Petition to remove Explosive BPs (or change them) - Part 2

[slither]

Put me on that list, EP BP's take away from playing the actual game... It turned crafting in to (No I dont need to craft items anymore I'll just setup a EP BP for 5000 clicks and walk away.) Kills the economy for hunting mats and mining mats.

Chris Tasoner Labrie

So, in order for a crafter to play they MUST pay you markup on your loot. But in order for you to play you can buy everything from the tt. What a pack of selfish twats you guys are.

This thread should not be about removing the crafters ability to play at tt costs (as miners and hunters can) but about how MA can make the crafters want to buy the hunters/miners loot.

 

[OZtwo]

So, in order for a crafter to play they MUST pay you markup on your loot. But in order for you to play you can buy everything from the tt. What a pack of selfish twats you guys are.

This thread should not be about removing the crafters ability to play at tt costs (as miners and hunters can) but about how MA can make the crafters want to buy the hunters/miners loot.

EP have a fine line here. When you start crafting these items you stop being a crafter and turn into a gambler. You can justify it anyway you like but EP really have no use since most everyone who is crafting these items simply TT them at the end to try to get the ATH on the next batch.

 

[slither]

EP have a fine line here. When you start crafting these items you stop being a crafter and turn into a gambler. You can justify it anyway you like but EP really have no use since most everyone who is crafting these items simply TT them at the end to try to get the ATH on the next batch.

99% of items that are crafted are thrown into the TT. Most the time crafters are making things to gain skills and hunt for BPs.

 

[bigdaddy trim]

So, in order for a crafter to play they MUST pay you markup on your loot. But in order for you to play you can buy everything from the tt. What a pack of selfish twats you guys are.

This thread should not be about removing the crafters ability to play at tt costs (as miners and hunters can) but about how MA can make the crafters want to buy the hunters/miners loot.

This is one of biggest problems that the game has at moment. To many armours, guns, faps etc can be obtained via missions, upgrades, hunting etc.

 

[Coelacanth]

So, in order for a crafter to play they MUST pay you markup on your loot. But in order for you to play you can buy everything from the tt. What a pack of selfish twats you guys are.

Let me explain this very clearly, those of you supporting EP crafting just keep blowing smoke up our skirts to confuse the issue. Assuming the following are all beginners:

Hunters: Buy TT ammo, buy weapons, hunt naked, but weapons DECAY.

Miners: Buy TT bombs, buy mining tools, drop bombs, but mining tools DECAY.

Non-EP Crafters: Buy materials from hunters/miners at various markups depending on rarity in loot, craft items. Nothing decays, but lack of decay is mostly balanced due to markups of materials. Crafters decided what to craft based on markups of materials and finished product.

Everything in the above system was fair and balanced, though markets fluctuated depending on rarity.

EP Crafters: Buy materials from TT. Buy nothing from no-one. Craft. Nothing decays (in fact, BP values increase). No need to interact with any other players.

Why is it so difficult to understand the disconnect?

 

[mastermesh]

EP Crafters: Buy materials from TT. Buy nothing from no-one. Craft. Nothing decays (in fact, BP values increase). No need to interact with any other players.

In order to craft an explosive you need a blueprint. That has to be looted or purchased from someone... If you loot it yourself, you have to do a lot of crafting to get it. If you buy it you are paying a pretty nice markup to someone who did loot it...

so your theory/argument about "buy nothing from no-one" is defunct.

Also, you don't seem to be accounting for the crafting attempts that are not successful... Those non-successful attempts essentially are the crafting equivalent of decay in the other professions.

If MA wants there to be more decay involved, they'll just stop dropping the UL bps and put in L alternatives...

 

[OZtwo]

In order to craft an explosive you need a blueprint. That has to be looted or purchased from someone... If you loot it yourself, you have to do a lot of crafting to get it. If you buy it you are paying a pretty nice markup to someone who did loot it...

so your theory/argument about "buy nothing from no-one" is defunct.

Also, you don't seem to be accounting for the crafting attempts that are not successful... Those non-successful attempts essentially are the crafting equivalent of decay in the other professions.

So what you are saying here is that if one had to buy a ticket to get into a casino then playing the slots in that casino would then not be classified as gambling? (lol you know so many would use that to justify them not gambling** lol)

It is remarkable that so many will debate this issue to try and say that they are not gambling now that they moved to EP. Sorry but you are very much so since 1) you deposit; 2) you buy tokens from MA; 3) you play the slots.

** Almost forgot about our casinos here in Oregon. Yes we have them. How you may ask? What makes our Casinos not a casino? Yes we buy tickets to play them. lol

 

[ZPF]

In order to craft an explosive you need a blueprint. That has to be looted or purchased from someone... If you loot it yourself, you have to do a lot of crafting to get it. If you buy it you are paying a pretty nice markup to someone who did loot it...

so your theory/argument about "buy nothing from no-one" is defunct.

