Question: Remove the appartments' maintenance fee?

Should the maintenance fee be removed?

  • Yes

    Votes: 43 57.3%
  • No

    Votes: 32 42.7%

  • Total voters
    75
  • Poll closed .

Hubert Zymp

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Avatar Name
Hubert Bebert Zymp
Hi all,

Should MA remove the maintenance fee on estates (well, mostly appartments)? Well.. that is the question in this poll. :)

I'd advocate the Yes, as:
- The maintenance fee does not appeal in buying an appartment, and hence restricts something that can bring some fun and/or be of some use.
- The number of peds it brings Mindark is anyway ridiculous, they'll probably get more peds from players using the ad system (considering that more players will buy estates, if there is no fee): Happy Birthday my beloved Soc kind of messages and so on.
- The carpentry (crafting) market is not that busy, and hence the crafting profession is not popular. The "no fee" should boost all that.
- Anyway... there shouldn't be any maintenance fee on anything, that's what I think.
 
Since the fee is not required I don't see it as a huge problem. I just use apt as long term storage for junk I don't want to TT. Only have to pay the 10 ped fee when/if I want access to it.
 
Since the fee is not required I don't see it as a huge problem. I just use apt as long term storage for junk I don't want to TT. Only have to pay the 10 ped fee when/if I want access to it.
which is a good reason why its rather useless

when you walk around and look how many apt owner actually paid the fee ^^

i for once didnt since some months i guess
 
Buy a house no rental fees there since you own the land it is on. MAs incentive to move up in the game. And I thought the fees went to the Land owner if there is one for that area. I know my shopkeepers 2% tax comes back to me since I am the land owner. Any apartment building owners got point of view here "ND"?
 
Interesting pieces of information, I didn't know all that :yup:
 
Everything that brings money to the loot-pool is good ;)
 
Buy a house - ya know, I'd love to buy a house, there's just one problem:

There aren't any for sale. The real-estate side of EU is pathetic. Yes, I've seen a few deeds for some way out the way places, and at insanely high prices - hence I guess these deeds are still sitting around, waiting to sell.

But this also falls into that same idiotic concept of "owning land" - land is simply there.

I've seen I can't tell you how many sites I've visited exploring my way around the world and thought to myself "It would be great to put a house right here."

But that option does not exist.
I can't see any reason why we shouldn't be able to wander out somewhere, say into a forest of pink trees, fell a few and build a cabin. Or spend some time chipping away at boulders strewn across a rocky plain, and construct a small keep.

Calypso is a huge place, and yet housing is in such short supply.

Now before you say "Yes, but owning property means you can make money..." - no, it doesn't necessarily mean that. Yes, some properties can make money, if they're LA type properties, or feature hangers. But if you were to construct a small dwelling somewhere, you'd have no control over what mobs spawned, no residual income from hunting/mining, etc. You'd just have a place to dump your stuff, other than the storage boxes.

The whole point of Calypso is Colonization. Part of Colonization is the setting up of settlements - building homes and living out your life.

I say there should be a Residence Deed available from the trade terminal*, allowing anyone who wants one, and is limited to ONLY ONE, to pick a spot and call it "home".

This would allow for user-made "towns" to spring up in areas, dotting the landscape with little "villages".

Yes, these user-built settlements would lack some things - no Teleporter for quick access to the "big cities", no auto-cannons to fend off wild mobs - and that's a good thing. It gives the residents reasons to skill their hunting abilities, or hire guards. The benefits of this far outweigh the time it would take to do a little extra programming.

What would need to be done:

A little simple coding to ensure the site chosen is suitable - not too close to another structure, not in/on the water (though underwater dwellings might be kind of cool too), not hanging off the side of a mountain in such a manner as to defy the laws of physics. A simple check to see if the ground in a radius of the player is "level" and not "water" not "too close" to another structure, and not in the area of a "city, town or camp" (much in the same way you'll get the message "this area is not suitable for mining", if you try to mine in the biodome**)- otherwise show a message "This area is not suitable for housing".

Once the site is chosen and confirmed, You've got a small structure with a limited number of item points (5-10 maybe - after all, these should not be more beneficial than the elaborate multi-k-ped houses that do already exist).
Now you can move in - furnish as you like.

