PC: UL Mining Amps

[JohnCapital]

Curious about going rate on these.

I completely understand the freedom of being able to repair, instead of going to auction/shop.

I completely understand for future fluctuations in amp market.

However, with current amps prices, availability, etc. I'm having trouble seeing more than a few k peds savings vs. just buying (L).

Am i wrong?

 

[ZPF]

I agree very much so.

The level 7 UL amp I could see catching a fair price as the markup on these is currently floating around 110% on auction vs 103% for the Level 5, but that's still nothing compared to what these amps USED to sell for. I honestly don't see the markups rising significantly anytime soon.

If I remember correctly, level 7 amps are 120 PED TT selling at around 110% so let's say you save 12 PED per amp on average.

That means if you burn through 1000 amps, you saved 12,000 PED.

For a level 5, you save 6 PED per amp. So if you burn through 600 of these (same TT decay as burning through 1000 Level 7s), you only saved 3600 PED.

I'm assuming anyone ballsy enough to buy one of these is planning to burn through at least that much TT worth of ampage before they get bored of it. So what it comes down to is, how likely are you going to be able to re-sell this around the markup you bought it for? And to that question I honestly have no idea.

On the other hand, if you plan on getting 10,000 amps worth of mileage out of the UNL Level 7, it almost pays for itself. But with the current state of mining, markups, volatility of returns... simply not worth it at all IMO except for hardest of the hardcore miners who don't give a

 

[Gewitter]

It is easy to calculate. Not for gambling on FOMA or other indoor mining places. Only for single drops, because true miners working for MU and most drops in this case are single, not double or triple.

It is possible to do up to 1200 attempts per day planetside (based on fact that you are not a robot and need some time for excavating your findings). This is approx 4-5 hours of hardcore mining per day.

For level 7 amp:

120 PED (L) and UL Amp, 40 possible attempts. 9% current MU.

Economy for level 7 amp is:
30x10,8 PED=324 PED per Day savings on MU
additional decay of the Portable Repair Unit 30x0,065=1,95 PED.
So you can save 322 PED/day, 9660 PED/Month, 115920 PED/Year

ROI if price = 150k is 16 months
IMO fair ROI is ~1 year, so fair price is ~110-120K

For level 5 amp:

200 PED (L) Amp, 100(Ark), or 99 (other planets) possible attempts. 3% current MU.
113 PED UL Amp, 56 possible attempts.

It is possible to burn up to 12 (L) amps per day planetside, or 21 UL amps

Economy for level 5 amp is:
12x6 PED=72 PED per Day savings on MU
additional decay of the Portable Repair Unit 21x0,065=1,37 PED.
So you can save 70,5 PED/day, 2115 PED/Month, 25380 PED/Year

ROI if price is 100k = 4 years

Fair price for Level 5 UL is 25-30K (ROI 1 year)

Same calculation for old MU 109%:
12х18=216 PED
Savings: 214 PED/day, 6420 PED/month, 77040 PED/year. I know about one sale for 85K in the past, so it was close to fair price. With current MU 103% on (L) version, 85k or 100k or 120k is just ridicolous price

For level 3 amp:

114 PED (L) Amp, 114 possible attempts. 6% current MU.
100 PED UL Amp, 100 possible attempts.

It is possible to burn up to 11 (L) amps per day planetside, or 12 UL amps

Economy for level 3 amp is:
11x6,84 PED=75,24 PED per Day savings on MU
additional decay of the Portable Repair Unit 12x0,065=0,78 PED.
So you can save 74,5 PED/day, 2235 PED/Month, 26820 PED/Year

ROI if price = 28k is a little more than 1 year

Fair price for Level 3 UL is 25-27K (ROI 1 year)

For level 2 amp:

100 PED (L) Amp, 200 possible attempts. 6% current MU.
78 PED UL Amp, 156 possible attempts.

It is possible to burn up to 6 (L) amps per day planetside, or 8 UL amps

Economy for level 2 amp is:
6x6 PED=36 PED per Day savings on MU
additional decay of the Portable Repair Unit 8x0,065=0,52 PED
So you can save 35,5 PED/day, 1065 PED/Month, 12780 PED/Year

ROI if price = 10k is less than a year

Fair price for Level 2 UL is 12-13K (ROI 1 year)

Important!
This calculation is valid only for current MU's!