Also, you don't seem to be accounting for the crafting attempts that are not successful... Those non-successful attempts essentially are the crafting equivalent of decay in the other professions.

I'm 100% sure that those 100 QR Explosive IV BPs get passed around between soc mates all the time so that kind of pokes a hole in your "everyone must buy/loot a blueprint" logic.

Then again, I'm sure they lend out weapons/FAPs occasionally as well. But high level UL weapons/faps are far more expensive than a single BP.

 

[Coelacanth]

Also, you don't seem to be accounting for the crafting attempts that are not successful... Those non-successful attempts essentially are the crafting equivalent of decay in the other professions.

I equate failed attempts with "missed", "evade", mob no-loots or frag-loots and mining "no resource found". Yes, the fail rate is much higher in crafting and to a lesser extent with mining, but the value return on successful attempts is higher, too. So no, I don't equate failed attempts with decay.

 

[slither]

What difference does it make whether you pay for something via ammo or via decay? Both ways costs you tt without any markup.

Please don't tell me something about the fallacy that MA receives earnings from decay, we all know that's BS.

 

[Coelacanth]

Please don't tell me something about the fallacy that MA receives earnings from decay, we all know that's BS.

I didn't say anything about that. I'm merely pointing out the clear and obvious differences between EP crafting and all other professions, including non-EP crafting. Someone (mastermesh) brought decay into the discussion, saying he believed failed crafting attempts were equivalent to decay, which is erroneous. Failed attempts are the same in all professions, whether it's missed/evaded shots, no-loots, no resource found, or failed crafting. None of those have anything to do with decay.

And like I said in my previous post, every profession except EP crafting must somehow deal with decay, directly or indirectly...which is unfair.

 

[slither]

So tell me how spending 10ped in decay is any different to spending 10ped on ammo.

 

[Coelacanth]

So tell me how spending 10ped in decay is any different to spending 10ped on ammo.

Both occur at the same time when hunting or mining. You shoot or drop bombs, you not only have paid for the ammo, but also the decay to your gear. With EP crafting, you only need to pay for your "ammo"--the nanocubes.

 

[slither]

You didn't answer the question. And btw, they don't both occur at the same time when hunting with a sword. Simple answer is that there is no difference.

 

[hottygurl]

Original thread by Moonbiter: Petition to remove Explosive BPs (or change them)



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List of names updated ------ Total signed so far 233

233)Theo RedDragon Ferraris

Add me in as signed.

I think we should have the explosive projectiles usable for something in the end, theres a source but due to launcher eco sucking since theres no amps and the hit damage application being horrid.... nobody uses them.
We could really use a high damage single target 'shaped charge' series of launchers for tagging to get people to burn the projectiles more...

 

[ZPF]

Add me in as signed.

I think we should have the explosive projectiles usable for something in the end, theres a source but due to launcher eco sucking since theres no amps and the hit damage application being horrid.... nobody uses them.
We could really use a high damage single target 'shaped charge' series of launchers for tagging to get people to burn the projectiles more...

Make it create Shrapnel instead

 

[OZtwo]

You didn't answer the question. And btw, they don't both occur at the same time when hunting with a sword. Simple answer is that there is no difference.

She has answered it and for some reason you are fighting it? BTW, when you use a sword you get twice as much decay since you are getting hit more. And yes BTW, not all people use armor when using the sword. But BTW that is not the point here. BTW on average most people will hunt mobs with their armor -- FYI

 

[slither]

She didn't answer the question, all she said was the weapons do both and explosives do 1, that's irrelevant.

What is the difference between spending ped on ammo and replacing it from tt, and spending ped on decay and replacing it at tt? There is none.

 

[Me Really Never]

And your decay can be repaired at TT price.

so you say i can repair for example a 170% MU limited finder at tt price at the repair terminal? you gotta shwo me your tricks pls.

 

[slither]

FFS, you don't have to use L equipment.

 

[Me Really Never]

first of all: not everyone has he money to buy UL High End Gear which costs easily 10k to 100k Peds considering the EP4 BP costs like 700 peds now.
second of all: when you buy high end gear to compete on a level the EP4 does then you have invested the vast majority of your bankroll into equipment (also paying MU on a high level) but an EP4 crafter invests a very very very tiny amount of money to start the gambling. tell me please how you can get equipment for 700 peds and then only need to buy ammo / repair at repair terminal for tt price to kill mobs equal to 20 ped per kill (so around 5.5k hp mobs) or what finder you buy for 700 peds to only buy probes and then continuously gamble forever at a 20 ped per drop rate.
Oh, thats not possible you say? interesting.
it is a fact that EP4 crafting is not, not in any way, comparable to any other of the 3 professions (and yes, i exclude EP4 crafting from the crafting profession).
and another thing: when crafting normal stuff, you pretty much know your input value and you pretty much know your output value. also you decide, what you want to craft. in mining you cant just go out and set your finder to find gold only to get the MU u want. not like normal crafters can. but thats just an offtopic note.

