Should Logoff in space be removed?

[DanTheManKae]

Except for the party getting robbed. Not so economical satisfactionary for them.

People aren't getting it. The person risking the loot would be getting more ped at the other end. With risk involved ARK only stackables would go for more on caly than ARK. But with the ms log out problem, there is no risk so no extra reward. Therefor people using they're brains to get to the other end safe would get more ped, and pirates would be looting all the morons. Unfortunately most people are morons and hate that idea

 

[DanTheManKae]

BTW I'm not saying if someone's power or internet goes out they should just be left logged on floating in space for 24 hours, but if a mother ship is blown up anyone on it logged off or on should pop out and be lootable for 2 minutes or so. And when you log off in space and in a quad or sleip, your avatar should float for a couple minutes or so.

 

[KijkkiJikki]

People aren't getting it. The person risking the loot would be getting more ped at the other end. With risk involved ARK only stackables would go for more on caly than ARK. But with the ms log out problem, there is no risk so no extra reward. Therefor people using they're brains to get to the other end safe would get more ped, and pirates would be looting all the morons. Unfortunately most people are morons and hate that idea

You don't get it.

It's not all about trading. I'm not a trader. I hunt and I craft. If I go and do missions on caly or an event and get loot, chances are I don't get big enough stacks to put all the loot on auction. So my choice is:
1. Leave in storage on planet tying up ped
2. TT it forgoing MU = less peds
3. Risk the trip to my home planet to use the loot in my crafting or combine into stacks for auction.
4. Pay extra for safe MS trip = less peds.

There's no benefit for me in the current situation.

Yes I am smart about the risks I take.

And just because someone is stupid (if in fact that is what is going on - you can also be unlucky) doesnt mean they deserve to have their property stolen.

Regards,
KikkiJikki

 

[DanTheManKae]

You don't get it.

It's not all about trading. I'm not a trader. I hunt and I craft. If I go and do missions on caly or an event and get loot, chances are I don't get big enough stacks to put all the loot on auction. So my choice is:
1. Leave in storage on planet tying up ped
2. TT it forgoing MU = less peds
3. Risk the trip to my home planet to use the loot in my crafting or combine into stacks for auction.
4. Pay extra for safe MS trip = less peds.

There's no benefit for me in the current situation.

Yes I am smart about the risks I take.

And just because someone is stupid (if in fact that is what is going on - you can also be unlucky) doesnt mean they deserve to have their property stolen.

Regards,
KikkiJikki

1. it's not about trading, it's about fairness, lootable should be lootable for all and not just some

2. Entering a lootable pvp zone by your own free will and getting looted is not "getting robbed". So there is no crime going on here, as some of you love to cry.

3. If you don't like it simple solution, stay on 1 planet or don't log on EU, problem solved. When Columbus went exploring to discover the new world he took a risk. IMO it's more realistic that you can be killed, as there are still pirates in the ocean to this day.

 

[KijkkiJikki]

Same ol bs response.

you argue that the risk taker gets economic beneifit and when I explain how thats not the case, you change tack and talk about fairness. There is no scenario here in which having your property forcibly removed is fair.

And then u argue I should just stay on one planet or not play. Well that is hardly good for the game. And in any case you don't get to say how I play. Just like I dont get to dictate that wannabe pirates should go play Eve instead.

You talk about the real world example of pirates. A very slippery slope. Clearly lootable pvp exists in the real world in the form of piracy and other activities. People can choose whether or not to travel up the coast of africa or other pirate zones and when the pirates nab them we can say that was a pretty dumb choice but it was still robbery.

I understand you arguements. I get it. I just don't agree with it. And if there are legal ways that people can avoid being pirated I say go for it. If MA determines that some activity is an exploit then thats the time to change strategy.

 

[DanTheManKae]

Same ol bs response.

you argue that the risk taker gets economic beneifit and when I explain how thats not the case, you change tack and talk about fairness. There is no scenario here in which having your property forcibly removed is fair.

