 514
Norway 468
Czech Republic 283
-----------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Oleg]

It's a tricky situation for sure.

My view would be that the scores should stand, Greece should go through and Norway go out.

More than anything else, my reasoning is that Greece have done nothing wrong, and weren't involved in the mix-up, so it would be unfair to deny them the qualification place.

Norway, on the other hand, made a mistake, for whatever reason. WoF is as much about organisation, tactics, planning etc as anything else, and I suppose you could say that Norway let themselves down in that respect, firstly by not checking the mis-information that they'd been given, and secondly by taking their foot off the pedal.

Even if they had fought on for the sweep and a higher score, there's no guarantee that they would have achieved what was needed.

I think I can say that had England been in Norway's situation, we wouldn't have blindly accepted what Hurri told us about the required score, and even if we had passed the threshold we would have carried on to try and get as high a score as possible.

We were in the same group as Norway and Greece, and I have to say they were both good teams. I'm not surprised that the final scores were close. But on this occasion I feel Greece must go through, and Norway must console themselves with a near miss and a good performance in the tournament.

 

[Silver Viking]

I agree that this is a very terrible situation.

You have to know that Greece's main team consists from mid and below players. Concerning the support is good not to refer there...

I believe that in a football match if the referee gives a penalty to a team just by mistake this cannot be taken back. The match is over and the score is final.
Repeatition of a match would make people dislike and refuse to participate to any WoF. And i am not talking about Greece and Norway. Lets say that this error was made during USE vs England. What would have happened then?

When the problem affects small teams people just don't care. Please be more careful next time. I think the score is final. Move on with the WoF as this misfortune accident didn't happen.

GPA

And what happened here? The referee say that if Norway gets xxx points or more, they are in stage 4 ...... and Norway got the XXX points, and some more ......

What I think should happen is that Greece goes to stage 4 no discusion, no rematch, no elimination match, nothing of that kind, Greece is in stage 4 just like England

IF Hurricane decide to let Norway on to stage 4 also, there will simply be one more team in that group for stage 4.

IMO, the only question for Hurricane to decide is if Norway gets a " wildcard" to stage 4 or not, and what he decide is final wether we, you, they and all the rest, likes the decission or not, thats how its gonna be, its Hurricanes event, and he alone have to make that decission, and no matter what it will be, I will acept it and move on, hopefully, so will everyone else.

Just my 2


S V

 

[Lee]

I think I can say that had England been in Norway's situation, we wouldn't have blindly accepted what Hurri told us about the required score, and even if we had passed the threshold we would have carried on to try and get as high a score as possible.

I think I pretty much agree with all Oleg said. It was a big mistake that Hurri made, but at the end of the day, it was intended to simply give helpful info to the teams, and I do think most other 'serious' teams (as opposed to just for fun teams) would have had some idea of their own numbers as well, enough to correct him on it and know what they really needed. Most would also have gone ahead after they felt they had 'passed' and still gone for the highest score possible, including at least trying for the sweep, as getting high scores is what it's all about. So the changed hunting style and strategy for that particular team at that particular time was a choice they made, it turned out to be a bad one based on incorrect info, though again, no way now to ever know if they would have done better in the end anyway.

If letting that team go on to round 4 would in any way affect the team that actually won that match then it would be grounds for some serious bitching, and I see Team Greece has now made it's feelings known.

My vote goes to let the scores stand, and plan ahead for next year on some hard and fast rules to cover every possible scenario like this, including judging mistakes etc. I also agree with those who feel this poll should not have been needed, the situation made so public to be argued over. I know it was well intended of course, but as Kygon pointed out, it is impossible to please everyone, and I think Hurri needs to stop bending over so far tbh, as the organizer it is his call really, and in some ways this just stirred up stuff between the two teams that was completely unnecessary.

Sorry Team Norway for your loss, and sorry Team Greece for having your win tarnished a little by this. Keep on keeping on.

