FYI: Skillgain mining, how it's done fully explained

[Profit]

Not even going to try and read the whole thread. Legions explainations are pretty close to what I have come up with a few exceptions.

I did most of my skills testing on CND. By using existing claim markers left by other miners and by the process of elimination finding my own claims I have come up with a somewhat good idea of what they mean. I ran into another miner up there on my last trip and was chatting him about this and guided him right to a claim by they skills he got. Granted there needs to be something there to find in the first place and no amount of claims are going to turn you a profit if they are all VI on CND but increasing your hitrate can turn the odds in your favor. Time and place are also a factor but that is a whole other subject

Now....I think all skills when mining have directional and distance qualities. I believe we do not get skills on claims that are directly in our path with the exception of Perception and sometimes Mineral Sense(still working on this one) but for the most part all the other skills are saying "if you keep going N you aint going to find shit"

On CND I love getting Geology skill gains. When I get these I can find the claim more times than not. I have a pretty good hitrate with survey and prospecting gains too. Mineral Sense is very similar to Survey/Pros but the claim is closer.

Like Legion says, try it.

How would you explain globals with skills on drop if what I've highlighted is true?

 

[raeky]

From the chip-in data that we use to know what ratios we should chip-in, and by analysis of players who haven't chipped in of their skill ratios, we know for a fact that skills come in a specific proportion. Meaning that you only will get say 5% of one skill and 50% of another, and in the long run if you checked the ratios they would still hold out to be about that.

If skills are not random, but assigned by a pre-defined proportion, how in the world could they mean anything?

The only way skills could mean anything is if they where truly assigned in an non-proportional basis. So two players will not have the same % of each class of skill for a profession, which we know they do.

You all who think this works are ignoring some simple evidence that proves it doesn't. The community as a majority believes in that ratio for chip-in. And that ratio completely destroys skills mean something theory. They're not compatible.

 

[Profit]

From the chip-in data that we use to know what ratios we should chip-in, and by analysis of players who haven't chipped in of their skill ratios, we know for a fact that skills come in a specific proportion. Meaning that you only will get say 5% of one skill and 50% of another, and in the long run if you checked the ratios they would still hold out to be about that.

If skills are not random, but assigned by a pre-defined proportion, how in the world could they mean anything?

The only way skills could mean anything is if they where truly assigned in an non-proportional basis. So two players will not have the same % of each class of skill for a profession, which we know they do.

You all who think this works are ignoring some simple evidence that proves it doesn't. The community as a majority believes in that ratio for chip-in. And that ratio completely destroys skills mean something theory. They're not compatible.

Encore, ENCORE!

 

[kyleen]

ahh..you finally revealed your "mining-skillgain-theory"...

read alot of threads with hints from you...

i'll give it a try

but how should an equivalent theoy work in crafting? moving the quant-qual-bar?

hmmm i think if u gain engineering while crafting u need to switch towns, other skill gains switch crafting machine. etc.

 

[Legion]

turns out that legion was actully right on the hunting perception gains.. works for me at least..

now for a question... could perception gained by mining mean that a MOB nearby got something good? so that you can actually be sure if you need to go drop a bomb or shoot the mobs?

I'm not sure, but as it is a general skill it sure well could i guess.

I still haven't had a chance to do my homework - but I wanted to chime in on a couple of comments .



Legion...

We need documentation, dude! We need to see the coords where you get the skillgains and the coords where you get the claims! (With some commentary on what you did in response to the skills to get to the claims.)



There are many in this thread on both sides and reading it all is important.

And I'm not bashing (if you'd read your +reps, which are PRIVATE, you'd know that) but for honest vetting of your theory we need to be careful about what we say is fact and what we say is guessing.

One person that I know can make it work a LOT but is loathe to go public. This person, as do I, uses skillgains a bit differently than you but for fear of protecting their knowledge or fear of being labeled a kook they won't come forward.

Just to make it clear, because some of you may know of my acquaintance with him... it's not Sircus; he thinks this is all hogwash. I respect Sircus for what he believes and the person above for their knowledge also.

My soc is sometimes amazed at the returns I get (but not since the last VU btw ) but I can only make it work sometimes and really only by accident -- that makes it look like it's all random and nonsense!

So my word is worthless. As Raeky says, I am young and haven't been around long. We need you [and the others... who might be ] to be more open about the details so that -- even if you are mistaken about some part of it we can find out why and correct it for a better understanding overall.

So to all - reading this whole thread is important so that we can get a full-orbed understanding of this issue!

Yep i know, i'll try to document and also i know you aint bashing but a lot are

 

[sakuraqueen]

Many question in my mind right now.......

