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Question: Question about melee weapons.

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CozMoDan

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Herco Coz Mann
I am not being rude here but I do not see why anyone would use fists, swords, clubs or anything of that sort. It seems that the damage is slow and small and the decay is awful. I know that it is not true of all of them but the ones that have decent decay and power are way out of my price range. Mostly that it costs so much to get to the lvl one would need to use the item. I did start to go through the swords but after burning up 3 L-swords in three hunts that really didn't take too long and a small increase in skill lvl I figured that I could not afford to a swordsman:).

Anyway just your thoughts and as I said I am not giving crap here but I just can't see it. BTW I do have a good sword (My bud talked me into buying it:)) but I am about 85 lvls from being able to use it at its full potential.
 
Decay isn't what you should look at, look at the damage/pec rate instead, + extra strength and health is a plus ( and quite a lot of agility if one uses power fists)

It is also something one can use if one have come to the level in ones main profession where it starts to get excruciatingly boring to level, starting anew can be quite fun, and the health increase if one haven't used melee before is quite nice.
 
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There rnt too many reasons for someone to use more mele than ranged indeed and have to admit that mele sistem isnt as good as ranged but a reason might be the extra hp and the strenght..
 
The biggest problem i see with melee weapons is the lack of amps!!

The rest of what you say could be applied to any weapon so not really sure where you are coming from. I can keep up with my soc mates in a hunt no problem providing they remove the amps from their guns. (yes melee is my primary hunting profession). There is a slight lack of higher level swords, but that is slowly being addressed as the crafters loot new bp's.

The path of the blade is not for everyone.





Not sure if i mentioned this already but...

WE NEED MELEE AMPS :mad::(:mad::(:mad:
 
There is a school of thought in EU that says that there is an optimal weapon for each mob and maturity, and the corollary that there is a situation for each weapon when that particular weapon is the best one to use. The hard part is finding the right weapon to use at the right time. In the case of melee weapons the small tt knife is pretty good against mobs such as small sabakumas and small gradivores. It also has a lot of attacks per minute (unlike the tt sword). As Somon90 said, it is quite fun when you have been hunting larger mobs for a while and the skills have stopped coming, to go over to a melee weapon you have never used before and see all the green messages appear. Also, by skilling in other areas you will get your HP to increase faster than if you just follow one track.
 
I can see the bit about being fun, the few times I use mine, like for finishing, I do like it. I guess you just, like any of the other weapons, have to have the proper lvl to use it. It just seemed to me it cost more and lasts a shorter period of time, but I guess that is not the case after looking at the dmg/pec. Beings how I am so much further along I will stick with the guns, that way I won't cut myself:).
 
It didn't used to be this way - years back the Axe x1 stats included electric damage which made it a highly effective skilling weapon for LBs. I spent a long time skilling on Corns -as did many players - for most people this weapon lasted until they had skills in the 3-4k range. The whips were also far more economical before they were nerfed. Melee was a cheap and fun way of developing skills and playing the game.

Powerfists still remains a great way of developing health and other general combat skills - very, very quickly.

Now the situation seems very different - the new weapons seem to have the following problems:

Many have unrealistically high tt values (which reduces the number of players that can buy one - ie the market for these weapons is small)

Most of the ones with high damage have very, very poor economy (i.e are nothing more than PvP toys).

In particular I would suggest that MA need to introduce some new LBs for mid level LB users and some for the higher level users. These should have reasonable economy, be craftable, have a reasonable tt value (100 ped range), and comparable hit with other weapons.

Amp's (in my view) would just add another level of decay :(
 
Apart from the satisfaction it gives to slash a mob while staring it in the eyes (shooting mobs from 150m is for sissies :rolleyes: ), Melee has other perks like HP generation etc. as mentioned in earlier posts.

Violet said:
The biggest problem i see with melee weapons is the lack of amps!!
Click to expand...

One of the main reasons why I hunt primarily with melee is that it is unamped and gives me more equal loot distribution compared to guns, both amped and unamped.

I know the lootpool/loot distribution theories are numerous, my perception is that globals and small HoF's are more predictable and hence controllable; if I am down X ped I can assess if burning more peds makes sense or not.

Speaking for myself, unless I grasp the amp impact on my pedcard swings, I will not go for amped melee even if it comes available.

/Slupor
 
CozMoDan said:
I am not being rude here but I do not see why anyone would use fists, swords, clubs or anything of that sort. It seems that the damage is slow and small and the decay is awful. I know that it is not true of all of them but the ones that have decent decay and power are way out of my price range. Mostly that it costs so much to get to the lvl one would need to use the item. I did start to go through the swords but after burning up 3 L-swords in three hunts that really didn't take too long and a small increase in skill lvl I figured that I could not afford to a swordsman:).

