so whos bright idea was creating the new hitboxes, and what does it add to the game?

[FallenAngel]

so i understand changes have been made to the hitboxes of mobs, i have just seen a picture of one of these and i am wondering, what were you guys thinking, what possible purpose do these have, why was development time spent (wasted?) on something like this in a slow auto-aim MMO?
from what i see on the forum all it has done is caused problems and angered people, i really find it hard to comprehend development time was spent on something like this when there are still systems missing from entropia, such as taming, and so many bugs that needed fixing.
i have suggested this before but ill suggest it again, hiring someone who's sole job is sitting in meetings and asking one question over and over would save the people playing this game and the company running it so much time and money.

the question that should be asked continuously is "in what way does this improve the game for its participants."

 

[nonaware]

well... its not that far of a stretch to think this has something to do with a taming system... from mounting and riding mobs to preventing some types of exploits such as blocking...

should probably help with mobs getting trapped and going unreachable.

lots of things that this could foreshadow.

 

[KlowN]

Maybe in the future (far future lol) we will have real FPS combat . BOOM HEADSHOT

 

[Solo4711]

not sure what the engine can do but might be something:

- certain body parts could be more vulnerable to laser and others to blp cause creatures wear armors or have a harder shell on different body parts. ( a melee fighter has more success hiting a soft spot^^)

- hiting a special box could trigger an effect. like a creature getting hit on the leg reacts aggressive and moves slower to the target while shooting it in the eye makes it blind and hit less or such.

anthing like that i could imagine now.


EDIT: or they plan to implement a ragdoll sheme. (shooting body parts off with a critical hit etc)

 

[John B Knight]

The best way to make hunting based on realworld skills and make bots/alt-accounts redundant is to change the way it works from a single hitbox to a bodyparts concept with damage scale.

 

[melander]

so i understand changes have been made to the hitboxes of mobs, i have just seen a picture of one of these and i am wondering, what were you guys thinking, what possible purpose do these have, why was development time spent (wasted?) on something like this in a slow auto-aim MMO?
from what i see on the forum all it has done is caused problems and angered people, i really find it hard to comprehend development time was spent on something like this when there are still systems missing from entropia, such as taming, and so many bugs that needed fixing.
i have suggested this before but ill suggest it again, hiring someone who's sole job is sitting in meetings and asking one question over and over would save the people playing this game and the company running it so much time and money.

the question that should be asked continuously is "in what way does this improve the game for its participants."

Performance?
Updating very old hitbox logic so the "slow auto-aim MMO" can be more then that in future?
Reducing the times mobs get stuck?

it doesn't take brain surgeon level of intelligence to understand that there is a issue with the new hitbox logic currently, for crying out loud that image you linked is from a post by Kim explaining that there is a issue currently .

As for the bug fix remark... i just give up, largest bug fixing patch, well, ever? and that is the remark you put out there? There are a few posts than genuinely are posted with complaints because they want the game to improve... this one is clearly just bitching and moaning.

Regards,
Zweshi

 

[Kiriku Surgun]

what possible purpose do these have, why was development time spent (wasted?) on something like this in a slow auto-aim MMO?

Assuming:
Its armor parts,, mobs could have weak spots and players withouth a full set of armor as well. Less random, and gives a more viable system for FPS fans. Though im not sure if it works.

 

[starcollector]

The best way to make hunting based on realworld skills and make bots/alt-accounts redundant is to change the way it works from a single hitbox to a bodyparts concept with damage scale.

You have right! Actualy this concept of new hitboxes will fix alot of things.... All we need is time and patience.
Good job MA with this new hitboxes logic! Actualy in this moment I think the game will start a new era !

 

[FallenAngel]

The best way to make hunting based on realworld skills and make bots/alt-accounts redundant is to change the way it works from a single hitbox to a bodyparts concept with damage scale.

yes that would be so, except MA has been moving away from anything to do with real world skills and choices in every way, and especially with hunting.
we now have auto-aim, auto-move to target, auto-shoot, and switch to next target, removed ammo use from missed shots, and then suddenly its a good idea to have separate hitboxes to make it more FPS like? i am not buying that one.
i come from the "FPS world" and there is nothing about this game, as it currently stands, that has anything to do with FPS, and what i just described IS pretty much bot based hunting, why does anyone need to code a bot to hunt when its all automated to begin with, it makes no sense.

and if thats true why half-introduce it, thats so pointless, just like the ground vehicles, they made weapons for them, vehicles specifically for use in PVP, and then removed the vehicles from PVP.

