Question: P2P trading in Entropia, How to make it better?

[mrproper]

What would make you to exclusively use p2p trading instead of the auction? Or should I say what's keeping you from doing so, we know you want to...

- Better prices (closer to auction dictate market price instead of 100% for most of the stuff traded p2p)
- More availability (more traders/players available online when you play for more trading opportunities)
- Distributed availability (more places where you can find traders/players when needed)
- Easier and faster trading (instead of shouting or reading shouts and waiting for trade windows, and bargaining and calculating)
- Other (would you want other incentives besides those of the above, if so which?)

 

[mrproper]

Post your ideas or previous threads/posts on this issue, we might all learn new things or make a better future for everyone.

Post Notes:
- you may vote something else besides Better Price, if you feel it's equally important or what would put you off p2p trading even if the price were right.
- if Better Price is what's driving you away from p2p trading, do vote on that
- if you don't have an opinion on what you should vote personally, think about what others would prefer instead
- poll ends in 2 weeks, vote away, we shall see where we get from there...

 

[johan roadkill]

it takes for ever to sell even for a shitty price

so both price and More availability

 

[Futurama]

From my own experience: unless you have some good crafter friends and connections, be prepared to get shitty offers.

Example: i was trading away a bulk of ores, enmaters and some animal oils and hides (nothing was tt stuff really, everything had decent usage). It wasn`t a large pile but still, i had maybe 40 peds of gazz in there - the trader offered for my whole pile less than that 40 ped of gazz is/was worth. So i canceled, tried another one - i got slightly better but still its no where near market values.

I really prefer to pay the auction fee, rather than feeding some low-life "traders" who live off noobs that can`t afford to mine, hunt with decent budget and aren`t able to stack up materials to decent amounts.


So i always prefer auction, unless i sell something to a soc mate or someone i know.

 

[mrproper]

it takes for ever to sell even for a shitty price

so both price and More availability

For future readers, vote something else besides Better price, even it's a secondary reason, I might make a better poll in the future...

 

[johan roadkill]

For future readers, vote something else besides Better price, even it's a secondary reason, I might make a better poll in the future...

well waiting is only anoying the prices are unacceptable

 

[mrproper]

well waiting is only anoying the prices are unacceptable

I agree....

I wonder if the crafters will prefer p2p trading if the prices were better than the auction prices...

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

I once tried to sell some resource (cant remember exactly what it was, some enmatter I think) with a bit over 110% MV at twins, the highest offer I got (for about 50-60PED tt worth) was 103%... after that, I only use auction for trading

 

[mastermesh]

So i always prefer auction, unless i sell something to a soc mate or someone i know.

Which is why it's nice to have big societies.

 

[mrproper]

According to this poll: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...he-Auction-or-Player-to-player-trades-to-sell

There is no incentive or there are major draw-downs for p2p trading, I know some people resent the trader role in a an economy (the pioneers that ignited the creation of the rich middle class and got us from peasants, sheepherders and hunters into well-dressed office working civilized individuals), but in theory p2p trading could be better for anyone involved in it, as an alternative to the automated government issued system (the Auction). I also know that some people found locked-in solutions such as a list of private traders or in-society systems which they can't or won't share with anyone else.

Let me be the blind fool to believe we can do better, and guide me by voting on the above poll.

I do have some models/ideas/designs sitting around for 3-4 years, mostly because they offer small benefits while adding complexity. The economy is changing at the moment (planet-bracketed economies) and opportunities might arise for everyone. I will not address the auction or the shops, history has shown that they are rarely win-win situations and their design and improvements will be addressed by the system creator.

 

[mrproper]

Bump, I require at least 100 votes on this

 

[Magyar_Republic]

I once tried to sell some resource (cant remember exactly what it was, some enmatter I think) with a bit over 110% MV at twins, the highest offer I got (for about 50-60PED tt worth) was 103%... after that, I only use auction for trading

This = Truth.

I got a 6000 PED oil loot at one point, and one of the twins resellers told me it was TT fodder, despite having a 103% markup, and he would give me 100.5%

I said: ORLY? Then I suppose I should just TT it. He begged me to sell to him all the way to the TT.

Resell all you want. Just dont lie to players about prices.

 

[Sircus]

With the introduction of orders I dont usually visit traders anymore.

 

[Therred]

Need New Trading System

I have thought a bit about this myself and I think what is needed is a new trading system which is organized outside of EU.