And then u argue I should just stay on one planet or not play. Well that is hardly good for the game. And in any case you don't get to say how I play. Just like I dont get to dictate that wannabe pirates should go play Eve instead.

You talk about the real world example of pirates. A very slippery slope. Clearly lootable pvp exists in the real world in the form of piracy and other activities. People can choose whether or not to travel up the coast of africa or other pirate zones and when the pirates nab them we can say that was a pretty dumb choice but it was still robbery.

I understand you arguements. I get it. I just don't agree with it. And if there are legal ways that people can avoid being pirated I say go for it. If MA determines that some activity is an exploit then thats the time to change strategy.

The risk taker does get economic benefit if the risk is the same for EVERYONE. The reason it doesnt pay currently is because it's only risky for the people flying in quads or sleipnirs. Also in real life laws exist against piracy, in EU it's part of the game.

 

[Fifth]

Looks like quite a lot of people can't understand the concept of different fluctuating markets and how you can make profit by moving resources between them. Wonderful, more chances for profit for the smarter folks!


Love the requirement to carry as much stackables as you will be able to loot. It would instantly create a new profession - a pirate hunter. Fly around hunting down the red triangles, make profit AND everybody loves you: win/win.

Although, there might not be much left to loot, pirates would hunt each other down before anyone else can even get to space.

If all these changes would be implemented, it will hit piracy, it may hit so hard that it could completely disappear. Not good. Have to do something to balance it out. A small logoff delay (2-3 minutes) in space seems fair. I'm not a pirate, i'm the prey up there but i still think it would be a fair game.

 

[John B Knight]

Looks like quite a lot of people can't understand the concept of different fluctuating markets and how you can make profit by moving resources between them. Wonderful, more chances for profit for the smarter folks!


Love the requirement to carry as much stackables as you will be able to loot. It would instantly create a new profession - a pirate hunter. Fly around hunting down the red triangles, make profit AND everybody loves you: win/win.

Although, there might not be much left to loot, pirates would hunt each other down before anyone else can even get to space.

If all these changes would be implemented, it will hit piracy, it may hit so hard that it could completely disappear. Not good. Have to do something to balance it out. A small logoff delay (2-3 minutes) in space seems fair. I'm not a pirate, i'm the prey up there but i still think it would be a fair game.

so tell me what do 2-3 min change in the total picture ? The higher the si of motherships gets the more time a small team of pirates will need to bring it down while attacking out of safety - people here really seem to miss the point - motherships current si values are only a fraction of what they once will be in a few years from now - you plea for a fix to a symptom whereas quads bringing down upgraded motherships all by themself was never intended from the get go. The day when motherships with a few hundred k si traveling space will be the standard people will realize how useless this discussion was from the very start.
There is different classes of ships for a reason - so people can duke it out on different levels of gameplay - while we are in the growth phase there for sure is more overlapping possibilities but the point will come when you just dont consider attacking a mothership if you cant back up your attack with another larger spacevessel.
All parties that want loot should be forced to carry loot in the same range they look for it, thats what makes pvp interesting - when there is something to gain for everyone.
Your argument that this would kill piracy is not logic, its a fact throughout the universe that players go where they can have a gain actually there would be alot more pvp going on in space if everyone would have to carry loot if wanting to loot something.

 

[dr3w]

All parties that want loot should be forced to carry loot in the same range they look for it, thats what makes pvp interesting - when there is something to gain for everyone.

This.This.This.

 

[.Stagger]

so tell me what do 2-3 min change in the total picture ? The higher the si of motherships gets the more time a small team of pirates will need to bring it down while attacking out of safety - people here really seem to miss the point - motherships current si values are only a fraction of what they once will be in a few years from now - you plea for a fix to a symptom whereas quads bringing down upgraded motherships all by themself was never intended from the get go.

this is bullshit,just because you, john, payed thousands of dollars for your ship. doesn't mean that a group of people with a ship that has less value cannot bring you down.

besides haven't you seen star-wars? deathstar got killed by a quadwing interceptor..
thats a small ship against an entire star..
you should stop feeling allmighty, because your definatly far from that.
We have proven that fact, and you got so angry that you started to threaten us with the fact that you are already saving up for 2 extra motherships just to hunt us pirates down.

