Spaceship ethics.

[Joser]

Way to squirm out of it when asked for proof.

Isn't that precisely what you did?

Until you, or anyone else out there, can either prove an alternative way of spawning a spaceship exists, or Mindark clarifies with a straight answer, the idea that spaceships spawn by any other means is nothing more irrational beliefs.

Irrational beliefs? I'm going by what MA told us. It isn't a straight answer, but implication is the best we're going to get out of them.

Let me re-iterate my original statement for you.

Ahh... another thread based on "morals." The problem with morals is that everyone has their own idea of right/wrong. They then judge other people's actions based on their own morals. So... whose opinion of right/wrong is correct?

You obviously have your opinion set as to what is right and what is wrong. I haven't stated which side is right or wrong... mainly because I can see both sides of the argument. I can see people on both sides making rational decisions that lead to their conclusions. Either way, it's all a matter of opinion (to me).

 

[lillenecho]

everyone just get laid and stop whining about who is wrong and whos right?

Fact is easy.. in-game anyone who happens to run into a spaceship most likely will claim it,

On a forum that covers at the most 5-10% of the users this discussion is pointless... like most topic on EF

 

[Pirx Danford]

This thread reminds me of that one craft that appeared within the area of an estate and was only operatable for the owner of the estate

Anyhow I would like if MA would make claim papers for a miner finding a ship.
I would not like anyone getting (not stealing - getting) a ship I would spawn.
Its like in PvP as long as there is no system to protect everything is fair game.

I don't find it exciting at all to "race" to a ship it happens rarely enough (never since I am here for me and thats 2 years).

 

[DrSlinky]

Isn't that precisely what you did?

Do you really want me to go through this forum, and dig up every thread and picture of someone finding a strange signal while dropping bombs? We both know I'll find them. Can you provide links showing the strange signal detected any other way?

Irrational beliefs? I'm going by what MA told us. It isn't a straight answer, but implication is the best we're going to get out of them.

No, you're going by what you WANT them to have said. All they said is that "in this instance" the spaceship was spawned by a miner. They did not say there was another way to spawn a spaceship. They gave a nicely worded, vague answer allowing you, and anyone else, to presume whatever they want. In fact, the only fact that can be extracted from their statement is that miners do spawn spaceships.

This means that MA has stated that mining can cause spaceships. MA has not stated spaceships can be spawned by any other means. Nobody on this forum or in-game has shown any evidence that spaceships can be spawned by any other means.

Like I said in my previous post, feel free to prove me wrong. But it'll take evidence, not the mincing of words that would feel right at home in Washington DC.

 

[Joser]

Do you really want me to go through this forum, and dig up every thread and picture of someone finding a strange signal while dropping bombs? We both know I'll find them. Can you provide links showing the strange signal detected any other way?




No, you're going by what you WANT them to have said. All they said is that "in this instance" the spaceship was spawned by a miner. They did not say there was another way to spawn a spaceship. They gave a nicely worded, vague answer allowing you, and anyone else, to presume whatever they want. In fact, the only fact that can be extracted from their statement is that miners do spawn spaceships.

This means that MA has stated that mining can cause spaceships. MA has not stated spaceships can be spawned by any other means. Nobody on this forum or in-game has shown any evidence that spaceships can be spawned by any other means.

Like I said in my previous post, feel free to prove me wrong. But it'll take evidence, not the mincing of words that would feel right at home in Washington DC.

Fair enough. If we're going to derive facts from what MA said, they also said that the person claiming the spacheship (that he did not spawn) did nothing wrong. Is that clear enough for you?

 

[Vedder]

...
You can twist what I post any way you like...

You're doing the twisting, accusing me of not caring about right or wrong, when you know that's the not at all true.

...
but instead (in your own words) took half, and then somewhat agreed that it was greedy...

