Punished for having an amp

[Xen]

But it's a 101 amp, it cant be compared to a Vivo UR225 or something. it's a BASIC model, and lvl 13-14 prospector should definitely be enough to max that out. more likely comparable with the Vivo T10 which is maxed at lvl 8. higher req to max than the tt stuff perhaps but it's still a basic model and should require skills thereafter. the basic L faps and weapons are maxed waay before u hit lvl 12 sniper / paramedic. why would basic stuff require a higher lvl in a much slower profession?

I don't think the slowness of the profession has much to do with it, especially when comparing it to paramedic which is dreadfully slow also. But I tend to agree that even thinking of 1-100 skill levels, at level 13+ there should be no problem with a 101 amp... you would think. Perhaps it is the combination of the finder and amp? I didn't really have this problem with 101's, with 103's it was definitely noticeable though.

But I am not opposed to the possibility that there is some penalty for "raising the stakes" by using amps.

 

[Quint]

Think this just demonstrates that amp has different resource pool than unamped ... I dont think that an amp could decrease your search depth ... So while using an amp seems like mining on another level taking it off might change the resource pool where u mine Stupid but seems true ...

Make a test (if u can): drop a bomb in the same area unamped then put an 101 then 102 and 103 and see what happends

I'm thinking the same as NastyCenturion. Amps could mean another dimension (next to X, Y, depth, finder,...), so someone without amp has a certain set of claims he CAN find and another person using an amp will have a completely different set of potential finds. The average potential find of person 2 will be bigger than the avg potential find of person 1 ofcourse.

This could be tested as stated in the quote above, or it can be done by 2 different ava's. Ava1 should drop bombs unamped, shortly followed by ava2 who drops bombs amped on exactly the same coords as ava1. They have to use the same finders and must have more or less the same skills of course. If ava2 still finds a "normal" number of claims, the amp-dimension theory might be correct. As with any theory on mining, we'll never know for sure.

But a large number of drops is (as always) required before we can make any judgements, and I for example am not prepared to be ava2 in this experiment

PS : Personnally I haven't noticed any negative effect on my mining results since I'm using amps. In fact, I will never mine unamped again I do notice a lower hit rate when using for example 103 amps, which makes me believe I am not skilled enough to use these efficiently.

 

[Alice]

not that i ever used amps, but

i still think that amps are some kinda of "key to change layer"

say, you have a kind of layer for each amp

without, say you have at coordinate point x a poor, and y a rich

with 101 you have at x nothing, and at y a poor


that is what i think about it
it might increase the tt of the finds, but it doesnt mean necesserily that you had found something lower at the same spot without amp
or that if you had found a say 1k ped lyst deposit without amp had found a 2k with amp


besides, anyone want to guess why MA removed the "cancel claim" function and implemented "insta claim"?

to make it easier for players, or to avoid some cross testing with amps ?
just a thought

 

[Chilix]

Think this just demonstrates that amp has different resource pool than unamped ... I dont think that an amp could decrease your search depth ... So while using an amp seems like mining on another level taking it off might change the resource pool where u mine Stupid but seems true ...

Make a test (if u can): drop a bomb in the same area unamped then put an 101 then 102 and 103 and see what happends

i have burned hundreds of 103-104 and some 105 and i tottally agree with you that maybe different pools
i always mine with amps mainly 103 as the % markup is lower than the ores i mine, so in the long run after ks of bombs its slighter better than without amps

 

[Solaris]

... so in the long run after ks of bombs its slighter better than without amps

There's the key answer to all the troubles... "In the long run".

It doesnt really matter if you go with or without amps. In the long run the outcome will be pretty much the same as what you use.

I belong to the fraction of "unique account" believers
..which basically means that all players have an account within MA, giving us all individual loot back according to how much we spend (I said spend! - not deposit!)

Go with amps and you will eventually find this much...

Go without amps, and you will eventually find that much...

So to answer CUGA's frustration, then I know exactly what he's talking about (seen it myself too), but the MAtrix cant tell if you just bombed in same location amped or not. It will only calculate how much you are supposed to return "...in the long run".

 

[Thorrn]

I have had my best finds unamped as well, only 1 global amped. 5 unamped and 1 hoff unamped.

I wonder if this is the reason they brought in the Light versions of the 101, 102,,not sure but I think there maybe a Light 103, but I dont recall. The Lights supposedly have the same efficiency, but who the hell knows what MA hides in their products.

Try a 101 Light, and see if things get better. Just a thought.

I would do it myself but I think Im giving up on mining for a longgggggg longgggggg longggggggg time.

And not all that sure about the rest of EU either.

