ROI of Deeds will be 25% or more

[LaraD]

MA says that they expect the ROI of the deeds to be 27%-30%.
If somebody buys a share for 1000 PED these 1000 PEDs are the Gross Revenue for the planet. MA takes 50 % of it, so 500 PEDs are left. These are splited equally between the PP (for calypso it is MA) and the deedholder. So the deedholder gets 250 PED back. These 250 PED are 25% of his initial investment. So 25% ROI are guarenteed.

So there are 2%-5% ROI left for MA to cover. Which translates into a measly 20-50 PED: That seems to be doable, it would be around 120k to 300k USD.

So i guess you all better buy your deeds now.

Disclaimer: I know that these calculations are wrong. But still the question behind it still holds true: The deed price is 750 PED, if the sale does count to the Gross Revenue. But does it?

 

[RobBuona]

$300K USD may not seem like a lot for a company, but it is for one that, based on its own financial reports, is always losing money.

And that's why I won't be buying any deeds. Plain and simple.

 

[remontoire]

MA says that they expect the ROI of the deeds to be 27%-30%.
If somebody buys a share for 1000 PED these 1000 PEDs are the Gross Revenue for the planet. MA takes 50 % of it, so 500 PEDs are left. These are splited equally between the PP (for calypso it is MA) and the deedholder. So the deedholder gets 250 PED back. These 250 PED are 25% of his initial investment. So 25% ROI are guarenteed.

The problem is, that the sale of teh deeds is not part of Planet Calypso gross revenue. And Mindark already said so, so there can be no doubt about it.

 

[LaraD]

The problem is, that the sale of teh deeds is not part of Planet Calypso gross revenue. And Mindark already said so, so there can be no doubt about it.

You are kidding, right? Such sales have always been a major part of the income calypso generated.

If the sale is not part of the Planet Partner Gross Revenue than Arkadia would have to give all the money from a land deed sale to MA? That can't be right.
What else is not included in the Gross Revenue?

 

[Om3n]

The problem is, that the sale of teh deeds is not part of Planet Calypso gross revenue. And Mindark already said so, so there can be no doubt about it.

I guess first off it's probably best to have some form of reference or link you could source so people believe you in the future.

Well technically it is part of their gross revenue, and no one can dispute that. if you sell something(in this situation) you profit from it plain and simple if you sell something from nothing there is profit.

The bigger thing to ask would be; will all the shares be sold by the time the system starts and will they include these pre-system sales be included in the payouts. There were all intended to be sold before the system starts. They're not giving you the last years income split with you, no reason to think you'd get a cut of the share cost.

Bottom line is it is a game and not the stock market. We're not some world elite planning the economic future. I bought the ones i have to support the game and to allow them to continue with development, bringing in new ideas, content, art etc as we've seen over the past few months already. If they wanted to pull up shop we wouldn't be seeing content and graphic updates from argos to water display on the HUD.

Any PEDs that go back into my card from this are sheer bonus and I'd be happy to see what MA brings about with it(our investments). Most of you should be thinking similarly but greed seems to be taking some and lack of communication from MA for others. If you want a chance for quick cash there is a real high risk stock market. People should be purchasing these cause they would like to support the game and get a small bonus out of it and keep their spent PEDs in an in game investment that may go up or down based on MA decisions.

Imo it will encourage (hopefully) more spending, new people, improvements, and a more positive outlook on the game and MA rather then some of the bashing you usually see around here. If that's the case i welcome the change and the ability to have been a part of it.

 

[billairboy]

You are kidding, right? Such sales have always been a major part of the income calypso generated.

If the sale is not part of the Planet Partner Gross Revenue than Arkadia would have to give all the money from a land deed sale to MA? That can't be right.
What else is not included in the Gross Revenue?

The sell of the plots are a revenue for the planet partner, not the planet, it's a diffrent. The company that owns Calypso, Arkadia and other planets can have revenues that are not a planet revenue.

 

[ermik]

do people really belive that the money made from deed sales will count as revenue and get paid out to deed holders?

lol

for the 1000000 time , its the stream of peds from daily decay that MA takes that will be split up an some will be returned to deed holders.

