SPACE - The poor relation

[Granny Rowan]

I am seriously concerned that I made a poor choice when I decided to invest money in EU and purchased a Mothership. I am increasingly aware that MA see space as the poor relation...
They really don't seem to know what to do with this 'waste of space' between planets. Every VU we live in hope of something new to help revitalise it.. do they even read the suggestions made by players?

Now we have the roadmap.. 2 years of what is to come (yay ..surely something for us spacers)
I scoured it.. every word..several times.. but nothing for space ..again

and now it seems they can't even be bothered to reply to support cases relating to bugs in space.

2014-05-21 22:17
Posted to support an issue with the Kronan warping Ark to Caly sphere and being placed in centre of Caly TG
Had to use 2nd warp to get to destination (and no this is not a warp gate and no we were not warp-mined) Obviously full detail was given including the time of the incident

2014-05-23 17:49
Another incident Ark to Caly Spacestation warp ended in centre of Caly training grounds. Another add to my support case. Again details given including time

2014-05-27 20:19

At approx. 18.40 this evening I was warping the Kronan from Calypso to Cyrene, instead of arriving near Cyrene Spacestation we were yet again put into the middle of the Calypso training grounds, requiring us to use a second warp.
This has now occurred 3 times this week, and yet I have not had the courtesy of a reply to my support case.

I am beginning to understand why investors and lon-time players get disillusioned and quit.

Can we please get someone to look into this

TY

2014-05-30 12:30
Still no reply..

I am really wondering if they don't want me and my money in game why they don't just send me an e-mail telling me to ******off.

Is my frustration showing... hell I hope so.

and btw MA can we fix seating on the motherships so it works.. seems you busted even the few that did, as well as screwing up how people sit in vehicles, beauty chairs etc.. It is the stupid little things that really get to us..

 

[SoReal]

Yep there is so much potential sitting out there in space. We are always discussing this in soc chat and lots of SC's have been put in with suggestions.
Maybe some stuff is in the pipeline but its way too revealing even for the recent MA posts about being more transparent.

 

[minim]

Most players just hope that MA realize what a huge fuckup space is and remove it completly so don't get your hopes up!

 

[Doer]

Most players just hope that MA realize what a huge fuckup space is and remove it completly so don't get your hopes up!

Yeah i'd have to say this latter post much better reflects my attitude about space than the OP. Space as implemented does not fit in in any way with the nature and backstory of Calypso and EU and adds no value.

 

[Pretender]

i think david|MindArk posted he'd get some more details on it and post those soon (soon, ofcourse, has to be taken with a grain of salt as always with MA)

 

[Angel O2 Mercer]

Most players just hope that MA realize what a huge fuckup space is and remove it completly so don't get your hopes up!

My opinion too sadly because the concept is cool.

Just poor implementation. If MA removed space tomorrow I wouldn't care at all.

 

[SoReal]

Yeah i'd have to say this latter post much better reflects my attitude about space than the OP. Space as implemented does not fit in in any way with the nature and backstory of Calypso and EU and adds no value.

Thing is the game we are playing is called EU , entropia Universe , definition of Universe is :
the totality of known or supposed objects and phenomena throughout space; the cosmos; macrocosm.
(from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/universe)

So in theory we cant play EU without having space , which logicaly assumes that MA do have some cool plans for space development.

 

[John B Knight]

Yeah i'd have to say this latter post much better reflects my attitude about space than the OP. Space as implemented does not fit in in any way with the nature and backstory of Calypso and EU and adds no value.

