Skills matter in mining and other changes

[Silver di Avlo]

New stuff on my blog upon mining.

- Skills matter in mining
- About some other changes


Silver

 

[Aio]

w00 some proper evidence.

ty avlo - hope this shows everyone

 

[Kerham]

i don't agree a single observation, that regarding perception. i have tremendous skill gain on perception both mining and hunting. that can mean two things:

- either perception has a long-run use, not gain-based
- either i am completely stupid, passing by several hofs each day (not completely impossible tho )

theoretical, if perception gain means greater deposit nearby, it should appear more and more as u get close to that deposit. which is not verified.

but, it must mean something, while hunting it happens sometime to hve 3 perception gain on one mob... most often that is a no loot one...

 

[Michyblueyes]

If skills had no use why the hell would we have them ?

 

[Kerham]

of course them must have some use, what we debate is which exactly is that use

 

[strakkan]

I can agree with the decaybit wich offcourse is a great nerf for the very skilled miner vs noobminer compared with previous system.

The skillgain theory and greater deposit.......nah...sorry...dont believe in it

 

[Akadian]

New stuff on my blog upon mining.

- Skills matter in mining
- About some other changes


Silver

Whatever helps you sleep at night,
But tell this to my freind that got a 1200 HOF mining on her second mining trip. less then 200 bombs.

while ur at it, ask her if she even knows what a atrox or armax looks like.

you can also ask if she even knew where nymphtown was rofl.

noobs rule!

Ima go mak myself 100 noob accounts and global off 1 each day.
(by the way this is going that has a better chance for me then what im doing)

 

[Aio]

akadian - if you can do that, grazt to you.

Or, you could just stfu. Stop being pissed about losing - its a lottery with a bias to those with more skills.

Would it make sense if noobs couldnt uber? at all? then why the FUCK should they play?

Its called buisiness mate - stop with the whine.

 

[Azrael]

akadian - if you can do that, grazt to you.

Or, you could just stfu. Stop being pissed about losing - its a lottery with a bias to those with more skills.

Would it make sense if noobs couldnt uber? at all? then why the FUCK should they play?

Its called buisiness mate - stop with the whine.

Or maybe you could just shut the fuck up ?

 

[Dino]

The skillgain theory and greater deposit.......nah...sorry...dont believe in it

Me neither. Seems to me it's people seeing patterns where there are none. I've tried to see if I could follow this logic but it always seemed like more of a coincidence when it worked than a real system. To me skill gains when mining are just like any other; just an indication that you have gained skill in something.

The rl efficiency stats of using tools is interesting however.

 

[Akadian]

Would it make sense if noobs couldnt uber? at all? then why the FUCK should they play?

First off kid,

I wasnt whining nor was i complaining, i was being serious, by the way things are going lately, noone can really plant their fingers on how things work.

Now for u to tell me to stop whinning.... whos the one swearing like a little immature girl here.

Please try to understand my posts before u judge and point the finger.



kids these days.....

 

[Tigerman]

Haha

Skills still dont matter for how big deposits you can find, just what type of ores.
The "gain perception and get a hof" stuff is just the most hillarious theory ever...
Sorry, but LOL..

 

[Kerham]

err.. Tigerman... with hof on ruga by a newbie and me global on erdorium (under medium lvl of mining myself) I can barely say that skills counts in finding rare ores..

 

[steffel]

in my opinion,
YES skills in general have a little impact on your efficiency in the professions but skill gains DONT guarantee good loots.

i say the major reason for MA giving us skills and display "you gained experience in blabla" even when ur skill bar raises 1 millimeter is...
to keep us motivated spending more peds to see more skills rain down on you.

 

[Ironheart]

Whatever helps you sleep at night,
But tell this to my freind that got a 1200 HOF mining on her second mining trip. less then 200 bombs.

while ur at it, ask her if she even knows what a atrox or armax looks like.

you can also ask if she even knew where nymphtown was rofl.

noobs rule!

Ima go mak myself 100 noob accounts and global off 1 each day.
(by the way this is going that has a better chance for me then what im doing)

Was looking for your posts in the HOF section, but didnt see any ?!?!?

Was that beacuse you havent created the new accounts yet, or because you just havent posted them yet?

 

[geten]

Well, i'm sorry to say this, but all these surveying/prospecting/perception/whatever theories are, and have always been, complete bs made up by narrow minded people. People with delusions of grandeur who see patterns without enough statistical data to be really able to prove their theories. I ocassionally prove these theories wrong by going out to the border of the map, miles out in the ocean where you are FAR from deposits, and blow off some bombs and probes. Did this in the current VU too, and voilá, i got lots of skillgains: geology, perception, surveying and prospecting. They are just bloody skillgains!

However, PE is not all random, there are things you can use to your advantage if you do some serious research on how the system behaves. For instance, here are some easy ones: there are periods when you get more skillgains than normal, there are periods when it is particularly good to mine in an area. Timing is important in PE

Okay, i'm gonna take up some quotes for discussion.

Fields has changed size. Most of the lyst fields has changed size on Eudoria. Aprox 20% smaller now. This seems be the case for most of the fields. Though need check sizes more thouroughly. It seems they have shrinked them north/south - about 10% on each side.

