Spaceship ethics.

[Artrat]

This has nothing to do with EU coz' if u find valuable thing u should bring it to proper authorities, I bet most of western countries has these kind of rules.

As in EU, MA states that items lying on the ground a free to pick up by anyone.

I will concede that my argument is legally flawed (Although I'm not sure about South Africa - Roman/Dutch legal system, trying to find out but wiki is down for me , anyway back on topic)

I'm not trying to make statement about the (il)legality of the issue. Clearly, it is the way it is because that the way MA wants it to be (or they are too lazy to change it). All I'm saying is that, based on the little evidence that we have as to how a spaceship is spawned, the miner who detected it should have first shot at it, and although someone else looting it is perfectly permissable according to the rules of the game, it's still a pretty shitty thing to do. (Wow, that was a long sentence)

In EU, as in real life, there are many things that we are "allowed" to do, but probably shouldn't anyway, in the interests of world peace etc.

 

[STYRM]

it's the same as if you get a claim in pvp3/4. it's not yours until you mine it and are out of the zone. it is up for taking for everyone until your click the button or your out of the pvp zone.

 

[Raffaele Meiers]

I don't have to tell about KS, but about the robot ship. Long time ago you could find items lying on the ground, you just picked it up (or not) and that's it. Finders keepers. How did those items "spawned" there, nobody cares. Who owned those items? MA has stated that items lying on the ground are "public domain", who picks it up owns it. Finders keepers.

MA has stated that space ships can also be "spawned" by other means than mining. How does a miner know if the ship has been there before he dropped a bomb? He don't. His finder activates and scans the signals after the detonation of the probe (and maybe finds spaceships signal), but was the ship there before detonation or not? There has been numerous reports ppl finding ships with no miners nearby. So this myth about "only mining triggers spaceships" was born coz' only miners have equipment to detect a ship from outside of visual range. Call the Mythbusters!

Back to the items lying on the ground. A spaceship is an item lying on the ground and therefore it's "public domain" and who loots it, owns the loot. Finders keepers. No matter what has triggered the spawning of the ship.

So if you loose your wallet it's lyinig in public domain and anyone can keep it... luckily for you there are a lot opf people with moral out there, OK maybe not where you live...


PS: Again someone reading into MA's post what he wants

 

[Wormie]

So if you loose your wallet it's lyinig in public domain and anyone can keep it... luckily for you there are a lot opf people with moral out there, OK maybe not where you live...

Erm... I thought that we were talking about Entropia Universe, which is a game. And in that game when you drop something on the ground, a warning pops up. It warns you that anyone could pick up the item you're dropping.

P.S I don't live in Entropia Universe

 

[dutch chap]

If i would find 5 dollar IRL, no wallet with name and address, just the 5 dollar, then i would pick it up and keep it.

If i would find those same 5 dollar, but this time with a person nearby going in circles with his nose to the ground clearly searching for something, i would ask what he is searching for. If he then says "5 dollars" i would give it back to him cause its clearly his.

Furthermore, as Wormie and others has said before, this is a GAME, not real life. Things in a game can be made impossible by design, games usually have different sets of rules than RL as well. That doesn't mean i'm an asshole ingame, or unfair, i DO wait to see if a miner shows up, but imo it's completely fair game to take the ship myself after a couple of minutes (like with finding that 5 dollar IRL).

Lots of things in a game can't be compared with RL. Some people here say "simply because you CAN do it, doesn't mean you SHOULD do it", which is true, BUT.....

In real life i CAN go out with a rifle and kill people, but i don't.... but, i HAVE killed people in this game although its not a hobby of mine. Does that make me an unfair heartless guy without morals now? OR am i just playing by the gamerules?

In real life i CAN go out and kill all kinds of animals, but i don't... while i kill many animals in game every day. Same question... am i a heartless immoral guy now?

