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Spaceship ethics.

Well done Pike, I have updated my sig accordingly for all to see.

..and I post often! :laugh:

:yay: :D :yay:
 
In all fairness ... I thought I would share the response I received from MA Support as a result of asking for a definitive answer with regard to spacecrafts coming from anything other than a miner's bomb or probe. This is a cut 'n' paste job, right? :laugh:

Support Case 140047 history

22 Apr 2008 You wrote:
Would you be kind enough to give me a definitive answer as to whether or not a spacecraft that pays 50 ped as a result of clicking on the red button (with a potential beacon in the loot) is spawned by any other means than by miners who drop a bomb or probe?

Thank you very much,
MindStar9


23 Apr 2008 Entropia Support:
Hi,

MindArk PE AB provides the software Entropia Universe, a platform where the Participants are free to choose the course of action they wish to pursue. Since it is up to each participant to shape his/her experience, the Entropia Universe does not come with an advanced manual. The Support Department personnel are working with technical support only and therefore we cannot reveal information regarding the Entropia Universe in-world dynamics. For information, please check the 'Participant Guide' on the website. For further hints and advice; try asking other participants and/or check out the Entropia Universe-related community sites.

We hope you have a great time in the Entropia Universe!

Kind regards,

Entropia Support
Click to expand...


I found it rather interesting ... but as a final word on my part, I am withdrawing terms like "stealing" and "thievery" etc., because in reading all the posts in this thread, it gave me more to think about. However, that being said, I still believe that spacecrafts come from nothing other than a miner's bomb or probe that produces the strange signal, and also that just because the dynamics of a game allow you to behave in certain ways, it doesn't mean that you need to choose to because you can get away with it.

We all have our personal standards of behavior ... and at the end of the day, it's a matter of choice with regard to how we treat others. If, in our own minds we can justify our actions and live with them, then nothing else "personally" matters, and those on the receiving end of our actions and behaviors will just have to sort it out the best they can.








***
 
STYRM said:
yes I played wow for some days and hated it.. so I stopped playing. I know that you need alot of rl skills in games and you would not get anywhere if you didn't have those skills. I have played alot of fps games in my life and I learned the things that made me better. but thats a game, and a game is supposed to give us rewards if we get more skilled.. EU aint such a game, but many ppl seems to believe that. this is a virtual universe were you can choose to be evil if you want as long that you follow the rules of MA. It is allowed to profit on other ppl just like irl. ok we don't kill eachother irl....oh yes we do.. and we do scam irl...and we do steal others property irl... and we are greedy irl... so if you want another fantasy world to live in where no one can't hurt you, go play wow...
Click to expand...

What you state is fair enough Styrm.
Actually i would like to add that of all the attitudes put forward in this thread that is diametrical to my own, yours is the one i most admire, and would say respect also.
It is transparent, honest, up front and rigid, but the most important part is it appears truthful.
No ego just attitude, i like it.
+ rep mate :)

Joser said:
Wow. I take it you participated in both LG and the WoF? Otherwise I see no way you could realize the actual organization involved. Either know what you're talking about first-hand, or kindly excuse yourself.
Click to expand...


Hi Joser, you are a very presumptive person arent you.
If i give you the benefit of the doubt and go along with YOUR line of reasoning, how do you know what i know?

That aside, having done some high level raids in WOW i can not imagine there is any requirement in EU as yet that requires the organisation of resources that takes place in Raids in WOW by the larger Guilds.

Regards
 
Cloud said:
Hi Joser, you are a very presumptive person arent you.
If i give you the benefit of the doubt and go along with YOUR line of reasoning, how do you know what i know?

That aside, having done some high level raids in WOW i can not imagine there is any requirement in EU as yet that requires the organisation of resources that takes place in Raids in WOW by the larger Guilds.

Regards
Click to expand...

Just as presumptive as you've shown me. Now do you follow the logic? ;)

Edit: Just because you can't imagine anything being as organized as that doesn't mean it doesn't exist here. Long ago great scientist minds couldn't imagine the world being anything other than flat... we've come a long way from there.
 
One more thing... honestly tell me that I assumed wrong, and I'll take back what I said. If I assumed right, well... what more can I say?
 