Now there may come a time when the site you've chosen no longer suits you. You should have the option as well to dismantle and move your little dwelling, come the day EU grows beyond just Calypso and CP.

* Yes, trade terminal. Yes, you only get one. No, you can't sell or trade it. Why? The reason is to make this available to everyone, and at a price reasonable enough that even a couple week old character can afford it.
Why only one? It prevents hoarding, price manipulation, and overcrowding.

** Yes, that's correct. You cannot mine in the biodome. Tried it for fun in New Switzerland, haven't tried it in PA, but I'm sure the same holds true there as well.

~I
 
Thanks for the long post ;) Interesting to read!
 
zomg, that was long,
:popcorn:
 
Okay, i'll be honest, i won't read that big long post.

Here's my 2 cents:

Of course, i wouldn't say no to removing a fee... But, if i look at it from MA's point of view, they would like to keep some sort of link to reality. In the real world, we pay rent for an appartment. When you own a house in real life, well, you have other things to pay for, but no rent.

I would never see MA removing this fee, but i wouldn't mind seeing it removed :).
 
Well, as much as I want to agree here....so that I can afford a polace to live for my ava, I cannot.

I have played games where the placement of houses was aloowed almost anywhere, and truth be told, it destroys the game. Your favorite hunting spots get ruined. The entire landscape become dotted with abodes. Which ruins the look and feel of the game.

Although I see the benefits to the individual here, I do not see the benefits to the community.
 
I have been against the apartment fee from the beginning. To me it feels like a monthly fee.. despite the game being free.

I have an apartment.. it is empty and I never use it, cause I don't like the fee. This also means I never buy any items to put in there..
 
land

agreed the land is vast and we as regular players can not own it . my apt is a storage like most people

Buy a house - ya know, I'd love to buy a house, there's just one problem:

There aren't any for sale. The real-estate side of EU is pathetic. Yes, I've seen a few deeds for some way out the way places, and at insanely high prices - hence I guess these deeds are still sitting around, waiting to sell.

But this also falls into that same idiotic concept of "owning land" - land is simply there.

I've seen I can't tell you how many sites I've visited exploring my way around the world and thought to myself "It would be great to put a house right here."

But that option does not exist.
I can't see any reason why we shouldn't be able to wander out somewhere, say into a forest of pink trees, fell a few and build a cabin. Or spend some time chipping away at boulders strewn across a rocky plain, and construct a small keep.

Calypso is a huge place, and yet housing is in such short supply.

Now before you say "Yes, but owning property means you can make money..." - no, it doesn't necessarily mean that. Yes, some properties can make money, if they're LA type properties, or feature hangers. But if you were to construct a small dwelling somewhere, you'd have no control over what mobs spawned, no residual income from hunting/mining, etc. You'd just have a place to dump your stuff, other than the storage boxes.

The whole point of Calypso is Colonization. Part of Colonization is the setting up of settlements - building homes and living out your life.

I say there should be a Residence Deed available from the trade terminal*, allowing anyone who wants one, and is limited to ONLY ONE, to pick a spot and call it "home".

This would allow for user-made "towns" to spring up in areas, dotting the landscape with little "villages".

Yes, these user-built settlements would lack some things - no Teleporter for quick access to the "big cities", no auto-cannons to fend off wild mobs - and that's a good thing. It gives the residents reasons to skill their hunting abilities, or hire guards. The benefits of this far outweigh the time it would take to do a little extra programming.

What would need to be done:

A little simple coding to ensure the site chosen is suitable - not too close to another structure, not in/on the water (though underwater dwellings might be kind of cool too), not hanging off the side of a mountain in such a manner as to defy the laws of physics. A simple check to see if the ground in a radius of the player is "level" and not "water" not "too close" to another structure, and not in the area of a "city, town or camp" (much in the same way you'll get the message "this area is not suitable for mining", if you try to mine in the biodome**)- otherwise show a message "This area is not suitable for housing".

Once the site is chosen and confirmed, You've got a small structure with a limited number of item points (5-10 maybe - after all, these should not be more beneficial than the elaborate multi-k-ped houses that do already exist).
Now you can move in - furnish as you like.