Finding a spaceship without a miner nearby is the same for me as finding 5 dollar IRL without it being clear who's money it is. That the ship can be claimed by anyone is a game feature. Because i believe it is spawned by a miner i think it is fair to wait a little for a miner to show up, but that is as far as it goes.

It's a game people, some rules are different than in real life. Be honest and friendly just as in real life, but if you want to apply ALL your real life ethics into this game then you cant play at all. You can't kill any people or animals anymore then, you can't participate in a landgrab anymore either (or do you go out in real life trying to conquer some-one else's land?).

Try to be honest and fair, wait a bit for the miner, but after awhile just press the damn button It's a game feature, just like pvp or killing mobs. Really.

 

[Rowdoc]

Here's what MA says about it:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/mining/109603-spaceships.html

Some days ago i claimed a spaceship that apeared in front of me when a miner was close to the place and he told me that i took his spaceship.

As i wasn't really sure if a spaceship is the result of a miner's action - dropping a bomb/prob - i send a support case to MA to clarify that matter.
This is the answer :

First of all I would like to clarify you did not do anything wrong, in this case the spaceship indeed was a result of mining, but sometimes the miner can not take the spaceship because they get killed/disconnected or from some other reason.
It will be up to you to decide if you want to give it back to the miner that extracted it.

The important part is ' in this case the spaceship indeed was a result of mining' that suggests that the spawn is not always because of mining. Maybe MA are just jerking our chain
With regards to the HOF list, yes they are mining but there is no "ship" catergory.
I think it was MA's intention to make 'ships' just for miners, they simply give the miners the global instantly , no bots & no button ..like someone else mentioned it like mining ..it claim is not yours until you have drilled. (regardless of where you are ) I have sopme claim which I couldn't drill duie to there positions ( on a mountain cliff that I could not climb) that's EU

 

[dj.]

If i would find 5 dollar IRL, no wallet with name and address, just the 5 dollar, then i would pick it up and keep it.

If i would find those same 5 dollar, but this time with a person nearby going in circles with his nose to the ground clearly searching for something, i would ask what he is searching for. If he then says "5 dollars" i would give it back to him cause its clearly his.

Furthermore, as Wormie and others has said before, this is a GAME, not real life. Things in a game can be made impossible by design, games usually have different sets of rules than RL as well. That doesn't mean i'm an asshole ingame, or unfair, i DO wait to see if a miner shows up, but imo it's completely fair game to take the ship myself after a couple of minutes (like with finding that 5 dollar IRL).

Lots of things in a game can't be compared with RL. Some people here say "simply because you CAN do it, doesn't mean you SHOULD do it", which is true, BUT.....

In real life i CAN go out with a rifle and kill people, but i don't.... but, i HAVE killed people in this game although its not a hobby of mine. Does that make me an unfair heartless guy without morals now? OR am i just playing by the gamerules?

In real life i CAN go out and kill all kinds of animals, but i don't... while i kill many animals in game every day. Same question... am i a heartless immoral guy now?

Finding a spaceship without a miner nearby is the same for me as finding 5 dollar IRL without it being clear who's money it is. That the ship can be claimed by anyone is a game feature. Because i believe it is spawned by a miner i think it is fair to wait a little for a miner to show up, but that is as far as it goes.

It's a game people, some rules are different than in real life. Be honest and friendly just as in real life, but if you want to apply ALL your real life ethics into this game then you cant play at all. You can't kill any people or animals anymore then, you can't participate in a landgrab anymore either (or do you go out in real life trying to conquer some-one else's land?).

Try to be honest and fair, wait a bit for the miner, but after awhile just press the damn button It's a game feature, just like pvp or killing mobs. Really.

Flippin'eck, who rattled your cage, stop gassing and go drop some bombs

 

[dutch chap]

Flippin'eck, who rattled your cage, stop gassing and go drop some bombs

Just getting a bit tired of the 1:1 comparrisson of RL and ingame rules, just like in that "personal bubble" thread and many others



Say i am playing soccer and i am on my way to the opponents goal to score. I have a clear path and i am pretty sure i will make the goal, but then..... someone rushes in and tackles me in a way that is allowed by the game rules.