< 3 months no globals, 6 cash deposits since...I was mining exclusively, and only killing mobs to clear a path, and that used to get me some decent stuff and some globals here and there. Last 3 months I havent even had one single mob loot over 3 ped.

And what little bit of luck I did have mining, just was enough to keep me mining. I have already max'd out 3 finders higher than the 211, and just cant afford to move up. ZU 20 + 394%, ZU 25 +550%, 105 +450 ped.

 

[Thorrn]

which basically means that all players have an account within MA, giving us all individual loot back according to how much we spend (I said spend! - not deposit!)

.. but the MAtrix cant tell if you just bombed in same location amped or not. .

How much is spent corelates 99% of the time to how much you deposited, unless you are in the 1% that got lucky.

If the matrix cant tell if I bombed the same location amp'd as opposed to unamped, then it cant tell if I bombed the same location twice unamped. Therefore, I could theoretically stand still and bomb the same location and get the same results as I would moving around. No?

 

[sndlwood]

Now this can't be right, I think this deserves a support case. If this is not a bug but a feature I think MA is threading a dangerous ground as they are deliberately punishing people for having amps…

This is quite an accusation, but then later you said that you didn’t send a support case. If you suspect that it might be a bug then why don’t you send a support case about it? If however there is no bug and you think the amp is somehow limiting your claim results then I suggest it has to do with your skill level. There is no "punishment” at all, that’s like saying someone with a 2.5/10 hit ratio is being punished with poor hit results over someone with a 10/10 hit ratio.

 

[Crone]

Crone thought it was common knowledge that with amp you find less but bigger claims?

 

[Thorrn]

Well if it is an accusation, and his ability to use this item does infact say 100%, well then thats MA not being truthful and the accusation in my mind is warranted. And yes I do think he should send in a support case.

 

[Pe-nerd]

We don´t have to guess what exactly is the reason of finding less with an amp. In my opinion with an amp you should find more claims and more mining material each claim otherwise what is the use for an Amp. Now it is making your finder turn into a mobile slotmachine.

Skills are made less important each and every VU, you get more globals and hofs but less outcome from each claim or loot. Swirlies and hoffing makes people stick around longer and spend more inside the EU.

 

[Thorrn]

I wonder if MA instituted insta claims to cover something up?
Because there really isnt a way to test this theory one way or another now. Not sure if there really was a way before either.
Situation one
1) If there was no insta claim, we could have tested to see if one person amp'd and a second person unamp'd who found the same claim, if its registered as one size for both people. One could think the amp'd user would see it bigger, than the unamped user.

Situation two
2) The server would have picked the person whose first request the system received and that would have been the size of the claim.

I wonder which one was right before.

MA just NEEDS to give us more information about ALOT more with things in this game. Im not saying they need to disclose absolutely everything, but come on. Im paying to play this game, (and even more than normal subscription fees than for other games)I have a right to know way more than they are telling us, instead of being so hush hush, so they make more money having us all chase our tails to just get that much better.

But I guess that is what I expect from a game where one can buy there way to anything close to the top, IE. first day noob, buys up monster skill chips, end of first day, Uber.

Sad, soooo Sad

 

[Shackleton]

I wonder if MA instituted insta claims to cover something up?
Because there really isnt a way to test this theory one way or another now. Not sure if there really was a way before either.
Situation one
1) If there was no insta claim, we could have tested to see if one person amp'd and a second person unamp'd who found the same claim, if its registered as one size for both people. One could think the amp'd user would see it bigger, than the unamped user.

Situation two
2) The server would have picked the person whose first request the system received and that would have been the size of the claim.

I wonder which one was right before.

MA just NEEDS to give us more information about ALOT more with things in this game. Im not saying they need to disclose absolutely everything, but come on. Im paying to play this game, (and even more than normal subscription fees than for other games)I have a right to know way more than they are telling us, instead of being so hush hush, so they make more money having us all chase our tails to just get that much better.

But I guess that is what I expect from a game where one can buy there way to anything close to the top, IE. first day noob, buys up monster skill chips, end of first day, Uber.

Sad, soooo Sad

Well, i think you are very paranoid for a start and maybe you should think about WHY it is you are paying a lot of money to play this game rather than simply blaming MA for it . But anyway, before insta-claim was brought in the size of the find was that generated by the player. If you found a claim unamped, then attached an OA109 and dropped another bomb it would be the same claim detected.

