Renting in the universe

[ulp]

me and a few friends were talking during luch about what is missing in the entropia universe.

this is what we came up with.

Ingame Rental of items:
the suggestion we had was to have it similar to the auction interface a "rental npc" maybe ?
were ppl can put out unlimited items (not stackable and materials) and rent them out

for example: i have a ml35 lying around in my storage that i dont use at the moment so i go to the rental npc and decide how long i wanna have it rentedout and what the fee is gonna be per hour or day, lets say just for easy math that we will rent it out for 100ped / 24hours and that i wanna rent it out for 7 days.
after that i put it out for rent. (renting out an item will have a fee like auction for the bennefit of MA)

then Jakkin Viper Verbatim decides he wants to rent it for 5 days.
so he pays 500ped + the tt value of the item (so that there isent any problems with decay later on) and maybe an additional % of the price so that MA makes some proffit from it after that he goes out hunting and decays the gun to 0% so he goes back to the terminals and repairs it for 10ped more then the tt was in the beginning and after that decides he wants to cansle the rent (this is 1 day after the rent started cus that will be the shortest rent time) so then he getts back the ped he put in for the tt + 10ped extra cus of the repairs he did and then 400ped minus 5% of the peds cus they will go away cus of early rental ending.

after the rental time is over the item/items gets returned to the rental npc so that the owner can collect it from there along with the peds

items that are rented can not be traded or sold with anyone

the only person that can recall the loan is the person renting it cus he is paying for it






would be happy to get input on this please put in a comment cus i will send the results to mindark

 

[Oleg]

It's been discussed a million times, and MA have said they won't do it.

The problem is that it allows monopolisation and would ultimately make the desirable items inaccessible, and drives prices up, if things don't disappear from the market completely.

You renting your ML-35 to your friend might seem OK, but how would you feel if someone bought all the ML-35s and made them available for rent only?

 

[ulp]

then we will have to come up with a way to block the ammount of peds you can charge for an item based on the tt or something

so that having monopoly wount proffit that mutch

for example rentprice max = max tt on gun / day or something


and the reason for renting out stuff is cus you dont wanna sell the items for example it will make ppl desire more to get unlimited items since you can make some extra peds on having one

 

[ulp]

and one more thing ... i for one wouldent sell my ml 35 and i think manny ppl will think that way aswell

 

[Oleg]

then we will have to come up with a way to block the ammount of peds you can charge for an item based on the tt or something

so that having monopoly wount proffit that mutch

for example rentprice max = max tt on gun / day or something

It's suppose to be a free economy, putting artificial restrictions like that in doesn't it in with "the EU way". And anyway it doesn't matter if the margins are small, you'd be able to profit for doing nothing so it would be attractive. If you don't believe how much sway tiny margins can have on the price of an item, try buying a hangar

and the reason for renting out stuff is cus you dont wanna sell the items for example it will make ppl desire more to get unlimited items since you can make some extra peds on having one

Exactly, so prices will skyrocket. Most people think there's a glass ceiling now, a renting system would make it a lot worse.

 

[Roy Tyrell]

There are some rental services available, but none are through MA. If you search through EF, someone created a listing of most of them. Each have their conditions, so read them all carefully and find one that works for you.

I personnaly belong to H & R Circle.

Good luck.

 

[Kydde]

I can see the idea quite nicley before my eyes, it whould certanily make things easier and much more trustworthy with a system built in. I my self is also in H&R Circle and love it to bits, but a system might make it a bit more affective.


I agree totally about the monopoly situation and that would be a horrified situation that is hard to break. ALTHOUGH, I would see it very hard for someone to actually buy up all of the ML-35's in game, donno how many it is but I'm pretty sure the person needs a lot of cash spare around, not to mention to convince all of the owners to let him or her buy them all.
In conclution I would see it very hard for a monopoly of that calibre to occur. Its possible, but very hard.

 

[Oleg]

I agree totally about the monopoly situation and that would be a horrified situation that is hard to break. ALTHOUGH, I would see it very hard for someone to actually buy up all of the ML-35's in game, donno how many it is but I'm pretty sure the person needs a lot of cash spare around, not to mention to convince all of the owners to let him or her buy them all.
In conclution I would see it very hard for a monopoly of that calibre to occur. Its possible, but very hard.

