Q: 90% TT return. What is the 100%?

[Mikeemooo]

Edit: deleted. broke my own rule in less than a day. Fail.

 

[sitram]

Edit: deleted. broke my own rule in less than a day. Fail.

I missed it

There there, feel

PS: I would qualify this as epic failure

 

[DoubleWolf]

EDIT: response to deleted post. I guess nevermind then, huh?

 

[Mikeemooo]

I missed it

There there, feel

PS: I would qualify this as epic failure

No reason why you can't carry on the discussion

Grab the excels for those two sumima runs, put them both into one big sheet, change the "Running total" column to this:

=IF(AC1="Running balance", 0, AC1)+D2-AB2

Switch over to the running total chart tab. See if your base loot changed at all after hofing..

(it doesn't, in this case. it's consistent throughout).

In fact, for Sumima your base loot is never over 8 PED. Next highest loot band is at ~26 PED. So strip out anything over 8 PED. Copy that over to a new spreadsheet and put that same formula down the running total column again. Create a line chart out of that and you should find that your base loot is very consistent. It's an almost perfectly straight line down.

I'd post them for you, but it's your own data and not mine to share

Or to summarise: I've not seen the same happen.

But that said, I'm out of this thread ;D

 

[ermik]

when talking about the hunting proffession , isnt it easier to just say it like it is?

i mean why say that long term avg is around 90% tt ?

when you can say ( and make alot more sense )

when you get a MISS , that particular tt spent will not get returned in loot.

HA 10 + 80 = Hitrate in %, giving a magical 90% tt that system will transform into loot over long term.

cheers

ermik

 

[Slippery]

I have 92% TT return counting ALL expenses (ammo, fap, armor, gun, amp, refiner, TP and so on)
If I would just count ammo+gun I would be over 100% but why should I?

If you just choose to count some of you expenses you are stupid! Learn how to do a budget.
Is it a coincidence that all the ppl with several 1000 posts (in the forum) lose money all the time (in game). They say they know what to do and how to do it...

What I don't get is why you should count in any other way than I do... I want to know if I lose money when I hunt! Simple, right? How do you do that? Fuck all theories and stuff like that and trying to get ahead. You compare all you expenses with all your income. It does not have to be harder than that so why complicate everything so much

You can choose between:

#1 This, this and this mater and not to forget this and that in combination with that matters.
#2 Do a simple budget over you PED ingame to see if you do well or not. If you lose, change.

Edit: Why bump a 5 month old post Ermik?

 

[AxeMurderer]

I have 92% TT return counting ALL expenses (ammo, fap, armor, gun, amp, refiner, TP and so on)
If I would just count ammo+gun I would be over 100% but why should I?

becouse if you fap while taking damage and don't shoot, when u pay your fapping and armor bill you have to get magicaly some loot without killing a mob. 92% of ALL your expenses, but I guess you don't

 

[ermik]

Edit: Why bump a 5 month old post Ermik?

for the same reason you choose to make a comment in a recently bumped 5 month old thread.

 

[ermik]

I have 92% TT return counting ALL expenses (ammo, fap, armor, gun, amp, refiner, TP and so on)
If I would just count ammo+gun I would be over 100% but why should I?

If you just choose to count some of you expenses you are stupid! Learn how to do a budget.
Is it a coincidence that all the ppl with several 1000 posts (in the forum) lose money all the time (in game). They say they know what to do and how to do it...

What I don't get is why you should count in any other way than I do... I want to know if I lose money when I hunt! Simple, right? How do you do that? Fuck all theories and stuff like that and trying to get ahead. You compare all you expenses with all your income. It does not have to be harder than that so why complicate everything so much

You can choose between:

#1 This, this and this mater and not to forget this and that in combination with that matters.
#2 Do a simple budget over you PED ingame to see if you do well or not. If you lose, change.

yes , too short

 

[Infinity01]

Trolling is about inducing negative emotions, not about making non-logical remarks.
Also, as previously stated (in this bloody thread even), standard doesn't rule out chance, and chance is particularly effective at warping results, especially in small segments.


The OP doesn't insinuate anything. Danimal on the other hand goes fists first by basically stating "lawl ur wr0ng, cus 10min PA n00bs c4n hof!!11oneeleven".
Tone of voice is important.


If it was just a neutral question I wouldn't had made any remarks whatsoever, and just answered it. However, load a question with insinuations, a question that is as easily answered as doing a forum search, and I'll be telling you to bugger off. An eye for an eye.

Cerebrus, I totally disagree with your comment about the OP. I think the OP has asked a very legitimate question. The varried response to his question, even by older players, indicate that most people don't have a clear answer with certainty...

