Point to evolve in hunting skills and equipment

[Acar]

you are describing the loot variations using a relation between cost to kill and loot
shouldn't it be described as a relation beween damage given and loot ?

example:
- damaged 100% of hp, got 100% of loot (no regen)
- damaged 150% of hp, got 150% of loot
- damaged 200% of hp, got 200% of loot
- damaged 300% of hp, got 250% of loot (here the relation damage/loot is broken!!)

this would satisfy the ma words and some of the regen experiments done by players

yes and this means also, that the loot is based on damaged HP and not at cost to kill, you will get the same loot if you invest 2 ped (for example p5a) or 1,8 ped (for example maxed imk2) at 100% HP. This is my experience.

i am sry, i wrote 2 ped 4 ped 6 ped, this meant only peds i needed to kill the mob (tt ammo, tt weapon decay and tt amp costs) i dont calculate any other costs into the return rate.

 

[Dan59]

If we hold on 90% theory then i think that price paid to MA for their service vary too much .

You pay 10% for MA service to be able to kill snable.
You pay also 10% for MA service to be able to kill, levi, ara, emomon, dasp... but here those 10% is a lot.
Too much for same service.
And shooting with eco gun? You cant shoot eco with imk2 except if you looted it, if not you start with big looses for entire TT+MU what you paid for gun .

 

[Acar]

If we hold on 90% theory then i think that price paid to MA for their service vary too much .

You pay 10% for MA service to be able to kill snable.
You pay also 10% for MA service to be able to kill, levi, ara, emomon, dasp... but here those 10% is a lot.
Too much for same service.
And shooting with eco gun? You cant shoot eco with imk2 except if you looted it, if not you start with big looses for entire TT+MU what you paid for gun .

Hi Dan,

i think there is a difference between investment with some risks or loose.

 

[Raven Lunchbox]

-So what you're saying is.. It doesn't matter which weapon you use on a mob as long as you keep within "a regen ratio", your extra damage you do is compensated

-It doesnt matter if you take armour decay, as long as you keep within an "armour decay ratio", your armour damage is compensated.

If that;s what your saying then Girts is 100% right. Why build up skills to be able to use the best eco weapon possible.
If you hunt naked and without fap with the best eco weapon ingame, your results are the same compared to wearing big armour and a big gun that isn't so eco.

buying Mod merc tt +1000

Yes basically thats how it seems and the reasoning for this thread if im not mistaken.

 

[Supertramp]

yes and this means also, that the loot is based on damaged HP and not at cost to kill, you will get the same loot if you invest 2 ped (for example p5a) or 1,8 ped (for example maxed imk2) at 100% HP. This is my experience.

i am sry, i wrote 2 ped 4 ped 6 ped, this meant only peds i needed to kill the mob (tt ammo, tt weapon decay and tt amp costs) i dont calculate any other costs into the return rate.

it makes sense -as mindark wrote in their dev note- that the effectiveness of the weapon, and thus the kill to cost, is to be taken into account

about the bold part: do you mean "per damaged hp" or "per damaged hp of this animal" (race and maturity)?
considering that some animals are harder to kill due to specific or high damage, hit rate, success rate, all these other variables which are behind the 4 in "L4 Foul Young"

 

[Acar]

it makes sense -as mindark wrote in their dev note- that the effectiveness of the weapon, and thus the kill to cost, is to be taken into account

about the bold part: do you mean "per damaged hp" or "per damaged hp of this animal" (race and maturity)?
considering that some animals are harder to kill due to specific or high damage, hit rate, success rate, all these other variables which are behind the 4 in "L4 Foul Young"

i dont have any stats for other maturities or more dmg mobs, but more dmg ( old school mobs like malcruentor) and higher maturity will influence the droprate of MU-Items like better Oil and other stuff.

 

[Supertramp]

i dont have any stats for other maturities or more dmg mobs, but more dmg ( old school mobs like malcruentor) and higher maturity will influence the droprate of MU-Items like better Oil and other stuff.

indeed, gibnibs dont loot much items

so, to break even or profit i would need to:
- have enough skills to be able to maximize the most efficient weapon (improved a-3 justifier)
- buy the most efficient equipement (above weapon)
- avoid contact with animals to have no defending cost (armor and medikit) and keep the cost to kill to "almost perfect"
- not worry about regenration as long as its reasonable

what is cost for such setup?



edit: sorry to the topic owner, its off topic but its bumping...

 

[Mordrell]

Here is my test on regening of mobs: <click>
Tests consits of killing 100 caraboks "fast" (no regen), shooting them once with avg dmg 6 and letting them regen, shooting them 4 times and letting them regen and also overkill shoot.
Loot was larger directly proportional to actuall hp dealt (so overkill is most likely wasted).

