Some questions ; average region depths.

[MegaDeth]

Hi hi, i picked up mining ( ore ) about a week ago as a main activity and have had odd results.

First of all, most miners i meet and talk to tell me to go out with the TT finder or OF 01 or such, but doing so i get pretty bad results, this brings my to my main question:

Is average search depth related to an average mineral depth by region ... to get a higher claim rate ?

Note, over 500 bombs at least i had below 12 % hit rate. Tried MANY zones, most gave me 2 or 1 or even no claims in 20 bombs before i gave up, some had decent claim rates; close to 20% and that's where i made back my funds to try out other zones, plus a global in a very HIGH claim rate zone... 40% claim in 50 bombs, PA, to bad that whenever i go there now i see bombs marks every 60 meters



and another 47 ped lyst north of chimera amidst the merps

WHERE should i mine for claims found at an average of 270 meters or lower ? , i have 330 average depth on my OF 103 , i feel that since my dice roll too low i don't find the claims i should , so i miss out this way alot. Went to places like Billy's , Phoenix , All Atlas TPs, Jason, Twin etc trying to mine near mobs of low health hoping i'll find newbie oriented ore deposits , NO LUCK , below 10% claim rate.

Had WAY more luck ( claim rate low, deposits of 10 ped each ) in the Fort Zeus region and adiacent revivals amongs the neconu and tezlapods and such and also north among the beryes and feffoids/meff, so i'm confused out of my mind.

 

[MegaDeth]

Oh , and how does one mine in deeper water ?

 

[DrewiD]

one cannot mine in deep water,, drop a mine or probe on the waters shore line is about as close as you can get,{you cannot in the water},, then the range of your finder defines how far into { deep } the claime is. Hope this helps.. { oh try fort argus}

 

[MegaDeth]

one cannot mine in deep water,, drop a mine or probe on the waters shore line is about as close as you can get,{you cannot in the water},, then the range of your finder defines how far into { deep } the claime is. Hope this helps.. { oh try fort argus}

I saw bomb marks a few hundred meters into the water, first a while back when i ran the minopolis tp i think and recently when i started mining, i can clearly see them as ... say 200 meters into water , at the bottom of the sea , but i can't bomb the very same place , or in any body of water.

I'll try Argus too, btw, i have all Eudoria TP's.

edit: Been to argus two times already 12 % hit , pretty bad return over all.

 

[R4tt3xx]

You and pretty much mine anywhere and find sites, one thing I have noticed though, if you are hitting quite well and suddenly it stops, don't be like a complete moron and carry on mining, teleport or jump to your nearest TP, get out of that area as you will find that it will be dry. I have seen this MANY times. I will be placing a post up soon for an effective grid based searching system that at least for me has potential.

 

[MegaDeth]

You and pretty much mine anywhere and find sites, one thing I have noticed though, if you are hitting quite well and suddenly it stops, don't be like a complete moron and carry on mining, teleport or jump to your nearest TP, get out of that area as you will find that it will be dry. I have seen this MANY times. I will be placing a post up soon for an effective grid based searching system that at least for me has potential.

Cool, i agree that having many no resource found in a row could mean the area is dry and believe you me , i skittle when things seem bad , but how do i know when an area is already "dry" before i drop half my avatar net worth into the ground to find out ?

And again , how do i know what the " minimum " average depth for a region is ? Again , without dropping the other half of my net worth to find out for myself.

I feel i must draw a picture to depict this since many of you just assume that ALL regions will have ore lying 50 meters under the ground , waiting for a TT finder to pick them up.

 

[Harvest]

Use a count system. Your finder only has a certain radius, figure out what that is and place the bombs so you have a minimal over lap. Once you got that, count how long it takes you to run that distance. Drop about 3 maybe 4 bombs/probes spaced out like this. If you dont hit anything increase the count...for me it takes me about 10 seconds, if nothing increase to 15 for a couple, if nothing increase more, till I clear the nrf(no resource found).

Like R4tt3xx says, if stuff isnt dropping, stop, just leave area, much like fishing.
You will find that certain areas just dont have much and sometimes the claims are 500meters + apart. Take note and leave those areas alone.