 

[GoNi]

What a farce!

For me it looks like that: Greece is in <-> Norway is out!

Every team should always know and recheck how many points they will need to reach next round. If some judge or promoter tells them a specific number, they will need to reach next round and this number of points is different compared to the math the team made themselfs, its time enough to clarify that befor the events starts, not after it ends and the team is out due to lack of points.

Another thing. If I have two different numbers of points I need to reach next level (one of own math, and one told by someone else), I would always go for the higher number, as it could always be that the lower number is the wrong one and the higher number the correct.

So the fault is not to see at hurrikanes mistake of telling a wrong number, the fault is the teams fault not to recheck their own standings and compare it to the other teams points in competition.

For me it still looks like: norway out - greece in !!!

 

[MysterLV]

Judge said something to team: You need get XXX points. Is this any kind official announcement in tournament? if yes and is to all teams then ok, if NO it was unofficial private judge message to team and team accepted it and made decision - slow down scoring.

I think it`s all clear there!

Scores also are announced .... so .... bad judge move (message and team reaction on it) what i can say.

 

[MysterLV]

What a farce!

For me it looks like that: Greece is in <-> Norway is out!

Every team should always know and recheck how many points they will need to reach next round. If some judge or promoter tells them a specific number, they will need to reach next round and this number of points is different compared to the math the team made themselfs, its time enough to clarify that befor the events starts, not after it ends and the team is out due to lack of points.

Another thing. If I have two different numbers of points I need to reach next level (one of own math, and one told by someone else), I would always go for the higher number, as it could always be that the lower number is the wrong one and the higher number the correct.

So the fault is not to see at hurrikanes mistake of telling a wrong number, the fault is the teams fault not to recheck their own standings and compare it to the other teams points in competition.

For me it still looks like: norway out - greece in !!!

Agree to this.

Norway ... sry .. sh*t happens.

 

[Chopper]

Unlike many I think it was a good idea for Hurri to start this thread. Yes, he is The Man as far as the WoF goes, but a good leader listens to the people under him and around him, and all he is doing is gauging opinion ans seeking solutions that perhaps he hadn't considered. I have far more respect for him for taking that approach than if he'd simply prounced his verdict from on high.

I sm gutted about this for Norway. I was their Judge for this match and so was just as responsible for passing on the incorrect information. Like them I hadn't checked the numbers before pasing them on, I saw no reason to.

As Spike mention, Hurri provided this service for many teams. I can only speak for Wales (for whom I compete) but Hurri's figures ("You need to beat Canada by 103 points") only confirmed what we already knew. I so wish someone in the Norway squad had said to me "185? You sure about that..?"

As Norway's judge I got to watch their score rate over the three hours. While they were still in high gear they got to around 92 points at the halfway mark, and made it to the "185" mark with an hour remaining. I commented at that point that they might Just make it 185 on that basis, but it'd be close. Their final score of 243 was admirable to say the least, but I wouldn't want to bet large sums that they Would have made it to the figure they actually required. My main reason for doubt is that their Support has all sorts of troubles and only manages 1 molisk global (Loot can do that to you sometimes, but you all know that). To get the full sweep bonus they still needed globals from 3 more mobs, small hisp, small molisk and a tezlapod. The 3 hardest to global on from the entire list...

But we can't know what would have happened, of course.

This was a genuine mistake. I know Hurri well enough to know that he is utterly mortified by what's happened. Giving people a Bad time is very very far from the man's preferred effect on the world(s) around him. And rest assured that I feel just dreadful about my part in it too.

If it was my decision, I'd have to say Greece go through, with massive apologies to Norway for the typo. (Thereby risking Skam's wrath, not an attractive proposition). It's not my decision though.

Maybe there is a solution that suits everyone.
If anyone can find one, it's Hurri.

Keep the opinions coming. Feedback is good.