 

[jaywalker]

yes that would be so, except MA has been moving away from anything to do with real world skills and choices in every way, and especially with hunting.
we now have auto-aim, auto-move to target, auto-shoot, and switch to next target, removed ammo use from missed shots, and then suddenly its a good idea to have separate hitboxes to make it more FPS like? i am not buying that one.
i come from the "FPS world" and there is nothing about this game, as it currently stands, that has anything to do with FPS, and what i just described IS pretty much bot based hunting, why does anyone need to code a bot to hunt when its all automated to begin with, it makes no sense.

and if thats true why half-introduce it, thats so pointless, just like the ground vehicles, they made weapons for them, vehicles specifically for use in PVP, and then removed the vehicles from PVP.

point.

also, I can't understand why some people just assume that basing the game more on real-world skills is even desirable.

Point of a fantasy game is that it isn't like real life.

Entropia haas a lotof disabled players who'd be crushed by such a change. They come here to forget about real-life disparities.

jay

 

[Neil Stockton]

Taming, more fun hunting, so we can have headshots that do more damage. The problem with that one is that some of these mobs you're not sure which part is the "head"! Not hard to fix though... just scan the animal to show important hitboxes highlighted (finally, a use for scanning!!)

But we all know the real reason is so that players can really speculate on theories like "kill shot in the left little toe results in global".

 

[jaywalker]

But we all know the real reason is so that players can really speculate on theories like "kill shot in the left little toe results in global".

LMAO

But it's sooo true. hehe

jay

 

[jaywalker]

Excuse me quoting myself. On reflection, i feel I should elaborate on this

also, I can't understand why some people just assume that basing the game more on real-world skills is even desirable.

Point of a fantasy game is that it isn't like real life.

Entropia haas a lot of disabled players who'd be crushed by such a change. They come here to forget about real-life disparities.

jay

Personally, I suffer from poor co-ordination IRL, which gets really bad, sporadically due to a present illness. Well, I'm not looking for sympathy here, I'm sure others are a lot worse off. It just shows that I do speak from experience.

Sometimes this does effect gameplay , of course, and has cost me PED at times, but the move towards more automation has made that PED-loss insignificant, thank goodness.

The problem here is that this is an RCE. And whilst I really don't mind looking like a dork (I'm with Ishmael on this- somebody has to provide the entertainment! *chuckle*) I don't like paying for the privilege! And all know how costly this game can be if we're careless!

Thus, I really don't think its appopriate for Entropia to move towards penalising players for lack of RL skills! And I'm very glad that MA seem to agree, thus far.

As regards this missed shot thing:

MY experience has been that it's not my lack of grace in past that caused me to miss shots so much as lag; pop-up-windows in inconvenient places; the lastest damned bug etc. I guess MA decided not to charge people for hardware problems, bugs etc anymore (or they got tired of Support Cases asking for refunds. Hehe). I mean that issue had next to nothing to do with player skill, anyways.

If play this becomes more "robotic" in a way, that might be good! It might mean that bots no longer have any significant advantage! Woohoo!

I recall MA saying their intention is to reward thoughtful play. i.e, an RL flair for strategy (for example) might still pay dividends in game. So, hmm, the idiots with nothing but fast reflexes might find themselves at a disadvantage that's true. But should we weep about that? There are plenty of other games out there, where those guys can wipe the floor with the rest of us, after all


jay

 

[Neil Stockton]

The other problem, other than what Jay referred to, is that people with laggy internet connections wouldn't be able to hunt either. So MA needs to continue to provide an "auto" alternative that works.

 

[Aeris_is_back]

Head shots for pvp would be fun but not really needed we already have enough items that will one shot somebody. One shot pvp is not really that much fun its much better when 2-3 shots are needed unless you have to deal with kids who just jump around and heal also this would be far to easy for the software exploiters to abuse.

hunting really sucks like this, I can be aimed dead center of a mob and still not have it targeted, I lost a third of my dps with some mobs "most" and hitting anything over great range more so when it runs at you is like 10% to hit the fucking thing. the system was working fine so in the future people are going to have to wonder if they are shooting the most eco part of a mob? I don't want to have to think about shit like that.

and if thats true why half-introduce it, thats so pointless, just like the ground vehicles, they made weapons for them, vehicles specifically for use in PVP, and then removed the vehicles from PVP.

people would exploit them as shields making them invaluable to players that would otherwise obliterate them in pvp for the most part at the ashi oil rig. players miners in lootable pvp spent 99% of the time hiding under a quad and the second they seen somebody they where gone with really no chance to kill them. I think cars with low SI would be nice for lootable pvp but nothing that can fly or have more then even 200 si.

 

[trance]

I use now my scope, it helps much about the too small boxes. They are just too small, that's the problem!

 

[GeorgeSkywalker]

hiring someone who's sole job is sitting in meetings and asking one question over and over would save the people playing this game and the company running it so much time and money.

the question that should be asked continuously is "in what way does this improve the game for its participants."