It proves that if you let mob regen youwill get more "common loot" than if you do not it let regen at all.

So basicly your whole above statemant, about stating that cost of killing a mob at 2ped is something like a "border", is invalid.

Also:
from my experience if you use weapon that has low dmg/pec (maxed sib) you will get more in "common loots" than using weapon with high dmg/pec. Have not done exact tests but its visible.


I am not sure about number and/or size of "minis" because it is damn hard to actually prove here something (because there is always some sceptical guy who will say "its luck").

Face it:
loot from mob will be defined mostly on exactly "how" you will kill it. Its against logic but it is true.

Falagor

I have witnessed this myself many times too, especially on large high regen mobs... getting crit killed twice by a riptor stalker I kinda expect a global or at least mini.

 

[Dan59]

Hi Dan,

i think there is a difference between investment with some risks or loose.

Agree, i told it bad. Its investment with some risks wich are unknown until you sell it on free market
For time in between you have certain amount of dead capital wich lie locked on it and appart risks that cost too.

 

[Acar]

indeed, gibnibs dont loot much items

so, to break even or profit i would need to:
- have enough skills to be able to maximize the most efficient weapon (improved a-3 justifier)
- buy the most efficient equipement (above weapon)
- avoid contact with animals to have no defending cost (armor and medikit) and keep the cost to kill to "almost perfect"
- not worry about regenration as long as its reasonable

what is cost for such setup?



edit: sorry to the topic owner, its off topic but its bumping...

you dont need a maxed imk2 to be in profit (the new L guns have really good eco with less MU), a good way is a permanent team (2-4 players with good eco L equip) and mobs that will loot a bit MU, maybe slow mobs with longrange weapons are not bad. I think 90% of the solo hunters, hunt to big (only my opinion). More HP = more casino style, without the best eco. And best eco means also that you know the loot phases, have a break when loot is bad and start 10-15 minutes later again or slower the killspeed, this will save often a lot of peds. There are enough options to improve the eco. A second profession, like pilot, trader, healer or something else will help through the bad phases like this modified thing atm. ^^

Agree, i told it bad. Its investment with some risks wich are unknown until you sell it on free market
For time in between you have certain amount of dead capital wich lie locked on it and appart risks that cost too.

you are right, the capital is locked, but the difference is in using the gun, if you spend 2 ped for a mob (maybe midlvl feffoids) with p5a and 1,8 ped with imk2 and you kill 1000 mobs a day (i think if you invest this money you want to play a bit more), in one year you will save ~70k peds. imk2 is no high dps gun, so really uneco for big mobs, maybe team 2x imk2 ^^

 

[Profit]

You are right, the loot will increase proportional. But there is a HP point where this will be unproportional (hope you understand my english^^)

This coupled with Falagor's comment, is essentially what we all have observed and what all tests seem to corroborate.
Dane has obviously ducked out from the conversation now... funny because he commented how he was man enough to admit he was wrong. Guess that was just some more bs.

 

[Dane]

Actually, I was sleeping. After reading the posts, its essentially what I was explaining. Glad you're up to speed now.

 

[Profit]

Actually, I was sleeping. After reading the posts, its essentially what I was explaining. Glad you're up to speed now.

I still don't think you have any idea what you're talking about. But whatever.
Trolls.
God I hate trolls.

 

[Dane]

Troll.
God I hate trolls.

3600 posts of hatred. My god man, love yourself!

 

[Xing Nu]

I did not see ANY comment from MA that any one is supposed to make money from Entropia.
Maxed weapons only give you ONE think they will perform as 10/10
Better weapons like MM only give ONE think reduce cost in game play
If you want to make money in Entropia you can do that ONLY ONE way trading/business
if you don't understand that after this many years what else I can say to help.
Whoever claims (over period of 5/10 years in Entropia that he profited from hunting is lier)!
Star peds that he withdraws comes from trading!
There is reason high level avatars quit after they get to lvl 100 they all hope whatever you ask for that the time invested in the skilling pays off once they realize they are wrong they just quit.
Who ever think he/she will make money in Entropia from hunting/crafting/mining is total idiot.
Now if there is side activity like CLD/trading/owning property you can eventually profit but it won't be from MA it will be from another avatar money.
Hope I helped you open your eyes.

PS. Just to add point on crafting in EU:
You wont profit from the global hofs but you may profit from the MU on the item you craft which get us to the point not profit from MA but from the player you sell the item too.

 

[Etopia]

I did not see ANY comment from MA that any one is supposed to make money from Entropia.

you didnt see old MA advert ...

If you want to make money in Entropia you can do that ONLY ONE way trading/business

no , several player did make money from hunting , mining , crafting owning LA...

Whoever claims (over period of 5/10 years in Entropia that he profited from hunting is lier)!