I did not somewhat agree that it was greedy. I think it was quite generous of me, considering it was rightfully my loot. I just felt sorry for the guy.
I wrote "greedy? maybe", because I know some people would see it differently, not because I think it was greedy at all.


And posting 10 full screens of bla bla high horse crap, even flattering yourself about how great you are, doesn't change anything.

 

[MadMark]

Another simple and fair solution:

The first one to press the red button gets the loot.
A bit more exciting, eh?

I have to agree. I've been PK'ed while having a globle on me & that was no ones fault but mine. I try to be nice to others, but at some points, you just gotta expect the worse. If your not ready for it, then its your own fault, just like it was mine. I didnt even get mad!!! Why, because IT WAS MY FAULT! Its a chance we all take. (well, most of us, lol) So in the end, I could go on... but just plan better... It helped me at least...

 

[Vhailor]

I quite miss the poll, in this topic... .
Is it possible to add one ?

 

[STYRM]

If I was running around somewhere and fell over on a roboship I would loot it. If it was PVP I would wait for the miner then kill him and then loot the ship while he was watching MOAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA............................................................................................................................................................MOAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..................................................................................MOAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH

 

[dj.]

This thread reminds me of that one craft that appeared within the area of an estate and was only operatable for the owner of the estate

I remember that, TI if i recall correctly.

Even tried to claim it, a few of us did

We couldnt, it belonged to the estate owner..

BUT HOW CAN THAT BE!!!?

Damn, surely ma doesn't want the Estate Holder to be unethical, immoral, a thief..GREEDY and to claim it themselves?

How rude!

NO WAIT... was the Estate Owner that dropped the bomb, must have been.

 

[Dunn]

Then the truth must be that as long as the ship doesent spawn on you land, pr apt, house etc... its free for all to claim..

 

[MadMark]

If I was running around somewhere and fell over on a roboship I would loot it. If it was PVP I would wait for the miner then kill him and then loot the ship while he was watching MOAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA............................................................................................................................................................MOAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..................................................................................MOAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH

Too funny!!! One of these decades, I "will" catch up to you! (I hope, lol)

 

[Vhailor]

I remember that, TI if i recall correctly.

Even tried to claim it, a few of us did

We couldnt, it belonged to the estate owner..

BUT HOW CAN THAT BE!!!?

Damn, surely ma doesn't want the Estate Holder to be unethical, immoral, a thief..GREEDY and to claim it themselves?

How rude!

NO WAIT... was the Estate Owner that dropped the bomb, must have been.

It's quite different if ship you spawned..you paid for spawn, is stolen by someone in front of your nose without giving you atleast few god-damned minutes, or ship is spawned near estate and considered as its part by still imperfect ingame mechanism.

note: i do not talk about abandoned spaceships for a while.

 

[Einstein]

By killing mobs I cause new mobs to spawn. If someone kills a mob, that i spawned because of my kills, and ATH's, did he steal my ATH?

 

[dj.]

It's quite different if ship you spawned..you paid for spawn, is stolen by someone in front of your nose without giving you atleast few god-damned minutes, or ship is spawned near estate and considered as its part by still imperfect ingame mechanism.

I know what you mean, I really do.

Seems to me some people are splitting hairs around here though.

Even MS9 if im correct, posted it 'may' be ok to claim a ship, if its obvious the person isnt coming back.

Well excuse me, but if its theft, immmoral, unethical, you shouldnt claim it AT ALL no?

If its not yours, then walk away..If you believe that

Further more, If I found someones wallet, Id hand it into the police station, I dont steal, I dont lie, I pay my own way.

Fundamentally I am a good person in the eyes of the law, and in what I see in the mirror.

So, with that in mind, why in Gods name do I find this pic funny!!?


https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/2/4/3/5/major_rage1.jpg




I do, yet, I neither find myself immoral/unethical/greedy or a thief.

People/well some, are far too judgemental.

 

[STYRM]

I know what you mean, I really do.

Seems to me some people are splitting hairs around here though.