It would be nice if there was a way to organize your friends list and add notes next to friends so you could more easily keep track of stuff. Would also be nice if there were a way to rate buyers/sellers with some sort of 'reputation'. Societies work well if you have crafters that need large amounts of raw materials.

What I think would be great is a sort of out-of-game auction with no fees. MA has no incentive to facilitate PVP trading on a mass scale. If someone created a site where orders/offers could be placed and contacts made and saved for future trades. Some way to link folks up with buyers/sellers. That would be nice. Maybe Ill get bored someday and make one.

What are your ideas Mr Beaver? I feel like you might have ideas and you are testing them against ours.

 

[mrproper]

I have thought a bit about this myself and I think what is needed is a new trading system which is organized outside of EU.

It would be nice if there was a way to organize your friends list and add notes next to friends so you could more easily keep track of stuff. Would also be nice if there were a way to rate buyers/sellers with some sort of 'reputation'. Societies work well if you have crafters that need large amounts of raw materials.

What I think would be great is a sort of out-of-game auction with no fees. MA has no incentive to facilitate PVP trading on a mass scale. If someone created a site where orders/offers could be placed and contacts made and saved for future trades. Some way to link folks up with buyers/sellers. That would be nice. Maybe Ill get bored someday and make one.

What are your ideas Mr Beaver? I feel like you might have ideas and you are testing them against ours.

You're hired! Do you by any chance accept payment in lumber logs?

Your ideas match some of the poll options. At the moment only traders give any effort into the trading ecuation, sellers do not have sites, price sheets and so on. Maybe they don't need to. We might see....

 

[diver]

how about a trading rating system that shows when you open up a pvp trade , like so many stars = so many trades. that way if you see someone with say a star and little 103 beside it , you would know they made 103 successful trades.
maybe even a little space for feedback comments?? or a webby with traders , their usual market , and reps and feedback on each

 

[Strangelove]

I sell basically everything to TT or save until I have enough to make auction worth it. I don't mind the fees for convenience.

I don't sell to traders generally because I get a better price from auction. I have nothing against traders. Spare me the "traders are vampires" rants. We need traders in game to make the economy function. Bad traders will generally spend a ton of time looking for someone to screw....it's not worth it to most traders. The good traders make ped through volume and knowing prices and being willing to spend hours on something that bores me.

I don't generally sell to soc mates because they will often want a good price and have me come back to tp when I am way out in the sticks mining...for 10 ped worth of whatever. Often I spend would spend a half hour waiting for them while they screw around. Personally, I want to spend as much time mining as possible when I am in game. Auction allows me to do so for a slight fee.

I do use the P2P trading system when I know I can save a decent amount of ped on fees or that person has an item I want...and they don't screw around.

Out of game trades are a bad idea IMO. You're on your own at that point. Those that have set up websites with quotes generally give a much worse price than auction. I have nothing against people doing so but between the lower MU & time it takes to make a trade I prefer auction.

As an example of why I don't like to do a lot of soc trades is that someone in soc had several items they wanted to sell to another soc mate at tt so they asked me to do so while out of town. I asked the other mate if they needed them, they did not after I spent a half hour at some tp. Then Ark opened up before the first soc mate logged back in I could not get anyone to return the items to the first avatar. So I am on Ark with tt items in Calypso storage which belong to someone else. Either he pays me the fee to get back his tt items, he pays the fee to fly to Ark and I will pay him ped or he waits until I come down.

Using the in game auction and P2P keeps me out of drama and I can mine or do whatever I want for a small fee.

What might work is a modified private auction. You could place stacks or items in the auction one at a time, just like normal auction. The twist is that you could designate someone from your FL or your entire soc as the only buyers. The buyer and seller would pay a small fee. MA collects some fees and people are freed up to hunt, mine, etc. If ppl want to use normal trade window, they could do so and save on the fees. I would likely use such a system.

JMHO.

CO

 

[Dblood1]

Well the orders on auction are usually a better offer then what the "traders" gives so, I rarely do P2P trade anymore. I dont think it can be improved in anyway, not technically.

 

[mrproper]

Thank you all for voicing your ideas and sorrows, and possibly for voting. I'll explore this idea further (everything everyone said here is basically known just that nobody has implemented such a system). The only thing I see MA getting a helping hand in this is by creating some sort of Society Storage, with a Guest UI system (able to pick up and to drop off items) and a journal (similar to society terminal logs). Decay on the thing could pay for it's usage as a tool to increase trading availability. Then again this would compete with shops and shop estates (which can be set to private and allow items drop-off).

Anyway, keep voting while the poll is open, and stay tuned for another one.