I know several player who did profit from hunting...Some well know are Pham , stoikow,striker....You can also add all bot hunter , simply because , if they didnt make money out of it , why they would have bot hunting , and why MA would have ban them ?after all , MA almost never banned player for cheating , only when they was losing money on the cheat...

There is reason high level avatars quit after they get to lvl 100 they all hope whatever you ask for that the time invested in the skilling pays off once they realize they are wrong they just quit.

No many of them did quit because in past they could profit from game , or at least play for free , but , since bot hunter and that MA changed a lot loot system , they had to deposit , and quite a lot...
plus some was in need of money IRL...

Who ever think he/she will make money in Entropia from hunting/crafting/mining is total idiot.

IMHO you are the total idiot , there is still several people who do make money playing , but it is not in such scale like in past....Fact is , i did it...


and yes , nowday its a lot more hard than in past to profit in this game from basic activities (hunt mine craft),price of many item went down , there is less item in loot , since everyone now make around 90% TT , its very hard to be the one that make over 100% tt and so on.

 

[Mordrell]

I did not see ANY comment from MA that any one is supposed to make money from Entropia.
Maxed weapons only give you ONE think they will perform as 10/10
Better weapons like MM only give ONE think reduce cost in game play
If you want to make money in Entropia you can do that ONLY ONE way trading/business
if you don't understand that after this many years what else I can say to help.
Whoever claims (over period of 5/10 years in Entropia that he profited from hunting is lier)!
Star peds that he withdraws comes from trading!
There is reason high level avatars quit after they get to lvl 100 they all hope whatever you ask for that the time invested in the skilling pays off once they realize they are wrong they just quit.
Who ever think he/she will make money in Entropia from hunting/crafting/mining is total idiot.
Now if there is side activity like CLD/trading/owning property you can eventually profit but it won't be from MA it will be from another avatar money.
Hope I helped you open your eyes.

PS. Just to add point on crafting in EU:
You wont profit from the global hofs but you may profit from the MU on the item you craft which get us to the point not profit from MA but from the player you sell the item too.

I think with some luck you can profit hunting, if you are an idiot grinding 0% mu mobs like trox or levi then no. Mining you can easily profit unless you are ath chaser on FOMA or Hell.

At the same time expecting to make money here is lunacy... that does not mean you cant.

The biggest mistake I see ppl making is grinding one mob to complete a mission, even though they are losing their ass off. In the past before missions we used to target mobs that were fun or gave us good loot or chance for items... now ppl just mindlessly grind their no mu crap to get a few tt skills.

 

[Viperstrike]

I still don't think you have any idea what you're talking about. But whatever.
Trolls.
God I hate trolls.

Don't be too hard on the guy, he will settle down eventually, he is just a newbie to the discussion.

Granted he confuses the fooglywoo out of me too at times

 

[Xpl0jd]

Whoever claims (over period of 5/10 years in Entropia that he profited from hunting is lier)!

I did make money from hunting untill they changed loot system and added no loot around late 2005!

 

[M Rufen Power]

what is cost for such setup?

Let's see here, mod fap 140-150k, imk2 80-90 k, a204 8500-9500, mod merc 140-160, not to mention something like AFF8k is 15-20k. About 430k ped not to mention the skill req to use em maxed.

 

[Jennson]

Let's see here, mod fap 140-150k, imk2 80-90 k, a204 8500-9500, mod merc 140-160, not to mention something like AFF8k is 15-20k. About 430k ped not to mention the skill req to use em maxed.

Well at least you save in paramedic skills

 

[LaraD]

I did not see ANY comment from MA that any one is supposed to make money from Entropia.
Maxed weapons only give you ONE think they will perform as 10/10
Better weapons like MM only give ONE think reduce cost in game play
If you want to make money in Entropia you can do that ONLY ONE way trading/business
if you don't understand that after this many years what else I can say to help.
Whoever claims (over period of 5/10 years in Entropia that he profited from hunting is lier)!
Star peds that he withdraws comes from trading!
There is reason high level avatars quit after they get to lvl 100 they all hope whatever you ask for that the time invested in the skilling pays off once they realize they are wrong they just quit.
Who ever think he/she will make money in Entropia from hunting/crafting/mining is total idiot.
Now if there is side activity like CLD/trading/owning property you can eventually profit but it won't be from MA it will be from another avatar money.
Hope I helped you open your eyes.

There are many ppl who profited from EU by crafting/mining/hunting. I myself did so, too. Today it is probably still possible but not in the scale of the old days. I simply gave up trying to profit from EU, because it became tedious and more like a second job.

Back in the old days loot pattern existed which could be exploited very easily. I don't know if they still exist, because I play too little to be able to reckognize them.

But I still play for free and make enough profit to afford a life in the Entropian middle class.

