Rebalanced Mission Rewards

[sighlentz]

Again, the problem is that it would become too easy to get tons of attributes. Just imagine when there are a dozen planets or so, all with really easy attribute giving missions... Travel around and kill a few hundred mobs on each, and *bam* you have 100+ in all attributes

Again, why is that a problem? Just getting alot of attributes doing easy missions dosen't make you a skilled player. Will having 100 agility after months instead of years allow me to use a lvl 50, or lvl60 or even lvl100 weapon, without chipping to those lvl's? Chipping is expensive and not everyone can or will chip up. You seem to take this position that a player must earn these rewards the hard way.

MA and PP's structured these attribute rewards in a certain way, and many ppl took on these missions for those rewards, now, for whatever reason, they don't like the way it is so it's getting nerfed heavily in MA's favor.

I would suggest new missions implement these changes and old missions cannot be started new after 10/9 and let the ppl who have started old missions finish them with the current reward system. Once all players have finished old missions or dropped them, MA can then convert those missions to the new system.

MA can even put a deadline of 12/31/2013 to finish old missions or drop them so they can be converted. What's the hurry for this to take place right away, it's been like this for years and now a change is being rushed down our throats.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

MA can even put a deadline of 12/31/2013 to finish old missions or drop them so they can be converted. What's the hurry for this to take place right away, it's been like this for years and now a change is being rushed down our throats.

I wouldn't call it rushed to be honest, we have had several months at least. Can't remember when it was first mentioned, but it was at least more than 5 months ago.

Why do us Meleers get less skill. Yes I can skill Hiryuu on 80% melee, All i have to do is get one shot at the mob to bring it to me. But yet 1/3rd the skill?????

Meleers want to know

"Rifle" affects 4 professions and gives +1 health per 1600 points.
"Handgun" affects 3 professions and gives +1 health per 1600 points.
"Melee Combat" affects 14 professions and gives +1 health per 533.3 points.



Probably the main reason.

 

[Talania]

They certainly did. For example the missions to kill 500 or 5000 Araneatrox, Argonaut, Armax, Atrox, Droka, Feffoid, Foul, Hiryuu, Merp, Molisk and Warriors previously gave Nova Fragments and now give attributes and skills instead.

I have not really compared all missions that gave skills and/or attributes before rebalance to the new rewards to see the difference there though.

Yes so if you finished all the missions up to 1k and have loads of 5k missions you will get less then what you would for skill reward if you had finished both the 5k and 10k before this nerf re-balance.

Example is the Iron Atrox 5k and 10k before and after:

Current reward is 1k Nova for 5k and 50 ped tt Dodge or 70 ped Evade.

Nerf rewards after re-balance will be 15.63 PED Dodge or 15.63 PED Evade for 5k and 31.25 PED Dodge or 31.25 PED Evade. Adding up to 46.88 Evade or Dodge total reward for 5k and 10k.

That is 3.12tt less on Dodge and 23.12tt less for Evade!

I am currently trying to finish my Atrox 10k Iron Mission. I had just finished and accepted the reward for the 5k before they announced the re-balance.

 

[jaywalker]

Looks pretty good to me.

As far as I can see, the people complaining are:

• those who've sat on their arses not doing any missions for the last 3 years and now expect to be treated the same as committed players who've dedicated themselves to completing, say, 15-20 iron challenges over that time;
• those who employed a bad strategy in choosing which missions to work on since the announcement of the rebalancing and now expect to be bailed out;
• those who couldn't be bothered to work on their migration missions when the mobs were available for over 2 months and now think they should be given another chance (which they probably still wouldn't take anyway).

You mean:

Those who took the long view and worked their asses off for three years trying to get to 80 in all attributes before doing too many missions, because that's what older players advised?

Those who recently diverted their energies from stages 4 and 5, and started a shitload of new missions instead. Because a little bird erroneously informed us that attributes not skills would be nerfed?

Yeah such lazy blihghters really deserve all they don't get.

I think it's clear that most of these people have unrealistic expectations and that their complaining should be discounted.

Yes, we all unrealistically expected that MA would keep their promise to give us this info in plenty of time to enable us to make informed decisions. Shoulda known better.