Anyway just your thoughts and as I said I am not giving crap here but I just can't see it. BTW I do have a good sword (My bud talked me into buying it:)) but I am about 85 lvls from being able to use it at its full potential.
Click to expand...
well first

if you need 85 more levels to use the sword effectively, it isn't good :p

about problems i wrote an own thread here once, not much was changed, so i guess its still actual


to why you might skill it
depends, your profession levels increase slower for sure than with say laser pistols


but why do i skill melee, there are several reasons

it is a challenge, simply because of the hard road you have to go, it is a challenge
i unlocked wounding even with melee, which not many ppl do
thats a reason too btw, not many do it :p

also, i am using a unL embra sword on small stuff usually, it is pretty hard to use say 400 total decay up in a day, means my losses (in case i have any) are quite small, simply because my ped rotation isn't that high

ever wondered how much ped rotatation the ppl with the "i lost XXXXX ped in 2 weeks" threads had? :D
i can't even get to that :p

another reason is simple

in ranged i have no goal anymore really
i am maxed with pretty much anything L which is decently priced to be at least a bit eco, means i maxed pretty much anything L below 150% or so

so, what for to skill more?
everything above my ranged professions i maxed, so its useless for me to use it, except i want to lose bucket loads of cash

on the rare occassions i go for bigger stuff i use ranged guns, but my main will stay melee
else i may end up with losing too much money


don't get that wrong
if you buy a determination sword at swordsman lvl 20 or something and then complain about melee cost, well, thats your own fault

melee isn't the easy "piece of cake" world where you get sugar blown in the ass as with ranged

it is a way harder road, which needs way more preparation and skill and loot tracking to find a better way than the ranged area

so i like that challenge, and do quite some skill experiments to improve my knowledge about skill increases of melee especially

but it isn't the word of everyone
 
The old axes aren't bad. Neither is the kats honor. Ok they are not L, but that doesn't automatically make them crap.
Another thread in here computed that you need level 70 longblades to get those weapons to be as eco as a korrs h400.
Ofcourse that is an insane amount of skill. But 4.31 and 4.39 dmg/pec are hard to beat when these weapons are maxed. Sitting between all the adjusted and improved weapons in terms of eco. And at tt+20 and tt+7 they are bargains.
 
used laser rifle sometime, then pistols sometime

now melee ... and damn i like em. And the most i like is low weight .... for gunz u need ammo ... try take some 600 PED ammo on you when u go far from TP for longer hunt. Melee have nice TT in low weight.
 
P-J said:
It didn't used to be this way - years back the Axe x1 stats included electric damage which made it a highly effective skilling weapon for LBs. I spent a long time skilling on Corns -as did many players - for most people this weapon lasted until they had skills in the 3-4k range. The whips were also far more economical before they were nerfed. Melee was a cheap and fun way of developing skills and playing the game.

Powerfists still remains a great way of developing health and other general combat skills - very, very quickly.

Now the situation seems very different - the new weapons seem to have the following problems:

Many have unrealistically high tt values (which reduces the number of players that can buy one - ie the market for these weapons is small)

Most of the ones with high damage have very, very poor economy (i.e are nothing more than PvP toys).

In particular I would suggest that MA need to introduce some new LBs for mid level LB users and some for the higher level users. These should have reasonable economy, be craftable, have a reasonable tt value (100 ped range), and comparable hit with other weapons.

Amp's (in my view) would just add another level of decay :(
Click to expand...

noting more to say :)
 
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I am really glad that the OP started this thread.

I have had these questions for a while. I too have maxed any laser weapon that is reasonably priced. Just like most mid-level hunters, I use a P5a + a104 for hunting atrax. During the 3x skill event I bought a powerfist from a friend, and used it to finish the mobs. I gained 2 HP points by just using it to finish the mobs. This got me thinking...

According to a guide right here on EF, HP regen is based on a percentage of total health. So, more total HP means higher regen per tick. Higher regen means less FAPing. Less FAPing means less decay. I think you can see where I'm going...

I plan to use every aspect of melee to finish mobs off in the future. The HP gain would be well worth the .05 Dmg/PEC that you lose in uneco finishing.

Just my thoughts :)


-Piano
 
Think people have a slightly wrong perspective on things...

If you use a gun, you blast away, you kill most of the mob before it reaches you, you have less armour decay, you get weapon skills and agil...

If you use LB, you wait till the mob is near you, you have to fight the mob up close and you get hit... but you gain more evade than with rifle, you gain more HP with LB and strength, you are able to take on bigger mobs with lower level armour faster...

It's always wrong to look at weapon systems in isolation. Each one of them has it's own benefits... it's own strengths...

LB is not just a past time once you maxed your L guns... it's more than that. LB is a different style that has very distinct advantages.