Do i then go whining that it's unfair he didn't let me score?

As long as he tackled me in a way that is allowed by the rules there's no harm done. It's how the game is.


That's doesn't mean i think it's allowed or okay to tackle random people in a grocery store or whatever



*off to drop some bombs*

 

[Vues3d]

The thing that really sucks is when I got the "strange signal" and the ship appears exactly at 200 meters from me, but exactly at the place where another player is.
This happened 2 times...

The thing I especially HATE is when the f................ unfair player says also "thanx for the gift"...
So, I agree that NO ONE ELSE than the player should have the right to push the red button (at least for a little while)... maybe even 5 mins... because the MINER is always 200 meters... but other players not.. so, if you get disconnected, too heavy, or whatever, this is unfair... you lost your bomb & your Glob (or beacon).

 

[Vues3d]

Say i am playing soccer and i am on my way to the opponents goal to score. I have a clear path and i am pretty sure i will make the goal, but then..... someone rushes in and tackles me in a way that is allowed by the game rules.

Do i then go whining that it's unfair he didn't let me score?

Do we have to remind that EU is an EXPENSIVE game & when you're mining with amps, sometimes one bomb costs 25 peds!?!?
So, to have a little priority on this would be the less than MA could do!

 

[Sirhc]

Just getting a bit tired of the 1:1 comparrisson of RL and ingame rules, just like in that "personal bubble" thread and many others

Money is Money whether its in EU or RL so the same principles should apply in certain cases. While you cannot compare every situation in EU to RL there are many lessons you can take from RL that apply to EU and vice versa.

If people used the excuse "well EU is just a game I can do anything" and did not have some personal boundaries and know what is right and wrong in some instances I think EU would be quite different than what it is today.

Just as an example: I have a gut feeling that anyone who would confidence scam a friend in EU would probably do the same in RL given the opportunity. Someone who is a real A-hole in real life eventually it will show up in the virtual world.

Whether you like it or not some of the social aspects of EU are a mirror of social aspects in the real world. People can't help being who they are no matter where they are.

So there will always be 1:1 RL and VL comparisons in EU because you are dealing with real people. Being in EU doesnt wash away the fact that you are a living breathing human Bean controlling that avatar.

That is just my opinion though

 

[Raffaele Meiers]

Can please direct to this proof? I'm really curious as I have never seen any proof that miners are directly responible for the ship spawn .. (I mean evidence that shows (video or series of screenies ) the 3 bots red dots appear on radar at same time as the finder is used ) ..anything is just evidence that finder can location the ship.

I do find it funny that players get some upset this kind of thing ...if you are there & you press the button it's yours ( what you do with loot afterwards you find is up to you) ..sorry but that's part of the game mechinics ..just like 51% dmg & you claim ..please don't get me wrong , I'm not suggesting Ksing or ship stealling

So the fact that when you global on a robot spaceship this will be in the Mining HoF section is not something that points into the direction that mining let the spaceships spawn??

I think until you show me a HoF entry with robot ship in hunting section or crafting section there is no indication that anyone else than miner can trigger a spaceship.

 

[Raffaele Meiers]

...
One is not condoned by MA, the other is. With killstealing you are attempting to take something which someone else can lay a legitimate claim to. I do not see how this realtes to spaceships, please enlighten me.

So where is the banned player by MA for ks'ing if there is any?

And how can someone lay a claim on a mob that has more than 50% health left? There is no label on it that says this mob belongs to XX XX XX

If you encounter a mob with more than 50% health and no green dot around is it KS'ing to kil the mob? If the green dot is around and you do more than 50% dmg and loot it is it ks'ing?