How much research have you actually done on this? Since i haven't seen you global or hof in ages, i can only assume that you don't play enough

You gotta check the spawns over quite a long period to be able to rule out certain factors

I have some lyst fields which are greater than ever now, however, i and some other miners have noticed that certain fields don't seem to spawn at all this VU. At least not yet.

Interestingly it seems like the patterns are more clustered, but still the clusters seem to be more far from each other than before. Still investigating proper technique for getting most of it. Obviously it seems like "double bombing" a spot is not such a bad idea anymore, or at least near your rod

Sorry to dissappoint, but i've used "double bombing" as a part of my grid mining technique in the previous VU too, and all other VUs for that matter and it works perfectly, and it always has. It's a fundamental part in my mining strategy. But of course, if you go out grid mining a bad area, or an area with too scattered clusters, you will loose too much ^_- The trick is to know how to judge the area you are currently mining, and as you put yourself on the throne as one of the four best miners, i'm surprised that you "teach" this stuff to the public. And just yesterday i was in an area which had clusters insanely close to eachother, and it was quite big too, so the return was quite amazing

Well since I was on a stupid "cap" of some sort I did perform rather lousy.

There is really no such thing if you know how to mine really economically

 

[Tigerman]

Haha

err.. Tigerman... with hof on ruga by a newbie and me global on erdorium (under medium lvl of mining myself) I can barely say that skills counts in finding rare ores..

HAHA! I didnt say anything about rare ores..

 

[geten]

err.. Tigerman... with hof on ruga by a newbie and me global on erdorium (under medium lvl of mining myself) I can barely say that skills counts in finding rare ores..

Uhm, since when is erdorium a rare ore?

 

[strakkan]

Uhm, since when is erdorium a rare ore?

Since the time its gotten harder to find?

 

[Kerham]

HAHA! I didnt say anything about rare ores..

Skills still dont matter for how big deposits you can find, just what type of ores.

then what means "what types of ores"?

There is really no such thing if you know how to mine really economically

Geten, considering that MA stated that those large deposits would empty the fields around, seems like the direction to follow is to carpetbomb an area with poor/very poor deposits. And this is noway an economic way of mining. On the flipside, "economical" i guess it can be splitted in two considerations:

- mining fields you know to have some regular satisfactory level of ore/en-matter spawn

- placing bombs at maximum efficiently coverage at area (i.e. from 70 m to 100m one from another, after the personal way of bombing)

With all these considerations, if a miner went before you in the field, you will get zip. If it happens (perfectly possible in terms of mathematical probabilities) to visit 5 fields previously visited by other miners (thing you can;t possibly know and very possible with everyone mining these days) then you will perform "rather lousy".

However, you made some excellent points and I will +rep u on those.

Regards,

K,

who is still on the forum

 

[geten]

Since the time its gotten harder to find?

Yeah, it's harder to find, but i'm not sure i would label it rare though I've mined enough erdorium this VU to not consider it rare.

 

[Silver di Avlo]

There is less ores on the fields but this is due to the fact that they actually CUT the fields. They have made them smaller on Eudoria. Now this of course doesnt mean you get less if you know where to mine.

They have also made the grid larger making it harder to find the ores.

But the strange thing is that my output is excactly as big as before.

That is if I stay within the new field borders. And dont end up hitting ground which they have cut.

 

[geten]

Geten, considering that MA stated that those large deposits would empty the fields around, seems like the direction to follow is to carpetbomb an area with poor/very poor deposits. And this is noway an economic way of mining.

I never specified what i meant by economical mining My last comment in that post was not really "linked" to the other stuff i said

On the flipside, "economical" i guess it can be splitted in two considerations:

- mining fields you know to have some regular satisfactory level of ore/en-matter spawn

- placing bombs at maximum efficiently coverage at area (i.e. from 70 m to 100m one from another, after the personal way of bombing)

Yup, that's a good start

With all these considerations, if a miner went before you in the field, you will get zip. If it happens (perfectly possible in terms of mathematical probabilities) to visit 5 fields previously visited by other miners (thing you can;t possibly know and very possible with everyone mining these days) then you will perform "rather lousy".

Yup, it happens, thats why i always take long mining runs, so in the end, the result will be good. And there are things you can do to minimize your losses before finding a good area. One thing is that you need to have a "feeling" or develop a method for judging if an area/field is good enough at the time to be mined. It requires some experience of the system though. Cause wasting too many bombs and probes in a (for whatever reason) bad area is just.. bad

One other thing is know how to react when hof is "in the air"

And there is much more.

A few keywords for economical mining: Experience, knowledge and timing

 

[geten]

There is less ores on the fields but this is due to the fact that they actually CUT the fields. They have made them smaller on Eudoria. Now this of course doesnt mean you get less if you know where to mine.

Stop generalising please. Some fields are smaller, some are greater, some have not spawn at all yet.

They have also made the grid larger making it harder to find the ores.