The only caveat I would make to that is in relation to the Steelbirds. I know there are some people who have been trying hard to complete this mission recently, but have been unable to do so because the spawns have been inadequate. It would be good to see some spawn improvements to give them a chance to complete it (I completed this mission long ago btw so it doesn't affect me personally).

And why the heck should we, MA or anybody care about your your own pet hobby horse, Oleg? You've made it clear, in no uncertain terms that you don't give a damn about the people struggling to complete 10k Aurlis, for instance. You think that's easier than 1k Steelbirds? (and no that doesn't include me, either. I never got that far. I just dreamed of completing 10k Aurlis, after picking up alll those -nerfed- evade points from other missions)

Please don't extend the deadline any further, let's just get on with it.

Well, well. Thus spake Oleg, the one and only dedicated player. Better do as he says.

jay

 

[RickEngland]

Well, actually new people are getting fucked over..

I could argue that I was f***ed over as started way after Star, Skippie and the other ubers. I've spent the last 7 years without access to their uber toys, nor can I use them now even if I did have access to such things due to 10/10 rules.(Level 65 rifle here).

Point is at every level of game development over the years there were advantages and disadvantages for being in game at a particular point in time.

Any new starter now will not have access to the CLD for 1000 ped each.

Now in two years from now there will be something else new, in fact every year there at least one new opportunity that presents itself.

I personally think any new players these days have more of any arm around thier shoulder than ever before, they are more protected by MA, have more opportunity to gain rewards on small mobs too, such mobs that I have little interest in hunting these days.

I think thair loot is probably much more evened out too, I'd say it's a great time to be a new starter here.

Look we have the new attributes enjoy what is available now, and don't look back. If theres one thing you need to learn about EU, it's that; "Your glass must always be half full, not half empty".

That is our lovely world, and it will continually change.

Rick

 

[sighlentz]

Here is the only related post I found from Charlie about that, seems to contradict what you are saying:

Originally Posted by Charlie|Calypso
All missions will be counted as individual missions, this means that there will no longer be an accumulated reward for 16600 on the final stage. It will, as you describe in your example be a reward based on the kills in each mission. This does not affect bronze missions since they are only one stage. If someone is on the 10k stage that person has received the attribute rewards from the earlier stages that may not be there after the change, so it depends a bit on if you value skills more than attributes.

Hmmmm, most of the Bronze mission's have been changed in the OP

 

[Theren Strange]

Theres far too much emphasis on gaining skills in EU, they really dont mean jackshit to anyone but the bean counters. It isnt a race, play the game according to your current level and try to do it without spending hard earnt real life cash. Chasing skills is just a means to your early end, too many folk spend far too much in this universe and gain so litle from it because theyve been brain washed into beleiving skills will bring success. They dont, hard analytical and methodical playing of this game brings success, not how much agility youve got. Yea it sucks, not being on a level playing field, but that field is one of your choosing and has no baring on the real game your playing.

 

[RickEngland]

You mean:

Those who took the long view and worked their asses off for three years trying to get to 80 in all attributes before doing too many missions, because that's what older players advised?

Those who recently diverted their energies from stages 4 and 5, and started a shitload of new missions instead. Because a little bird erroneously informed us that attributes not skills would be nerfed?

jay

Hey Jay i really like you, and I do feel your pain. If you really wanted attributes then the best option was to go for the 100-1000 missions. So you did the right thing, these new tokens are not a full point at stages of the mission anyhow.

I have a ton of 5K and 10k missions active, and also would have liked to finish the CP missions for the mega rewards, but hey ho, we can't do it all.

When it was mentioned some time ago that skills have more value than attributes, I personally kind of lost interest with attributes myself (it's only a badge). Skills are the new gold.

Try and relax about it Jay, take a deep breath, look on the bright side you got 300+ skills already way to go!!!! buy the time you collect up some missions, will be pushing 350k+

chin up my friend.

Rick

 

[True Juan]

For every 10K MISSION ther MUST BE a point of STAMINA in my opinion. If thats not the case, then thats sad

 

[sighlentz]

Again? Seriously?

Man, get a calculator and do some simple addition. Skill rewards got distributed among the chain, but in each that i have looked at, total has decreased compared to pre-change values.