Now,

1. if you fail to recognize the problem,
2. and feel that it has been solved,
3. and nobody should ask this question,

.. then I'd think that it is indeed a problem with your own cerebrum!...... at least there is clear evidence for low threshould for patience ..... now go figure


BACK TO THE TOPIC:

I don't know the answer to this question!

 

[Unearth]

I like to think ammo + weapon decay.

So, 90% of what you shoot.

 

[Slippery]

for the same reason you choose to make a comment in a recently bumped 5 month old thread.

Saw that after i posted

 

[Slippery]

becouse if you fap while taking damage and don't shoot, when u pay your fapping and armor bill you have to get magicaly some loot without killing a mob. 92% of ALL your expenses, but I guess you don't

Stop thinking so much. Kill, loot, rinse and repeat.

I use simple logic to a simple problem.

I guess you chose #1

 

[ermik]

Stop thinking so much. Kill, loot, rinse and repeat.

I use simple logic to a simple problem.

I guess you chose #1

yes , no need to keep track of everything.

just hunt and have fun , but follow some basic rules and there will be no need to tend to details all day long.

myself i live by one single rule, and its serving me well so far.

"Stay close to tt"

what im saying is, if i stay close to tt as my cost, i have affected the only thing i can affect , my cost.

since its not possible to affect the loot, only the cost , why worry about loot

Pay attention to cost and have fun, loot will come naturally

 

[Slippery]

yes , no need to keep track of everything.

just hunt and have fun , but follow some basic rules and there will be no need to tend to details all day long.

myself i live by one single rule, and its serving me well so far.

"Stay close to tt"

what im saying is, if i stay close to tt as my cost, i have affected the only thing i can affect , my cost.

since its not possible to affect the loot, only the cost , why worry about loot

Pay attention to cost and have fun, loot will come naturally

What he said

 

[Xavier_Jr]

Because the great variety of conceptualizations to define what should be measured.

First:

I propose the following, when we speak of 90% in the long term. We have two variables to be defined. (1) If we are talking about 90% as an approximate number or not. And (2) what is meant by long-term.

For this, I propose to consider Falkao percentiles table. So 90% is only an approximate number. And when we say “long term”, we are talking about having recycled over 100.000 peds inside the same activity.


Second:

As this is a subjective issue, some time before, I suggested in the forum wish list/suggestions the need to have a unique tool that unifies our criteria and that only way to achieve this was inside the same game. (as a tool counter) The idea had detractors and people who had supported it. However, all this thread makes me continue to believe that it is a good idea. This was that thread. and my conclusions here.


Third:

As we talk about a return rate of long-term of recycling peds (and not about time inside the game). I see here some people who have long experience in the game but who do not recycle a lot of peds in the game (tracker is not accurate but is an indicator, when someone have only a couple of globals in tracker means his runs probably always are from less than 50 peds, because usually in that way the system mostly do not give him globals). Therefore, their experience with what occurs in the long term is very limited. I see others who have no experience and who not recycled peds into the game. (nor time of playing or achievements in tracker) And a third group that has much experience and has recycled a lot of peds in the game. As this rate of return is about long-term referred to recycling of peds, the more credible opinions are from those of the latter group.

I want to propose as first reference the LOG of HUGH WILLOSE from Dark Knights, including his results (*) and his own calculation tool, that can be downloaded from here. So, in expenditures, Hugh is considering ammo + TOTAL repairs. It NOT only indicates repair of weapon and amplifier, keeps track of all repairs.


Fourth:

We must have a unified methodology to avoid at the same time everyone could be right and could be wrong. For that reason I would like some player as Falkao recommend to us a methodology for this measures. He could consider LOGs from Ubers or from higher mid-level players as reference.






(sorry my english is not the best)


------
(*) Note - Results of Hugh Willose:
.........................................
RoR (date) - PEDs Recycled
.........................................
81% (Jan 2010) - 46,409
83% (Feb 2010) - 84,568
89% (Mar 2010) - 136,783
89.4% (Apr 2010) - 179,295
91% (May 2010) - 232,076
100% (Jul 2010) - 256,759
.........................................