The day when motherships with a few hundred k si traveling space will be the standard people will realize how useless this discussion was from the very start.
There is different classes of ships for a reason - so people can duke it out on different levels of gameplay - while we are in the growth phase there for sure is more overlapping possibilities but the point will come when you just dont consider attacking a mothership if you cant back up your attack with another larger spacevessel.

so just because this discussion does not reach your ammount of money on your bank account,
and you think rich people will have a diffrent kind of gameplay at higher level?
then still.. this discussion is valid for the people that aren't so wealthy in real life, and care about gameplay for the regular players.

All parties that want loot should be forced to carry loot in the same range they look for it, thats what makes pvp interesting - when there is something to gain for everyone.
Your argument that this would kill piracy is not logic, its a fact throughout the universe that players go where they can have a gain actually there would be alot more pvp going on in space if everyone would have to carry loot if wanting to loot something.

the only thing you care about is making space as profitable as you can for your own purposes.
this idea you keep linking to "improve piracy",
is definatly not going to work.

it is mearly just another reason to make piracy even harder than it is.
a.k.a changing the subject to make sure the original idea goes up in smoke..
that ain't gonna work.

back on topic:
Remove logoff in space, it ruins the gameplay and market oppertunities.

 

[remontoire]

Why is this thread even going on? The balance - more than 4:1 ratio, has been stable for ages, and it is rather unlikely to go through a big change, especially not for the arguments in this thread.

 

[Shadowsong]

...besides haven't you seen star-wars? deathstar got killed by a quadwing interceptor..
thats a small ship against an entire star..
....

Okay, let's pretend Star Wars is solid technical reference material, just for kicks -

1. The pilot of that particular interceptor had a fleet of others backing him up, most of whom died without making the slightest impact on the target (apart from charred stains on the paintwork).

2. That interceptor would have been toast without help from a much larger ship (Millenium Falcon) at exactly the right moment.

3. The pilot was imbued with inherent skills that were shared by less than a handful of other individuals in the entire universe.

Maybe MA should enable space PvP only for those avatars who can levitate a quad at swamp camp while standing on their heads.


I think the suggestion that pirates can only loot as much as they risk themselves is a damn fine idea. Want to loot 50ped, then carry 50ped lootable. If you're only there for the *ahem* "thrill of combat", then carry nothing, loot nothing, but be happy with your uber combat results.

 

[aia]

I did vote yes on the poll though. Logging out seems like an exploit to me.

When I log out on a mothership it's because it's leaving a planet at a late time of day, and I need to get some sleep before getting up next morning - not because I'm carrying stackables. I usaully log back in next day when the mothership is at spacestation and then I fly down to planet (=not safe) (as I'm too cheap to pay 7 ped TP fee).

As for the attack vs deathstar, it's another thing: The attack was done by first removing the protective forcefield (attacking the base on the planet), and then following a path to attack a weak spot.
Motherships kind'a have a weak spot (=the back), but nothing spot where a one-hit would blow up the ship - even reactor requires lots of hits to rupture. And motherships aren't surrounded by a forcefield provided from a point outside the forcefield which is possible to make an assault on without having to deal with the forcefield itself.
Though a passenger on a MS could work as a spy for pirates (telling where MS is) and can launch from hangar with a quadwing and attack, a passenger can't hide any bomb inside to blow a critical part up either.

 

[John B Knight]

Okay, let's pretend Star Wars is solid technical reference material, just for kicks -

1. The pilot of that particular interceptor had a fleet of others backing him up, most of whom died without making the slightest impact on the target (apart from charred stains on the paintwork).

2. That interceptor would have been toast without help from a much larger ship (Millenium Falcon) at exactly the right moment.

3. The pilot was imbued with inherent skills that were shared by less than a handful of other individuals in the entire universe.

Maybe MA should enable space PvP only for those avatars who can levitate a quad at swamp camp while standing on their heads.