And as already outlined in my previous post, total value of attributes which are possible to gain has been halved in most cases (except from stamina which suffered the least.)

the only standout I see so far is the new reward for Eviscerator. Old reward gives 4 attributes + stamina = 5 total and choice of 80ped Combat reflexes.

New reward, if you selected only Combat Reflexes through the entire chain would give 181.78ped Combat Reflexes............if you chose Combat Reflexs and attribute reward through entire chain, you'd end up with 4.25 total attributes (but lose stamina) and 72.78ped Combat reflexes


Still comparing old to new, maybe will find a few more standouts

 

[Moonbiter]

I could argue that I was f***ed over as started way after Star, Skippie and the other ubers. I've spent the last 7 years without access to their uber toys, nor can I use them now even if I did have access to such things due to 10/10 rules.(Level 65 rifle here).

Point is at every level of game development over the years there were advantages and disadvantages for being in game at a particular point in time.

Any new starter now will not have access to the CLD for 1000 ped each.

Now in two years from now there will be something else new, in fact every year there at least one new opportunity that presents itself.

I personally think any new players these days have more of any arm around thier shoulder than ever before, they are more protected by MA, have more opportunity to gain rewards on small mobs too, such mobs that I have little interest in hunting these days.

I think thair loot is probably much more evened out too, I'd say it's a great time to be a new starter here.

Look we have the new attributes enjoy what is available now, and don't look back. If theres one thing you need to learn about EU, it's that; "Your glass must always be half full, not half empty".

That is our lovely world, and it will continually change.

Rick

That is true. But i am not talking about financial or equipment opportunities, just skill. And MA has been nerfing that over and over.

1) Starting attribute change from 20 to 1.
2) Skill volume change (That's a one massive nerf, it's sad how people forget...)
3) Mob HP rebalance (There is a direct proportion between skillgains and mob hp, so bigger mobs=less skills)
4) Current mission change.

So time and time again skill progress has been nerfed. When other MMOs which have been around for a while are doing everything at their power to accomadate new players and make the progress to the top levels as smooth and as interesting as possible, MA is doing everything to make it more difficult. Is that really necessary? Games (RCE or not) can't survive on existing playerbase alone, so imho MA are shooting themselves in a foot here.

 

[aia]

And the people who dedicate more time and effort to EU should be rewarded more.

Until a couple of years ago, let's say to around vu 9.3, I probably was ingame at least 12 hours day.

Reward? Pretty much none.

The skills I got aren't worth much as compared to what could have been achieved with better equippent than Ghost+Determination/EWE-40+EK-2500. And as for attributes, back then there weren't any iron missions; the happy time for iron missions was a timeslot for 2 years or so that's closing now.

The items? Well, my TP(II) chip. Pixie SGA gloves (now surpassed by adj pixie). The other SGA item I looted is two Kobold (M) faceguards. Except from (L) mindforcechip exchanged for some components in last robot event, I havent' gotten any "handout" from MA such as event reward or for some other ingame activity (I should add, yet). The SGA Guide rifle I got now I got from auction by selling my fox ME and putting peds between; I was never invited to that program.

Besides from time spent, average of 2k ped/month spent (at least last 3 years) haven't lead to financial prosperity ingame (besides 3x christmas gifts pretty much any depositor with apartment gets I guess).

 

[jaywalker]

That is true. But i am not talking about financial or equipment opportunities, just skill. And MA has been nerfing that over and over.

1) Starting attribute change from 20 to 1.
2) Skill voume change (That's a one massive nerf, it's sad how people forget...)
3) Mob HP rebalance (There is a direct proportion between skillgains and mob hp, so bigger mobs=less skills)
4) Current mission change.

So time and time again skill progress has been nerfed. When other MMOs which have been around for a while are doing everything at their power to accomadate new players and make the progress to the top levels as smooth and as interesting as possible, MA is doing everything to make it more difficult. Is that really necessary? Games (RCE or not) can't survive on existing playerbase alone, so imho MA are shooting themselves in a foot here.

I agree

I was one of the people who started right after that big skill volume nerf. It was said, at the time, that it wasn't possible for new players to ever attain uber levels anymore.