GL

IMO, depth is a made up number....I believe the finders give you a % to find certain materials, then your skill also modify this % + amp mod %. Your odds of finding something super rare with tt finder is almost 0 but still possible 0.00000001% probably even worse, compared to an uber finder where you might have 10% or better for finding rares.

 

[SODERD]

SUBSCRIBING, ive dropped 3k bombs without a find bigger then Large so i must be doin something wrong

 

[MegaDeth]

Here's a fast drawing i made to express my insanity:



This is what i believe , that some regions have the minimum depth too low for some finders , or for the skills of some players such as I.

Now , I'm confident that my assessment of the depths are close to what i saw in game , however , I'd like to know now where to mine having THAT picture in mind ? Considering i have somewhere round 330m average search depth.

PA is cool to mine , but i feel that too many miners spam that area from top to bottom every two hours so it's a waste. Other areas I've been to have had ores in the 500m range only, nothing shallower so i had a pretty BAD hit rate because of that.

Zichion has ores in the 290 to 360 meter range pretty often , i actually made back most of my losses i made a few days ago just from there , from regular claims , nothing bigger then V. Too bad it's crawling with merps and faucevixes and atrox and god knows what else.

SO, what regions do you guys know where i would be able to find ore shallower then 300 ?

 

[MegaDeth]

Use a count system. Your finder only has a certain radius, figure out what that is and place the bombs so you have a minimal over lap. Once you got that, count how long it takes you to run that distance. Drop about 3 maybe 4 bombs/probes spaced out like this. If you dont hit anything increase the count...for me it takes me about 10 seconds, if nothing increase to 15 for a couple, if nothing increase more, till I clear the nrf(no resource found).

Like R4tt3xx says, if stuff isnt dropping, stop, just leave area, much like fishing.
You will find that certain areas just dont have much and sometimes the claims are 500meters + apart. Take note and leave those areas alone.

GL

IMO, depth is a made up number....I believe the finders give you a % to find certain materials, then your skill also modify this % + amp mod %. Your odds of finding something super rare with tt finder is almost 0 but still possible 0.00000001% probably even worse, compared to an uber finder where you might have 10% or better for finding rares.

I know about the overlapping of the finder, don't worry, I always keep a minimum of 110 meters between my bombs when there are no finds*, so my search radius won't overlap, however suggesting to run 10 seconds is not a good tip, in 10 seconds i run maybe 65-70 meters.

When i count i usually do fractions of 0.7 seconds since i can't keep the rhythm of a standard second in my mind , so i count to about 26 - 32 depending on how rugged the ground is.

Note that finders IGNORE height completely , i once had a claim that was 40something meters away on top of a 90 degree mountain edge , without gravity there would have been 250 meters in a straight line from me to the claim , this tells me that finder range is based on a top-down view of the map , so again , counting seconds when climbing is pointless , one would be better off extrapolating the distance by the use of the P command. Or simply keep track of the real distance you run/walk in your mind , like i do.

If depth would be a made up number, it could be scratched right off the finders , and these tools could be renamed to " more expensive finder ; even more expensive finder ; most expensive finder " etc. I don't buy this.

 

[SODERD]

what you are trying to say is: you cant only use a to shallow finder but an to deep finder two?

If so, then you will have to carry a tt finder an of-211 and a tk-320 to tell what average deeps the finds in a regions are at? With this setup you will be able to cover all deeps down to 1000m.

Also I believe there are more then 1 average deep in a region, at least 2. 1 for the low-mid lvl finds, and one for the rare ones.

This is pretty interesting… more use to a higher lvl miner though.

 

[R4tt3xx]

"If depth would be a made up number, it could be scratched right off the finders , and these tools could be renamed to " more expensive finder ; even more expensive finder ; most expensive finder " etc. I don't buy this."


I think that the depth of the tools is very variable information. What I have done is take the depth of a tool and instead of just using it as depth, I use it as the size of a field. allow me to explain with an example :-

101

Range: 54 m
Depth: 263.7 m
Uses: 8 /Min

I use the depth value as the center of a field, if I was standing at coord 12345 by 12345, the middle would be 12393.9 12393.9, I would then build up a search pattern and scan that area. Last night it gave me an abundant deposit, minimums have been ample.