1. Is it possible that 2 person will get same skillgain in same spot when mining at the same time?

2. If I am at a center of a vein of straight line, let's say the predetermined claims are be 100m north and another one is south, and im facing north, will I get both geo and CGA for the 2 claims? Should I mine both south and north or just go in a definite line, no turn back?

I dont unlock CGA yet so dunno

3. Is it better to bomb 80 metres apart or 110 metres apart?

4. What's the skillgain tips for crafting as u said in OP?

I still need some theory about crafting and hunting from u though.

 

[Waheed]

Came to think of something... If your theory is correct, that means that more than one person dropping a bomb at the same place should get the same skillgains correct ?

Now that would be a pretty easy way to test it, take 20 ppl and let them drop a bomb in the same location - If your theory is correct then at least the greater part of them should get the same skillgain - Or do you have an excuse for this one as well if they do not get the same skills ?

 

[Legion]

Many question in my mind right now.......

1. Is it possible that 2 person will get same skillgain in same spot when mining at the same time?

2. If I am at a center of a vein of straight line, let's say the predetermined claims are be 100m north and another one is south, and im facing north, will I get both geo and CGA for the 2 claims? Should I mine both south and north or just go in a definite line, no turn back?

I dont unlock CGA yet so dunno

3. Is it better to bomb 80 metres apart or 110 metres apart?

4. What's the skillgain tips for crafting as u said in OP?

I still need some theory about crafting and hunting from u though.

1. yes i think so.
2. not sure, i think you will get the one that is closest but sure i dont see why you could not get both, i've had it happen i think, not 100% on it though. but i know i've had cga, and surv for instance.
3. if ur mining a vein, 80m as claims seem to be 75-80m apart and i most often end up with the claim withing 5-10m from me.
4. havent really figured it out, but look at what skills u have from the start and try to correlate them with the unlock levels etc ie bpc should probabaly mean the same as cga etc.

Came to think of something... If your theory is correct, that means that more than one person dropping a bomb at the same place should get the same skillgains correct ?

Now that would be a pretty easy way to test it, take 20 ppl and let them drop a bomb in the same location - If your theory is correct then at least the greater part of them should get the same skillgain - Or do you have an excuse for this one as well if they do not get the same skills ?

Yes i think that could be done never tested it though. but yes there could be other reasons aswell why it might not work. We dont know exactly how the sysem works, ie the spawning of stuff, it could be personal and if that is the case then this test might not prove anything.

However i have seen that right after i got an intgain someone else came running the other direction and voila there went the global so seems he did find the deposit i saw.

 

[kalanen]

You all who think this works are ignoring some simple evidence that proves it doesn't. The community as a majority believes in that ratio for chip-in. And that ratio completely destroys skills mean something theory. They're not compatible.

They are if skillgain has no meaning but is a prequisite.

IMO explicit "meaning" of skillgain is bullshit, but sure there's a connection (strong enough for someone to call it meaning).

Skillgain is a result of succesful interaction, which is needed for finding a deposit.

Just turn it around; OP can be happy with his results and number peeps can stick with their numbers.

 

[Coop_]

They are if skillgain has no meaning but is a prequisite.

IMO explicit "meaning" of skillgain is bullshit, but sure there's a connection (strong enough for someone to call it meaning).

Skillgain is a result of succesful interaction, which is needed for finding a deposit.

Just turn it around; OP can be happy with his results and number peeps can stick with their numbers.

This has some possibilities. We know that in hunting, if you shoot the air you get no skillgains, but if you shoot at a mob in range, you can (at least it seems so) get skillgains even if you miss based on the "to hit" roll.

Perhaps in mining you can only get skillgains where there is at least some possibility of getting a claim, even if you failed to get one because of a "to hit" roll.

Question for the wildman who dropped 1.5K bombs in one spot: did you get skillgains throughout your bombing? If so, did you get similar skills as you get when you mine regularly?

 

[Sirhc]

Came to think of something... If your theory is correct, that means that more than one person dropping a bomb at the same place should get the same skillgains correct ?

Now that would be a pretty easy way to test it, take 20 ppl and let them drop a bomb in the same location - If your theory is correct then at least the greater part of them should get the same skillgain - Or do you have an excuse for this one as well if they do not get the same skills ?

Well every avatar is unique in some respect and every bomb/probe drop is a change in variables. I don't get the same skill gain for every bomb/probe I drop when standing still since its variable in nature. Just like shooting a rifle two people can shoot a mob with the same type of rifle and get two completely different results in damage and skills received. Your avatar actions create a reaction in EU. You can try to decipher those reactions or not its entirely a personal choice.