STYRM said:
yes, good for you...

but you have to take in consideration that this is a mmoRPG.. ROLE PLAYING GAME. a guy could be the best freind ever irl, but he might have a dark side in MMORPG's

just like Batman or something.. he is a regular guy in the days but at night he becomes KYLL KYLLINGBEIN or someone else lol
Click to expand...

Yes as in your statement it will tell us a lot about the person because as in your example the general behavoir is not changed - a good guy is mostly also a good guy in the ROLE PLAYING GAME and someone doing the the other stuff most likely has also this attitude in real live.
 
Joser said:
One more thing... honestly tell me that I assumed wrong, and I'll take back what I said. If I assumed right, well... what more can I say?
Click to expand...


Mate, i dont lie, call it a character flaw ;)

I have some knowledge on WoF, i only have a perception of the organisation required for Land Grab and i have some knowledge of high level Instance raids in WOW.
So there's your answer, all truth.

Separately, i believe that if you knew what was involved in the high level instances in WOW you wouldnt be debating this with me, at all.

I may be wrong, who knows, and most likely who really cares :)

Just to show you how your use of your analogy is ineffective too, there was also a guy who perceived that the world was round, but there were guys telling him that he was wrong, when in actual fact he was right.
He imagined something and based on that he put it forward,and he was right.Oh my gosh!
Some people can be right in what they perceive if based on sound reasoning and adequate stimuli.
So the analogy you put forth can go both ways.Maybe best to use a GOOD analogy next time,lol.

I also think you are way, way more presumptive than me ;p
You presume to know what people think ;)

Hmm, should i ask for your reply to 'how do you know what i know'?
Oh, doesnt matter, we all know you dont know,lol.

Cheers
 
Raffaele Meiers said:
Yes as in your statement it will tell us a lot about the person because as in your example the general behavoir is not changed - a good guy is mostly also a good guy in the ROLE PLAYING GAME and someone doing the the other stuff most likely has also this attitude in real live.
Click to expand...

so...... is it illegal to be a bad guy irl, or in a mmorpg? and do you have anything that can back that statement of yours?

do you believe that harald spezialmaterial really is a transvestite irl? I don't.. that is roleplaying for you.
 
STYRM said:
so...... is it illegal to be a bad guy irl, or in a mmorpg? and do you have anything that can back that statement of yours?

do you believe that harald spezialmaterial really is a transvestite irl? I don't.. that is roleplaying for you.
Click to expand...

Why should I prove your argument? :) It was you who brought the Batman analogy and also in comics good guy have also a good moral in their real live identity and the bad ones where also bad in their real live identity, if you ask I or anyone who read comics can give you a multitude of examples...

I did not say anything about sexual oriantation and anyone who really plays EU knows that nearly all male who have a female avatar have choosen this because of cheaper armor part cost.

Strange how you try to wind out of your own argument, Batman/Real Live Caracter. But we have a saying:

Wenn man dem Hund auf den Schwanz tritt dann bellt er.
If you step a dog on his tail he bark.


I do not mind if you try to be a bad guy in EU but do not count on others to treat you fair when you are here to play the bad guy.

And as stated bevor there are differences like others pointed out...


PS:
I do not think it is possible to be in real live a nice and fair person and in MMPORG a bad and unfair person, your real caracter will allways come trough in the end. But as all I wrote it is my opinion and you are certainly entiteled on your own.

PPS:


dutch chap said:
...
Waiting for the miner is fair but if he takes ages or doens't show up...
As it is fair and sportsmens like to wait till i finished a mob before you PK me.
As it is fair to NOT shoot a mob someone is busy with, but that unattended mob in his vicinity is fair game. etc. etc.
Click to expand...
There are like in RL unwritten rules and written rules and the things above are for me as important as the EULA of MA.
 
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Raffaele Meiers said:
I do not think it is possible to be in real live a nice and fair person and in MMPORG a bad and unfair person, your real caracter will allways come trough in the end. But as all I wrote it is my opinion and you are certainly entiteled on your own.
Click to expand...

lol..
ok you can believe what ever you want..
can I ask you where you heard about this? who said that if your a nice guy irl your gonna be a nice guy in mmo's?

I know several nice guys irl and all of them has atleast one evil avatar in different games..
 
Why is everyone so serious, discussion who owns a silly space ship…I really enjoy all 3 ships I found so far (especially the hunt for it) and they where all by mining, an mining is what I mostly do.
Honestly WHO wouldN't push the red button on a ship if you found one?
Especially when MA state it belong to the one that push the button, and everyone can push the button so what is the problem?