Just imagine all hunting loot becomming avaiable at trade terminal without markup for 1 month as a economy test.
And then watch players complain about it and after it being disabled complain further about the increased diffulty of getting certain materials again.
Thats what you see in space - there was a time when there was only one planet and then a short time were people could go to other planets 100% safe instantly and people got used to this - then it all changed and people had to take risks to get to other planets allowing for markups to shift according to planetary needs.
Now we have people complaining how bad it all has gotten and that there is no value added because they cant see the big picture of were the actual value (markup) is generated/developed.
Addmitedly it is hard to see at times when everyone and their grandma can fly secure through lootable pvp by just logging out of the game and bypassing that part of the system.
Its sad to see that the promised fix in regards to this major issue is taking so long to get implemented ingame even though there have been lots of working solutions suggested over the last several years.
As long as this main issue isnt fixed the whole concept is bound to fail to really grow to the economic impact it otherwise could have had.
And more and more people get used to the 'bypass' expecting this to be how it should work and will therefor have even harder times to adapt afterwards when Mindark gets around to change it like they originally developed it to be.

This is only one of the many things that need attention fast and not just during 2015/16-> space is connecting all planets and it can have a huge impact on the success of all of these planets by keeping them separate and allowing their economies to become more selfsustaining instead of every economy living from calypso - but this takes the effort of not onlny mindark but all the planet partners as well to make sure their economies actually work for the player population their planets have and to help them grow from there.

To fullfill this purpose a few things need to happen to space:
- no logged out stackable transport / online travel required to move stuff
- stellar systems for the different planet partners in which subwarp travels make sence and huge distances to other star systems for which warp speed is a necessity
- jumpgates as alternative for smaller spacecrafts to reach other systems, but make it a challenge by positioning them well within pvp with quite some minutes of required subwarp flight time to the next spacestations security zone
- make jumpgates claimable so players can fight over controll -> this will allow for pvp fights that consume/decay materials continuously -> leading to demands for economic growth
- develop spacecrafts further: shields, different weapon types, different subwarp/warp drives, tools -> allowing for more different professions to be performed onboard -> giving a large amount of people a purpose for being space crew is essential of bringing life to space and really utilize this game area
- space mining / deep space mining operations / outposts
- space hunting/events/wave spawns (privateer/mothership and fleet level challenges) / robot/alien outposts

There is lots of other suggestions made over the last years that i wont refer to here but which would add in nicely to the points above and really help making a true universe out of entropia.

The question will be if the distant plan for entropia is having players jump from one instance to another without the need for interaction anymore or if being a so called virtual universe is supposed to mean making it truely immersive.

 

[Doer]

Just imagine all hunting loot becomming avaiable at trade terminal without markup for 1 month as a economy test.
And then watch players complain about it and after it being disabled complain further about the increased diffulty of getting certain materials again.
Thats what you see in space - there was a short time when there was only one planet* and then a time were people could go to other planets 100% safe instantly and people got used to this - then it all changed and people had to take risks to get to other planets allowing for markups to shift according to planetary needs.
Now we have people complaining how bad it all has gotten and that there is no value added because they cant see the big picture of were the actual value (markup) is generated/developed.
Addmitedly it is hard to see at times when everyone and their grandma can fly secure through lootable pvp by just logging out of the game and bypassing that part of the system..

* Approx 7 years out of 10

LOL who are you and what makes you think i'm going to buy your revisionist history of EU?

There are endless ways of creating markup that don't involve space as it is. I proposed that PP be accessed through a VR pod on Calypso (a VR game within the VR game) when they were announced because there's no reason any PPs with separate backstories should exist within EU/PE space. Space should have been developed as a dangerous, robot-infested solar system with the robot planets, asteroid mining, etc, not as a fantasy realm of planets with completely different settings within conventional propulsion distance but orbitting no star, and no sign of akbal, cimi, or the impending destruction due to a massive robot civilization.

Anyway clearly MA jumped the shark long ago but the joke currently known as space is not an integral part of EU and would be better off scrapped and the whole relationship between PPs and EU revised.

 

[minim]

markup and space? lol... space only ruins markup on items from other planets then calypso so that would not be noticed at all if space was removed.

 

[Few Scars]

Space is in need of its own development team. Just like Calypso. MA needs to either employ a new team specifically for space, or sell it to a new PP who can develop it.