A long time ago there was a resource near Jason Center that nobody could claim(way before autoclaim). I knew where it was and I often detected that resource in many different locations and sometimes I would not detect it being well within range of it. I knew it was there because it was always there until MA updated mining. Same could be said for some of the finds in Hangars that could not be claimed.

There is and IMO alway been a variable nature to mining(except maybe pregold not sure there) that people need to take into account. What may very well work for my avatar may not be the exact same results another avatar can get. Your overall skills, equipment, and maybe amps used change variables which can change the visible reaction to your action.

I know when I unlocked Serendipity I could get that skill gain so easily. Now its slowed a lot since its fairly high and IMO when I get certain skills or combonations of skills there is something in EU which caused that reaction to my action. IMHO Its not nor will it ever be an exact science (sorry science guys). We don't have geological clues in EU to help us out like real life miners do. Real life miners pay attention to what they can see and feel and taste lol yeah taste. We are left to a static environment so how else would MA give us hints and clues about our surroundings? Mobs sort of look the same and the ground never changes or erodes away to expose hinden veins, the feedback we get is in the form of skills gains based on our actions the state of our avatar, and what not.

I choose to believe MA put more thought into mining and they continue to make it evolve. Just like pretty much everything in EU it will be something we can get close too but rarely figure it completely out, even though at one time Legion did figure it out and it did change. That is the beauty of EU in a way its like a really long episode of "Lost" you sort of get clues here and there and once you figure one thing out it just adds more questions to continually keep you guessing and searching. Life is sort of like that we continually try to figure things out and sometimes those discoveries just open up a whole Can O worms of other questions. Its just human nature to want to figure it out and EU presents us with limited info so we need to figure it out even though some things can never be completely proven.

 

[raeky]

They are if skillgain has no meaning but is a prequisite.

IMO explicit "meaning" of skillgain is bullshit, but sure there's a connection (strong enough for someone to call it meaning).

Skillgain is a result of succesful interaction, which is needed for finding a deposit.

Just turn it around; OP can be happy with his results and number peeps can stick with their numbers.

I don't deny skill gains mean something is nearby, but as for telling you where it is is complete BS.

 

[raeky]

Came to think of something... If your theory is correct, that means that more than one person dropping a bomb at the same place should get the same skillgains correct ?

Now that would be a pretty easy way to test it, take 20 ppl and let them drop a bomb in the same location - If your theory is correct then at least the greater part of them should get the same skillgain - Or do you have an excuse for this one as well if they do not get the same skills ?

This would only work after the first one or two bombs to clear out any claims within the blast radius. Everyone would have to face the exact same direction and be on the exact same x,y spot and drop in very quick succession. Either way it sounds fun and I'd participate.

 

[sakuraqueen]

2 more question....

1. Do I get a skillgain on a claim that I have found but I haven't extract or the skillgain is on the claim that hasn't be found? Example if I found XII iron, then I move 100m away, then I got perception? Is it because of the XII iron that I found or there's another within radius?


2. the distance is 80m away from the spot u bomb OR the claim that appeared....?

 

[Legion]

2 more question....

1. Do I get a skillgain on a claim that I have found but I haven't extract or the skillgain is on the claim that hasn't be found? Example if I found XII iron, then I move 100m away, then I got perception? Is it because of the XII iron that I found or there's another within radius?


2. the distance is 80m away from the spot u bomb OR the claim that appeared....?

1. not from the xii

2. from claim

 

[Sircus]

We know that in hunting, if you shoot the air you get no skillgains

Sry, not true (Atleast not with support weapons)

 

[Coop_]

Sry, not true (Atleast not with support weapons)

So you can launch a rocket with no mobs or avas around and get a skillgain from it?

 

[Sirhc]

So you can launch a rocket with no mobs or avas around and get a skillgain from it?

Yeah I have accidently fired a support weapon with no one around and no mobs present and gotten skill gains.

 

[Antronius]

From the chip-in data that we use to know what ratios we should chip-in,

Okay Raeky - I am a newb (or n00b, if you prefer). So I am willing to listen to everyone's input. I'm glad you have become a little more patient with our discussion.

Could you post a bit of a "clinic" on what I quoted above? I don't know anything about chipping in and out (except physically how to do it) and the ratios that you are talking about.

I'm asking for this because as promised I'm doing my research. I am stuck at Coop's post on pg 18 and working with Entropedia on the percentages.

I have run across something that I'm not understanding and I think your explanation of the above quoted will help me. I would really appreciate it.

 

[Coop_]

Yeah I have accidently fired a support weapon with no one around and no mobs present and gotten skill gains.