That's probably true, but the mission system seemed like MA's attempt to compensate , which seemed very wise. Players need their dreams!

I, for one, had dreamed of eventually attaining near-uber evader levels via missions.Everybody knows that can't be done just by skilling anymore, but older players said : "Take heart! look at those Mission Rewards" However, the worst nerfs have hit the relevant skills. I no longer think that MA wants to help with this one, after all.

And what have the latest crop of new players really got out of this?

Attribute tokens , which they can only have if they choose to sacrifice a lot of the skill rewards (which would be mad)

Charlie advises that they save them til they get lev 90 or 100. Whaaa? MA have just demonstrated , once again, that's its no use having long-term plans in EU, becise MA will shift the goalposts before you reach them. And in the same breath, Charlie is telling newbies they'll be better off in the very long term?


jay

 

[RickEngland]

Charlie advises that they save them til they get lev 90 or 100. Whaaa? MA have just demonstrated , once again, that's its no use having long-term plans in EU, becise MA will shift the goalposts before you reach them. And in the same breath, Charlie is telling newbies they'll be better off in the very long term?

jay

Yes i will have to agree with this. MA have always looked at the short term, and then nerfed it later, as much as I don't like to say it, it is true. This was one of my biggest rants over the years. How they failed to take into consideration the potential success of those taking part in these missions, and think what the impact would be when other planets wanted the same opportunities defies belief.

Part of this is problem is planet partners (including caly), having a very narrow view of the entire universe, it is always sell it quick, fix it later. I think this is changing and the approach has moved to a situation that is more sensible.

We have what we have, take opportunities as quickly as you can when they arrive. As soon as the mission rebalanacing was announced I went wild on RT to collect what I could, nowing they were bound tod shut it down early, I missed a lot of the mission, but I gone a lot of the small ones done.

The general rule is if you hear about a change lock in what you can as quick as you can.

I got to go, mixing the game and business here (busy). got no time for this right now

GL

Rick

 

[remontoire]

Charlie advises that they save them til they get lev 90 or 100. Whaaa? MA have just demonstrated , once again, that's its no use having long-term plans in EU, becise MA will shift the goalposts before you reach them. And in the same breath, Charlie is telling newbies they'll be better of the very long term?

The new system really is better for getting newbies off the ground to higher levels. Getting attributes from killing 100 foul or 100 merp or 100 argonaut doesn't really do much for a new player. Getting attributes from those is very much a old player buff reward, new players are much better off taking the combat reflexes, or rifle or melee combat, etc skills. It will give quite a boost to them. Also, presently most attribute tokens have been pushed to missions where they might have some idea what attributes are instead of just shrugging.

 

[Few Scars]

Isn't 1000 Aurli 1 point of agility at the moment? As of Oct 9th it will be only 40 Attribute tokens Shit gotta smash 1600 Aurli ASAP!

 

[jaywalker]

The new system really is better for getting newbies off the ground to higher levels. Getting attributes from killing 100 foul or 100 merp or 100 argonaut doesn't really do much for a new player. Getting attributes from those is very much a old player buff reward, new players are much better off taking the combat reflexes, or rifle or melee combat, etc skills. It will give quite a boost to them. Also, presently most attribute tokens have been pushed to missions where they might have some idea what attributes are instead of just shrugging.

I understand that in principle. But they didn't actually increase the skills rewards for those newbie mission chains (which was what we expected, given the way it was marketed) they just removed the near-useless extra, reduced the skills a bit (in some cases a lot) and redistributed them across the chain. They can say "We're giving more skills for some missions" because of the redistrubution, but when you look at the chain a whole, that's just not true.

and do you not think that newbies would like to aspire to something more than "higher levels"? Or is the mid-level bottleneck a really great thing that every newebie dreams of being caught in, and would never ask for more?

jay

 

[Rave]

I think a lot of people are forgetting one thing... while you may not be able to get as many attribute points with the new system... you get to choose WHEN to apply them. I would rather raise my own attributes to 90 or 100 naturally, THEN apply the tokens. I think this adds a lot of value because you will spend FAR less PEDs to get naturally skilled for a while, then getting the new attributes immediately and spending way more PEDs down the road to skill up.

Yes? Logical?