I think the suggestion that pirates can only loot as much as they risk themselves is a damn fine idea. Want to loot 50ped, then carry 50ped lootable. If you're only there for the *ahem* "thrill of combat", then carry nothing, loot nothing, but be happy with your uber combat results.

Exactly this, very well put - some days i just love how easy and clear one can plug apart stagger's logic - think i dont need to add any more to that

 

[DanTheManKae]

Exactly this, very well put - some days i just love how easy and clear one can plug apart stagger's logic - think i dont need to add any more to that

IMO EU is just full of softies that hate the idea of pvp. Lootable pvp is good for the econamy, just sucks that people like you help others exploit it by logging off while in space till safe at the other end. Your and others MS is a big part of the log off problem, not as much quads as you can at least wait for them to log back in.

 

[Ratez]

IMO EU is just full of softies that hate the idea of pvp. Lootable pvp is good for the econamy, just sucks that people like you help others exploit it by logging off while in space till safe at the other end. Your and others MS is a big part of the log off problem, not as much quads as you can at least wait for them to log back in.

If you're not a softie then I am sure you are up for the idea that pirates should have everything lootable in equal with who they are trying to loot. Including their quad and its equips.

 

[aia]

IMO EU is just full of softies that hate the idea of pvp.

I don't hate the idea with pvp, but I hate having to spend my time with something I don't want to spend my time with.

One of my favoritite huntinggrounds acutally is in pvp - orange/non-lootable pvp though so it rarely happens someone comes for pk:ing. If I would get killed (typically if I get swarmed by mobs I'm sort'a careless lol) I can use a normal low-end TP-chip and be back from revival in one jump.

 

[slasha]

Okay, let's pretend Star Wars is solid technical reference material, just for kicks -

1. The pilot of that particular interceptor had a fleet of others backing him up, most of whom died without making the slightest impact on the target (apart from charred stains on the paintwork).

2. That interceptor would have been toast without help from a much larger ship (Millenium Falcon) at exactly the right moment.

3. The pilot was imbued with inherent skills that were shared by less than a handful of other individuals in the entire universe.

Maybe MA should enable space PvP only for those avatars who can levitate a quad at swamp camp while standing on their heads.


I think the suggestion that pirates can only loot as much as they risk themselves is a damn fine idea. Want to loot 50ped, then carry 50ped lootable. If you're only there for the *ahem* "thrill of combat", then carry nothing, loot nothing, but be happy with your uber combat results.

This is actualy a v good suggestion, and just think all those juicy pirates flying about , with double loot if they

just killed

 

[.Stagger]

If you're not a softie then I am sure you are up for the idea that pirates should have everything lootable in equal with who they are trying to loot. Including their quad and its equips.

i agree with this one,
please make lootable pvp in a way where people will lose everything they carry,
including their ship and quad.

this is the most honest and realistic way for someone to die in space.

bring it on

[quoted shadowsong quoted message] This is actualy a v good suggestion, and just think all those juicy pirates flying about , with double loot if they

just killed

no it's actually a bullshit reason to drift away from the main issue we're facing here.
which is people logging off with everything they have on em.
you are all trying to rob customers from motherships this way,
while you are all employed at a mothership to make sure you can travel people up and down
planets in a safe way.

most of you know that there is a fault in the system,
especially the traders among you who as we speak make lots of money by bypassing
the official services that were supposed to make a space economy work.

piracy at this point has a 0% effect on the market, because everyone can bypass us anyway using the tricks.
motherships at this point are stealing all the jobs, being silent about it, and even turning it into letting noobs pay for access to their ship.. so that they can spend their own peds defending it.
while the mothership owner and a small fraction of his trusted crew will get a share of the peds.
this is exactly what is happening at this point.

 

[DaisyColdFinger]

Rescue Pod

Rescue Pod

All participants will find in their inventory a item named "Rescue Pod" This pod cannot be spawned manually, but will become active in space only when a user has experienced a disconnect or logout in open space at which point the user will revive on the spot in said rescue pod.