Even MS9 if im correct, posted it 'may' be ok to claim a ship, if its obvious the person isnt coming back.

Well excuse me, but if its theft, immmoral, unethical, you shouldnt claim it AT ALL no?

If its not yours, then walk away..If you believe that

Further more, If I found someones wallet, Id hand it into the police station, I dont steal, I dont lie, I pay my own way.

Fundamentally I am a good person in the eyes of the law, and in what I see in the mirror.

So, with that in mind, why in Gods name do I find this pic funny!!?


https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/2/4/3/5/major_rage1.jpg




I do, yet, I neither find myself immoral/unethical/greedy or a thief.

People/well some, are far too judgemental.

lololololololol I even remember this incident.... major got to take crap from someone who was yelling at him for killing them and stealing their ship lololo priceless pic

 

[dj.]

lololololololol I even remember this incident.... major got to take crap from someone who was yelling at him for killing them and stealing their ship lololo priceless pic

Hehehe

Famous last words ...

"I found a ship"


hahahha hahahha

 

[STYRM]

Hehehe

Famous last words ...

"I found a ship"


hahahha hahahha

yeah soooo funny, Im gonna but that pic up on my wall loool

 

[Vhailor]

I know what you mean, I really do.

Seems to me some people are splitting hairs around here though.

Even MS9 if im correct, posted it 'may' be ok to claim a ship, if its obvious the person isnt coming back.

Well excuse me, but if its theft, immmoral, unethical, you shouldnt claim it AT ALL no?

If its not yours, then walk away..If you believe that

Further more, If I found someones wallet, Id hand it into the police station, I dont steal, I dont lie, I pay my own way.

Fundamentally I am a good person in the eyes of the law, and in what I see in the mirror.

So, with that in mind, why in Gods name do I find this pic funny!!?


https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/2/4/3/5/major_rage1.jpg




I do, yet, I neither find myself immoral/unethical/greedy or a thief.

People/well some, are far too judgemental.

Thx for the reply.
Often i don't even carry ammo, so ofcourse i wouldn't make any demands on spaceship if i spawned it. Bad luck. Same if i get killed, disconected etc. like MindArk stated itself. "Its on player if he will hand it back" I wouldn't even bother run back tbh.

If i would find someone else's ship ? I would give him atleast few minutes as basic courtesy. If he is on radar, i wouldnt even bother come near.

But would i have consider it as thievery if i spawned it and it got "owned" by someone before i was even able to get there ? Yes, i'm sorry but i can't change my stance here, no matter how hard i would try.


p.s. i noticed...on some screenies the users GUI looks bit differently (e.g. your screenie) than i see on my monitor when i play. Is that from (old) Project Entropia ?

Edit:

By killing mobs I cause new mobs to spawn. If someone kills a mob, that i spawned because of my kills, and ATH's, did he steal my ATH?

I thought mobs are spawned and despawned as you are entering leaving area ? and only damaged ones remains ? Would you consider it ok, if you were eco shooting mob, but someone with stonger danage would kill it in instant and get ATH ?

 

[STYRM]

p.s. i noticed...on some screenies the users GUI looks bit differently (e.g. your screenie) than i see on my monitor when i play. Is that from (old) Project Entropia ?

Edit:



yes, that's from around 2 years ago if I remember correct

 

[Einstein]

I thought mobs are spawned and despawned as you are entering leaving area ? and only damaged ones remains ?

Then you thought wrong

Would you consider it ok, if you were eco shooting mob, but someone with stonger danage would kill it in instant and get ATH ?

I never made a judgement wether I think it's ok to claim a spaceship that is spawned by someone else.
I just asked a question ... I think theoraticly the situation is the same only that with spaceships their is a direct link with the miner. The miner knows he spawned the spaceship. With hunting it's alot harder to prove.

So if we say someone that claims a spaceship that was created by someone elses actions is a thief. Are all hunters thiefs then, because they unknowingly steal mobs that were spawned by other hunters.