MA is doing this sale to survive for gods sake, not to give the sales money back.

what scares me is the fact that most ppl "invest" without any clue on what they just bought.

 

[remontoire]

You are kidding, right? Such sales have always been a major part of the income calypso generated.

If the sale is not part of the Planet Partner Gross Revenue than Arkadia would have to give all the money from a land deed sale to MA? That can't be right.
What else is not included in the Gross Revenue?

Why would I be kidding? Why would you not bother to actually read what Mindark posts about the deeds? Why would Arkadia have to give Mindark a share of anything they sell?

 

[Kombinator]

The sale of deeds is of course not part of the planet partner revenue, it is part of the planet owner revenue, which is MA. The analogy to Arkadia does not work, as in Arkadia the two are the same. Also if you look at MA's specific definition of gross revenue they provided it is clear this is not a part of it.

It would be so much better if people either understood a little about the process or did not post uninformed opinions.

 

[chevrons]

It is a puzzle, what can be Planet Partner Revenue, yet not be counted as Revenue of the Planet.

As MA as Developer get 50% of Planet Revenue, it would be expected that they would not wish to see much Revenue so classified, as they would not then get their cut, the Planet Partner would retain it all.

With Calypso, MA are on both sides, so they don't mind, but they would have to apply the same policies to all the planets equally.

Now, with the player deeds in existence, it becomes an important distinction.

Unless MA publish the PP accounting rules, one can only be sure that, if there is a large inflow of Ped, MA will find a way not to share it with the players. I fully expect that the deposits to pay for houses on the land deeds in 2013 won't be shared either.

 

[Om3n]

It is a puzzle, what can be Planet Partner Revenue, yet not be counted as Revenue of the Planet.

As MA as Developer get 50% of Planet Revenue, it would be expected that they would not wish to see much Revenue so classified, as they would not then get their cut, the Planet Partner would retain it all.

With Calypso, MA are on both sides, so they don't mind, but they would have to apply the same policies to all the planets equally.

Now, with the player deeds in existence, it becomes an important distinction.

Unless MA publish the PP accounting rules, one can only be sure that, if there is a large inflow of Ped, MA will find a way not to share it with the players. I fully expect that the deposits to pay for houses on the land deeds in 2013 won't be shared either.

Im just curious why you feel that something like new housing development wouldn't be considered part of the profit? I can understand a company not wanting to give away it's profits. I'm a small business owner myself and couldn't see myself giving customers money lol. Just trying to gauge your thoughts on this.

 

[ermik]

Im just curious why you feel that something like new housing development wouldn't be considered part of the profit? I can understand a company not wanting to give away it's profits. I'm a small business owner myself and couldn't see myself giving customers money lol. Just trying to gauge your thoughts on this.

because MA have already clearly stated that the revenue to be paid out and divided among the 60000 land lot deeds is coming from part of the decay stream generated when people interact with the planet calypso part of entropia universe. can it get more clear than that?

 

[Om3n]

because MA have already clearly stated that the revenue to be paid out and divided among the 60000 land lot deeds is coming from part of the decay stream generated when people interact with the planet calypso part of entropia universe. can it get more clear than that?

Was just asking, not trying to cheese you off. On that note though i dont think alot of things based around the deeds are clear judging the level of turbulence they have generated on the forums. Ive read through a Q&A on a couple sites as well as looked through the original posts. I would appreciate it if you could show me where they state it's part of the decay stream, i could have misread somewhere and would appreciate something i could take a look at and any other information i may have missed.

 

[RobBuona]

because MA have already clearly stated that the revenue to be paid out and divided among the 60000 land lot deeds is coming from part of the decay stream generated when people interact with the planet calypso part of entropia universe. can it get more clear than that?

Does that cut into our TT return? The nickel-and-diming cannot continue forever and I'm having trouble grasping whether this means our TT return from participating in professions will actually worsen.

 

[wizzszz]

MA says that they expect the ROI of the deeds to be 27%-30%.
If somebody buys a share for 1000 PED these 1000 PEDs are the Gross Revenue for the planet. MA takes 50 % of it, so 500 PEDs are left. These are splited equally between the PP (for calypso it is MA) and the deedholder. So the deedholder gets 250 PED back. These 250 PED are 25% of his initial investment. So 25% ROI are guarenteed.