 

[bettlejus]

Guys, I am convonced that the suppossed 90% return is based on your deposits ( when the 90% return will hit it depends on your skill and the tools you use...I think)

How can you base the 90% return on tt spent? You can't! Why? Because let's say you deposit 1K usd, depending on your skill to play the game you can cycle those peds may many time before loosing them thus you can have about 8K peds spent on just 1K deposit ( yes, I'm talking about recycling)

I think the correct phrase would be the 90% return is based on the tt value LOST because when you reclycle you spend alot more then you deposit untill all your peds are gone

And if you think.....the tt lost is in almost all cases the tt deposited so 90% return is based on you LOST DEPOSITS

I seriously don;t thing that it's based on something else, it would make no sense

I can deposit 1k usd and spend 5K before loosing them, I know it sounds wird but that's just is

Imagine like this 1K peds splitted in 100ped /hunt

when your hunt is over you came back with 80 peds => 100 spent /980 left

another 100 ped/hunt, return 80 peds => another 100 spent /960 left

If you followed you can resume that you have spent 200 peds so far and still having 960

960+200 =1160 peds----more than you have deposited, that's why you can spent alot more than you have deposited, thus it would be stupid to base the return on just that ( would be nice though )

 

[Ace Flyster]

Guys, I am convonced that the suppossed 90% return is based on your deposits ( when the 90% return will hit it depends on your skill and the tools you use...I think)

How can you base the 90% return on tt spent? You can't! Why? Because let's say you deposit 1K usd, depending on your skill to play the game you can cycle those peds may many time before loosing them thus you can have about 8K peds spent on just 1K deposit ( yes, I'm talking about recycling)

I think the correct phrase would be the 90% return is based on the tt value LOST because when you reclycle you spend alot more then you deposit untill all your peds are gone

And if you think.....the tt lost is in almost all cases the tt deposited so 90% return is based on you LOST DEPOSITS

I seriously don;t thing that it's based on something else, it would make no sense

I can deposit 1k usd and spend 5K before loosing them, I know it sounds wird but that's just is

Imagine like this 1K peds splitted in 100ped /hunt

when your hunt is over you came back with 80 peds => 100 spent /980 left

another 100 ped/hunt, return 80 peds => another 100 spent /960 left

If you followed you can resume that you have spent 200 peds so far and still having 960

960+200 =1160 peds----more than you have deposited, that's why you can spent alot more than you have deposited, thus it would be stupid to base the return on just that ( would be nice though )

Sorry but this makes no sense (if i am reading correctly)

No.1) I know many none depositors who get 90% ish returns
No.2) MA have STATED that loot is not linked in anyway to deposits

You seem to be getting confused between cycled peds and total amounts.

You spend 1000 peds get back 900 peds
You spend 900 peds get back 810 peds
You spend 810 peds get back 729 peds

So after 3 runs you started with 1000 ped you end up with 729 peds.
You have cycled 2710 peds and recieved 2439 peds = 2439/2710 = 90%

Rgds

Ace

 

[Slippery]

Guys, I am convonced that the suppossed 90% return is based on your deposits ( when the 90% return will hit it depends on your skill and the tools you use...I think)

How can you base the 90% return on tt spent? You can't! Why? Because let's say you deposit 1K usd, depending on your skill to play the game you can cycle those peds may many time before loosing them thus you can have about 8K peds spent on just 1K deposit ( yes, I'm talking about recycling)

I think the correct phrase would be the 90% return is based on the tt value LOST because when you reclycle you spend alot more then you deposit untill all your peds are gone

And if you think.....the tt lost is in almost all cases the tt deposited so 90% return is based on you LOST DEPOSITS

I seriously don;t thing that it's based on something else, it would make no sense

I can deposit 1k usd and spend 5K before loosing them, I know it sounds wird but that's just is

Imagine like this 1K peds splitted in 100ped /hunt

when your hunt is over you came back with 80 peds => 100 spent /980 left

another 100 ped/hunt, return 80 peds => another 100 spent /960 left

If you followed you can resume that you have spent 200 peds so far and still having 960

960+200 =1160 peds----more than you have deposited, that's why you can spent alot more than you have deposited, thus it would be stupid to base the return on just that ( would be nice though )

And if you don't deposit and have 92% TT return? (100K ammo+decay cycled)

Edit: dam that Ace

 

[Wisdom]

it's 90% out of #6. That includes money spending on -say - pk in the ring at twins.

 

[sitram]

it's 90% out of #6. That includes money spending on -say - pk in the ring at twins.

Did you or anyone you know made any tests to prove this?

 

[Dr.D.C.]

90% return? doesn t exist in my experience

 

[Infinity01]

"Stay close to tt"

Best advice

what im saying is, if i stay close to tt as my cost, i have affected the only thing i can affect , my cost.

since its not possible to affect the loot, only the cost , why worry about loot

I disagree with this part... you can affect your loot by choosing mobs ... and thereby you can affect MU of the loot you are getting

Pay attention to cost and have fun, loot will come naturally

again, agree with this part....as far as TT value of loot is concerned.... one of the reason i didn't hunt Levi.....