 

[Fifth]

i'm with u girtsn on this one!

can't comment on different returns for different avas, but:

higher skills -> more powerful gear -> higher turnover​

there's nothing u can do about that: the turnover will increase by a magnitude
if the return % stays the same, the cost to play inevitably goes through the roof.

for an Average Joe (not some highly theoretical superman) the only solution is to pay more or play less... and this is wrong.

i do believe on higher levels u should be able to get a bigger return % than lower/medium level.
no guaranteed TT profit ofc, just a slightly higher return % - and only from there u should start looking for ways to minimize the losses/increase the profits.

no, this is not too much to ask
no, this is not gonna break the balance

yes, MA has to address this sooner or later
yes, they will totally mess things up before they'll get it done, like usual... but it has to be fixed

There are many ppl who profited from EU by crafting/mining/hunting. I myself did so, too. Today it is probably still possible but not in the scale of the old days. I simply gave up trying to profit from EU, because it became tedious and more like a second job.

Back in the old days loot pattern existed which could be exploited very easily. I don't know if they still exist, because I play too little to be able to reckognize them.

But I still play for free and make enough profit to afford a life in the Entropian middle class.

yes it's possible, n yes - it's harder and harder because MA sees it as a leak that should be closed asap.

should they change this? should they leave those opportunities open forever?
neah, that's fine, that's the rules of the game - we're always trying to find ways to profit and MA will always try to shut em down.




two loosely related comments:

everybody's speaking about "taxed areas" like it's a proven fact your return will be smaller there.
where do people take this idea? simply because there's a message?
never seen any proof for that and i don't believe it just because there's some message.

most people don't consider skills as part of return but i believe the skills are calculated in (with a value different from their TT, which is zero).​

 

[Pham]

Whoever claims (over period of 5/10 years in Entropia that he profited from hunting is lier)!

I profited MUCH from hunting (although profits were only from markups) from late 2004 up until maybe second half of 2006, when I started to withdraw, sound bitter to MA on this forum (then I started to not get those globals to break even/lose little). Before imp m2870 drop from snables and items drop nerf that happened next there were great possibilities for anyone to gear up and sell extra and profit. Also, i really hate the (L) (and SIB), i think that was that have broken economics of hunting. Trash mobs hunters may think different though.
I can just say, that without taking into account increase of markup on my imp mk2 and mod fap i've made 1M ped between those dates.
But the times are different now.

 

[Profit]

Xing Nu doesn't know, ignore!

 

[Leona]

higher skills -> more powerful gear -> higher turnover​

there's nothing u can do about that: the turnover will increase by a magnitude
if the return % stays the same, the cost to play inevitably goes through the roof.

Was my goal years ago to skill up and have high turnover to see how all that can work out. Turns out you just need to be as careful as any low level / mid level player to do ok.

There is no god mode in EU. You ain't entitled to anything just because of high skills, turnover and good gear. Most people who skip the low level / mid level phase pay an higher fee to learn that tho, thats true.

 

[Naithen]

I agree and support this post!

 

[Profit]

So $50k USD outlay and no real ROI.
Seems reasonable...
LOL

 

[Dane]

So $50k USD outlay and no real ROI.
Seems reasonable...
LOL

^ The most intelligent thing you've ever typed, ever.





-_- : Is this how you want me?
MA : No, just lean over the desk please... Yeaa... There you go.
*uuuuhhhhhh squish*
-_- : That was unpleasant. Same time tomorrow?
MA : You're paying...

 

[RickEngland]

I can just say, that without taking into account increase of markup on my imp mk2 and mod fap i've made 1M ped between those dates.

But the times are different now.

Turned over 1 million peds, or made 1 million peds profit? In either case big gratz.

I have never made money in EU, always had to deposit to play (other than making peds on CLD at the time). That said i still believe that more skill does give you more return, or at least allows you the opportunity to hit more hofs.

There needs to be reward I think for skilling, and I'm sure this is a built in feature. In fact my worse time in EU was probably 2006 - 2008 when deposits would not last a few days on very low skills, it's a miracle I came out the other side and still here. However the last two years seem to be my best so far in game, I still have to deposit, but my peds do appear to last much longer.

If having more skills means less deposits, then I can live with that.

If the game gets more expensive with more skills, then at some point I can see myself saying enough is enough.

I'm enjoying the new nanochips for skilling they seem to level the playing field a bit. I still try to view the world in mug-half-full-mode, rather than half empty, so I still have much hope for EU.

Stick to a budget, and hope it last until the next planned depo. That's my strategy. Then it's win-win, MA get paid, and hopfully they pay us back with some quality fun.

Maybe in the future if we have millions of players, then we can reap some better rewards, as the EU mascots. So come on future "moon" owners, pull your figures out and recruit.

Rick.