Yeah, I only used ML-35 as an example because the OP did. Make it Firestorm chips and the point is clearer.

 

[ulp]

oleg see it this way
what happends if a player buys all firestorm chipps and rents them out for 5k peds / day do you think anyone will rent them ? seriously ?

that is the point with this renting system ... ppl will use unlimited bigger guns that they cant affoard in there wettest dreams for that single hunt on that big mob

and ppl that rent out the items will wanna make the most money
and you do that by renting it out to as many ppl as possible ... and you dont do that with a firestorm chip at huge rentingprice it will be like one of those ppl setting out animal eye oil for 300% hoping somone will miss click ...

and if somone buys all firestorm chips how is that gonna matter if he rents them out ... shure he will get a bit higher prices then if many have em but ppl wouldent rent it then


no matter what ppl say this game has become "i am eco" based so ppl rent items they think they might need to proffit ... they dont rent for instant loss ...

 

[CycoKick]

then we will have to come up with a way to block the ammount of peds you can charge for an item based on the tt or something

so that having monopoly wount proffit that mutch

for example rentprice max = max tt on gun / day or something


and the reason for renting out stuff is cus you dont wanna sell the items for example it will make ppl desire more to get unlimited items since you can make some extra peds on having one

Please keep those terrible runescape sorta phrases out of here!!!!


It will never be added as it will create monopolies, up prices and allows for 100% utilisation of all economic equipment..

And that would suck for the average loot BIG time


Think about every mod fap, imp fap, impmkII MKII, mod merc beeing utilised 24-7 as people will rent it out for the hours they log off to soc mates and friends. every item will get used 3 times as much and be a 3 times as large strain on the economy.

 

[ulp]

Think about every mod fap, imp fap, impmkII MKII, mod merc beeing utilised 24-7 as people will rent it out for the hours they log off to soc mates and friends. every item will get used 3 times as much and be a 3 times as large strain on the economy.

that is the reason why there is supposed to be a minimum time for rental when the item cant be accessed by the owner for example 1-2 days and what is it that says players dont already lend the good stuff to friends while offline ?

and about the economy ?? seriously ?? when did getting more peds in to the game become bad for the economy ? ppl will rent ul items to use beside there limited ones ?

manny ppl would rent plasmas that for the moment is lying around in the ah not waisting freshly deposited peds ?




and besides the person that has the eco that it says on entropedia is the one owning the gun ... eco will dropp since you pay of the loan aswell ... so i dont see the whole strain on the economy

 

[davidgr1200]

Just look at the apartment situation. There used to be about 20 pages of apartments for sale in the auction. This meant that anybody who wanted one had an opportunity to buy one at a "reasonable" price. I believe the price was around 250 PED for a small apratment if my memory serves me well. Then someone bought up ALL the apartments which MA had put on auction and started selling them for at least double the price. This is despite the fact that they are not earning any money on these apartments in the meantime. If they could rent them out and get some money without selling them then I think you can see that the price in auction would increase dramatically. They would have no incentive to sell an apartment at today's prices but could double the prices again.
Think about the same thing happening to rare weapons. The first thing that would happen would be that their price in auction would at least double. Great for anyone actually owning one already but a catastrophe for someone saving up to buy one.
The idea is good but in practice the EU world is too restricted for it to work properly.

 

[Congadawg]

For every system in game, there are a hundred people who will find a way to abuse it. This would be no exception. I agree its a great idea and one I would probably use, but it'll never happen.

 

[ulp]

Think about the same thing happening to rare weapons. The first thing that would happen would be that their price in auction would at least double. Great for anyone actually owning one already but a catastrophe for someone saving up to buy one.
The idea is good but in practice the EU world is too restricted for it to work properly.

those weapons arent even on the auction as it is now ?
and alot more ppl would have access to the better guns and armor so i realy dont se the problem in that

shure the prices on the allready insane weapons will be even more insane but the ppl that can affoard those will be able to affoard them after aswell

 

[CycoKick]

that is the reason why there is supposed to be a minimum time for rental when the item cant be accessed by the owner for example 1-2 days and what is it that says players dont already lend the good stuff to friends while offline ?

and about the economy ?? seriously ?? when did getting more peds in to the game become bad for the economy ? ppl will rent ul items to use beside there limited ones ?

manny ppl would rent plasmas that for the moment is lying around in the ah not waisting freshly deposited peds ?




and besides the person that has the eco that it says on entropedia is the one owning the gun ... eco will dropp since you pay of the loan aswell ... so i dont see the whole strain on the economy

Because noone wants to give out the items worth 10´s of thousands of dollars unless they are 100% sure nothing happens and even then it does happen...