It is true though that MA really nerved the LB professions. In the old days you tried to get LB up fast to gain health and evade as a n00b, using axe 1.0 till you hit 4-5k LB... these days the incentive is not there anymore... in the short run, the benefits are simply not there...

But look at it in the long run, LB is balancing your character and giving you are more "rounded" skillset...
 
slupor said:
One of the main reasons why I hunt primarily with melee is that it is unamped and gives me more equal loot distribution compared to guns, both amped and unamped.

I know the lootpool/loot distribution theories are numerous, my perception is that globals and small HoF's are more predictable and hence controllable; if I am down X ped I can assess if burning more peds makes sense or not.

Speaking for myself, unless I grasp the amp impact on my pedcard swings, I will not go for amped melee even if it comes available.

/Slupor
Click to expand...
Fair enough, and although i dont agree with your perception of loot distribution like you have stated there are various theories on the subject.

However..

The one word that is missing from your reply is "choice". You choose not to use them, but for those that would like to use melee amps like myself we dont have that choice currently, and this for me as a skilled melee hunter is whats wrong with the melee hunting profession :(
 
Yes, I am in agreement with just about everything said.

My reasons to mess with Melee:

- to increase evader and dodger professions
- to increase HP
- to increase total skills
- it's a bit of fun
- it's something different to do! :)

The weapon in my pic on the left is a Large Thorifoid Battle Spike Club - currently for sale :p
 
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Well.....in my case. I did tried a bit of power fisting myself. Was quite fun killing daikibas and snables alone, but came into trouble when teaming with another friend as that friend was using an opalo.

1) The monster kept switching between me and my friend.....I ended up having to chase after the monster to hit it....causing quite a few misses........as the screen can get quite shaky while trying to aim at the monster and its running away from you randomly....left and right. (Wonder if the weapon still decays when you hit empty air.)

2) My avatar ends up blocking my friend's LOF (Line of Fire).

But overall.....was still fun. My friend had been laughing at my decay rate though....and said it was more eco hunting with an opalo than the TT fist.

So....I guess...going melee would mean either you have to solo....or you'll have to team with people who use melee as well. Mixed assortments of teams is a no-no.

But the best advantage of going melee rather than using range, imho, is that using melee, I can run around.....wack and kill a few mobs.......go back home....and find that I still have some peds of wack in the melee weapon left for another day, but using range.....most often.......you'll find that you go back home empty.....not a single bullet left....and most often....a coupla shots ain't enough to kill any mobs. So.....I guess a melee still leaves you room to defend yourself while using range.....once your out.....your out. (Since I'm sure you won't risk killing a mob with your weapon if your not sure you can kill it before you run out right?)

Somehow......just somehow.....the feeling is different....when I use a range weapon to go out hunting and coming back feeling empty, than when I use a melee and coming back....feeling I still had "saved" some peds rather than losing everything. Even though the loot I get from using either is roughly the same.

Don't know if it sounds logical to you though. :silly2:
 
MysterLV said:
used laser rifle sometime, then pistols sometime

now melee ... and damn i like em. And the most i like is low weight .... for gunz u need ammo ... try take some 600 PED ammo on you when u go far from TP for longer hunt. Melee have nice TT in low weight.
Click to expand...

Thanks for selling me the Adjusted Embra anyway :)

Only one reason for using melee, it's easier when you are drunk. With rifles I miss all the time when lubricated as I am not a "health bar dragger" - that leads to too many friendly fire incidents in team hunts. Plus a lot of wasted shots due to terrain etc.

Seriously, there needs to be a balance. I strongly agree about amps, which have a major impact on DPS. For example I can craft a Rutic Blix with however much TT I have available (eco is impacted by doing less than full TT, but that is another debate) and use it effectively. The base damage of a Blix is roughly equivalent to the base damage of an Isis LR48 (51.6 vs 50 max), but once I add in a reasonable amp (A104) the LR 48 does 58.9 max. This means that I cannot keep up with my soc mates on team hunts without using an amped ranged weapon.

So, Melee is my solo path, self crafting is a huge advantage here to use the bigger weapons. I'm just short of the Genesis DB so that is my big aim at the moment. Ranged is for team hunts, and like Alice I'm maxed on all the reasonably available things.
 
sawachika said:
But the best advantage of going melee rather than using range, imho, is that using melee, I can run around.....wack and kill a few mobs.......go back home....and find that I still have some peds of wack in the melee weapon left for another day, but using range.....most often.......you'll find that you go back home empty.....not a single bullet left....and most often....a coupla shots ain't enough to kill any mobs. So.....I guess a melee still leaves you room to defend yourself while using range.....once your out.....your out. (Since I'm sure you won't risk killing a mob with your weapon if your not sure you can kill it before you run out right?)