 

[BenCoyote]

Don't give up the (Space)ship!

Well, i can see why you are frustrated Granny, and in fact I think it's about high time that Mindark actually starts to take that "Capsule" known as "Space" and really revise it into an actual working model.

Like i posted in another thread, No bucks, means no buck Rogers, and to the pilots who go out there every day (Including myself) We're Buck Rogers here.. So yeah if we were to quit (and I mean everyone in this forum were to quit the game then MA doesn't get it's bucks to make the "Buck Rogers" game work..

Sadly if Mindark was in it for the fun, they could look at a proposal that would actually make THEM money, instead of ignoring the issues with Space, and actually make Space a viable and vibrant COmmunity..

And yes I am working on a "Theoretical Space map, complete with Warp gates, with solutions to problems (Like outfitting quads with missles and other weapons that are craftable, and even new space ship ideas and designs..

I mean if I sat down and really worked this out, Like i said, Mind ark would be making more money than they would know what to do with (My advice would be to buy more servers, expand space evn furter, and take all those nuances I am proposing and make it work..

Barring that, I would say don't give up the ship, and in fact I have a solution to this..

Start a new case, and at the end of each case you send in say this..

Sincerely (Your name),
(A valued customer)..

Note that last line, MA wants you in the game, they want you to play, and in fact I'm getting results that actually are working.. It would be funny if they actually looked at the forums and ctually saw the proposed Space I would create and the ideas that come from a True Space..

If they don't want to respond, then they're losing income, and it's their incoome that they are losing..

So my advice is that they best read these posts, and start thinking.."These guys are serious players, we need them to keep this company going..

Barring that, maybe it's time to sell of f your assets MA and just after 11 years give it up.. (And yes I'm already looking at another game, and this game uses the same game engine, many varieties of space craft, and even ships that were designed by actual players who have the skills to do so..

So then, I would say, Don't give up the ship.. Cause this player is gonna lower the boom ehre and do a little butt chewing in the words of encouraging letters, and proposals..

(Which is why I would like to get others to get on board this band wagon and actuaally put in their input..) After all we're Buck Rogers, and if the word got out that we're not going to play.. what will it do to the company's reputation at developing a good sandbox game..?

So don't give up the ship, and in fact back me up on this one guys..

Benjamin Ben Coyote (Pilot call sign "Coyote")
a.k.a. "The Blind Sniper"

 

[HardWrath]

Space is in need of its own development team. Just like Calypso. MA needs to either employ a new team specifically for space, or sell it to a new PP who can develop it.

Who is even responsible for developing space? MA? Calypso?

 

[John B Knight]

Barring that, maybe it's time to sell of f your assets MA and just after 11 years give it up.. (And yes I'm already looking at another game, and this game uses the same game engine, many varieties of space craft, and even ships that were designed by actual players who have the skills to do so..

I personally like that certain space game which raised 44 million dollars in a years time through crowdfunding just by showing a clear vision, listening to their potential playerbase and letting them take part in the development process.
44 million dollars without the game actually being released, with minimal promotional costs as word of mouth has been spreading from player to player - money just for development of space.
There certainly is money to be made in listening to a playerbase and giving them the opportunity to contribute building/developing the game they love as well as giving them the feeling that their contributions are truely valued and being worked on.

I have personally offered feedback, suggestions, solutions even to fund space development for entropia directly - and many other players have sent in lots of support cases in regards to space to help in the bug fixing and further development and move space alpha into a real working space environment - it would be great to see these offers actually made use off.

 

[HardWrath]

I wonder if it would make more sense to sell deeds for space itself instead of developing a whole new system like Battle Arenas. With better communication, and a clear picture of the intermediate and long term vision, we wouldn't have to speculate, there would be more market certainty, and MA/PP would have an easier time raising capital and generating revenue.

 

[atomicstorm]

I particularly liked crashing during warp and coming back to a blown up ship.