Added: Prices for gamblers can be arbitrarily large, they have enough money for losses

 

[qamori]

It is possible to do up to 1200 attempts per day planetside

1200 drops per day, every single day of the year?
Seems a bit stretched, maybe you can divide it by 3 to make it more realistic

 

[Gewitter]

1200 drops per day, every single day of the year?
Seems a bit stretched, maybe you can divide it by 3 to make it more realistic

It is nevertheless possible, so I think 1200 is ok

In your case you can divide the fair price on 3.

In addition, lvl 5 and 7 amplifiers will reduce some of your mining possibilities, so that I would not pay for it so much money. Level 2 and 3 is ok

 

[zeusrocktropian]

It is nevertheless possible, so I think 1200 is ok

In your case you can divide the fair price on 3.

In addition, lvl 5 and 7 amplifiers will reduce some of your mining possibilities, so that I would not pay for it so much money. Level 2 and 3 is ok

So, for a drop you need to:
Move: ~7 seconds
Move to claim: ~7 seconds
Extract: ~7 seconds


More or less, however that alone brings you to 7 hours with no calculation of bigger claims or break for eating, loo-ing, phone, smoke or what not. And that is for unamped.

In my personal experience I had a few(!) days with around 1.2k drops but the session was spread to around 10-12 hours.

 

[Gewitter]

So, for a drop you need to:
Move: ~7 seconds
Move to claim: ~7 seconds
Extract: ~7 seconds


More or less, however that alone brings you to 7 hours with no calculation of bigger claims or break for eating, loo-ing, phone, smoke or what not. And that is for unamped.

In my personal experience I had a few(!) days with around 1.2k drops but the session was spread to around 10-12 hours.

Okay, you convinced me, therefore fair prices even lower

 

[atomicstorm]

There is also convenience. It isn't about the tool somehow paying itself off because that consideration is only for something that can't be sold (user bound items). I cycled quite a lot in two months.. I managed to theoretically save about 8k peds in markup on amps.. and it is helpful to know that during times that you can't hit anything and get 81% on 200k cycled (approx).

Level 2 and 3 is great to have for the small bankrolls. Anyone with a level 5 7 or 8 better have a large Bankroll to weather storms and a mental disposition (which I don't have) to handle it.. which is strange since I was a card counter for 3 years and dealt with much larger swings.. this game apparently makes me a pussy.

 

[Gewitter]

I cycled quite a lot in two months.. I managed to theoretically save about 8k peds in markup on amps.. and it is helpful to know that during times that you can't hit anything and get 81% on 200k cycled (approx).

Yes, 81% is bad result. I have 91% TT for this month and of course more than 100% with MU (including amps MU, amps are NOT 5 or 7 of course).

FYI: about 40k cycled

 

[Dergin Skellig]

hmm

Great question JC.

I haven't mined in close to a decade, so these look interesting to me. I'll have to check them out when I have some time to research and game tonight.

 

[Rocket192]

Well if you look at it from the respect of the markups on mining loots...

2 years ago averaging 125% markup was a piece of cake.... grind shinook for 127% gazz (60%) 118% Duru (25%) and 115% Belkar (5%) and kanerium, redulite, rugaritz which make up the remaining 5% of distribution.

My logs indicate an average markup of 126% markup before the shrapnel/explosives bp VU. And I mined shinook virtually exclusively...

Now I would say its extremely uncommon if not impossible to average that kind of markup on every single run without hitting rares every time.. which IS impossible.

Back then unamped = 111% to break even without finder/extractor markup considered..