Now there may come a time when the site you've chosen no longer suits you. You should have the option as well to dismantle and move your little dwelling, come the day EU grows beyond just Calypso and CP.

* Yes, trade terminal. Yes, you only get one. No, you can't sell or trade it. Why? The reason is to make this available to everyone, and at a price reasonable enough that even a couple week old character can afford it.
Why only one? It prevents hoarding, price manipulation, and overcrowding.

** Yes, that's correct. You cannot mine in the biodome. Tried it for fun in New Switzerland, haven't tried it in PA, but I'm sure the same holds true there as well.

~I
 
I have nothing against the monthly fee in principle but I would like to see better value for money. Make apartments more attractive, for example:
Make it possible to quickly teleport to the nearest teleporter from your own apartment.
Introduce new types of furniture:
a screen which can show you a view from another place
a scrolling list of all messages for buying and selling (with an indication of where they are: PA or TP)
Ability to repaint/wallpaper the apartment
etc. etc.
 
Voted Yes here. Really don't mind paying this fee, but feel like it would be nice get something in return. Not sure exactly what tho...

I think that the real problem is the items limit. 120 items in a small flat...unless you collect complete armax or areanatrox skulls 120 items fills just about a corner...
So keep the fee if you like, MA, but please take away the storage limit!
Just imageine the landlord at your home knocking on your door telling you that "-You have to much stuff, please respect the 120 items rule..."

Really liked Indigo Wyrd's ideas about housing tho.:) +rep

Also liked this...
Originally Posted by davidgr1200 Make it possible to quickly teleport to the nearest teleporter from your own apartment.

Steve Mischief
 
Hi all,

Should MA remove the maintenance fee on estates (well, mostly appartments)? Well.. that is the question in this poll. :)

Yeah, I know, its such a pain in the arse to pay for these things. I mean heck, I'm sure MA feels the same way. They should probably just get rid of their server colocation, I'm sure they're sick of paying the bills for that. What do they need servers for anyways?

No one is making you buy an apartment. Don't want to pay the fee? Dont buy it, or buy it and dont use it. It's as simple as that.
 
a scrolling list of all messages for buying and selling (with an indication of where they are: PA or TP)
Not sure what I think about that one... Sounds like a great idea... but I feel that will remove the charm of wandering from tp to tp... well, my opinion

Thanks for the creativity, so :silly2:
 
Well I have nothing against "fees" if there are explanation to them. For example hunting tax is "fee" I can agree upon - because I get some service for it, and it is part of economy. The same I can say about shop tax.. Well it is good and understandable tax - Mall owner provides service for shopkeeper which provides service for buyer - you understand what you pay for.

On the other hand Auction fee for example seems artificial. I can see that I am paying for service, but this fee was introduced in economy in artificial way. MA controls auction so it has monopoly over fees - only good reason one could think - auction fee makes shops look more attractive.

But this is bad. Market of economy should be free. If there would be several auction service providers - like auction license - then such fee would make sense - cause fee amount would be part or strategy of how to compete with other service providers.

The same applies to other areas of fees - like apartment fee mentioned here.
If apartment fee would go to owner of building and in return he provided some service (planted flowers around the building, made repairs - anything can be invented)- that would be good, cause it would introduce another dimension in games economy. It would be interesting to buy houses, so you could rent flats or just sell them and collect maintenence fee.. The fee amount would then be part of competition.

So in my opinion. Fees are only good if they add some dimensions to economy - oportunities for players to start their business like MA claims they can..
Any other fee is just another limitation. Artificially created limits are never good for free market.

MA market is still too young for companies to be seriously interested in it.
The economy is simple and straightforward. We need to make it more wild :)

LET THE MARKET BREATHE. LET THE MARKET LIVE IT'S OWN LIFE
 
Auction fees make some degree of sense - if you've ever held an auction, you pay the auctioneer for his/her services - those services being both a measure of entertainment (a good auctioneer is also a good show(wo)man), as well as a good sales(wo)man - they're going to get you the best bid for your item.

And I could see the EU Auctioneers charging a fee for their services - IF they actually did something.