Please MA don't listen to the whiners', and leave it as it is = more fun …
 
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STYRM said:
lol..
ok you can believe what ever you want..
can I ask you where you heard about this? who said that if your a nice guy irl your gonna be a nice guy in mmo's?

I know several nice guys irl and all of them has atleast one evil avatar in different games..
Click to expand...

ROFL you also are alowed to belive what you want.

Once again the real person will allways shine trough...

for example as dutch cap nicely summed up here again if you do not find it:

Waiting for the miner is fair but if he takes ages or doens't show up...
As it is fair and sportsmens like to wait till i finished a mob before you PK me.
As it is fair to NOT shoot a mob someone is busy with, but that unattended mob in his vicinity is fair game. etc. etc.

evil stays evil and fair stays fair if in real live or in mmo's it allways will surface or do you think scammers in EU are nice and honest persons in real live?
 
Raffaele Meiers said:
evil stays evil and fair stays fair if in real live or in mmo's it allways will surface or do you think scammers in EU are nice and honest persons in real live?
Click to expand...

I think you are mostly right here. How ever I belive the anonymity your avatar permits does tend to degrade peoples "ethics" a bit in general. Ofcours there are allways exceptions.

Oh, and I find a IRL good guy playing a bad guy far more likley the a IRL bad guy playing a good guy :D
 
If I found a ship hypoteticaly, no green dot visible, and as some have suggest I wait some minutes to see if an avatar show up.....
and it dose, he say hello and click the button :yay: and run away laughing :rolleyes:

...is it me that am retarded but I don't see that I have been nice or unevil...even if a red dot apear on a finder is that not a claim, nothing you can proof to another avatar that it is yours - so all this that the miner own it is nothing else then bullshit.

But I like this thread, nice to follow especailly since we talking about EVIL player, that show that many player has real BALLS to talk about serious maters, well to my opinion to serious....scammers are maybe evil but honestly a ship looter?
 
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Well, it happened to me today... I claimed a V-Claim Lyst, dropped a probe and got a strange signal. I checked my radar and saw some green dots. So i said to my self, better hurry... Well, ruskea was 2 seconds faster than me... Gratz to your Global and the 29 PED-Beacon ;) Sorry if i insulted you, but that mining run was just horrible... So i thought, nice, 50 PED are very appreciated. Well, i must admit that i was furious, but after reading some posts about the miner being just the trigger, not the owner, i calmed down :)

It was just bad luck, i guess... But after i missed the RSC my claims got better^^ 4 IX-Claims in a row. So i broke even on this run at least^^

But thanks for the thrill, MindArk ;)
 
i'm too lazy to read the whole thread but nevertheless will attempt to sum up what i think are the main points. :laugh:

1. there's an agreement that grabbing any spaceship is perfectly legal.

2. there's absolutely no agreement as to what is ethical.

3. the issue causes more debate (and more flaming) than sweat prices, item splitting in team hunts and kill stealing combined.

conclusion. MA would be better off to alter the system so we all could get back to producing decay. :)

disclaimer. i was able to examine all... em, both spaceships i've found as they were in pretty remote locations. i have examined no other spaceships.
 
Dorsai said:
Only MA know how and why they spawn.

While there is much anecdotal evidence that a miner causes a ship to spawn, it's not known if that is what actually happens.

Assuming the "miner creates the ship" to be true, then I agree on a time limit.

As it seems commonly accepted that the miner in normally no more than 200M away when a ship is found (or spawned) and that it takes about 2 mins to run that far, I think an hour is a bit much.

15 minutes sounds better. In that time you can go to storage, get better armour on, get your best weapons, get best fap, get soc support, TP back, kick robot ass, and loot it.