 

[Harvest]

If depth would be a made up number, it could be scratched right off the finders , and these tools could be renamed to " more expensive finder ; even more expensive finder ; most expensive finder " etc. I don't buy this.

it probably took a good 4 months for them to figure out a different name for em.

Super expensive finder just sounds so....expensive. How bout we call it Mt.Sifter EHB9k.

A good example of a working mod system is AD&D second addition, armor classes and to hit.

I tried to draw a pic but its late and brain is sputtery

 

[MegaDeth]

what you are trying to say is: you cant only use a to shallow finder but an to deep finder two?

If so, then you will have to carry a tt finder an of-211 and a tk-320 to tell what average deeps the finds in a regions are at? With this setup you will be able to cover all deeps down to 1000m.

Also I believe there are more then 1 average deep in a region, at least 2. 1 for the low-mid lvl finds, and one for the rare ones.

This is pretty interesting… more use to a higher lvl miner though.

By this very CRUDE drawing I'm only saying that some deposits may be WAY to deep for me to find, but miners with a little more skill and a better average depth would get at least the minimum ore claim , and if they roll the dice for a high enough number they'll get a higher value ore instead of say blaus or lyst.

In my case , however , i wouldn't get even the shallowest ore type due to my poor dice skills.

If, however, the pro miner and the unskilled one would mine side by side , 110 meters apart in PA for example, doing this at 4 in the morning EU time to have little chance of going trough another miners "cursed NRF zones" as i call them , then they would get roughly the same hit ratio , but the miner with a better average depth would get more valuable ores.

This is what i feel, i may be WRONG by a long shot, but considering how deep i find some ores in some regions , like the neconu region south east of Fort Zeus, i can only conclude that some regions have the SHALLOWEST ore in a claim at a very very deep depth, while other regions, like PA or Zichion have the shallowest ore type in a claim much closer to the surface.

 

[MegaDeth]

I think that the depth of the tools is very variable information. What I have done is take the depth of a tool and instead of just using it as depth, I use it as the size of a field. allow me to explain with an example :-

101

Range: 54 m
Depth: 263.7 m
Uses: 8 /Min

I use the depth value as the center of a field, if I was standing at coord 12345 by 12345, the middle would be 12393.9 12393.9, I would then build up a search pattern and scan that area. Last night it gave me an abundant deposit, minimums have been ample.

I was trying to picture this in my mind ... and failed can you please elaborate ?

 

[Harvest]

but considering how deep i find some ores in some regions , like the neconu region south east of Fort Zeus, i can only conclude that some regions have the SHALLOWEST ore in a claim at a very very deep depth, while other regions, like PA or Zichion have the shallowest ore type in a claim much closer to the surface.

I see what your saying, same ores deeper in different areas. Lyst can be found at all depths(all finders). What your suggesting is a common depth in a certain area, lets say the lyst is at 800 meters, you couldnt find it with a tt finder. I dont know for a fact this is true or not.

I do know that I have used up to 3 different ore finders consecutively in the same spot, switching back from one to the other and even double dropping with same finder and then double dropping with diff finder. I can tell you the results were very interesting. Still think the depth was put in so you could see the progression of the finders. The game has a different way of distributing loot, if it wants some one to find a claim of lyst, it will put it right where it can (lucky person).

 

[MegaDeth]

I do know that I have used up to 3 different ore finders consecutively in the same spot, switching back from one to the other and even double dropping with same finder and then double dropping with diff finder. I can tell you the results were very interesting. Still think the depth was put in so you could see the progression of the finders. The game has a different way of distributing loot, if it wants some one to find a claim of lyst, it will put it right where it can (lucky person).

No, no, no!

I'm not talking about 3 claims in the same spot , I'm talking about ONE CLAIM with different ores inside, depending on what the finder rolls you get an ore type or NONE AT ALL, and then the claim is spent. Dropping again MAY hit a second claim completely, and i was not talking about that.

Ok, scenario, 120m Lyst --------- 320m Gazz --------- 420m Narc

Newbie with 100m average search depth rolls 109 and finds nothing, claim is SPENT, GONE.

Same claim but somewhere else, I roll 367m and get Gazz, the claim is SPENT AND GONE.