Stop generalising please Because some areas are extremely dense. If you really have done enough research and compared it to other miners, you should have noticed this. And i don't believe you have enough data to be able to count out the fact that there are _so_ many more miners out blowing off bombs/probes now with the meteor event and all. And many new beginner miners who just blows up some bombs randomly in the fields. Cause that would most likely have the same apparent effect; the deposits would seem to be more scattered than before or a seemingly larger grid. I have seen some newly respawned untouched areas which are extremely dense. However, i do believe they have cut down on the density in some areas and made some areas not to spawn at all to compensate for the new average sizes etc. But this is definately not true everywhere

But the strange thing is that my output is excactly as big as before.

Not strange at all, look at what i wrote above and i think you will understand why

However, this also means that people like me are making more profit in this VU Okey, here goes a fundamental part of my strategy, not gonna go into detail so this is gonna sound really stupid But basically: I cycle dense areas and apply my grid mining technique to them. And because you now get higher average sizes, i make more profit in general (without counting hofs and globals).

 

[dutch chap]

It is my firm believe that skills DO matter with everything you do in PE, including mining. People need to realize that it effects their chance of getting something good, so it's bs to state that skills don't matter because a noob found an ATH deposit. 'see, that noob found 30k of ore and he has no skills, thus skills don't matter' is rubbish.

EVERYONE has a chance of finding an ATH, but there is just more noobs or low level players than there are ubers, so it stands to reason that you will regularly see noobs hoffing. That doesn't take away the fact that ubers have more chance of finding one and at least perform better on a regular bases.

Say for example that a noob has a 1 out of 10.000 chance to find a hof and an uber a 1 out of 5000. If at any given time there are 10 ubers mining and 1000 noobs, then you will see more noobs in the chatwindow than ubers, but each uber will have a better average return than each noob. Also you will see the uber's names on a regular bases whilst the hoffing noobs are never to be heard from again (until they get better and better), which proves that skills have an influence in the formula. And before anyone starts... the above numbers (1/10000 and 1/5000) are purely fiction, i have no idea about the real numbers.

Your skills are part of the chance formula, the higher your skills, the higher your chance to get a hof. I do agree however that the difference might be smaller than we like to think, but there is a difference.

Also hunting skills seem to have more impact than mining skills. Almost all hunting ATH's are found by ubers or at least semi ubers, which isn't the case so often with mining, so maybe i am wrong after all
But I think that there are way less mining uber players than there are in hunting, so that might explain it a little.

Luckily Strakkan got an uberhof the other day, just to restore our faith in skill building

 

[dutch chap]

On a sidenote: It can be very annoying when a player that has played for 1 week gets an ATH, so it might be fair if your maximum find is connected to your skills. Instead of the aforementioned 30k, give him/her 3k and he will still be very happy. Throw the rest back into the 'lootpool'.

In that case it is very obvious that skills matter so people might be more inclined to pay for more skilling. It's more fair to more skilled players too, they have paid their dues while getting to such skill levels. I am not saying that they should always profit, but if there is a big ATH to be found it should be going to a person with enough skills to find it.

That won't be me then, but if my skills are too low i can live with that

 

[Dino]

Sorry to dissappoint, but i've used "double bombing" as a part of my grid mining technique in the previous VU too, and all other VUs for that matter and it works perfectly, and it always has. It's a fundamental part in my mining strategy.

Considering that the detectors find the closest claim to your bomb/probe isn't "double bombing" a waste unless the claim is right next to where you bombed?

 

[Sirhc]

Dino it depends on if you are in a cluster of deposits or a vein. I double bomb once in while and if I get a hit after a claim. Usually (not always) this means its a cluster and I would be more apt to bomb/probe twice on a claim. A vein tends to be a strung out number of deposits (in a line/semicircle and such) I have not proved this but when you find a claim isnt it possible for another claim to be under that one? This is just some of the things I have experienced in this VU and past ones. Last night on TI I found 8 deposits in about 100m circle all from double bombing claims. Maybe it was just a quick respawn area I am not sure. I am still getting used to the new system as well. Hope this helps.

 

[Dino]

Dino it depends on if you are in a cluster of deposits or a vein. I double bomb once in while and if I get a hit after a claim. Usually (not always) this means its a cluster and I would be more apt to bomb/probe twice on a claim. A vein tends to be a strung out number of deposits (in a line/semicircle and such) I have not proved this but when you find a claim isnt it possible for another claim to be under that one? This is just some of the things I have experienced in this VU and past ones. Last night on TI I found 8 deposits in about 100m circle all from double bombing claims. Maybe it was just a quick respawn area I am not sure. I am still getting used to the new system as well. Hope this helps.

I've found several claims all within about a 50m radius too, but they are always "closest to the bomb" and never noticed depth to influence that. If I bomb and find a claim 30m away I always go at least 20m past it to bomb again to avoid overlap since I've negated a 60m diameter circle from being eligable. Does that make more sense?

 

[Sirhc]

That makes perfect sense Dino. I just wanted to share some of my experiences and state that its not always ridiculous to double bomb sometimes it pays off. Although not this VU in the last one I did find 4 deposits all bombing the same spot(which was a claim rod) and all within 5-10m. I guess ultimately mining is a "do whatever works for you" type of profession.