Quite interesting. Can you only get hit profession skills that way, or damage profession skills as well, I wonder?

Anyone got a skill when shooting something else into the air? Melee weapons I'm quite sure wouldn't work, since they don't decay that way.

 

[raeky]

Okay Raeky - I am a newb (or n00b, if you prefer). So I am willing to listen to everyone's input. I'm glad you have become a little more patient with our discussion.

Could you post a bit of a "clinic" on what I quoted above? I don't know anything about chipping in and out (except physically how to do it) and the ratios that you are talking about.

I'm asking for this because as promised I'm doing my research. I am stuck at Coop's post on pg 18 and working with Entropedia on the percentages.

I have run across something that I'm not understanding and I think your explanation of the above quoted will help me. I would really appreciate it.

What I mean is the community has taken upon it's self to figure out exactly what % each skill "contributes" to each profession, or maybe better wording is how much of each skill you gain per profession, so that when you chip in you can attempt to chip in in the correct ratios so you get the appropriate level for your skills.

People who have never altered their skills by chipping in or out have reported their various skills and everyones was compared and we arrived at pretty consistent percents that each skill you gain per profession is.

For example for mining ore, the skills you get are 50% for prospecting and 5% for perception and theres more (the wiki lists all this). It means that of all the skills you get for droping bombs ONLY 5% of those will be perception.

My contention is if skills are KNOWN to only be gained in fixed percentages how can they mean something? If they meant something it would mean that each person's skill % ratios would be different because each person mines different and just the pure entropy of it would dictate they wouldn't come out to virtually the same ratios as everyone else's, which we KNOW they do.

So thats the problem for this "skills mean something" theories, how do you explain the ratios you gain them at being fixed?

(that make more sense?)

 

[LeWolf86]

Read about 4 pages, will check up tommorow and read more.

All I have to say is....

If your a new player with no skills your in the best condition for winning this game because thats when you get the most skills most frequently! I think everyone should chip out and start fresh and follow those fast gaining skill gains! Also when 2x and 3x skill events come pay attention because its a gold mine of rewards out there!

Also for all you unfourtunate ubers out there... your days are over, because this theory is true and you cant gain skills as fast as us lowbies you will no longer be gifted with hints of veins and globals and hofs! So eat that ubers!


Ok ok I couldn't resist poking some fun at this. I asked in another thread...

1. How often is your theory correct? Is it correct this % because you follow a trail and eventually get a hit/global/hof/big loot and therefore declare your skill gain was indeed showing you where to go since 5 minutes later you globalled?

2. Lets be honest here, where did you come up with 1/2 your stuff? The perception gains and veins ok I could see how that can be made, but this direction facing and such seems a little bit past the normal crazy of theories.

3. How are veins respawned? Do they respawn completely diffrent? Or do they shift a little way like some people speculate. If they shift couldn't you in theory go back to the same spot and do a 3x3 bomb run covering about nice thick square area and find the vein. Also how do you account for lets say 3 bombs going horizontal across a vein that has hits going vertical? Is this intersecting veins?

4. How do you accept the vein theory? Ive seen someone do a scatter chart that points out the randomness and if you get 20 randoms that form a line of some sort its a vein, but over 1000 mining runs you'll have so many "veins" over lapping that this possible theory seems silly.

 

[Nyxy]

And also, BEFORE you try to bash my theory, go try it out yourself first.

It's impossible to bash your theory, because it's still only a hypothesis.

 

[GullyFoyle]

What I mean is the community has taken upon it's self to figure out exactly what % each skill "contributes" to each profession, or maybe better wording is how much of each skill you gain per profession,

This conclusion is totally wrong imo. Just because for example my handgun skill contributes 38% to my Laser Pistoler profession doesn´t mean that 38% of the skills I get while hunting with a laser pistol are handgun sills.

 

[raeky]

This conclusion is totally wrong imo. Just because for example my handgun skill contributes 38% to my Laser Pistoler profession doesn´t mean that 38% of the skills I get while hunting with a laser pistol are handgun sills.

I don't understand, the %'s listed in the wiki mean that if you hunted with the laser pistol for a long period of time, then added up all the skill points in the skills you get with that, then divided each skill total from the complete total you get the %'s listed. Which means that % is what you get for that skill while doing that action.

 

[SODERD]

how does this work for a noob who gets skillgains every drop? vains everywhere?

and for a pro miner theres almost no vains?

 

[GullyFoyle]

I don't understand, the %'s listed in the wiki mean that if you hunted with the laser pistol for a long period of time, then added up all the skill points in the skills you get with that, then divided each skill total from the complete total you get the %'s listed. Which means that % is what you get for that skill while doing that action.