 

[JD RACING]

for me i think space pvp kill most of it forcing poeple to go to other planet and making go to pvp

if they had a spot for pvp battle were you could kill mobs in space even have a planet you can land on and be all pvp i think it would be way more interesting than what it is now


now the way it is it kill some of the planet stoping from poeple to visit risking to loose what the loot they have or forcing them to tt everything before to go to another planet

the way it is now only reseller profit so your forcing poeple pvp for the sake of what 50 reseller

 

[Granny Rowan]

I particularly liked crashing during warp and coming back to a blown up ship.

and until MA can give us a stable platform this is exactly why they cannot remove logging off as an option. Players have no control over whether they will ctd during warp, let alone RL considerations like power outages, RL emergencies etc. Do you all seriously expect people to risk their trade goods to a system over which they ultimately have no control, insurance, assurance.

and before anyone points fingers.. I personally would love a system that enabled more risk taking in space... without risk it is just a boring time waste between planets... without activities in space other than travel
, it can never be a proper part of this game

where is asteroid mining? where is a place we can go try our skills, similar to a fort event area.. with reduced ped per shot? why is there no trade hub ? why no missions? why no battles against automated ships/bots ? safe routes for a quad, all twisty so that you have to fly for real.. maybe use of some real space physics (oops sorry forgot MA don't even know a Universe has a sun).
these and many other ideas could give space relevance.

Nebuolous promises and nothing in road map for 2 years.. will any of us be here to give a damn by then ?

 

[minim]

I personally would love a system that enabled more risk taking in space...

you and a few other MS owners. the rest just want to get that crap away before more planets go bankrupt. this is slowly killing planet partners since mostly people just return to calypso to sell the loot so the planet auctions never start to work like they should. Universal auction and you guys can mess around in space as much as you like.

 

[John B Knight]

you and a few other MS owners. the rest just want to get that crap away before more planets go bankrupt. this is slowly killing planet partners since mostly people just return to calypso to sell the loot so the planet auctions never start to work like they should. Universal auction and you guys can mess around in space as much as you like.

You are contradicting yourself - with no risk yes you are having all people selling at caly - with a high enough risk people would actually be selling on the planet they are on and dont bother carrying their stuff through space - leading to people actually living on planets instead of just hunting there once and then carrying everything back.
Universal auction for sure would allow everyone to trade goods for caly markup, but what you fail to see is that there would be more avaiabilty to all and less markup after all risks applied (since there wouldnt be any).
Next to the programmed avaiabilty and need of materials - cost, time, effort and risk are the determining factors on how much markup you can ask for a certain product - diminishing those factors will diminish markup and your chance on turning your 90% tt hunt into a profitable one.

In the early days of space calypso items have been selling for huge additonal markups on other planets, but the more people started figuring out how to dodge the systems risks, the less those markups became.

Materials from other planets were selling on calypso for higher markups too and those were decreasing ever further the more people started dodging risks in space.

You are getting your riskfree gaming experience when you stay on a single planet, its your choice when you want to take a risk for greater reward or entertainment, without it its all just a larger single planet with different textures.

The risk free current space (after applied 'bypass') is what truely kills other planet economies.

 

[mastermesh]

I am seriously concerned that I made a poor choice when I decided to invest money in EU...

enough said in that statement. You invested in to a game, instead of seeing your expense for what it is - an entertainment expenditure in a video game that is provided 'as is' according to the terms of eula.

 

[Shady]

you and a few other MS owners. the rest just want to get that crap away before more planets go bankrupt. this is slowly killing planet partners since mostly people just return to calypso to sell the loot so the planet auctions never start to work like they should. Universal auction and you guys can mess around in space as much as you like.

i would like more risk and im not spaceship owner nor have a friend that got any

anyway most of the ppl wishlist is bullshit because they dont want to see the big picture they only look in ther pocket

sometime im happy MA dont listen

 

[atomicstorm]

enough said in that statement. You invested in to a game, instead of seeing your expense for what it is - an entertainment expenditure in a video game that is provided 'as is' according to the terms of eula.