I think you can draw the analogy by yourselve, if IQ too low here it is:

If ship is abadonned its same as mob with more than 50% health and no hunter around (grace periode for revival or 200 meter run from miner), if green dot is around but you have enough powerfull weapons to KS his mob its the same as looting the spaceship outrunning the miner.

With first thing I do not have a problem with second I think it is the moral of the person that is flawed and this is something not only valid in virtual universe but also in real live. Such people even when hiding behind their interpretation of what is right or what is wrong allways will show in the end that the first impression they gave is true, for me this kind of people have about the same worth as dung on the floor.

 

[Pike]

I think you can draw the analogy by yourselve, if IQ too low here it is:

If ship is abadonned its same as mob with more than 50% health and no hunter around (grace periode for revival or 200 meter run from miner), if green dot is around but you have enough powerfull weapons to KS his mob its the same as looting the spaceship outrunning the miner.

Killstealing is harassment, claiming an unclaimed spaceship isn't. Perhaps my low IQ is clouding the issue though. You still haven't explained how spawning a spaceship relates to owning a spaceship. Can you please explain this? Once more, my low IQ is obviously incapable of working this out.

For my part, this debate appears to have become stagnated. It has become impossible for me to post anything without sounding like a broken record so I'm going to try and pull myself away from the debate. Most of my opinions on the subject are already documented in previous posts. I'm off to break a few MA-103's.... Who knows, maybe i'll find a spaceship.

 

[Wormie]

And how can someone lay a claim on a mob that has more than 50% health left? There is no label on it that says this mob belongs to XX XX XX

And how can someone lay claim on a spaceship? There is no label that says this spaceship belongs to XXXXXXX.

 

[Artrat]

I'm off to break a few MA-103's.... Who knows, maybe i'll find a spaceship.

Hasn't worked for me

But you are right, I think this debate has run it's course. I'm going to agree to disagree and get back to mining

 

[Raffaele Meiers]

And how can someone lay claim on a spaceship? There is no label that says this spaceship belongs to XXXXXXX.

LOL that is a nice turn, first "stealing" mobs is KS'ing and "stealing" Spaceship not now you say there is no label on a spaceship so it belongs to no one. BTW there is also no label on any mob that it belongs to someone so KS'ing is the same thing as takeing a Spaceship witch another avatar has made apearing.

So with the same right you take a spaceship witch you discover while not mining someone can take your mob and loot it when he is quicker in delivering more than 50% of the damage(reach red button bevor you reach it)

PS: Once again I belive that the sole reason you do not get a claim deed and the ship is lootable by anyone is that MindArk's programmer stopped halve way into the developing of the spaceships because either the programmer left or head of development needed him to program some Makeup stuff etc.
MindArk has proved over and over again that they develope a system, try to program it and stop at around 50% with finishing it(tradeable claim deeds, Taiming etc. etc. etc.) MindArk proved it again and again that they have great ideas but stop at around 50% in developing it to the end because some other things need their attention like textures, Makeup stuff or whatever they can think of to get more decay in.

 

[STYRM]

LOL that is a nice turn, first "stealing" mobs is KS'ing and "stealing" Spaceship not now you say there is no label on a spaceship so it belongs to no one. BTW there is also no label on any mob that it belongs to someone so KS'ing is the same thing as takeing a Spaceship witch another avatar has made apearing.

So with the same right you take a spaceship witch you discover while not mining someone can take your mob and loot it when he is quicker in delivering more than 50% of the damage(reach red button bevor you reach it)

PS: Once again I belive that the sole reason you do not get a claim deed and the ship is lootable by anyone is that MindArk's programmer stopped halve way into the developing of the spaceships because either the programmer left or head of development needed him to program some Makeup stuff etc.
MindArk has proved over and over again that they develope a system, try to program it and stop at around 50% with finishing it(tradeable claim deeds, Taiming etc. etc. etc.) MindArk proved it again and again that they have great ideas but stop at around 50% in developing it to the end because some other things need their attention like textures, Makeup stuff or whatever they can think of to get more decay in.

lol if you really believe that then why don't you just give up and leave? start playing wow or some other crap where you get rewarded all the time, and where they have 100's of programmer who can spit out a storyline in one day..

is this going to be wow? were you sneeze on a mob and it's yours? wheres the fun in that? we are thousands of ppl here and everyone of those can't be nice, some of them have to be "the evil ones" and they need the help from MA to be evil such as: more than 50% dmg gets loot, first to click button gets roboship, resellers, pk'ers and more...