A preprogrammed homing device which will engage a auto pilot which will then at a slow speed proceed to fly the occupant to the nearest safe station or mothership where the memberis on the guest list. The pod can be steered and recalled upon exit, only to be deployed again on disconnect or logout in a place where the mothership or vehicle the occupant was in at the time is no longer present (up to a few meters away).

Regards

DCF Dev "aka" Wishful Thinking

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

As for the attack vs deathstar, it's another thing: The attack was done by first removing the protective forcefield (attacking the base on the planet), and then following a path to attack a weak spot.

That was the second Death Star, the first they just shot a missile down an exhaust port (something they thought impossible and were gonna correct in the building of the second Death Star had they been able to finish it)



Not really a good example when comparing it to Mothership vs. Quad-Wing to be honest, but there is another Star Wars example that works: Starfighter squadrons like Wraith Squadron or Rogue Squadron were often used against massive capital ships since they could move fast enough for the capital ship gunners not to hit them that often (since they would have problems tracing such a fast ship as an X-wing or an A-wing interceptor) and therefore get close enough to accurately hit the capital ship's weak spots.

In my opinion it would be cool if they did something like that in Entropia, but it would require quite a bit of development. They would have to specify weak spots that are hard to hit from a distance and requires considerable skill to hit even when close, add shields that have to be taken down by destroying the shield generator, increase the range and efficency of the mothership weapons, improve manuverability of the ships, especially smaller ones, etc.

 

[Neil Stockton]

piracy at this point has a 0% effect on the market, because everyone can bypass us anyway using the tricks.
motherships at this point are stealing all the jobs, being silent about it, and even turning it into letting noobs pay for access to their ship.. so that they can spend their own peds defending it.
while the mothership owner and a small fraction of his trusted crew will get a share of the peds.
this is exactly what is happening at this point.

You have no idea what you're talking about... possibly because you haven't been allowed on any motherships recently.

Since you seem to be so concerned about the welfare of "noobs", why not give back some of their loot? Yeah, I didn't think so.

 

[Norway]

Pirates should have to

Carry the samme ammount of loot as they manage to loot of others...Never get more loot then what they them self carry in there own inventory...This way it would be fair since pirates risk NOTHING!
Stagger cry like a spoild child over the fact he cant get it his way and people log of so he cant steal there stuff and yet he him self risk nothing at all but the ammo he waste and i hope he waste shitloads...For this to be fair MA should make it so those pirates with no loot on them self that they would risk would get nothing from the one they shoot down Then we would be talking fair...but im pretty sure Stagger would cry about that also...

 

[Aeris_is_back]

Carry the samme ammount of loot as they manage to loot of others...Never get more loot then what they them self carry in there own inventory...This way it would be fair since pirates risk NOTHING!
Stagger cry like a spoild child over the fact he cant get it his way and people log of so he cant steal there stuff and yet he him self risk nothing at all but the ammo he waste and i hope he waste shitloads...For this to be fair MA should make it so those pirates with no loot on them self that they would risk would get nothing from the one they shoot down Then we would be talking fair...but im pretty sure Stagger would cry about that also...

we risk a lot I have to spend just under 10 ped to send your ass back and most of the time people do not carry any loot. Ill burn 300 ped easy after a few hours and not see more then 50 ped in loot. and we do carry loot often from hunting mobs in space and from randoms we have shot down. most of us don't run back to a storage term every time we have a few hundred ped on us. hell its rare I repair my quad if I am only down 30%. grow a pair turn around and fight back. or did you just get 4 shot in a vtol and somebody did stole ya sweat bottles....

 

[RickEngland]

I would say your bread and butter Stagger is not attempting to shoot down privateers startfinders or motherships, but the odd quad (L) or VTOL (L) travelling between planets.

With so many of the big ships increasing their SI, its likely it will become uneconomical to try and loot them anyway. Not to mention the tt terminal on board can be used if it was looking a bit risky regardless if those players where online or not.