So there are 2%-5% ROI left for MA to cover. Which translates into a measly 20-50 PED: That seems to be doable, it would be around 120k to 300k USD.

Your example sounds like people are giving 730 PED per share to MA as a gift...

The ROI is per year, not total...

 

[Menace]

If Calypso were ROCKIN' with depositing players they'd prolly pay out 30%/year ROI which is probably about as good as a shitty LA only Deeds dont require 150k PED at once to purchase......

Sales of the deeds however will NOT be part of the deed ROI.

Menace

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

based on its own financial reports, is always losing money.

According to Kim they have been having a positive cashflow for the last few months tho

You are kidding, right? Such sales have always been a major part of the income calypso generated.

Where is the source for that statement? I have never seen anything about it, apart from that I think I read it goes to testing and stuff?

Does that cut into our TT return? The nickel-and-diming cannot continue forever and I'm having trouble grasping whether this means our TT return from participating in professions will actually worsen.

The payout for deeds is coming from the revenue, which is calculated from what they get after paying out the loots and taking decay + some fees and such that they do not want to specify

 

[XeroX2]

If Calypso were ROCKIN' with depositing players they'd prolly pay out 30%/year ROI which is probably about as good as a shitty LA only Deeds dont require 150k PED at once to purchase......

The payout from Land Deeds does NOT require ANYONE to deposit. It is a small percentage of the total decay+other spendings of the Calypso participants. This also counts when they do these activities on other planets but at a lower percentage rate. From what I've read the ROI% should be equal to the shitty LAs yes.

 

[Joker]

so does;
auction fees?
decay?
tiering costs?
fuel burnt?
Hunting/Land tax? do we know for a fact that MA doesnt take a small % of non taxed lands?
i.e. 90% rule... 10% tax on customers... ( confirmed in some threads before... 90% returns etc )
or something like 10 ped an hour fee i have read about(this fee is hidden or something and just taken out/returned in loot ) these things i have read about in threads

what else could be "revenues" ?

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

You are kidding, right? Such sales have always been a major part of the income calypso generated.

By the way, found the answer to this (did not think about/remember it earlier):

Posted on behalf of Jan Welter Timkrans

One of the main reasons for introducing this new system was to finance a substantial marketing campaign for the Entropia Universe. We are committed to initiating a marketing campaign as soon as possibly at much larger scale then we have ever done before.

Q. How will the proceeds of the Land Lot deeds be used by MindArk?
A. The proceeds from the Land Lot deeds will help to finance a substantial Entropia Universe marketing campaign, along with further development of Entropia Universe and Planet Calypso.

what else could be "revenues" ?

I think this is the most exact explaination available at the moment:

Q. How is the Planet Partner Gross Revenue calculated?
A. Planet Partner Gross Revenue is calculated and paid by MindArk to the Planet Partner, and includes avatar activity on Planet Calypso, along with the activity of Calypso avatars in Space and on other Entropia Universe planets. Avatar activity includes deterioration of items, as well as various other fees and avatar activities.

I wouldn't expect to get to know more than that

 

[XeroX2]

I wouldn't expect to get to know more than that

Yes and I don't think we need to know more. MindArk can not do any trickery here because this system will be available to other PPs aswell. Thus the deed holders WILL get the 50% of the PPs revenue they are entitled to get. So I don't see a problem with that information really... it will obviously be the same for every planet. I mean we can only start to make guesses about ROI on december 5th. Really relevant guesses will only be possible in 1 year from that time. So I would not make any guesses based on what may or may not be a revenue since they would be futile anyway.

 

[RobBuona]

How is the Planet Partner Gross Revenue calculated?
A. Planet Partner Gross Revenue is calculated and paid by MindArk to the Planet Partner, and includes avatar activity on Planet Calypso, along with the activity of Calypso avatars in Space and on other Entropia Universe planets. Avatar activity includes deterioration of items, as well as various other fees and avatar activities.

Unless I'm not understanding correctly...it sounds to me like the cost of play will go up for those not owning deeds.