 

[Cloud]

lol if you really believe that then why don't you just give up and leave? start playing wow or some other crap where you get rewarded all the time, and where they have 100's of programmer who can spit out a storyline in one day..

is this going to be wow? were you sneeze on a mob and it's yours? wheres the fun in that? we are thousands of ppl here and everyone of those can't be nice, some of them have to be "the evil ones" and they need the help from MA to be evil such as: more than 50% dmg gets loot, first to click button gets roboship, resellers, pk'ers and more...

Hi Styrm, i dont know if you played WOW but if you did you would know that the Instances of the likes of Karazhan and higher require 20 plus people working in unison like a military unit in a manner that you have never seen occur in EU.
The organisation and skills required in high level WOW instances make hunting in EU look like \kindergarten play.
The Land grab and WoF organisational skill requirements pale into insignificance.

Not having a go at you just pointing out that your comparison was totally invalid.

That said i enjoy EU also

I would also have to add Blizzard is one of the most professional game makers on the planet, cant really compare what EU game makers do to the Blizzard boys.

Credit where credit is due.

Cloud

 

[dutch chap]

Money is Money whether its in EU or RL so the same principles should apply in certain cases. While you cannot compare every situation in EU to RL there are many lessons you can take from RL that apply to EU and vice versa.

If people used the excuse "well EU is just a game I can do anything" and did not have some personal boundaries and know what is right and wrong in some instances I think EU would be quite different than what it is today.

Just as an example: I have a gut feeling that anyone who would confidence scam a friend in EU would probably do the same in RL given the opportunity. Someone who is a real A-hole in real life eventually it will show up in the virtual world.

Whether you like it or not some of the social aspects of EU are a mirror of social aspects in the real world. People can't help being who they are no matter where they are.

So there will always be 1:1 RL and VL comparisons in EU because you are dealing with real people. Being in EU doesnt wash away the fact that you are a living breathing human Bean controlling that avatar.

That is just my opinion though

My posts are about people that apply every RL ethic to EVERY ingame situation, like with the spaceship. You just cant do that. Some things are perfectly acceptable ingame, by design, because they are meant to be that way, because they are PART of the game.

If we would play soccer against eachother and you tackle me on my way to the goal, would that THEN mean you are an asshole outside the pitch? Or is that just you playing by the soccer rules? Assuming you made a fair tackle ofc

If you PK me ingame, would you shoot me IRL as well then?

Then again, there are fair and unfair ways to play the game, just as in my soccer example (imagine a tackle at my knees). But as long as you play fair and by the rules, all is okay in my book.

Waiting for the miner is fair but if he takes ages or doens't show up...
As it is fair and sportsmens like to wait till i finished a mob before you PK me.
As it is fair to NOT shoot a mob someone is busy with, but that unattended mob in his vicinity is fair game. etc. etc.

 

[STYRM]

Hi Styrm, i dont know if you played WOW but if you did you would know that the Instances of the likes of Karazhan and higher require 20 plus people working in unison like a military unit in a manner that you have never seen occur in EU.
The organisation and skills required in high level WOW instances make hunting in EU look like \kindergarten play.
The Land grab and WoF organisational skill requirements pale into insignificance.

Not having a go at you just pointing out that your comparison was totally invalid.

That said i enjoy EU also

I would also have to add Blizzard is one of the most professional game makers on the planet, cant really compare what EU game makers do to the Blizzard boys.