That 111% holds true for today, but the markup obtained is much much lower.

Back then L amps were much high markup (117.5% to break even with a lvl 5 amp @ 108.5%)

Basically put two and two together and what you get is a pathetically massive drop in L amp markups from lvl 1-5... lvl 7 UL still holds some value since their L markups are still 110%.


You profit less now with UL amps than you did in the past = Lower ROI = lower value of UL amps

= odds are no one is selling their UL amps anytime soon because there's a fat chance in hell they'll get what they paid out of them, or even close to it. I'd be hard pressed to pay more than 4k for a ul lvl 2

 

[Gewitter]

I would pay 25K for UL level 5, but current owners would not selling for this price.
They hope to recover what they invested. But it's too late.
There is still ways to profit with UL, but these ways are more hard than in the past and are not for all EU miners.
But in the case of the level 5 amplifier it is more for convenience than for the greater profits, because the current MU on limited amplifiers easily pays for itself and does not require unlimited version.

And yes, I would pay 10k for UL lvl 2. Because (do not wait for explanation)

FYI:

2 years ago averaging 125% markup was a piece of cake.... grind shinook for 127% gazz (60%) 118% Duru (25%) and 115% Belkar (5%) and kanerium, redulite, rugaritz which make up the remaining 5% of distribution.

Now Gazz is almost removed from there (5% max). There is Belkar and Duru (60/30%) with a little inclusion of Kane/Redu. Due to Belkar is now 102-103%, Duru is 112-115% all other ores cannot break 10% paid to MA and most amps MU.

 

[ZPF]

Well if you look at it from the respect of the markups on mining loots...

2 years ago averaging 125% markup was a piece of cake.... grind shinook for 127% gazz (60%) 118% Duru (25%) and 115% Belkar (5%) and kanerium, redulite, rugaritz which make up the remaining 5% of distribution.

My logs indicate an average markup of 126% markup before the shrapnel/explosives bp VU. And I mined shinook virtually exclusively...

Now I would say its extremely uncommon if not impossible to average that kind of markup on every single run without hitting rares every time.. which IS impossible.

Back then unamped = 111% to break even without finder/extractor markup considered..

That 111% holds true for today, but the markup obtained is much much lower.

Back then L amps were much high markup (117.5% to break even with a lvl 5 amp @ 108.5%)

Basically put two and two together and what you get is a pathetically massive drop in L amp markups from lvl 1-5... lvl 7 UL still holds some value since their L markups are still 110%.


You profit less now with UL amps than you did in the past = Lower ROI = lower value of UL amps

= odds are no one is selling their UL amps anytime soon because there's a fat chance in hell they'll get what they paid out of them, or even close to it. I'd be hard pressed to pay more than 4k for a ul lvl 2

A bit off topic but as far as resource distribution goes I've noticed (like you mentioned to me in a recent PM) that it comes in "waves" at least with the valuable ores. I've scoured Shinook for an hour and hit 80 Gazz/0 Duru/20 Belk and then come back the next day to find 0 Gazz/30 Duru/70 Belk, in the same revival zones. I really wish I knew the mystery behind this or if it's just entirely randomly generated. This makes it very frustrating to mine "intelligently".

 

[Gewitter]

A bit off topic but as far as resource distribution goes I've noticed (like you mentioned to me in a recent PM) that it comes in "waves" at least with the valuable ores. I've scoured Shinook for an hour and hit 80 Gazz/0 Duru/20 Belk and then come back the next day to find 0 Gazz/30 Duru/70 Belk, in the same revival zones. I really wish I knew the mystery behind this or if it's just entirely randomly generated. This makes it very frustrating to mine "intelligently".

Gazz comes in waves, yep, but these waves are too short. Most of the time there is only Belkar or Duru.

 

[Divinity]

You can talk all u want but the fact is that lvl 2 was sold as recently as 2 days ago for 15k pure peds.