 

[Silver Viking]

Unlike many I think it was a good idea for Hurri to start this thread. Yes, he is The Man as far as the WoF goes, but a good leader listens to the people under him and around him, and all he is doing is gauging opinion ans seeking solutions that perhaps he hadn't considered. I have far more respect for him for taking that approach than if he'd simply prounced his verdict from on high.

I sm gutted about this for Norway. I was their Judge for this match and so was just as responsible for passing on the incorrect information. Like them I hadn't checked the numbers before pasing them on, I saw no reason to.

As Spike mention, Hurri provided this service for many teams. I can only speak for Wales (for whom I compete) but Hurri's figures ("You need to beat Canada by 103 points") only confirmed what we already knew. I so wish someone in the Norway squad had said to me "185? You sure about that..?"

As Norway's judge I got to watch their score rate over the three hours. While they were still in high gear they got to around 92 points at the halfway mark, and made it to the "185" mark with an hour remaining. I commented at that point that they might Just make it 185 on that basis, but it'd be close. Their final score of 243 was admirable to say the least, but I wouldn't want to bet large sums that they Would have made it to the figure they actually required. My main reason for doubt is that their Support has all sorts of troubles and only manages 1 molisk global (Loot can do that to you sometimes, but you all know that). To get the full sweep bonus they still needed globals from 3 more mobs, small hisp, small molisk and a tezlapod. The 3 hardest to global on from the entire list...

But we can't know what would have happened, of course.

This was a genuine mistake. I know Hurri well enough to know that he is utterly mortified by what's happened. Giving people a Bad time is very very far from the man's preferred effect on the world(s) around him. And rest assured that I feel just dreadful about my part in it too.

If it was my decision, I'd have to say Greece go through, with massive apologies to Norway for the typo. (Thereby risking Skam's wrath, not an attractive proposition). It's not my decision though.

Maybe there is a solution that suits everyone.
If anyone can find one, it's Hurri.

Keep the opinions coming. Feedback is good.

First of all, no matter what Hurricane decide I dont think he have to fear the wrath of Skam ( or anyone else in the Norwegian team )

When it comes to what we could have gotten if and when and what, nobody knows, I paticipate on the support teams when I can, and when I logged on last fight, I was told that we had the points we needed, so I just logged off again to do what I should be doing RL ........

I like to reapeat what I have said earlier, no matter what happens to Norway, Greece should be in stage 4 with no " conditions "

Finally I can say that whatever happens from here, I will provide a calculator for the norwegian team to make sure this wont happen to us again


S V

 

[GoNi]

I so wish someone in the Norway squad had said to me "185? You sure about that..?"

Thats the point! A serious team should have known what points are needed befor you told the wrong information, and they should have asked if you are sure about it. What they obviously haven´t done!

They didn´t ask, and rely on a wrong number told to them.
Conclusion: They didn´t do their homework, and lost because they have been to lazy to do their homework. Its their own fault!

 

[Harald]

Well as the Team Captain of Norway... I would like to say something to spare Hurri for more troubling thoughs then needed. Team Norway is out of the WoF circus 2009.

As all Norwegains know it's our National day on the next round of WoF, and we will have problems putting together a team anyways.
So enjoy the National day and let loose since we are out of the WoF.

So congratulations and good luck to Greece in proceeding to stage 4.

I only feel sorry for the Norwegain Squad that work their ass off yesterday... and I just want to salute them for their good job. But they collected not enough points after all.

Chopper and Hurikkane you forgiven... it's human to make mistakes..

So maybe next year, S V can keep track of our score since he got a calc.

 

[Borealis]

Post no longer relevant due to Harald's post above.

 

[Silver Viking]

Well as the Team Captain of Norway... I would like to say something to spare Hurri for more troubling thoughs then needed. Team Norway is out of the WoF circus 2009.

As all Norwegains know it's our National day on the next round of WoF, and we will have problems putting together a team anyways.
So enjoy the National day and let loose since we are out of the WoF.