 

[Mega]

Isn't 1000 Aurli 1 point of agility at the moment? As of Oct 9th it will be only 40 Attribute tokens Shit gotta smash 1600 Aurli ASAP!

It's worse for those (like myself) who haven't done the 100 and 500 too...

100 (Old) 1 Int (New) No tokens
500 (Old) 1 Psy (New) 0.2 Strength
1000 (Old) 1 Agility (New) 0.4 Agility.

I wont bother grabbing the 600 now though, same for Kreltin. I'll do them if and when my Ped card recovers.

 

[valentin]

It seems like ppl are used to this old mission system....Ok if MA wants a new mission system its ok but let the old missions be like they are because lot of ppl has invest lot of time and money in it so please MA dont go in and distroy all like you are used to do because of your greed.


From what i see here it seems that most ppl dont want the new system like you said.

 

[ntelinatsos]

Longtooth 1000 mission reward from +1 stamina and ~50 ped first aid only +1 stamina and 3.48 PED First Aid skill???
that's very unfair for ppls that are close to complete 1k longtooth mission but they didn't..
at least bring back the LT mission to complete it before reward change!!

 

[Jimmy B]

Well, actually new people are getting fucked over. Not only are they starting with lower attributes than those of us who created avatar before the nerf. And now, after the change takes place they can only gain half as much attributes as those who did missions before.

Oh I thought we were talking about the skill rewards. I'll start caring about attributes when they start doing something non-trivial.

For those that chose to work on all missions at the same time and not focus solely on one mob until that chain is finished this re-balance is fucking them over.

I did that too. Sure, I could view it as "all the 100, 500, 1000 missions I've done are now wasted". But the fact is there are so many missions I'll never run out of missions to do. I'll get more rewards out of the new system, not less, since I was never very good at working all the way through to 16600 mobs anyway.

Sure, for some people the new system is not quite as beneficial as the old system (mainly those who are so active they might actually one day finish the majority of the missions). But overall, I think it is a better system, and I like change for the better. And sure, I'd love it if the rewards added up to more than they did before, but I never expected it and the decrease overall doesn't warrant much of an outburst imo. People just don't like change. We prove it time and time again here, and waste any influence we have as a community by kicking up a big fuss about the wrong things.

 

[slupor]

I would really like to see the reward for completing a mission chain to remain a Stamina. If a full Stamina is too much, a percentage could be granted.

The reason is that Stamina is the tracker for completed mission Chains. It shows dedication to the game in a unique way, and is the reason lots of people hunt shit-looting mobs. Replacing Stamina with other attributes destroys the tracker & status function. Bad idea.

/Slupor

 

[Joat]

Thanks for info, this time I'm glad I were wrong when I thought that this info woldn't come.

For me this gives me mixed feelings. I've finished a lot of small missions (up to 5k) so I will
probably "lose" a lot of this nerf.
I hoped some of the bigger mobs would be closer to current rewards, so for me the interest
to keep grinding these missions droped quite a lot. My low activity will continue, no point
of changing that atm. (Eu isn't the main reason for that, other prio in RL now).
I doubt I'll finish these missions in the way I've done earlier, so from now on I guess I'll get a
count here and there when I stumble upon these mobs.

But in general, I think these changes are ok.

 

[Few Scars]

It's worse for those (like myself) who haven't done the 100 and 500 too...

100 (Old) 1 Int (New) No tokens
500 (Old) 1 Psy (New) 0.2 Strength
1000 (Old) 1 Agility (New) 0.4 Agility.

I wont bother grabbing the 600 now though, same for Kreltin. I'll do them if and when my Ped card recovers.

Crap, that is bad. It's the 21st today, not long it's going to be a busy week! That is a really crap change.

 

[remontoire]

I understand that in principle. But they didn't actually increase the skills rewards for those newbie mission chains (which was what we expected, given the way it was marketed) they just removed the near-useless extra, reduced the skills a bit (in some cases a lot) and redistributed them across the chain. They can say "We're giving more skills for some missions" because of the redistrubution, but when you look at the chain a whole, that's just not true.