But they don't. They're little more than lifeless automatons - a human-looking terminal. But they siphon away PED for taking your listing, and siphon away more when you sell your item. They don't promote anyone's items, they don't provide any entertainment value at all - the terminals are more animate than the auctioneers!

So there's little difference in paying the auctioneer for use of the auction as there would be paying a terminal to use it.

And to make matters worse - all the auctions are the same, no matter if you visit an auction in Twin Peaks or Nea's, or anywhere else - same items, same prices (though some include transport costs), and same auction terminal.

If these auctions were hosted by live people, the fee would be justified - someone is putting in their time and energy to provide a service. But since they're not - and the auction is little more than a data base displayed as a "bulletin board", I say anything more than a simple 5 pec listing fee is grossly unwarranted - and is the reason I will not sell in the auction.

Of course, getting this changed isn't that difficult - we only need to boycott listing in the auction to get MA's attention. A couple days of nothing new listed, a week of empty auction, and I'm sure they'd start listening.

The same is true of Apartment fees - yes, I realize it simulates "rent", and there is, at the very least, some manner of service provided (storage and display of "stuff" as well the opportunity to offer one's own services) - but...

It's less convenient to store stuff in an apartment than it is to stash it in a storage box (which can be accessed globally), where the apartment has to be visited to retrieve one's goods.

Consider: If you stashed your prized Marbar Tango Rifle in your apartment in Genesis because it "looks good" sitting on your display table, but find yourself in a difficult situation out by the North Space Base - it's a long haul back to get it - more than time enough for whatever critter is giving you so much trouble to fully regen, as compared to how long it would take to fetch it from a storage box.

So what does your simulated "rent" really get you?

~I
 
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Hi all,
- The maintenance fee does not appeal in buying an appartment, and hence restricts something that can bring some fun and/or be of some use.

I'd say it was the resellers who killed the apartments, by buying up all free apartments. My guess is that even at 250 ped, a small apartment far from TP isn't so attractive - so even less if same apartment is 600 ped, and that you can't pick any unhabited apartment but your only choice is whatever apartment the reseller put up on auction.

It's also kind of shame - yesterday, there was a shed in a landarea for sale. One serious players, and the rest (probably) resellers. The serious player eventually turned in the towel after almost an hour of +1 bid increses, sometimes waiting 4 minutes between bids; and someone who turned up to be a reseller (french looking name - do we have any reseller who it could be an alternate account of, after all it's 8k peds in auction so it can't be a random beginner), and now the shed is relisted at auction for yet a week with a jacked-up price.

The reseller had no inention of buying the shed to provide services, neitehr did the reseller buy it to have it as home (buy, for instance, bringing bought furniture into it) - the sole purpose of this shed will be just to give the reseller a few huntred peds when it has gotten rotten at auciton.
 
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Auction fees make some degree of sense - if you've ever held an auction, you pay the auctioneer for his/her services - those services being both a measure of entertainment (a good auctioneer is also a good show(wo)man), as well as a good sales(wo)man - they're going to get you the best bid for your item.

And I could see the EU Auctioneers charging a fee for their services - IF they actually did something.

First version of auction fee, 1 ped flat fee, probably was good because it opened up for traders, and secondly, people had to stack up items rather than selling one animal hide at a time. At the time the auction would probably be flooded if it was completely free.

Second version is good, because first the flat fee was lowered meaning easier to sell low-markup items, and secondly, though it can feel bad for hunters who sell their ESI, it makes it more expensive for resellers to keep an overpriced (startbid) item on auction for week after week (as is it more expensive to pull up prices by letting a secondary avatar bid). Simply - if you don't want to pay high auction fee, set start bid to TT (and hope servers don't go down when auction expires, of course). Yes, you'll "pay" same amount after all, but it's no cashout, it's just if the buyer paid 20 ped less or so for the ESI.

As for bid wars, I wonder if the future is that first bid you place is free, second bid cost 1 ped, and then it go up 1 ped for each addidtional bid. Simply to curb the +1 ped bid was and instead bid what you really want to pay for the thing at once. Or if the smallest increase of bids would be 1% of the previous bid (rounded down to full ped) - This wouldn't matter much for ME auctions, but would stop people from halting an auction by +1 PED increases every fourth minute for an item worth say 5000 ped.
 