So congratulations and good luck to Greece in proceeding to stage 4.

I only feel sorry for the Norwegain Squad that work their ass off yesterday... and I just want to salute them for their good job. But they collected not enough points after all.

Chopper and Hurikkane you forgiven... it's human to make mistakes..

So maybe next year, S V can keep track of our score since he got a calc.

The Captain has spoken

Good luck to Greece and the rest of the participants in stage 4 and tnx for the fun in WoF this year
We will be back

S V
( off to get some batteries for my calulator )

 

[Lugzan]

have to say Greece made no mistake and should move on this time.

team has to know the base and mission critical data. IRL you get the wrong data and your team ends down dead - tough luck but even if data is corrected later on it still wont bring your team back. yes, in PE we have resurrection but it is not actually possible (yet).

Hurrikane, your mistake was to take too much on yourself! lessons learnt :

1. you only need to provide the teams the data as "fight starts Now" and "stop shooting", X is your judge etc. you DO NOT have to provide the data anyone can check themselves! from now on simply state in rules or somewhere as a sidenote - if you ask me additional or non mandatory information I'll be glad to help if there is enough time for that but I am a human and can do mistakes. =)

2. to ease solving similar or more complicated situations in the future, a group of judges (preferably not influenced) should be considered to vote for the most proper way of handling any emerging case.

I feel terribly sorry for Norway, believe me. but it is impossible to predict if you actually would have taken those extra points needed. yes, most likely that could have happened but as we all know very well, even the toughest teams have had extremely bad periods and in that case only a 30-60 minutes of such unluck would have destroyed your hopes. at this moment guessing ifs is the same as to flip a coin and we do not want to rely on that, do we. re-arranging the match or putting two competing teams against each other would be the same unpredictable as picking the side of a penny. I suggest you to respect the decision of Hurrikane with honour, whichever it will be.


yours,


J.


P.S. captain of Norway speaks gold =)

 

[True Juan]

I see that Harald made a decision but I'll just add my point of view.

Hurricane: "Guys, u need 185 points to make it to the next round"
Norway member: "Hmmm, are you sure? I counted the score and thought we need 285"
Hurricane: "Wait" (looks in his sheets) "Oh yeah u'r right... sorry...
Norway member: "No probs "


Nothing to discuss here. Greece -> next round. Norway -> sorry to say, but out

But Harald already decided so my post is pointless

 

[Hurrikane]

Thanks to all for their input in this, most of all the Norwegians, who have chosen to let the Scores stand. I fear for my life if I ever visit Norway but that's another matter.

To answer some of the questions brought up by this thread; why didn't I just make a ruling, whatever was thought? The Rules state a vote will take place on tricky issues (more or less). This has happened before on other subjects without a problem. I, as you see, am not flawless, and in a case like this the wrong decision leaves 1 or 2 teams or everyone else pissed off, and obviously, none of this is good for the Tournament.

So until Norway nobly allowed the score to stand, I was left with very few options, and hoped the WoF-going public might suggest others.

The reason this became an issue is with my statement that they needed 185, the Norwegians went out with mis-information that affected their gameplay. The reason I gave the head's up was the same reason for each team, to let them know when to ease off and save a few PED for the next round. I appreciate what some are saying about the Team's need to check their own scores, but it is me that is called on for these scores, and my word is supposed to be worth something in this event; I cannot lay any blame on Norway's part. I also have no problem with Greece, who have just reacted as anyone would on being told their achievements are in possible jeopardy.

So with Norways gracious agreement, the WoF continues, with Greece in their Group as they should be, no fifth team, no elimination.

I remain utterly apologetic to Norway; if we were not held to the extra spawns and when they appear, it would still seem unfair to ask you to hunt again, or for other teams to await a second result that would affect their own progress. Likewise, being allowed into Stage 4 as a 5 team group is not fair on those other teams who narrowly missed progressing.