What would be the point of this when they already know the answer? It's a complete waste of money when it could be spent on hiring someone to do actual development work.

You may not know and understand it's purpose is very different from the company developing it knowing and understanding what they are doing.

The real question is should they get someone to educate us? Perhaps, but that has to be a two way process. If we fail to live up to our part then certainly not.

 

[Ape Drape]

What would be the point of this when they already know the answer? It's a complete waste of money when it could be spent on hiring someone to do actual development work.

You may not know and understand it's purpose is very different from the company developing it knowing and understanding what they are doing.

The real question is should they get someone to educate us? Perhaps, but that has to be a two way process. If we fail to live up to our part then certainly not.

Umm... If we fail to live up to our part? We're the customers. That's our part. I can guarantee that the reason behind it is to cost us more money, and that is the only reason behind it. And anyone who even suggests that this is a good thing, go hunt mobs in PVP areas where those physical misses, because the hitbox is 1/5th the size of the mob, are going to cost you even more of your hard earned money.

 

[Talania]

I think it is all because of the change to make it so players don't get stuck between mobs and maybe around other players. How it would work I have no idea though.

 

[the-unknown]

Ca you imagine PVP with the new hit boxes?

You get hit and you see red for a short while, or your move speed is degraded, etc.

 

[SpikeBlack]

This might come from the fact that we have a PvP fps player in control of Calypso and a planet / area based around pvp and MA made the changes to accommodate them. The current hit boxes come from a quick fix to change the mobs hit boxes possibly from an automatic tool.

A lot of us found that shooting straight at target is often the worst hit, aiming at the edges or slightly around a mob gives a better hit. Try attacting PvP fps players with that and they'd think they were back in the 80's.

 

[FallenAngel]

people would exploit them as shields making them invaluable to players that would otherwise obliterate them in pvp for the most part at the ashi oil rig. players miners in lootable pvp spent 99% of the time hiding under a quad and the second they seen somebody they where gone with really no chance to kill them. I think cars with low SI would be nice for lootable pvp but nothing that can fly or have more then even 200 si.

oh i know this, but, instead of developing vehicles properly so they cant be abused they first spend energy developing them badly, people spend good amounts of money on them for good reasons, and then when some players abuse the poor design instead of fixing it properly they nerf vehicles and the purpose (and price) of many of these items disappeared.
i personally thought vehicles si's were fine (i was a sometime pvp miner with a pitbull), to hunt me required a change in tactics for the old-school pvp-er and the use of a flying vehicle or other vehicle with enough damage to destroy the pitbull.
the issues were, recall of vehicles in pvp, which is a MA design problem that they could of solved, and being able to hide inside broken vehicles and not get hit, another design problem for which a fix can be devised.

What would be the point of this when they already know the answer? It's a complete waste of money when it could be spent on hiring someone to do actual development work.

You may not know and understand it's purpose is very different from the company developing it knowing and understanding what they are doing.

The real question is should they get someone to educate us? Perhaps, but that has to be a two way process. If we fail to live up to our part then certainly not.

oh but i already think i know the answer too, and the answer is not a good one from my pov.
the thing is it is not a waste of money, putting the customers interest first is the key to a successful business, the key to successful marketing is the product first and foremost, happy customers are paying customers, happy customers are free advertising. you only have to look at MA's financial results to see what happens when you live in the past and think only of yourself as a company for a few years, and chase profits at the expense of the product.
the best PR people and marketeers do not just devise campaigns and strategies to gain customers, they look long and hard at the organisation and the product before even considering the external methods for achieving growth.
isnt the best way to hire more people for development actually having more paying customers or am i missing something?

This might come from the fact that we have a PvP fps player in control of Calypso and a planet / area based around pvp and MA made the changes to accommodate them. The current hit boxes come from a quick fix to change the mobs hit boxes possibly from an automatic tool.

A lot of us found that shooting straight at target is often the worst hit, aiming at the edges or slightly around a mob gives a better hit. Try attacting PvP fps players with that and they'd think they were back in the 80's.

all well and good to make changes to hitboxes because a PP wants to implement interesting FPS style PvP, i come from that world so might even understand those motivations better than the average MMO player, BUT, how does changing the hitboxes of the mobs do anything for PvP when PvP is by definition player vs player??

 

[Jon Moe Snow]

If intentional - this is the absolute most dumbest setting i have ever seen in this game since i started playing.

KOS hitbox! ( oh yeah kos has a new different meaning now when you can't even hit anything)

FOS = Fap on Sight

 

[SpikeBlack]

all well and good to make changes to hitboxes because a PP wants to implement interesting FPS style PvP, i come from that world so might even understand those motivations better than the average MMO player, BUT, how does changing the hitboxes of the mobs do anything for PvP when PvP is by definition player vs player??

it depends on how they implemented them in the first place. If they were a generic one size fits all i.e. based on the size of the mobs and players then adjusting them resulted in the mobs getting a decreased hitbox.