I wish everyone gl getting what they want at the price they want

 

[Gewitter]

You can talk all u want but the fact is that lvl 2 was sold as recently as 2 days ago for 15k pure peds.

I wish everyone gl getting what they want at the price they want

I do not care for how much it was sold. We talking about a fair price, and anyone can make any foolishness, which he wants Someone clicks Explo IV, someone else bought Equus, and so on

 

[mczimi]

And what about the lvl 4 Ul amp what range you can see that amp?

 

[Gewitter]

And what about the lvl 4 Ul amp what range you can see that amp?

Unfortunately, level 4 UL does not exist. If it were, I would offer at least 50k+.
I understand your interest I use level 4 (L) or Level 2 (L) atm.
And I strongly want Ziplex D52 UL

 

[Neil Stockton]

You can talk all u want but the fact is that lvl 2 was sold as recently as 2 days ago for 15k pure peds.

I wish everyone gl getting what they want at the price they want

There will always be those who pay way too much for something.

Buying a UL amp in today's mining climate is like buying an antique lamp. You'll spend many times more than someone who bought a practical modern version for the same amount of light. It doesn't have a practical economic value but you want it because it's unique or pretty or it makes you feel special to own something that other people can't have. Don't buy a UL amp for economic reasons, only do it if you have lots of spare cash and you don't know what to do with it.

 

[Divinity]

I do not care for how much it was sold. We talking about a fair price, and anyone can make any foolishness, which he wants Someone clicks Explo IV, someone else bought Equus, and so on

Problem is you are not discussing fair price but your personal interpretation of it and it is no way similar to EP BP clicking or Equus buying.

When fair price is concerned, any item irl can be compared and the cost of the tool needs to be justified in 3-4 years and not 1 year as is according to you (First bias). Secondly the reason the amortization irl is done for 3-4 years is usually the lifetime of the product , since essentially everything irl is (L) by definition and there is nothing (UL).

Assuming you are a serious miner, you already make profit with (L) gear I would assume. Now lets talk about lvl 7 amp for example. Any serious miner would go through at least 15-20 amps/day. On avg 300 days/year he would be going through. Thats 4500-6000 amps a year. Thats 50-70k in savings or profit on L amp markup a year. In 2-3 years the amp is paying for itself. If that does not make sense, well I am pretty sure you are playing the wrong game ( or maybe I have been).

Supply demand eventually determines price in EU and if tomorrow MA drops huge amounts of ul amps all of them will be worth < 50k am sure. However if that happens, mu will be even lower on all the materials then it is now and everything will be near tt and so there will be really no advantage to using ul amps at all.


Just my 2 cents.

 

[Gewitter]

Problem is you are not discussing fair price but your personal interpretation of it and it is no way similar to EP BP clicking or Equus buying.

When fair price is concerned, any item irl can be compared and the cost of the tool needs to be justified in 3-4 years and not 1 year as is according to you (First bias). Secondly the reason the amortization irl is done for 3-4 years is usually the lifetime of the product , since essentially everything irl is (L) by definition and there is nothing (UL).

Assuming you are a serious miner, you already make profit with (L) gear I would assume. Now lets talk about lvl 7 amp for example. Any serious miner would go through at least 15-20 amps/day. On avg 300 days/year he would be going through. Thats 4500-6000 amps a year. Thats 50-70k in savings or profit on L amp markup a year. In 2-3 years the amp is paying for itself. If that does not make sense, well I am pretty sure you are playing the wrong game ( or maybe I have been).

Supply demand eventually determines price in EU and if tomorrow MA drops huge amounts of ul amps all of them will be worth < 50k am sure. However if that happens, mu will be even lower on all the materials then it is now and everything will be near tt and so there will be really no advantage to using ul amps at all.


Just my 2 cents.

You did not read my calculation, an amplifier that you are selling (Level 7) is worth the money that you are asking.

But the purchase (as example) of the Level 5 amplifier for 100K with the current MU for (L) - is absolutely meaningless (based on your 800 attempts/day (I do 400-600 usually) ROI for Level 5 UL will be 6-7 years).