There were not many ways out of this, but Norway have found one that works for everyone except them, and I thank them for that. Only the news that the coming weekend is the Norwegians National Holiday makes me feel any better about it.

Needless to say, the pre-match scores head's up was an unplanned addition that may not get a repeat showing.

So Team Norway, thank you for your understanding and efforts so far. If you have any problems with all this please PM me.

Team Greece, sorry for casting doubts on your WoF future, and best of luck in Stage 4.

Hurrikane

 

[safara]

Needless to say, the pre-match scores head's up was an unplanned addition that may not get a repeat showing.

I dont think these should figure in the WoF in any form. It is not up to the organisers to let the contestants how hard their upcoming battle is going to be.

It is up to Hurri and the judges to record, collect and publish the result of matches. And make sure the rules are followed.

It is not up to the judges to get involved with how teams plan their hunts. This is up to the teams, and all part of the strategic end of competing in the WoF

Well done Harald and the rest of Team Norway. You guys got close this year

The WoF Rolls on

 

[Indi]

Oh man, oh man...... what a situation....
As a member of greek main team, this wof's round was the hardest ever for me and my team. Many problems came ahead...

First we all know the massive eu crash that put many teams in position to repeat their matches.... Norway is one of them....

i know i would not be happy to repeat a match as the cost for one wof match is very high for mid-lvl players such us....

on the other hand for team Norway, to repeat the match with Chechz after they knew the final scores of the greek team was an andvantage...

as our scores was so near, i remember my anxious if they could get the score they needed....

with the right preparation they would get it easily.... especially with a good organization in support team.... with friends from all over.... it shouldn't be hard to find more for support team...

but that's the wof.... something that is bad in first place... turns to be good finally.... i accept it and walk forward...

So with that advantage for Norway team, i would waiting from them to have done their homework and preparation and outscoring us....

I feel sorry for Hurri's wrong info to norway's team.... yeap a human fault....
i made many such faults during wof.... you can ask my teamates how many misinformations i gave them....

but it's our responsibility, a team's responsibility to handle them, even the wrong ones, cause we take the decisions about what to do....

hurri's fault wasn't a fatal error for me.... ( like to said stop hunting before the 3 hours limit or like the elimination of certain mob spawns that could affect the score of a team )... that's my opinion.

So i feel that my team.. the greek team should pass to next round.... as the second team of it's group. That was our dream, that was for what we fought.

sorry for my bad english...
thank you all for sharing your feelings...

after all it's just a game.... a very dynamic game...

 

[WoenK]

As stated before, for future occasions "all scores are final" should be implemented.
And only official information should be the scoreboard.
Teams can and should do the maths on their own.

 

[Lee]

To answer some of the questions brought up by this thread; why didn't I just make a ruling, whatever was thought? The Rules state a vote will take place on tricky issues (more or less). This has happened before on other subjects without a problem. I, as you see, am not flawless, and in a case like this the wrong decision leaves 1 or 2 teams or everyone else pissed off, and obviously, none of this is good for the Tournament.

So until Norway nobly allowed the score to stand, I was left with very few options, and hoped the WoF-going public might suggest others.

Hurrikane

Glad it got sorted peacefully and now WoF steams on ahead. I see where you were coming from with this poll Hurri, guess in some ways it was 'damned if you do and damned if you don't', and you took the route you thought best. Never think that me disagreeing on any topic changes anything about what a great guy I think you are, the 'gentle giant' that can be tough when he needs to be

Another fellow I think a lot of once told me 'don’t take game stuff personally, how can somebody have a judgement on another person after a handful of typed lines to each other?' Amen, wish we could all remember that more often.

 

[kygon]

As stated before, for future occasions "all scores are final" should be implemented.

or how about " no scores are final " and can be until proven to be inaccurate until final approval by WoF and team score counter.

 

[Borealis]

or how about " no scores are final " and can be until proven to be inaccurate until final approval by WoF and team score counter.