Credit where credit is due.

Cloud

yes I played wow for some days and hated it.. so I stopped playing. I know that you need alot of rl skills in games and you would not get anywhere if you didn't have those skills. I have played alot of fps games in my life and I learned the things that made me better. but thats a game, and a game is supposed to give us rewards if we get more skilled.. EU aint such a game, but many ppl seems to believe that. this is a virtual universe were you can choose to be evil if you want as long that you follow the rules of MA. It is allowed to profit on other ppl just like irl. ok we don't kill eachother irl....oh yes we do.. and we do scam irl...and we do steal others property irl... and we are greedy irl... so if you want another fantasy world to live in where no one can't hurt you, go play wow...

 

[Joser]

The organisation and skills required in high level WOW instances make hunting in EU look like \kindergarten play.
The Land grab and WoF organisational skill requirements pale into insignificance.

Wow. I take it you participated in both LG and the WoF? Otherwise I see no way you could realize the actual organization involved. Either know what you're talking about first-hand, or kindly excuse yourself.

 

[Raffaele Meiers]

Hear Hear, I think this is really the difference, also the rest dutch chap wrote is very good but this sums it up very nicely:

...
Waiting for the miner is fair but if he takes ages or doens't show up...
As it is fair and sportsmens like to wait till i finished a mob before you PK me.
As it is fair to NOT shoot a mob someone is busy with, but that unattended mob in his vicinity is fair game. etc. etc.

There are like in RL unwritten rules and written rules and the things above are for me as important as the EULA of MA.

 

[xentric]

Once more, my low IQ is obviously incapable of working this out.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean it is right to do it. Is this in simple enough terms for you to understand?

 

[Joser]

Just because you can do something doesn't mean it is right to do it. Is this in simple enough terms for you to understand?

What you consider right, others may not. Is that simple enough for you?

 

[STYRM]

Just because you can do something doesn't mean it is right to do it. Is this in simple enough terms for you to understand?

and if he understands that it is moraly wrong to do something he can choose to do it anyway.. just like irl. he might know that some ppl will dislike him for it but he don't have to care about that.

 

[xentric]

What you consider right, others may not. Is that simple enough for you?

My post was in response to the argument that "because the system created by MA allows it, It is ethically correct" as posted ad nauseum in this thread.
I am fully aware that different people have different moral values. I'm not quite sure where you got the idea that I didn't understand this.

and if he understands that it is moraly wrong to do something he can choose to do it anyway.. just like irl. he might know that some ppl will dislike him for it but he don't have to care about that.

I think that is stating the obvious

For the record, I would wait before claiming a spaceship that wasn't spawned/detected by myself, to see if the rightful owner(imo) appears.

The people I choose to surround myself with both in-game and irl are those that share my moral values.

 

[STYRM]

The people I choose to surround myself with both in-game and irl are those that share my moral values.

yes, good for you...

but you have to take in consideration that this is a mmoRPG.. ROLE PLAYING GAME. a guy could be the best freind ever irl, but he might have a dark side in MMORPG's

just like Batman or something.. he is a regular guy in the days but at night he becomes KYLL KYLLINGBEIN or someone else lol

 

[dj.]

The next person to post is a big girls blouse!

 

[Pike]

Question:

You still haven't explained how spawning a spaceship relates to owning a spaceship. Can you please explain this? Once more, my low IQ is obviously incapable of working this out.

Answer:

Just because you can do something doesn't mean it is right to do it. Is this in simple enough terms for you to understand?

No, this is not in simple enough terms for me to understand.

If you are going to quote me, at least have the decency to post the question you are endevouring to answer. I use the word endevour for want of a better word as you have clearly just ignored the question, or answered a question I did not ask. Please, read my question again and then read your answer... Does it actually make any sense to you?


Am I a big girls blouse or did someone beat me to it?