About level 2 amplifiers I want to tell: They are always worth 10k. Some speculators, including you maybe, raised the price for easy money, it does not mean that a fair price has changed.

And about the payback period. I would not risk guessing MU (and ROI) for more than 1 year, due to the current MA strategy. This is the reason why you sell out most your actives. You are not sure that you can get your money back. And you're right. After half a year (or year), it is likely, you will not be able to get them back.

 

[Rocket192]

I can't remember where, but I recently saw a UL lvl5 mining amp for sale for TT+120k or something like that..

If I'm not mistaken isn't that what the UL lvl7 sold for that was a prize for the mining event last year?

With lvl5 amps at 103%, I cycle about 25 of these bad boys a week mining, so that's 150 ped per week I'm losing to markups on amps. Obviously it's not possible to keep up this rate of cycling every single week, but if I did that's roughly 7500 ped per year that I'm saving.

For 120k peds I could put it all into clds at 1780 ped each, and assuming an average return of 3.5 ped per week that's over 11,700 ped in ROI, from doing nothing, every single year.

When we talk about "fair price" we should really classify it as economic worth and what is a reasonable price given its ROI to other similar investments in game.

In this case a UL lvl 5 could be sold for no more than TT+76,923.00 ped to have the exact same ROI as clds, assuming economic conditions remain constant for clds.
Keep in mind that this requires a person to invest hours into this game every single day to be able to cycle over 1,800 double drops per week in order to reap these benefits, compared to doing nothing for the CLDs.

I obviously can't put a dollar amount on the value of the time one would spend mining that much in order to get those benefits because it's subjective. However, just the fact that you can do nothing and earn more from clds than a UL lvl5 amp would probably drop that TT+77,000 price down to somewhere near TT+45k-55k for most players.


As I said before, it's a shitty market for UL mining amps.. If lvl5 amps were still 108-112% markup it would be a different story.. But they're not, and explosive bps made sure of that, so we can't predict that will change anytime soon.

 

[Ace Flyster]

I have never understood the arguments that say. "It saves me such and such, so would take me such and such to pay back the markup i paid for the unlimited amp." while completely ignoring the resell value.

Noone ever considers the resell value. EVERY other item in PE is priced, including the resell value of it, but people never consider this with UL mining amps.

Makes no sense.

Even if you had to sell it a year later 5k less than you bought it. If you saved 7k in a year using it then you made 2k pure profit. Even better if you sell it for what you paid for it.

Madness I tell you, madness


Rgds

Ace

 

[Gewitter]

I obviously can't put a dollar amount on the value of the time one would spend mining that much in order to get those benefits because it's subjective. However, just the fact that you can do nothing and earn more from clds than a UL lvl5 amp would probably drop that TT+77,000 price down to somewhere near TT+45k-55k for most players.

Not 45k, lower and tooooo much. 45k is too high. 25k calculated is close to fair.
But. You forgot only one, that the owner which do a 1800 drops each week, can do additional profit with approximately value 500PED+/week on MU. This will lead us to 560+ ped active profit per week

 

[Gewitter]

I have never understood the arguments that say. "It saves me such and such, so would take me such and such to pay back the markup i paid for the unlimited amp." while completely ignoring the resell value.

Noone ever considers the resell value. EVERY other item in PE is priced, including the resell value of it, but people never consider this with UL mining amps.

Makes no sense.

Even if you had to sell it a year later 5k less than you bought it. If you saved 7k in a year using it then you made 2k pure profit. Even better if you sell it for what you paid for it.

Madness I tell you, madness


Rgds

Ace

I see a big difference how much it will cost later. We can only count savings. You can freeze your money (which will provide you savings, ie profit) and then just bring them back. Looks like that you take into account in the calculation the full size of your bank deposit, which you have given to the bank to make a profit. After one year you get your profits, and found out that the deposit has decreased. You want this?
It looks like obvious nonsense.