I agree with this one.

 

[Jimmy B]

Kudos to Norway

I think it was the only real option, Option 1 would have been very hard on Greece and Option 2 would have been unfair on whichever unlucky team got the pleasure of competing against the best of two teams instead of one.

I think it highlights a slight problem with the scoring in WoF. It's been pretty hard for teams to work out where they stand in this group stage (especially with postponements, half-matches, etc). Whilst all the nice score tables, etc, are good to look at, I think we need the scores on the forum soon after the match (just in text form). Maybe have a scoring thread where each judge posts their preliminary score from each match after checking against Tracker. Quicker the scores go up the quicker any score disputes can be ironed out, so official scores from one weekend are known before the next weekend's matches.

 

[Harald]

I think it highlights a slight problem with the scoring in WoF. It's been pretty hard for teams to work out where they stand in this group stage (especially with postponements, half-matches, etc). Whilst all the nice score tables, etc, are good to look at, I think we need the scores on the forum soon after the match (just in text form). Maybe have a scoring thread where each judge posts their preliminary score from each match after checking against Tracker. Quicker the scores go up the quicker any score disputes can be ironed out, so official scores from one weekend are known before the next weekend's matches.

I think this would help.

 

[Lee]

I think it highlights a slight problem with the scoring in WoF. It's been pretty hard for teams to work out where they stand in this group stage (especially with postponements, half-matches, etc). Whilst all the nice score tables, etc, are good to look at, I think we need the scores on the forum soon after the match (just in text form). Maybe have a scoring thread where each judge posts their preliminary score from each match after checking against Tracker. Quicker the scores go up the quicker any score disputes can be ironed out, so official scores from one weekend are known before the next weekend's matches.

I like this idea a lot. As it is, we share our prelimarary scores with Hurri at the time (but that doesn't always happen or work well ala the Scotland v Finland boo boo) and then pm them to Hurri and RJ here, sometimes some just post them on the judges thread etc. If we all had a specific thread here to post our scores that would accomplish the same thing, plus Hurri and anyone else (other judges, teams etc) who noted scores could compare and iron out any mistakes fairly fast.

I also agree that 'no scores are final' until checked and double checked and posted on scoreboard by Hurri as being final. If folks really want to know what it is looking like, they will then have the judging score thread to look at and see in advance of the final score being posted.

 

[Coop_]

Kudos to Norway


I think it highlights a slight problem with the scoring in WoF. It's been pretty hard for teams to work out where they stand in this group stage (especially with postponements, half-matches, etc). Whilst all the nice score tables, etc, are good to look at, I think we need the scores on the forum soon after the match (just in text form). Maybe have a scoring thread where each judge posts their preliminary score from each match after checking against Tracker. Quicker the scores go up the quicker any score disputes can be ironed out, so official scores from one weekend are known before the next weekend's matches.

I'll add my support for this idea. I've been working up scorecards for many of the matches, but it's often quite difficult to find the "official" score to compare to.

That was my main thought as I read through this whole thread:
Did Norway have all the correct official scores to add up themselves or not?

I sure feel for them though, looks like they had quite an effort in their last match, and it would have been exciting to see them push to the wire.

 

[Jimmy B]

As it is, we share our prelimarary scores with Hurri at the time (but that doesn't always happen or work well ala the Scotland v Finland boo boo) and then pm them to Hurri and RJ here, sometimes some just post them on the judges thread etc. If we all had a specific thread here to post our scores that would accomplish the same thing, plus Hurri and anyone else (other judges, teams etc) who noted scores could compare and iron out any mistakes fairly fast.

Yeah, and at the moment different judges are no doubt doing different things.

After each match I've judged, I have PM'ed my scorecard to RJ, Hurri and the Captain of the team I was judging. The teams always seem to appreciate that, and I've always emphasised it's only provisional.

If we do something like that, but instead post it to a general thread then everyone has the information to use as they will.