Thats why. It will have an effect on the the system. Ive got calculations in a thread about 2 years old that show that if it would be possible to do this and utilise good guns 24-7 itll make millions of peds difference, talk about bad loot now then ittl be hell rofl..

Prices on items will go up as people can make money with it without putting effort in it. Its basic economics it will happen and its exactly what mindark is trying to reduce atm.

 

[Tracer-Bullet]

In a good economy the renting of items would be ok. However due to the fact that EU has a rather poor economy is simply isn't possible, due to not wanting to make it worse.

Only when key economic issues get addressed and fixed / new ones implemented will the renting of items become remotely possible.

Although as someone who studies economics I wouldn't mind putting some theory into practice by watching what would happen if renting was implemented in the current economy.

 

[ulp]

just so you ppl know this thread was to refine the ideá before i send it of to MA so what should be changed for it to work

a % fee that improves with the ammount % compared to the tt value of the item ?

 

[Wody]

Nothing you change will make it work, except abandoning the idea. They will probably answer it will be send to the design team, but it will never happen.

 

[Lugzan]

did MA actually say this was the reason why they will not do it? I mean, maybe but I just never heard of it.

don't you agree that current situation with the top stuff is already monopolised? I have not yet seen anyone trying to buy up all the best stuff there is, although there is a green light for that.

I think there's something else behind the point why MA does not want to do it. most probably something like what if the person who set it available for renting for a year and after it was rented out for that period the owner changes mind so to speak (whichever reason). cancel the deal and return item to the owner with penalty (fixed rate from the fee paid returned to the one that rented it)? difficult but realistic to solve.

I do not see other extreme issues right now. besides, MA can earn a fat % on any such deal made - they should be interested implementing it... ahh, the L economy (pfft)! if every UL item dusting in the storage is suddenly available via renting, L stuff will become a lot more unnecessary. that could be the problem they try to avoid... well, can be solved through setting the % to MA high enough. the profit can be then spread between lootpools of miners and crafters =)

any other ideas why it has been a NO so far from MA's side and how it could be done?


J.

It's been discussed a million times, and MA have said they won't do it.

The problem is that it allows monopolisation and would ultimately make the desirable items inaccessible, and drives prices up, if things don't disappear from the market completely.

You renting your ML-35 to your friend might seem OK, but how would you feel if someone bought all the ML-35s and made them available for rent only?

 

[Wody]

MA has said they won't do it because it would have the risk of putting all the items into only a few hands, and they don't want such limitations.

The general idea of MA is that they don't want to artificially limit the economy, the same reason why the sweat-limit was removed, and why such a limit will never come back, for example.

 

[Lugzan]

well, that risk has been there since day 0. any person can buy up everything at any time wanted. and, all the best items ARE in the hands of very few =)


J.

MA has said they won't do it because it would have the risk of putting all the items into only a few hands, and they don't want such limitations.

 

[Wody]

that's not a risk, that's an economic issue. The same can happen in real life. What we are talking here, is MA artificially limiting items by basically handing them to a few people. And, that is something they never want to do. If they did, I know I'd never sell anything if I could rent it out without any risk. And, almost anybody would do that. Meaning, there would be no items to get for new players, and it would be the end of EU.

 

[Lugzan]

let's start comments from the end,

there are no good items coming to the hands of new players since VU 8.4 when basically all good old stuff was removed from the loot. a single drop or two in a year does not correlate to the growing masses wanting them and the chances looting something good are close to zero - let's face it, they are zero.

now, people are lending out stuff with the help of MA or without it. friends trust each other, some take collateral etc. the piece missing from the process is a controlled mechanism to make things officially and to work effectively against scammers and such. it would help MA and all the community to avoid MA's support or police cases. I still see no big risk behind it... I probably just do not get the point without numbers visualising the amount of risk =)


J.

that's not a risk, that's an economic issue. The same can happen in real life. What we are talking here, is MA artificially limiting items by basically handing them to a few people. And, that is something they never want to do. If they did, I know I'd never sell anything if I could rent it out without any risk. And, almost anybody would do that. Meaning, there would be no items to get for new players, and it would be the end of EU.