Did you ever read this:https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/skills/65283-impact-skills-professions.html ?

 

[Legion]

What I mean is the community has taken upon it's self to figure out exactly what % each skill "contributes" to each profession, or maybe better wording is how much of each skill you gain per profession, so that when you chip in you can attempt to chip in in the correct ratios so you get the appropriate level for your skills.

People who have never altered their skills by chipping in or out have reported their various skills and everyones was compared and we arrived at pretty consistent percents that each skill you gain per profession is.

For example for mining ore, the skills you get are 50% for prospecting and 5% for perception and theres more (the wiki lists all this). It means that of all the skills you get for droping bombs ONLY 5% of those will be perception.

My contention is if skills are KNOWN to only be gained in fixed percentages how can they mean something? If they meant something it would mean that each person's skill % ratios would be different because each person mines different and just the pure entropy of it would dictate they wouldn't come out to virtually the same ratios as everyone else's, which we KNOW they do.

So thats the problem for this "skills mean something" theories, how do you explain the ratios you gain them at being fixed?

(that make more sense?)

That list does not explain how much you get of them, it ONLY show's how much each skill contribute to your profession. Nothing more.

Read about 4 pages, will check up tommorow and read more.

Ok ok I couldn't resist poking some fun at this. I asked in another thread...

1. How often is your theory correct? Is it correct this % because you follow a trail and eventually get a hit/global/hof/big loot and therefore declare your skill gain was indeed showing you where to go since 5 minutes later you globalled?

2. Lets be honest here, where did you come up with 1/2 your stuff? The perception gains and veins ok I could see how that can be made, but this direction facing and such seems a little bit past the normal crazy of theories.

3. How are veins respawned? Do they respawn completely diffrent? Or do they shift a little way like some people speculate. If they shift couldn't you in theory go back to the same spot and do a 3x3 bomb run covering about nice thick square area and find the vein. Also how do you account for lets say 3 bombs going horizontal across a vein that has hits going vertical? Is this intersecting veins?

4. How do you accept the vein theory? Ive seen someone do a scatter chart that points out the randomness and if you get 20 randoms that form a line of some sort its a vein, but over 1000 mining runs you'll have so many "veins" over lapping that this possible theory seems silly.

If i manage to hit a vein, it's always correct. 100% every darn time.

And it all comes from seamasters and other upc peoples skillgain research, they started it but wasnt quite right. I started to try their methods and they worked somewhat but not totally. So i started to test stuff, ie where do i get a find if i get this skill and so on and came up to this conclusion which seems to work 100% so far.

About the veins, they seem to respawn in a different location or could be that they respawn somewhat close to the old vein but not exactly. I been doing some tests and ran back and forth for some 100m and seen where stuff respawn. After going about 4-500m stuff most often has respawned at the start of the vein somewhere. The vein is not going in the exact same direction though but it can shift.

Yes i do belive that the veins intersect, and this is at the ends of them and it's also most often here they form clusters and in the clusters are often the higher values of hits. Was just out checkign mobs last night too and found a good spawn to check. The tezlas at oshiri i think it is named. The mobs are in veins aswell and the veins intersect and form clusters.. and guess where i found the good loot? yes in those clusters.

As for accepting veins, i have found veins that strecth for more than 40 claims and they have all been withing a certain distance ie 75-80m apart.

And as for the 1000runs stuff you mention, yes you would have a shitload of veins, but for me a vein is just a long line of hits. they move and shift over time so they aint in the same place or such.

This conclusion is totally wrong imo. Just because for example my handgun skill contributes 38% to my Laser Pistoler profession doesn´t mean that 38% of the skills I get while hunting with a laser pistol are handgun sills.

correct

how does this work for a noob who gets skillgains every drop? vains everywhere?

and for a pro miner theres almost no vains?

No the noob only get's certain skillgains, he dont get all of them. Thus he will have a harder time following the vein du to the fact that he will only be told about when he's facing the wrong direction or when the vein is behind him or left, right ie geology. So yes he will get a few more skillgains but that is to make up for that he cant see what's in front of him.

Did you ever read this:https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/skills/65283-impact-skills-professions.htm ?

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/skills/65283-impact-skills-professions.html

u missed an l

 

[raeky]

That list does not explain how much you get of them, it ONLY show's how much each skill contribute to your profession. Nothing more.

Very Incorrect.

 

[GullyFoyle]

Very Incorrect.

This time he is right. Once more: Read this: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/skills/65283-impact-skills-professions.html !