And to answer your question I usually don't enjoy killstealing altho from time to time it can be funny

 

[dutch chap]

I also believe the spaceship is spawned by mining, so i will wait a couple of minutes if i find an unattended one to see if the miner shows up. If he doesn't i don't feel bad, or a thief, at all for pressing the button myself. The very fact that MA allows us to do that means it IS just courtesy to wait for the miner. If the ship belongs to the miner MA would have made it impossible to claim by others, just like with normal mining claims.

In my opinion MA intentionally made it claimable by who-ever is the 1st to press the button for the sole reason to add excitement to finding a spaceship.

If it belongs to the miner by design, they would have made that impossible.

That said, i DO believe it is the miner that causes it to spawn, so out of courtesy i will wait a bit for him/her. If they take too long.... well, better luck next time



When i find one myself it IS more exciting simply by the fact i know someone else can press the button too, so i rush over to the ship as quickly as possible while hoping not to crash or whatever. That DOES add something extra. really

 

[Vhailor]

yes, that's from around 2 years ago if I remember correct

Thank you.

Then you thought wrong

Alright then. Not that it would bother me too much

I never made a judgement wether I think it's ok to claim a spaceship that is spawned by someone else.
I just asked a question ... I think theoraticly the situation is the same only that with spaceships their is a direct link with the miner. The miner knows he spawned the spaceship. With hunting it's alot harder to prove.

So if we say someone that claims a spaceship that was created by someone elses actions is a thief. Are all hunters thiefs then, because they unknowingly steal mobs that were spawned by other hunters.

I agree...
Technicaly it's very simmilar if not same...
but you mentioned about one is doing it unknowingly, but also indirectly between the lines stated that another is doing it purposely...as from spaceship you always extort 50+PED. Miner knows it, so does the hunter.
And with reply from MA is also proven who and how spawned the loot.

And dunno, i don't shoot mobs in very same area as another hunter, to prevent any missunderstandings about stolen kills/ possible nice loot. if there is well proven (by MA confirmed) evidence how the loot ammount is generated in killed creature at all anyway.

And to answer your question I usually enjoy killstealing altho from time to time it can be funny

YAYZ!! Good for you.
---

Anyway it's 1:57am here and im too tired for this so good night.

 

[Einstein]

YAYZ!! Good for you.
---

I meant don't

 

[Pike]

It's quite different if ship you spawned..you paid for spawn, is stolen by someone in front of your nose without giving you atleast few god-damned minutes, or ship is spawned near estate and considered as its part by still imperfect ingame mechanism.

...as from spaceship you always extort 50+PED. Miner knows it, so does the hunter.

I still object to the idea that claiming an unclaimed spaceship can be seen as stealing, extortion or even immoral. How is it possible to steal a spaceship from a miner if they don't own the spaceship? The idea that spawning a spaceship gives automatic ownership of the spaceship is not based in fact. It seems unfair that you lable anyone who would feel morally justified in claiming an unclaimed spaceship a thief.

Spawning a spaceship and claiming a spaceship are clearly two different things. I can't understand how you (and many others in this thread) have turned 'I spawned it' into 'I own it'. Do you not see a difference between the two statments?


O/T: I got a quality - rep from someone due to my comments in this thread. It was a one word comment, simple and to the point: "Asshole".... He's probably right. (The comment was not made by anyone who has posted in this thread.)

 

[kingjoe1974]

HaHa,

Some of these post are funny, I have a better Idea, why dont they not fix the big red button and instead allow me to mine your claims, or wait let me loot your kill. How would that be, your out mining and you HOF and I run up and start extracting your claim, wouldn't like that would you, or better yet, I stand there and wait for you to put the finial blow on a MOB then I loot it for you. Seems to me this is what your saying, not fixing the big red button is the same as kill steals.

I implore you to prove me wrong on this.