 

[Wody]

The difference is, right now, if you want an item, you can get it, it may cost you an arm and a leg, but at some price, somebody will sell.

Then, some rent system comes. I happen to have the only thingitem 1000, and you need this, to get to waringaliali. So, you rent it from me. I get PED, you have to repair it, so I don't pay anything, and all I have to do, is log in sometimes to take out all the PED I earned that month. Essentially, I get rich without even logging in. That is one problem.

And, in this new situation, there is no reason to ever want to sell, because the more you offer,the more desperate you must be, and the more the rent-price goes up, and remember, there can be only one thingitem 1000, and I have it, so you will never ever have it, because I use it to make money without any risk or having to do anything at all. Soon, you can't even rent it anymore. So, you don't want to play anymore.

 

[Nobatbbi]

Yea sure, rental terminal would be absolutely awesome. All time that I am not in game - all of my worthy items would be for rent thus maximizing my potential for making a few peds without doing anything.

And actually I might not even need to play at all. Seems to me I might want to have a "friend" make an other avatar, make a big depo and then the only thing that ava would do would be to seek out and purchase a uber item and then place on rental and log in once a month for withdrawls.

That's just a small scale example. As others have said, someone will buy as many of whatever items they can get and put them in rental. And we all know that every item has it's price. This is not sustainable and will serve to ruin the game. End of story.

 

[Lugzan]

ok,


the only difference I see in case of official renting would be that a certain amount of ped for collateral would not be needed. to rent a piece one only has to pay the rental fee (in advance most likely).

at this moment we do have people willing to rent out things and those who would be interested in those but can not afford to buy the same thing out or pay the collateral currently asked. basically, those who would like to rent something are aware that the owner will take a fee for it and they agree on the item owner profiting. similar pattern applies for either owning a LA (buy it) and collect the tax or hunting there and paying the tax. MA likes that for some reason aswell. moreover, as we know there is more than one of each item available (except a very few unique ones) the rental fee should be self balancing to lowest possible through more than one owner offering it, which should not be bad.

BO price of items available in rental system could drop on the other hand as people would rather pay rent instead of buying something, that is a thing MA does not wish however - they want deposits, the bigger the better =)

I still see more benefits for the rental system than minuses.

P.S. let's say, some person or group is buying everything (or at least most of the good items) and put them up for rental. now, how do you think it would affect economy if those items (top eco etc.) are not on the field actually generating turnover? yes, the second best in the line of eco would start acting more effectively. at least that is what I understand how eco as such currently works, correct me if it's else.


J.

 

[ulp]

lets just forget about the limit that i said before ...

it would be better if they had an increase in % on the cost for renting out depending on how many % they go over the max tt value of an item

so lets say renting out an item at 100% has a 5% cost and an item at 300% has a 20% cost to MA (doubbeling price @ each 100%) so that it wouldent be proffitable to rent out an item for 1000% of tt or something

just spawning ideas

 

[Wildman Alpha]

Good idea for common player to get hands on such items but most won't be able to use them properly anyway. This will never be automated by MA. Earn your 60 Agility and join the below;

H&R Circle

They are located in the penthouse of Twin Mall. If the penthouse is open yet?? For new guys Penthouse is 4th floor

We will just forget you even posted as this will never happen

 

[ulp]

We will just forget you even posted as this will never happen

that comment is just useless this isent a advertise for your own retal thread this is for game improvement so please just go away


ps ill do as you did forget that you ever posted

 

[CycoKick]

that comment is just useless this isent a advertise for your own retal thread this is for game improvement so please just go away

Look, its not his rental thread but the only very trusted rental service out there where U could rent without colleteral if u become a member.

A renting mechanism will NEVER be implemented by MindArk. They HAVE stated so. As IT WILL create a possible very dangerous situation for the market with monopolizing it. Not to mention is NOT in there intrestest for items to be used more. Rather have more items used less then few more.

Its just pissin against the wind this thread, and doesnt apply to this game. Its like saying I want to be able to use a MM with full eco and 0 skills aint gonna happen..

Comeone, try and come up with ideas that might actually be implemented and not stuff that is said it will not be implemented and then later cry that ur ideas werent used..