 

[bettlejus]

Ace, what MA have stated is related to the deposit as an action

return is based on spendings so I speak here for the people who deposits in order to play, not those who stay 6 months to sweat and then go for a 100 argonauts hunt

It's all related to the spent amount ( from where you have that doesn;t matter ) but in the case of people who deposits it's clearly from where the spent money are, that's why I am saying that return is based on deposited lost amount,

As far a 90% return as a general ideea, I think that is true although if you think you loose about 13% of deposted money not only 10%, because 3,5% are taken when you deposit, I think that MA should have made this game with 100% return on let;s say 1K usd rollout because they would have gained money from deposits , but that would not be enough to buy a Lambo

In my opinion this game can be cheap to play but not that fun, if you want to have fun is a very expensive game to play ( where I am now lvl 42 HIT I think a rollout of about 2K USD/month will be enough so I can play with no wories, that is very expensive)

 

[Ace Flyster]

Ace, what MA have stated is related to the deposit as an action

return is based on spendings so I speak here for the people who deposits in order to play, not those who stay 6 months to sweat and then go for a 100 argonauts hunt

It's all related to the spent amount ( from where you have that doesn;t matter ) but in the case of people who deposits it's clearly from where the spent money are, that's why I am saying that return is based on deposited lost amount,

As far a 90% return as a general ideea, I think that is true although if you think you loose about 13% of deposted money not only 10%, because 3,5% are taken when you deposit, I think that MA should have made this game with 100% return on let;s say 1K usd rollout because they would have gained money from deposits , but that would not be enough to buy a Lambo

In my opinion this game can be cheap to play but not that fun, if you want to have fun is a very expensive game to play ( where I am now lvl 42 HIT I think a rollout of about 2K USD/month will be enough so I can play with no wories, that is very expensive)

I think i am just confused. MA's model is based on recieving money from decay (plus a few extras). So it is irrelavent how that money got to your ped card. There is no direct link between deposits and returns....there is a direct link between deposits and your ped card. And a direct link between decay spent and loot return ie 90%. If you want to incorporate deposits, you will need to incorporate all other ways peds can get on your ped card. IE trades etc. But again no direct link to loot and 90%

Or i am just not getting what you mean?

As a side note. MA make no money from deposits...all costs are incurred from your bank etc.

Rgds

Ace

EDIT: i dont think of deposits as MA's money, as long as it is on our ped cards, we can withdraw that at any time. That is why ma's model is based on decay, so you spend 100 ped in decay, MA take 100 ped in decay but give back 90ped in loot. Ie the 90% returns. So MA make 10 ped as the difference

 

[Xavier_Jr]

I think i am just confused. MA's model is based on recieving money from decay (plus a few extras). So it is irrelavent how that money got to your ped card.

You have reason almost at all. However if someone have a fat ped card, let him to recycle peds with a great turnover of PEDs, at very high velocity. (And besides to have enough support for bad cycles of loot.) Then, you have reason completely is decay and not deposits, but you can reach the 90% RoR, with a fat ped card very rapidly.

Returning to the matter of this post, ¿How is your opinion about my previos post?

 

[ermik]

I disagree with this part... you can affect your loot by choosing mobs ... and thereby you can affect MU of the loot you get ....

yes ofcourse , i was referring to that you cant affect the tt value of the loot , and yes a big part of the EU challenge is to find mobs that drop MU

 

[Ace Flyster]

You have reason almost at all. However if someone have a fat ped card, let him to recycle peds with a great turnover of PEDs, at very high velocity. (And besides to have enough support for bad cycles of loot.) Then, you have reason completely is decay and not deposits, but you can reach the 90% RoR, with a fat ped card very rapidly.

Returning to the matter of this post, ¿How is your opinion about my previos post?

I wasnt sure if you were aiming this at me. But...

I have read your post, and a lot of it makes sense.

I agree an ingame counter would be fantastic, but i see no gain for MA. MA have always from the start encouraged people to work out the stats for themselves. I don't see this changing. Also it would not make much business sense for them. The less people know abuot the stats....i would guess the more money they make. Too much knowledge would probably be detrimental to MA. So i cannot see this happening (i would like it though, my excel spreadsheets are massive now lol)

As for knowledge and player time for opinions. This is after all a freedom of speech forum. And healthy discussions from everyones view point, (From one day noob to 8 years active uber) are essential. And get a good overal feel of what people think of MA. I think it is for each individual to decide who's opinion has more weight.

But in my opinion you made good valid points. Even if i had to read it several times to understand lol. I think i need more coffee!!!

Rgds

Ace

 

[Xavier_Jr]

But in my opinion you made good valid points. Even if i had to read it several times to understand lol. I think i need more coffee!!!

Rgds

Ace

LOL... i would like to be fluent in english, but I am not. Can I invite you more coffe?...