Someone with 800m average search depth rolls 655m and gets the narc from an identical claim as the example, then the claim is SPENT AND GONE.

In all cases the minimum average depth to find the claim, AND NOT THE RARER NARC, was 120m, this is what I'm talking about.

In some regions the minimum average depth starts VERY VERY DEEP under ground, in other places like Port Atlantis for example the minimum average depth to find the claim starts at 110m or so i think. But so many many people mine in PA that one may drop a bomb where someone else already mined often enough to go bankrupt.

With the above in mind, where would you people point me to try mining at 330m average depth ?

 

[SODERD]

can you make a drawing of this?

"I use the depth value as the center of a field, if I was standing at coord 12345 by 12345, the middle would be 12393.9 12393.9, I would then build up a search pattern and scan that area. Last night it gave me an abundant deposit, minimums have been ample."

 

[Shoe]

I just cant understand why you should count seconds or 0.7fraction of seconds...
Press "P".. If it is more than 100(or 110) meters away drop a new bomb..
I press p 2-3 times between each bomb (I know, that is a little overdoing it)

If you run NE, NW or some other direction pythagoras algorithm gives you something like 72 meters before dropping a new bomb..

Counting seconds is very inexact imho.

 

[MegaDeth]

I just cant understand why you should count seconds or 0.7fraction of seconds...
Press "P".. If it is more than 100(or 110) meters away drop a new bomb..
I press p 2-3 times between each bomb (I know, that is a little overdoing it)

If you run NE, NW or some other direction pythagoras algorithm gives you something like 72 meters before dropping a new bomb..

Counting seconds is very inexact imho.

72m would be true for squares maybe o.0 , lol idk

I'll draw a picture again hehehe, it seems that either i am being misunderstood which is very likely or that misconceptions are floating on these forums.



No matter what direction i pick , as long as i'm changing my direction by 90 degrees i need to run 110 meters , unless hit a claim , in that case the field does not expand beyond the claim. so i need to factor in a smaller area covered. smaller by the distance the bomb exploded to the claim , of course.

I could hit P every time i needed to pick a place to bomb , but i found my counting to be very exact when i do hit P to check , so i don't need to do it.

REGARDLESS OF ALL THIS, since i have a 12 % hit rate i may just be an idiot who plays a different game.

 

[Jimmy B]

No, no, no!

I'm not talking about 3 claims in the same spot , I'm talking about ONE CLAIM with different ores inside, depending on what the finder rolls you get an ore type or NONE AT ALL, and then the claim is spent. Dropping again MAY hit a second claim completely, and i was not talking about that.

Ok, scenario, 120m Lyst --------- 320m Gazz --------- 420m Narc

Newbie with 100m average search depth rolls 109 and finds nothing, claim is SPENT, GONE.

Same claim but somewhere else, I roll 367m and get Gazz, the claim is SPENT AND GONE.

Someone with 800m average search depth rolls 655m and gets the narc from an identical claim as the example, then the claim is SPENT AND GONE.

In all cases the minimum average depth to find the claim, AND NOT THE RARER NARC, was 120m, this is what I'm talking about.

In some regions the minimum average depth starts VERY VERY DEEP under ground, in other places like Port Atlantis for example the minimum average depth to find the claim starts at 110m or so i think. But so many many people mine in PA that one may drop a bomb where someone else already mined often enough to go bankrupt.

I don't think it works like this to be honest. Lyst can be found at any depth, and if it worked in the manner you suggest, hit rate should be higher with higher level finders. All evidence suggests its not.

With a 12% hit rate I'd say you've just had a bad run, it happens. How many bombs have you dropped?

 

[MegaDeth]

I don't think it works like this to be honest. Lyst can be found at any depth, and if it worked in the manner you suggest, hit rate should be higher with higher level finders. All evidence suggests its not.

With a 12% hit rate I'd say you've just had a bad run, it happens. How many bombs have you dropped?

523 bombs , 65 finds if i remember.

But i had 20 NRF in a row a few times , and also 5 finds in a row somewhere else.