If they split the mobs / players hit boxes and they used a tool to add them to the mobs they didn't check the result thoroughly.

 

[Shard-Angel]

It's a simple reason for hit-boxes:

Originally: ONE big target = ONE big hitbox regardless of movement of critter or avatar = eg. 1 Ped per kill.
Now: ONE big target = 10 moving Hit zones + random movements of avatar and critter = 5-10 ped per kill.

More virtual eye candy for player: "oohh look I blew off the limb - lots of blood gushing about... looks great... ha ha....good fun!! Wait till I tell my friends!"

More "ha ha ...suckers" real cash candy for MA.

 

[Sunsout Gunsout]

It's a simple reason for hit-boxes:

Originally: ONE big target = ONE big hitbox regardless of movement of critter or avatar = eg. 1 Ped per kill.
Now: ONE big target = 10 moving Hit zones + random movements of avatar and critter = 5-10 ped per kill.

More virtual eye candy for player: "oohh look I blew off the limb - lots of blood gushing about... looks great... ha ha....good fun!! Wait till I tell my friends!"

More "ha ha ...suckers" real cash candy for MA.

Finally, after reading through the whole thread, the first person has touched on the real reason:

Nothing done by MA anymore is for any purpose other than to increase profits, while making us think that the loss is our fault. (Getting rid of losing ammo while shooting at nothing was purely a legal cover-your-ass...they had to do it)

They are implementing it to increase cost to kill for anyone who isn't robotically perfectly eco. Period. The lazy hunter will pay more. Period.

And all the while, support will tell us "Don't worry, you are doing nothing wrong" Which is bullshit, cuz I am currently probably doing like 72 things wrong, and after adding hitboxes, it will probably be 79.

So just chalk it up to another latent nuance that has to be micro-managed, just like everything else in the game.


And as far as all this "bot" talk goes...Holy shit, learn what you are talking about. This game inherently makes us all a bot.

The other day, I was taking a shit while crafting, and got a HOF. When I finally was done with the shit, I came back to see that 2 people had Gratz'ed me in local chat, and since I didn't respond quick enough, 2 others were calling me a "bot"!

Idiots. Who the FUCK thinks that someone needs to write a bot script to craft while AFK??? And who the hell would trust any hunting bot with massive amounts of ped? I wouldn't. And most importantly, there is no perfectly profitable action to make a bot for.

Anyone who would make a bot for an activity that gives back 90% is a idiot. I hunt for the joy of being there when I loot it, and I DAMN SURE IMPROVE MY LOOT BY BEING THERE AND FIGURING OUT PERC. Good luck doing that with a bot.

The fact is, bots are not, nor have ever been, an issue, and that is NOT why the hitboxes are implemented.

 

[Sissi]

Finally, after reading through the whole thread, the first person has touched on the real reason:

Nothing done by MA anymore is for any purpose other than to increase profits, while making us think that the loss is our fault. (Getting rid of losing ammo while shooting at nothing was purely a legal cover-your-ass...they had to do it)

They are implementing it to increase cost to kill for anyone who isn't robotically perfectly eco. Period. The lazy hunter will pay more. Period.

And all the while, support will tell us "Don't worry, you are doing nothing wrong" Which is bullshit, cuz I am currently probably doing like 72 things wrong, and after adding hitboxes, it will probably be 79.

So just chalk it up to another latent nuance that has to be micro-managed, just like everything else in the game.

Loved the part when they (ok, only Joakim) repeatedly state that they are fixed

 

[Jon Moe Snow]

Still unplayable game.

 

[Sunsout Gunsout]

Still unplayable game.

Yeah, I agree.

Hunt in PvP? Hell no...not when the mob doesn't target like it used to and I lose ammo from shooting at air....yes I could target a different way, but it's still frustrating.

Hunt over 50% of mobs? Hell no...not when the kill duration is extended by my avatar looking for target longer between shots.

Some mobs still hunt ok, like Prots, or Pop dragons. But most are simply regen'ing more than they should as my ava waves his gun around like a drunk cowboy.

If there isn't a damn good reason for them messing with it, this game will be dead to me.

 

[trance]

Yeah, I agree.

Hunt in PvP? Hell no...not when the mob doesn't target like it used to and I lose ammo from shooting at air....yes I could target a different way, but it's still frustrating.

.

You don't loos ammo while shooting in the air. They changed that some months ago!
But if you don't hit, the mob regen faster.

An scope can helps too, to hit the too small box.