 

[Rocket192]

I have never understood the arguments that say. "It saves me such and such, so would take me such and such to pay back the markup i paid for the unlimited amp." while completely ignoring the resell value.

Noone ever considers the resell value. EVERY other item in PE is priced, including the resell value of it, but people never consider this with UL mining amps.

Makes no sense.

Even if you had to sell it a year later 5k less than you bought it. If you saved 7k in a year using it then you made 2k pure profit. Even better if you sell it for what you paid for it.

Madness I tell you, madness


Rgds

Ace

At this rate UL mining amps can only drop in value the way MA is going with this game... while CLD prices continue to rise.. CLDs have much more upward mobility in my opinion.. Resell value of CLDs will be better than UL amps.. forever and always

You forgot only one, that the owner which do a 1800 drops each week, can do additional profit with approximately value 500PED+/week on MU. This will lead us to 560+ ped active profit per week

This is true... and I did forget this. That still doesn't change the value much in my opinion.. and yeah I would be really hard pressed to offer more than TT+30k for a lvl5 amp right now..

Lvl 7 UL is still worth the TT+100-120k though, because they still have a 110% markup

 

[Divinity]

About level 2 amplifiers I want to tell: They are always worth 10k. Some speculators, including you maybe, raised the price for easy money, it does not mean that a fair price has changed.

I have nothing to do with lvl 2 amps at all. I might have sold a couple but hardly ever made any profit on them as they were part of a trade and i never really buy them otherwise. Problem is not speculators but the lack of options. When only like 5-6 are there in game its pretty much a sellers market.

As a disclosure as well, I did tell the buyer it was too much imo paying 15k for level 2 , not that it changed his mind.. lol

 

[Ace Flyster]

I see a big difference how much it will cost later. We can only count savings. You can freeze your money (which will provide you savings, ie profit) and then just bring them back. Looks like that you take into account in the calculation the full size of your bank deposit, which you have given to the bank to make a profit. After one year you get your profits, and found out that the deposit has decreased. You want this?
It looks like obvious nonsense.

At this rate UL mining amps can only drop in value the way MA is going with this game... while CLD prices continue to rise.. CLDs have much more upward mobility in my opinion.. Resell value of CLDs will be better than UL amps.. forever and always



This is true... and I did forget this. That still doesn't change the value much in my opinion.. and yeah I would be really hard pressed to offer more than TT+30k for a lvl5 amp right now..

Lvl 7 UL is still worth the TT+100-120k though, because they still have a 110% markup

Irrelevant, while there is a game there is always a resell price. People have ALWAYS argued, 'it takes this long to recoup the markup.' Since the amps have been in PE.

But only with unl mining amps.

Madness


Rgds

Ace

 

[Gewitter]

I have nothing to do with lvl 2 amps at all. I might have sold a couple but hardly ever made any profit on them as they were part of a trade and i never really buy them otherwise. Problem is not speculators but the lack of options. When only like 5-6 are there in game its pretty much a sellers market.

As a disclosure as well, I did tell the buyer it was too much imo paying 15k for level 2 , not that it changed his mind.. lol

Irrelevant, while there is a game there is always a resell price. People have ALWAYS argued, 'it takes this long to recoup the markup.' Since the amps have been in PE.

But only with unl mining amps.

Madness


Rgds

Ace

Ok. Everyone has an opinion, but opinion against the calculation worth nothing. I trust only to digits and facts. All other is coined for business and fraud

 

[Pokerpro]

As a disclosure as well, I did tell the buyer it was too much imo paying 15k for level 2 , not that it changed his mind.. lol

While trying to sell a Terminator for 200k more than its worth and level 7 amp for 40 or 50k more than its worth... You try to ruin other peoples sale prices?
Im not sure who sold the level 2, but I dont think you as a resseler should be trying to lower other peoples prices all the time.
Buy low, sell high and dont mind other people business