EDIT: I guess looking at this again, I can see how people participating in professions would be unaffected, since revenue is taken out of what is already taken from the players. I definitely hope that is the case. And I know this is a bit off topic, but I don't plan on owning any deeds. I guess the problem for me is that I have a problem seeing MA cut down its profits in order to do something like this. But we'll see.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Unless I'm not understanding correctly...it sounds to me like the cost of play will go up for those not owning deeds.

Why? They will still take revenue the same way they always have, only half of it will go to the deedholders instead of to the company...

 

[RobBuona]

Why? They will still take revenue the same way they always have, only half of it will go to the deedholders instead of to the company...

See my edit on that post.

 

[XeroX2]

Unless I'm not understanding correctly...it sounds to me like the cost of play will go up for those not owning deeds.

EDIT: Sorry, I guess that is a bit off topic, but I don't plan on owning any deeds.

yes it is off topic and yes you are not understanding correctly...
25% of the total revenue that is generated by Calypso will be paid to the deed holders. This revenue is calculated from the participiants DECAY not from their LOOT!!!! So the deed holders are not getting their money from the "revenue" of the players but of the PP! How hard is it to understand the answer that was clearly given in the QA?!? lol

EDIT: ok seems you edited that post while I was writing this up

 

[millstreet2]

Unless I'm not understanding correctly...it sounds to me like the cost of play will go up for those not owning deeds.

If you go to the auction house with 10k peds today, and 10k peds last month, your paying much less today.

The cost of play went down so far in this scenario. If you deposit money you can buy more items for the same PED.

 

[Sircus]

If the sale is not part of the Planet Partner Gross Revenue than Arkadia would have to give all the money from a land deed sale to MA? That can't be right.

What brilliant foresight! But you have a logic error here. The PP will take the sales money from the bonds and not share it with the bonds they sell (50% of it, 3M in this case) Though if u wanna get technical it should be FPC/AP subsidary or whatever that is selling them now. Keeping a 50% of the sales profit and another 50% would go to MA. (FPC might have a special profit sharing system with MA since they broke off. Hard to know)

For clarification they should just say that Sales from PP/MA is not counted in the GR that we will splitt.
Yes I know in the FAQ they answered what they will base the GR on but they could simply add this statement to clarify.

 

[billairboy]

EDIT: I guess looking at this again, I can see how people participating in professions would be unaffected, since revenue is taken out of what is already taken from the players. I definitely hope that is the case. And I know this is a bit off topic, but I don't plan on owning any deeds. I guess the problem for me is that I have a problem seeing MA cut down its profits in order to do something like this. But we'll see.

It could also be that MA knows that with more planets launching, like Cyrene, the arabic planet and Arkadia getting better, the player base will both grow and spread between more planets. Their depenend on the revenue from players on Calypso will decrease. Hopefuly the new planets will be able to create more players and grow the playerbase, and not only spread the playerbase on more planets.

 

[ermik]

If you go to the auction house with 10k peds today, and 10k peds last month, your paying much less today.

The cost of play went down so far in this scenario. If you deposit money you can buy more items for the same PED.

markup on items are far from what we commonly refer to as "cost to play", markup is player driven.

what he means is tt return , he thinks it must get worse since MA still want their cut untouched.

but i beg to differ, MA have always taken a stream of decay from eu , and that will stay the same, but with deeds they will forward some of it back to the playerbase having deeds.

what MA gain from this is simple, they survive as a company, because hopefully the playerbase give them the 6 Million USD that SEE failed to do.

if we as players gain from it?, yes ofcourse since the deed holders get a ROI on their deeds.

and since MA hopefully survive as a company, keeping entropia universe open, we gain from it too because our avatars and stuff would not vanish overnight.

so buying deeds is a good thing, i just sometimes question if people know the motives and reasons for what they do before doing it.

and as long as there will be 1k avalible in au, price will drop slowly on the player sold deeds, but hopefully many will buy the MA sold ones, as i said its about MA´s future, and in that we all have an interest.

cheers

ermik

 

[LaraD]

do people really belive that the money made from deed sales will count as revenue and get paid out to deed holders?

Yes, because otherwise the term Gross Revenue does not apply. The planet or however you'll call it isn't a legal entity and thus can't have any form of Gross Revenue. The only entities that are legal and there can have a Gros Revenue are the Planet Partner or MA. It's false advertisement on MA's side.