Unless you are saying this isn't an RCE, your comment is biased and subsequently invalid. EU is an investment apparatus in the form of a video game. Not exclusively a video game. Decisions should be made to reflect that and this is what Rowan has done. However, there is some bad faith on mindark part by still expanding when serious issues are still present. It seems, from a former game developer's point of view, that mindark is on a never ending squirrel hunt... never successfully finishing the original mission.

There is no reason why space couldn't become it's own planet partner. In fact, if I had the cash on hand, I would offer such a proposition.

The logoff exploit is why planets can't have their own economies. People just haul it back to calypso. I personally choose to sell and operate in arkadia, for the most part, and do not carry anything with me as I travel through space. So when micqueer or chances or butterfly or any of the other pirates shoot me down, they'll always get nothing and I always get free skills. Consider it my own mission to make them spend peds.

And for reference... I now own starfinder xiii. If efa doesn't pick me up to work within their fleet, then I'm sure I'll be doing my own thing or working within another structure for warps... if anyone within my network and others are interested.

 

[aridash]

space is a half hearted idea to fulfill a necessary strategic aim to keep the planet seperated. and at first the novelty may have made it worthwhile. it was never going to be more than an ellaborate "LA" with special vehicles and a few different mobs and might fill a niche for people wanting a FPS space sim. with Elite and Star Citizen on the horizon, seems that time to exploit that niche has been well missed. MA would be better off winding it down, rather than dedicating developers to it.

 

[billairboy]

space is a half hearted idea to fulfill a necessary strategic aim to keep the planet seperated. and at first the novelty may have made it worthwhile. it was never going to be more than an ellaborate "LA" with special vehicles and a few different mobs and might fill a niche for people wanting a FPS space sim. with Elite and Star Citizen on the horizon, seems that time to exploit that niche has been well missed. MA would be better off winding it down, rather than dedicating developers to it.

I think MA have bigger plans for it, but lack the time and resources to develop it more than they have, and other things have been more important. Also, with some planet partners struggling to survive, spending time and resources and developing the space that could draw players from the planets to the space could irritate some of the planet partners.

But I believe the space is an important part of the concept to create a "Universe", hopefully step by step they will create a space that have more content and purpose.

 

[aridash]

I think MA have bigger plans for it, but lack the time and resources to develop it more than they have, and other things have been more important.

you cant have bigger plans than those others have, which are focused 100% on the FPS space sim experience. i dont believe MA have the creativity to do something different or unusual (space pirates... actually might work simply because its so naff).

 

[Granny Rowan]

enough said in that statement. You invested in to a game, instead of seeing your expense for what it is - an entertainment expenditure in a video game that is provided 'as is' according to the terms of eula.

I meant in my choice of where I use that money in the game. I most certainly have not 'invested' money I cannot afford to use for play.

 

[HardWrath]

enough said in that statement. You invested in to a game, instead of seeing your expense for what it is - an entertainment expenditure in a video game that is provided 'as is' according to the terms of eula.

When you deposit and use the money for game play, that's entertainment.

When you deposit and purchase an asset, something that will earn money, that's an investment.

 

[sachi.mk2]

Feel sorry for the OP, could say something arrogant like "you invested x amount, your decision", space is seriously under-developed. I dislike how MA implement a system but leave it basically in beta stage testing for years on end. If you are gonna do something, do it right, and do the job proper first time around. Don't release a half-assed attempt.

 

[Hella]

Yeah i'd have to say this latter post much better reflects my attitude about space than the OP. Space as implemented does not fit in in any way with the nature and backstory of Calypso and EU and adds no value.

how does space not fit with Calyso backstory? How do you think these robot invasions get to Calypso from their home planet? Fly through nothingness?