It does NOT matter at what depth one finds lyst lol , please scratch that and try to view this with an open mind

say if you constantly find lyst at 600-800 and sometimes also 110 why would you think that there would not have been something higher then the lyst you found in your claim. for example again

claim named " 5.46 ped "

450 depth lyst ----- 800 depth lyst --- 950 depth gold.

why would i care that there's gold at 950 depth ? i don't , but i do care that i would probably NOT FIND that claim since my find has an average of 330m ; i don't know the shape of the dice i use , but apparently I'll hit 330m on average , so claims that would start SO DEEP would be a waste to search for.

Others may hit the lyst often enough and gold when their dices roll the higher interval , since their average with say 105 finder is above 500 from the tool and probably even higher from the excess skills.

Again , this is my gripe.

ALL other theories go out the window when i get close to 25% hit rate in PA only, and again only if the area was not previously mined. But hit below 10% marks in regions where , when i do find a claim , it is at 500 meters.

In that case there's OBVIOUSLY a minimum depth per region, why ? i don't know , but i do want to know where the minimum depth starts low enough for me to add said region to my bomb cycles.

 

[Lavawalker]

Here's a fast drawing i made to express my insanity:

you got the right approach, insanity is a prerequisite.

You will do well here in Entropia in time to come.

Search for a thread by Immortal on Mining depths for resources.

Then use Entropedia.info to cross reference areas where you can find some of the shallower finds

GL and have fun.

 

[Lavawalker]

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/mining/102363-mining-depths-data-ores-enmatters-finders.html


This may be of use to you also

http://www.jaxmap.net

 

[MegaDeth]

you got the right approach, insanity is a prerequisite.

You will do well here in Entropia in time to come.

Search for a thread by Immortal on Mining depths for resources.

Then use Entropedia.info to cross reference areas where you can find some of the shallower finds

GL and have fun.

Apparently I've been playing longer then you and made a mess of all my funds so .... iiii don't know about that , about insanity being a "good" prerequisite

Best approach to this game so far for me has been to gather stones and tens of thousands of fruits ... worked well till now.

I did search and check and reference , and believe you me , even if some ores have a minimum depth which is lower then the average of my finder, and i ransack only zones where i'd be likely to find them and nothing that starts deeper .... that does not mean i'll find anything below 300 range or that any are even in the ranges i require to sustain the profession, again, my example with ores found 450 meter or 500 meter deep but at a very low hit rate comes to mind.

If none of you believe me then try this; take a newbie , give him TT finder + excavator and 50 bombs , drag him kicking and screaming to an area where you find ores at 600 - 500 or 700 depths mostly and see how low BELOW 10% hit rate he goes before he runs out of bombs, you will then understand what i'm talking about.

 

[NeutrinoX]

Suscribing, I'm interested on knowing your discoveries regarding this.

 

[MegaDeth]

This may be of use to you also

http://www.jaxmap.net

I didn't know of this one, thank you kind sir for the pointer, I've bookmarked it for future study.

 

[Lavawalker]

I didn't know of this one, thank you kind sir for the pointer, I've bookmarked it for future study.

Your welcome

GL on the research.

 

[MegaDeth]

Suscribing, I'm interested on knowing your discoveries regarding this.

I hope i do get to the bottom of this, excuse the pun :>

Before i started mining i did extensive searches and lots of reading, and surprisingly this didn't came up.

For example, if i do a search of "average region depth" or abbreviations i get "Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms." and this is disturbing as, obviously, a newbie miner fails in more "advanced" areas where claims start a lot deeper.

And no one bothers to point out which areas are "newbie" oriented. Alas, that's the nature of a secretive professions as mining.

And that what i need to find, for myself at least.

 

[Harvest]

If none of you believe me then try this; take a newbie , give him TT finder + excavator and 50 bombs , drag him kicking and screaming to an area where you find ores at 600 - 500 or 700 depths mostly and see how low BELOW 10% hit rate he goes before he runs out of bombs, you will then understand what i'm talking about.

If its not there, its not there. We do take notes of where the rare stuff is but not to many notes are taken about where the lyst field was. Just like creatures spawn in generalized areas, so do minerals.

If you dont find, stop, move.

Good place to find common stuff, east of PA. Other good spots Ithica and Enchidna.

Spots you shouldnt go till your skills increase....the white areas and the area east of pvp2.