Also I found this

As to the comment once again on decreased find rate with amps. The problem here is not that the amp changes focus nor is it that the amp works better at depth etc. The issue here is that people are afraid to use more than one. I have taken out 10 OA-103's at a time with 560 bombs. That is correct roughly 2200 PED mining run and I can attest to the fact that the find rate for me over longer time is exactly the same with and without an amp (well close enough to be considered exact). If people would take out more than one amp and not "hope for the big one" they would find that this is the case. The problem is they have to "muster up the guts" to even try one let alone 10 amps on one run. If you do not believe that I do or have done this Buzz may be willing to verify my purchase of amps from him in a lot of 30 for one trip.

which kind of says what I did before but it is worth repeating

 

[Fjolla]

I don't think the slowness of the profession has much to do with it, especially when comparing it to paramedic which is dreadfully slow also. But I tend to agree that even thinking of 1-100 skill levels, at level 13+ there should be no problem with a 101 amp... you would think. Perhaps it is the combination of the finder and amp? I didn't really have this problem with 101's, with 103's it was definitely noticeable though.

But I am not opposed to the possibility that there is some penalty for "raising the stakes" by using amps.

yeah my tt return with oa101's and unamped tend to be in the same %ish range so maybe i have them maxed out. but i find it very odd that some deposits would be hidden from me when amped and detectable when unamped ? afaik the only purpose of the amp is to enlarge the claims by a certain % and not have effect on the detection. maybe there is different deposits out there, one kind only detectable with 101amp, one with 102amp, one unamped and so on. so the only thing an amp would do is to grant u access to the bigger deposits. and we have another amp theory

 

[sndlwood]

Well if it is an accusation, and his ability to use this item does infact say 100%, well then thats MA not being truthful and the accusation in my mind is warranted. And yes I do think he should send in a support case.

I don’t doubt that the miners ability to use the amp is 100%, what I do doubt is that his equipment, no matter how “maxed out” he might be will react with the expected results all the time based on his over all mining skills.

The accusation being made is that MA purposely rigs the system to prevent miners from finding a claim with an amp in order keep players from getting greater than expected claim sizes and though there seem to been a few examples of this possibly occurring and a hole list of miners swearing off amps forever.

The fact remains that amps do increase claim sizes and to mine without using them risks the possibility that you will hit a HoF sized claim and end up with 600 peds instead of 1200 peds in your pocket.

 

[Optima]

I wonder if MA instituted insta claims to cover something up?
Because there really isnt a way to test this theory one way or another now. Not sure if there really was a way before either.
Situation one
1) If there was no insta claim, we could have tested to see if one person amp'd and a second person unamp'd who found the same claim, if its registered as one size for both people. One could think the amp'd user would see it bigger, than the unamped user.

Without getting into the whole "amps work like this and that" discussion (since im no hardcore miner, especially not lately so im staying out of that one lol) That HAS been tested like Shackleton says... People ran around dropping unamped bombs, found something then either:
Cancelled the find attached an amp and dropped again
Had a friend drop an amped bomb ontop of the find they just got
etcetc lots of tests

Each time conclusive result, if something has already been found it doesnt matter what you "drop" it would find the same size and same mineral. And thats pretty f*cking lucky since the exploitationpossibilites if you could find an lets say XIII on cnd, then ask your "m8" to drop by with an 109 amped finder and get superubers each time?... Kinda obvious but had to say it

Again i dont know if MA changed something but off course it has to be different systems.... Would be too easy to take advantage of otherwise...

 

[Thorrn]

Well, i think you are very paranoid for a start and maybe you should think about WHY it is you are paying a lot of money to play this game rather than simply blaming MA for it . But anyway, before insta-claim was brought in the size of the find was that generated by the player. If you found a claim unamped, then attached an OA109 and dropped another bomb it would be the same claim detected.

Also I found this

which kind of says what I did before but it is worth repeating

Im saying, if I PAY ANYTHING for a game, subscription fee's monthly for most online games is what $20 / month, I better get more information than zilch from the designers as to what does what, and how something works.

I wasnt talking about 2 different bombs dropped at different times, I was talking about 2 different players one amped the other not, at the same time finding the same claim, one amp'd and the other not. And that is what I was getting at with point #2, I am not sure which request the server would have received first, as surely the server wouldnt take both at the exact time micro second.