edit: i think many of these problems could be solved, when they would remove limited weapons/armors from hunting loot, and make bps for these weapons and armors, using hunting and mining stuff both. when hunters are not self reliant anymore on looting the items they need, then crafters would be needed again. i still dont like the ep4 bp and a change would be good imo, even when its a small one like using nova or whatever, but you correct, that crafting needs to get attractive again. wiht removing limited stuff from hunting loot, crafters would get work, miners would be able to sell their ressources and hunters would lose the MU on limited gear at first but as hunting loot would be used for crafting the stuff they would gain MU on other stuff so it would balance out.
also you could change the max multiplier for EP4 to something like 500. thats a quite common one to even out a few losses and its still a cheap income for residue. but its not useful for gambling anymore so they would need to purchase stuff from others to gamble just like miners need to do.
thats my 2 pec on the problem.

 

[mastermesh]

first of all: not everyone has he money to buy UL High End Gear which costs easily 10k to 100k Peds considering the EP4 BP costs like 700 peds now.

Now... many years ago what is considered to be uber hunting gear was sold for a lot less than it is now... if the UL version of the BP stops dropping, and MA goes to only L dropping mainly going forward, that will change over time I suspect.

(so around 5.5k hp mobs)

let the mob regenerate a few times so you up it's potential payout. May not get to the level you want, but might give bigger loot per mob (assuming it doesn't no loot on you)

 

[Zenzile]

Can someone explain this to me? I left a little after explosive bps were added.

Why does every crafter seem to do this shit and only this shit. Its 0 mu input right? But mu output cant be too good either. So is every crafter just a slot machine gamber now or are some crafters profitting off of these explosive bps.

 

[Me Really Never]

Can someone explain this to me? I left a little after explosive bps were added.

Why does every crafter seem to do this shit and only this shit. Its 0 mu input right? But mu output cant be too good either. So is every crafter just a slot machine gamber now or are some crafters profitting off of these explosive bps.

yeah u got it right. crafting is now not a profession of deep calculations you do to maximize ur profit. crafting now is entropia casino slot mashine.

 

[Pogny]

Give me a button that instantly kill mob for the peds value of their HP or remove the BPs thats all.


If system sont change :

- all people will go to the slot machine

- PC will be kicked out of the EU because gambling game need to be declared and taxed.


add me : Pogny oOPognyOo oOPognyOo

 

[ZPF]

Minimum age to play EU is 13 years old.

13 year olds should not have access to internet gambling!

Case closed!

 

[Black Widow iK]

You can throw me on that list... 180k pedder yesterday, and I check the ATH list, its all EP now.. what a joke now.

Black Widow Spider iK

Since April 2004

 

[slither]

yeah u got it right. crafting is now not a profession of deep calculations you do to maximize ur profit. crafting now is entropia casino slot mashine.

Me, Auk, Buzz, Gandalf, Kikki, NZR You won't find many explosive globals from sensible crafters.

And as for killing a 20ped mob with a single shot, how many of you guys would do that if the loot was 100% universal ammo?

 

[ZPF]

And as for killing a 20ped mob with a single shot, how many of you guys would do that if the loot was 100% universal ammo?

First of all that's not a fair comparison since Uni ammo can't be TT'd like all crafting loot can.

For a chance at 180k PED worth of TT-able ammo, I know many would be tempted to fire a few shots

Plus you'd be gaining immense skills at TT cost in the process.

 

[combo22]

Can someone explain this to me? I left a little after explosive bps were added.

Why does every crafter seem to do this shit and only this shit. Its 0 mu input right? But mu output cant be too good either. So is every crafter just a slot machine gamber now or are some crafters profitting off of these explosive bps.

yeah u got it right. crafting is now not a profession of deep calculations you do to maximize ur profit. crafting now is entropia casino slot mashine.

Crafting was always a gambling most of the time, 80-90% of the items crafted went to TT.
Before the EP the gamblers were undercutting the real crafters and sold items under production cost, now the gamblers make cheap metal residue(most of the time losing peds), and crafters can sell cheap crafted goods.
The real problem is that the demand for the crafted items is very low, and EP has nothing to do with that.

EP just give the chance to skill up at TT cost, as you can do in other professions.
There is no point to compare EP crafting with mining and hunting, it's a different thing, in mining and hunting you can't really make such a big turnover but you have a much bigger chance to get markup.
EP crafting gives you a very tiny change to get markup.
If you compare mining with hunting you'll also see that a miner needs next to none equipment and can have a very big turnover compared with a hunter using TT equipment only.
The problem is that people can't accept that their "hard" gathered resources, obtained mostly with probes from TT doesn't have markup, and are demanding EP gamblers to pay markup to be able to gamble.

If you really want a real crafting system, ask MA to remove Condition crafting and TT ing of the produced items, that way you'll have a real crafting system, only items that will be actually used will be crafted, but be prepared to sell most of your resources at 101%, top.