I'd say it was the resellers who killed the apartments, by buying up all free apartments. My guess is that even at 250 ped, a small apartment far from TP isn't so attractive - so even less if same apartment is 600 ped, and that you can't pick any unhabited apartment but your only choice is whatever apartment the reseller put up on auction.
Well, it's a free economy what can I say... Any appartment will sell for at least +450 peds in an active market (dunno what is the market status for that category right now - maybe a good time to buy).

But if MA wants to remove the fee, they'll have to add new appartment buildings, as the price will for sure rise.
 
Auction fees make some degree of sense - if you've ever held an auction, you pay the auctioneer for his/her services - those services being both a measure of entertainment (a good auctioneer is also a good show(wo)man), as well as a good sales(wo)man - they're going to get you the best bid for your item.
~I

Yes but as long as EU, has a monopoly over Auction service and fee it is an artificially created fee, because we do not know how much the service would cost in free market situation.. Look at the land areas for example.. we know that normal hunting tax is 3 - 4 % for example.. But if all lands would be owned by MA it would be artificially created 5 % fee that does not contribute to economy.

So MA says that fees you pay to MA goes back into the economy - that makes it even more artificial.. On the other hand if fee or tax goes first hand to service providers other than MA, then we can only say it contributes to economy.

For auction fee to make any sense (and I mean that 5% markup fee not that 0.5 PED auction fee, which is good cause it stops people from dropping shit in auction just in case someone grabs it) MA should introduce auction fee holders.. In fact such trade system would be much more interesting for buying than current bank licenses - don't kill me for saying it, but currently it seems that bank licenses only sounds like a nice word, but does not offer any real business in EU to get back what poor buyers payed for them:)
 
Well, it's a free economy what can I say... Any appartment will sell for at least +450 peds in an active market (dunno what is the market status for that category right now - maybe a good time to buy).

The apartments were there for loooong time at 250-350 ped each, when they vanished within 2-3 hours. Hence, even 250 ped is much for an apartment in a building not adjecant to the teleporter.

Since the only way to not feed resellers is not buying from them, I'd say stay away from apartments without balcony at 10th floor and up, and those a bit far away from teleporter (for instance "D" buildings and up), unless you know that the seller is or has been an active player. If you really must have an apartment, know that anything you pay above 250 ped does not go to MA, but as a "gift" to a reseller.

As for the monthly rent, I guess it's a way to keep track of how often apartments is used. Maybe it lessens loads on servers a bit because noone can visit unpaid furnished apartments.
 
So what isthe consensus of this discussion :)?
Not really a consensus on this topic! ;)

A majority for removing the fee, so.

From the "No" side, the main argument is that the fee helps MA.

To this argument, it can be answered that, since only a share of the appartment owners pay the fee (since they use the appartment as storage), and the number of appartments is not that big, that the overall amount gained by MA is not big.
(Does someone knows how many appartments there are? ... or a number close to that? -then we can do some calculation to prove the point)

Another point is that some players believe a new system should arise. Which would benefit both the player and MA.
Thread here:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/housing/116034-home-ownership-popular-request.html
 
Decrease the apartment rent to 1 PED per month but make it obligatory. At the moment it is 10 PED per month but you don't have to pay unless you actually want access. This means there are a lot of apartments which are basically locked out of the game.
 
I kike the idea of the auto rent from your account, even if you have not claimed an apartment. The reason. The couple of thousand aparments owned but not claimed may return to the market rather fast. Not having a stab at the guys who bought them, it was a huge gamble but.

The housing market is static, it does not grow. If the introduction of New Switz and Palms had have seen titles for those places hit the market, wow what a bidding war. But it hasnt. They guys saw a opportunity to capture a static market, and as resellers maybe double their money. The reality is that people will not buy the apartmets at the very high prices and they can not afford to sell them for less. It seems to have killed the ownership concept to me.

Been playing for 4 years and yes there were a lot of unused apartments, but that was more a free market than what we see today and for the last year or so.

Reduce the fee? Maybe. but make it mandatory and automatic - title cant be sold unless maintenece fee paid up and MA will "reposess" unpaid titles after 300 days - like an unused ava and their stuff .

Someone has to pay the freaking rent :)
 
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