 

[ruskea]

i once had this one thing.. was in cnd had 102 and 101 amp used the 102 like 60 bomb with no find got angry decided to try 101 for awhile and first drop was a Great find.. i Laughed alot... and i did have skill alot and 212 finder :/

 

[ruskea]

Without getting into the whole "amps work like this and that" discussion (since im no hardcore miner, especially not lately so im staying out of that one lol) That HAS been tested like Shackleton says... People ran around dropping unamped bombs, found something then either:
Cancelled the find attached an amp and dropped again
Had a friend drop an amped bomb ontop of the find they just got
etcetc lots of tests

Each time conclusive result, if something has already been found it doesnt matter what you "drop" it would find the same size and same mineral. And thats pretty f*cking lucky since the exploitationpossibilites if you could find an lets say XIII on cnd, then ask your "m8" to drop by with an 109 amped finder and get superubers each time?... Kinda obvious but had to say it

Again i dont know if MA changed something but off course it has to be different systems.... Would be too easy to take advantage of otherwise...

some time ago i was at work and started thinking about that and called my bro that we should test it out :/ had 103 amp and my bro was bombing non ampped he found Great did cancel it i dropped and found only the great my bro found :/ only thing changed was that my bros finder said the size and mine was unknown

 

[MG Mighty]

Well if it is an accusation, and his ability to use this item does infact say 100%, well then thats MA not being truthful and the accusation in my mind is warranted. And yes I do think he should send in a support case.

MA only says that the progression to use this level is at 100%.
Which might only means that MA does not advise the usage of such item before such point (not advisable to use it, but if you wish you still can).
No item is warranted to function at 100% of its capabilities no matter how high your skill level is.

 

[Thorn]

I`d say you have to look at amps as putting an extra coin in the slot machine basically. They are known to increase the size of claims. So with an amp a better chance at a bigger single claim. They may somehow cause you to find less overall claims to keep balance I feel but again as said thousands of bombs would need to be dropped to get an accurate assessment of how much. I`ve hit globals amped and unamped. More unamped but I mine more that way. I pretty much just use them every so often when I decide I can make a few with materials I have on hand and feel I`m ahead a bit. No rhyme or reason to thier usage. Just like there is no rhyme or reason to the way the loot cycles.

There are up and down periods for loot per player as each of us knows. They can last a long or short time before turning around. But I do feel that sometimes making a change such as from one mob to another or unamped to amped can seem to reset our personal streak. Which I look at in such things as determining damage or guaging the size claim a player will find as a roll of dice. Sometimes the numbers are not favoring you and sometimes they are. Gee did I just take up all that room to in effect say "it`s dynamic"?

 

[Shackleton]

Im saying, if I PAY ANYTHING for a game, subscription fee's monthly for most online games is what $20 / month, I better get more information than zilch from the designers as to what does what, and how something works.

I think part of the appeal of the game, and what makes it such a challenge is that some things have to be worked out for yourself and are not given straight to you by MA. I like all the theories about amps, skillgains and loot cylces etc, even if some are nonsense they are usually interesting to read.... If MA said exactly how everything worked then the game would be really really dull

Anyway bottom line is mining isn't half as much fun unamped

 

[Thorrn]

MA only says that the progression to use this level is at 100%.
Which might only means that MA does not advise the usage of such item before such point (not advisable to use it, but if you wish you still can).
No item is warranted to function at 100% of its capabilities no matter how high your skill level is.

Oh no I definitely understand that. But if it does say 100%, it should be the best its going to get? or else I dont know what 100% means...either they are using the wrong terminology for an answer, OR they are deliberately trying to deceive.

 

[Raimei]

Sorry I jumped most of the replys. Texts bored me as most were complaints.
I never got a global above 210 ped. To tell the truth got 1x 210, rest was below 144.tried some amps results were awful, decay was huge and so was my loss. I will never used them again until I have skills good enough to be sure I'll use them fully. Now, about amps, if we make the analogy with gun amps, let's say a gun has a range of damage from 20-50. we use an amp on it and it becomes 26-56. This means we can shoot the gun 10x and maybe get some above gun's max damage (from 50-56) but the most of them will be intermediate. what it really does for us is to raise the lowest value (from 20 to 26). that's how it works with guns and might be the same with mining amps.
we can use a bomb twice at same place and get a find only the second time or the third time....Will someone bet his bombs on that? Avegrage searches, like gun ranges are not always the same. You shoot and hit 25 dmg, you shoot again and you hit 48, then 22, then 35, .... you dropa bomb it searches 300mts, you drop again 450, then 200 ....

About average search, I think using a lower finder (let's say OF-101) after and OF-105 drop might find something the 105 wouldn't because they search at very different depths...so is my theory, but i just started mining not long ago....

 

[Cuga]

I was thinking about this and I have a theory about amps.

When you mine there are resources spread all over the grid. Now you put your amp on and the resource location within the grid changes. So you miss the ones forseen for no amped guys and you hit only ones in your category.

What does that mean? It means that each amp will give you different results in claim position. This way MA can control the output from the lootpool and not allow anyone to get that 109 and accidentaly score a 10k forseen for some unamped noob. That would explain the fact that we hit finds unamped in places where we hit nothing with amps. Theoreticaly if you had 9 different amps you could stand in one place and fire one bomb for every amp without 'blacklisting' that area.

I wish I could verify this.