I think if pirates really want to make some headway they need to get a Mothership. It is interesting though that the fear of pirates has created a transportation business for many, and I think it is fair to say that some compound that fear more to generate more business.

Maybe it is time for MA to bring in the next set of ships, cruisers, battleships etc, although the real battle will only commence once those on the darkside acquire such toys. even though you have an unlimited Quad, its not really a formidable weapon to really compete.

I hunt a lot in space with my little quad(L), and I should list my very long list of space globals to prove there is loot to be looted. I must of got home at least 20 fuses in the last month, and didnt get robbed for one of them (smiles)

But lets face it most pirates are looking for poor victims and noobs to rob just outside planets.. Kind of a sad existence really, but as I say you do your job for the space business.

COME AND FIND ME!!!!!!

LOL

Rick

 

[Norway]

Why should i?

we risk a lot I have to spend just under 10 ped to send your ass back and most of the time people do not carry any loot. Ill burn 300 ped easy after a few hours and not see more then 50 ped in loot. and we do carry loot often from hunting mobs in space and from randoms we have shot down. most of us don't run back to a storage term every time we have a few hundred ped on us. hell its rare I repair my quad if I am only down 30%. grow a pair turn around and fight back. or did you just get 4 shot in a vtol and somebody did stole ya sweat bottles....

Why should i fight you back when i KNOW for a FACT all you do is waste your ped and get nothing i return??Im actually LOVING the fact that you lose peds giving my quad a few pec of damage....You guys risk alot??lol you risk NOTHINTG...In yout TWISTED world you risk anything....If thiefs like you did risk the same as me then maybe i would consider it But as of now you dont...And i always run empty when im in the Quad and if i got something to bring with me i always use a MS As most do.

 

[Fifth]

Why should i fight you back when i KNOW for a FACT all you do is waste your ped and get nothing i return??Im actually LOVING the fact that you lose peds giving my quad a few pec of damage....You guys risk alot??lol you risk NOTHINTG...In yout TWISTED world you risk anything....If thiefs like you did risk the same as me then maybe i would consider it But as of now you dont...And i always run empty when im in the Quad and if i got something to bring with me i always use a MS As most do.

Let's do a little magical mirror trick. I will now turn it around so it reads as a statement made by pirates:

• Why should i fight when i KNOW for a FACT all you do is waste your ped and get nothing i return?
• You guys risk alot??lol you risk NOTHINTG...
• In yout TWISTED world you risk anything...
• i always run empty when im in the Quad.

Nothing changed, every little detail still works.
Forum fighters...

 

[Norway]

Let's do a little magical mirror trick. I will now turn it around so it reads as a statement made by pirates:

• Why should i fight when i KNOW for a FACT all you do is waste your ped and get nothing i return?
• You guys risk alot??lol you risk NOTHINTG...
• In yout TWISTED world you risk anything...
• i always run empty when im in the Quad.

Nothing changed, every little detail still works.
Forum fighters...

lol yes ingame thieves try to get sympati cause they get nothing when they try to rob people is just to idiotic and stupid...Did anyone force them to play like this?Most dont even like the fact that space is lootable... Me for 1 is HAPPY to read that he maybe with in a few hours waste 300 ped and if lucky get 50 ped in loot..Hope he keep on doing so...Keep on logging of hehe annoy the fuck out those thieves

 

[RickEngland]

As long as either party inflicts some damage, then I'm sure it goes towards their loot payout. Although if you get robbed for peds, that loss might not be compensated later. Even if it was, I don't think MA would admit it.

So point is the pirate knows they will be compensated later for damage done, either from loot from other avatars or from some other honest activity such as hunting mobs. I say the risk is pretty small for pirates, missed shots though might not be compensated.

No doubt opened a can of worms here, the debate will roll on. All based on the theory that ANY damage inflicted builds loot over time. That is not new, I'm sure all those that spend 1000's peds in the ring would verify it.

Rick

ps: I like to hunt space mobs not people.

 

[mastermesh]

As long as either party inflicts some damage, then I'm sure it goes towards their loot payout. .

Uh, personal loot pool does not exist...