Somehow......just somehow.....the feeling is different....when I use a range weapon to go out hunting and coming back feeling empty, than when I use a melee and coming back....feeling I still had "saved" some peds rather than losing everything. Even though the loot I get from using either is roughly the same.

Don't know if it sounds logical to you though. :silly2:
Click to expand...

I think that advantage you mean isn't that much of an advantage. Actually you have to compare ammo burn on ranged weapons with decay on melee weapons. Like you said, you can go out with a ranged weapon, use up all ammo and come back empty. With melee weapons it's the same. You can go out with it and strike until it's so much decayed that you can't use it anymore. You're quite much out of strikes, just like out of ammo.
Now ranged weapons even have the advantage that you can go on longer hunts, cos you can buy as much ammo as you want and the weapon decays slower than a melee (i think). The melee weapon quite much has a fixed amount of strikes until you have to repair it (like buying ammo). You can't buy more strikes to go on a longer hunt (can just buy several melee weapons to have more strikes with you).

Hoping that's kinda understandable. ;)
 
For me it was the HP gains more than anything. I'd hit a mob once or twice with a sword during the kill in hopes of a skill up and possibly a bonus skill when it died.
It was the most eco way I could figure out of skilling up without too many wasted swings and low damage.
And even with only 1.9 HA with a Determination it's still good fun in the ring :)
 
sawachika said:
Well.....in my case. I did tried a bit of power fisting myself. Was quite fun killing daikibas and snables alone, but came into trouble when teaming with another friend as that friend was using an opalo.

1) The monster kept switching between me and my friend.....I ended up having to chase after the monster to hit it....causing quite a few misses........as the screen can get quite shaky while trying to aim at the monster and its running away from you randomly....left and right. (Wonder if the weapon still decays when you hit empty air.)
Click to expand...

Melee weapons don't decay unless there is a mob targeted when you swing and it's in range. They theoretically have the advantage over ranged in this way, as only skill-based misses waste your peds. In practice i suspect that lag/network-based misses are a bigger issue so that's less of a bonus. But still a bonus. :)
 
For melee weapons i see a problem. There is low lvl stuff. Then there is high lvl stuff. But not rly much mid lvl stuff
 
Another problem are the (L) Melee weapons since you have nothing like ammo so it is like paying markup for your ammo [comparing with (L) ranged weapons] and so they ain't too eco.
I do seem get 'different' loot when using melee though [like more skins] but this could be just imagination.
 
It seems to me the value of melee skills is a lot more than ranged skills.

So if you're going to compare economy, you need to take this into account.

Of course, this is a long term consideration, and may change if fewer people take up Melee.
 
Doer said:
Melee weapons don't decay unless there is a mob targeted when you swing and it's in range. They theoretically have the advantage over ranged in this way, as only skill-based misses waste your peds. In practice i suspect that lag/network-based misses are a bigger issue so that's less of a bonus. But still a bonus. :)
Click to expand...

Wow, I did not know that...cool :)

Something occurred to be earlier last week. Melee weapons do not use ammo (duh ;)). They simply decay on every swing...does this mean that melee decay just simply goes towards MA's bottom line, and does not add to the loot pool?

Also, someone else had a good point earlier in this thread. Markup on a melee weapon is also markup on the ammo for that weapon (since it just decays per use). This is another thing to consider, esepcially with L melee weapons.
 
Pianoman178 said:
Wow, I did not know that...cool :)

Something occurred to be earlier last week. Melee weapons do not use ammo (duh ;)). They simply decay on every swing...does this mean that melee decay just simply goes towards MA's bottom line, and does not add to the loot pool?

Also, someone else had a good point earlier in this thread. Markup on a melee weapon is also markup on the ammo for that weapon (since it just decays per use). This is another thing to consider, esepcially with L melee weapons.
Click to expand...

Mindark never said that all decay goes to their bottom line, just that they make their income from decay. It is unreasonable to think that if we all started using melee only, the lootpool would dry up completely.

The issue of markup on melee weapons is huge! Many times I've heard someone complain about the "outrageous" markup of a Ukash pistol at 500%, then go buy an L sword at 110% and feel great about it. But the pistol at 500% is much better damage/pec than the sword at 110%.

I really don't understand why ppl pay such high markup on some melee weapons. :scratch2:
 
Not for nothing but people have put melee hunting teams together. Often for shits and giggles-- I think it was Leeloo who put a tt power fist team together for falx young (way fun btw as long as you are close to a revive); before the regen was cranked up on trox 1 or 2 other ppl could take a trox young-mature with the tt power fist.

You might not think this seems eco but in a team with a power fist you dont have to wear armor if you have some evade skills.

Its fun its different and EU offers challenges that you can make. ( I wonder if I could do a beacon with a tt power fist team hmmm).
 
I like to chop things, stab things and hit things with sticks. That's why I mainly use melee.

Hurrikane
 
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