MA, fix the big red button, you know this is the correct thing to do. It was an oversight I am sure, but the time has come to fix it.

For the rest of you who agree that the button dont need to be fixed, I purpose that we allow all players free right to do as he or she pleases including mining your cliams, taking your loot, etc...

 

[Cloud]

Some people seem to see that ethics are valuable and some seem to disagree.
Some put forward that morals or ethics are totally subjective and that everyone has a version and no one can have better or best ethics.
I would disagree, i think morals and ethics are the base structure of a stable and progressive society.With a poor base the society has lesser chance of a positive future for all it's inhabitants.

An interesting book that is relevant to this topic to some degree is Lord Of The Flies.
It's not identical but it does show the polarity that exists here, and quite clearly one of the tribes was less righteous than the other, particularly if you were on the wrong side and were killed,lol.
On an individual level we can all do as we want, but what we do forms a collective of actions that create a union of ethics and morals.
Because it's fun to steal something in EU or is exciting for some it doesnt make it right or justifiable.
If you're walking through Times square and you see someone counting money do you run over and take?
If you do in our real world society you could get beat up or killed or arrested and put in jail.This is based on ethics.

What stable and existing society is based on dog eat dog and 'i took something off someone else because it was fun"?

All this being said there are standards for ethics and morals and the people that suggest everyone has an opinion of what makes proper morals so therefore no one can be wrong, have not thought through the philosophy,imo.
A society determines what is respectable and what is dishonorable.
We are a society.
If we discuss these things we can often discuss topics and form compromised conclusions that favor everybody as much as possible.
We dont just favor the strong because they are strong and we dont just exploit the weak or ignorant because they are weak.
We could form an attitude where fun, excitement and the compromised best interests of all are taken into account.

People here like to say this is more than a game and its a community etc, well a community or society needs self determination to some degree.
If you just want dog eat dog then dont expect a long and great future, if you want some structure and rights then the future holds promise and longevity.

Does MA have to be the author of everything or are we able to form our own standards also?

Do we really need a Gort?

Cloud

 

[Cloud]

So if we say someone that claims a spaceship that was created by someone elses actions is a thief. Are all hunters thiefs then, because they unknowingly steal mobs that were spawned by other hunters.

Hi Einstein, i feel that analogy is invalid as spawning a spaceship is a secondary reaction from a mining action.
A mob will just respawn after it is killed.

For your anology regarding the mob respawn to be valid you would have to be able to shoot a spaceship and then have it respawn automatically in the next hour or so, or to bring it to a practical level the spaceship, after being discovered via mining spawn would need to respawn in an hour or so after being looted, but this scenario cant exist.

And if that were the case they would have nothing to do with the miner and would just become another Mob, of sorts, like a Defender.

(Not sure if i've worded that perfectly but i hope you can see my point )


Cloud

 

[vizvayu]

IMO stealing a spaceship is just wrong. Just because you can do it doesn't mean that you should. I'm really worried about kids in this times, they seem to believe that if there's no rule against it they are free to do anything without consequences, but they doesn't seem to understand that freedom and resposibility are just two faces of the same thing.

 

[HellspawnSatans]

Many in this post are missing one thing IN ALL this.

This is an in game mechanic. IT IS WORKING AS INTENDED!

Just like getting looted in PVP, it is a IN GAME MECHANIC. This is a game in which there are activities for those not interested in TOP GAME wins. Some people are into this game for the pvp, Land grabs, events, or whatever.

So you are mining do da do....runnin along in Lootable PVP.....Now out of courtesy someone waits to loot your precious spaceship....HAHAHA.....you loot it....you die....you get looted for your 50 ped of stackables + whatever else you found that run. HAHA!

Now that is courteous, don't yall think. And somehow, someway, someone reading this will say....but but but that isn't fair.....Cry more nOOb! Some things in this game are intended for Survival of the Fitest.....Some things are not....so go sweat some more

Mike aKa Hellspawn Hellspawn Satans