AFAIAC, thats the rebalancing part.

and do you not think that newbies would like to aspire to something more than "higher levels"? Or is the mid-level bottleneck a really great thing that every newebie dreams of being caught in, and would never ask for more?

jay

It will take at least a couple of years of heavy grinding for people who are newbies now to get to the point where this will start to make difference - and by then, there will very probably be a bunch of extra missions that will give extra attributes. And skill rewards. Maybe even some that give tokens, as thet really helps with finances as things are.

I think several great mission chains exist to help people going into, or stuck in the mid levels to progress:

• Molisk and Argo Bornze retain the rewards these had pretty much intact
• Warrior 5K+10K still give 60 ped of courage
• Droka 5K+10K still give 30 ped first aid (but no novas ... how terrible )
• 5K+10K Evis give a massive 150 ped combat reflexes (or rifle/handgun if you really want) reward
• You can get a really nice athletics reward from feffoid iron with a top up from bronze, or nice athletics boost plus
  25 ped first aid
• Allophyls will give you are sizable boost to athletics
• Atrox 5k+10K seem awesome for evade and bronze is another chance to get plenty of athletics / first aid.

Which all work to put people at a better standing in evader and paramedic professions which are far harder to advance than hit+damage while providing a lot of mobs to shoot at to get those up as well. Sumima/Neconu/Scipulor/Aurli/Kreltin/Rextelum level is where the missions are not that widespread. Rex might almost be in previous category as well.

Besides, they might not be spawned or living on Calypso anyways and might thus be exposed to a whole different set of missions as the "default".

 

[remontoire]

I did that too. Sure, I could view it as "all the 100, 500, 1000 missions I've done are now wasted". But the fact is there are so many missions I'll never run out of missions to do. I'll get more rewards out of the new system, not less, since I was never very good at working all the way through to 16600 mobs anyway.

The views on if the attributes that were, or the small skill rewards that will be "a waste" for killing small amounts of mobs seem to be rather divergent.

 

[aridash]

...
Also great that all PP has to folow same border rules as for reward.
But it is NERF anyway, and for few peds TT of skill MA is saving it destroys all positive effect of those few goood changes. I cant belive u are so greed - we will dump tonnes of peds anyway to acomplish that.

greed? this would be the greed of giving us skills we never used to get, then cutting them back a bit. you used to dump peds for just the thrill of grinding.

seems a decent change to me, though not as good as the old system for 10k, the incremental stages make it much better. especially for the non-hardcore or casual players who can now get decent skill rewards for lower count missions. (attributes... never seen the appeal for them, skills are more valuable both as chippable and to avatar development. a couple of agility and strength points wouldnt make any difference to most, 20 ped of evade or first aid would)

 

[Charlie|MindArk]

Very good that it is more flexible in choices than it was before, wchich makes consecutive stages of mission not so disapointing.
Also great that all PP has to folow same border rules as for reward.
But it is NERF anyway, and for few peds TT of skill MA is saving it destroys all positive effect of those few goood changes. I cant belive u are so greed - we will dump tonnes of peds anyway to acomplish that.

I don't really get what you mean here, maybe I'm missinterpreting what you're saying but MA don't save any money by giving out less skill value since skills themselves don't have TT value, the ESI does.
What makes skills a good and valuable reward is that they are useful for everyone and have high markupvalues. MA/PPs do not make more money from lowering the rewards probably the opposite since it may lower the incentive to grind through the missions.

What would be greedy is to do the opposite and buff the rewards and make a 20k Leviathan mission with 10000PED Commando reward, I'm fairly sure that would generate a bit of activity and the people loosing would be everyone who have worked for their Commando skill. (Yes this is a bit exaggerated but you get the point)

 

[jaywalker]

I think a lot of people are forgetting one thing... while you may not be able to get as many attribute points with the new system... you get to choose WHEN to apply them.

I'm not forgetting that. I used the think that would be the one good thing to come out of these changes. Now I think it's irrelevant.

Why? because you have to sacrifice a big chunk of of those hard-earned skills to get the token.

So you can't say "Skill rewards haven't been nerfed....ummm, at least not very much" in one breath, then "You'll have attibute tokens. Yipee. Isn't that great? " in the next . It just doesn't add up, does it? You'll either have not-so-nerfed skills or you'll have attribute tokens. Nobody, newbie, uber or otherwise is gonna have both.

jay