If you cant do it in 15, you probably cant do it at all......
Click to expand...
5 minutes max...
And, i don't know if that counts anything for the evidences of spaceships being spawned by miners, but one time i was running NE, across the river on the TI allo zone, ran about 200 meters from the place i came out of the water, dropped a bomb, detected a strange thing SW... a spacecraft and 2 robots roaming the shore exactly where i came from... there was nothing there 1-2 minutes before.
 
elcid said:
Well, it happened to me today... I claimed a V-Claim Lyst, dropped a probe and got a strange signal. I checked my radar and saw some green dots. So i said to my self, better hurry... Well, ruskea was 2 seconds faster than me... Gratz to your Global and the 29 PED-Beacon ;) Sorry if i insulted you, but that mining run was just horrible... So i thought, nice, 50 PED are very appreciated. Well, i must admit that i was furious, but after reading some posts about the miner being just the trigger, not the owner, i calmed down :)

It was just bad luck, i guess... But after i missed the RSC my claims got better^^ 4 IX-Claims in a row. So i broke even on this run at least^^

But thanks for the thrill, MindArk ;)
Click to expand...

hahaaaa i knew i could find ur whining from here :DDD thx for 400ped beacon.. next time be faster...

was fisting those newblet mobs there and then saw a spawn on my screen and checked what was it and it was drone so i knew immediately i need to hurry :FFF

and btw i havent got any bigger beacons than 23 before from about 14 ships.. so no wonder i got 29ped now coz i stole it from u...
 
Naifas Anaconda said:
5 minutes max...
And, i don't know if that counts anything for the evidences of spaceships being spawned by miners, but one time i was running NE, across the river on the TI allo zone, ran about 200 meters from the place i came out of the water, dropped a bomb, detected a strange thing SW... a spacecraft and 2 robots roaming the shore exactly where i came from... there was nothing there 1-2 minutes before.
Click to expand...

yes the ships spawn from drop of a bomb.. i have some clear proofs.. like todays steal when the ship spawned right next to me after a guy dropped a bomb.. but i already knew it before

found one ship my finder couldnt detect and found one ship from a path guy just ran (mined) 10sec ago
 
To me this is no dif than a lone hunter spending 500 ped out hunting an area just to have some1 tp out and get a hof. u know that hunter put that hof in the loot pool and some1 else got it. another ex. would be if u run out of ammo and cant finish a mob so some1 waits for the hp to reach over half and get a nice loot. if u didnt loot it its not urs and thats all there is too it. if they did put a limit on it why not give hunters the exclusive rights to the mob they cause to spawn. if they didnt hunt then there would be no loot. if the miners dont drop bombs then there is no spacecraft. its dynamic u all pay and everyone gets a chance at it no matter how much u put in it. dont get me wrong i dont take these and the only time iv seen one in person i cleared a path so my soc mate could claim it as he saw it first and called me in to help him after 20+ min he finaly got back to get it this gave me no claim to the loot he got and i didnt expect it. he didnt drop the bomb but no1 else showed up in this amount of time and if they did i would have claimed it to give to him. i have healed people as they hunt so they dont die but this gives me no claim to the loot they get. no relation? i spent my money keeping this person alive if not for me then they would not have gotten this loot. miners spend their money to spawn the craft so if not for the miner then they would not have gotten the ship. in this game its first come first serve. i agree there should be more morals ingame but there arent and wont ever be on a large scale. another way of putting it is if u goto a casino and spend ur money what gives u a right to money some1 else wins? yet another hunting example is a hunter with a bravo hunting argo and one with an opalo. why shouldnt the hunter with the bravo waisting so much more than the opalo get a claim to the hof. he spawned the loot. answer is because this isnt a who spends the most gets the most game. MA went to court to prove that it wasnt. so if miners get claims to the ship wouldnt it be? if hunters got claims to the hof before they loot it wouldnt it be? how can these be related u say? it spawned therfore its fair game to anyone passing by. miners already have a distinct advantage by having claims in the first place and by having instant loots of things like the angel feathers. where as hunters have to fight each other over their loots. even crafting is unfair in the same manner. some1 makes settler shins another makes ghost if the settler gets the hof u know it was the ghost crafter that gave the money to the loot pool. my point is why should miners be treated different than the rest of us? why should they get claims to something they spawned when the rest of us dont? not to mention they have the advantage of the detector pointing them strait to it. why doesnt my gun show me to the hof? it wouldnt be fair to the rest of the hunters just because i spent more than them would it? sorry for this rant but it really does seem not different to me. i wouldnt take a craft if i seen a miner on his way strait to it but i also wouldnt leave it to some1 else if i didnt see anyone around in a few min.
 
ruskea said:
hahaaaa i knew i could find ur whining from here :DDD thx for 400ped beacon.. next time be faster...

was fisting those newblet mobs there and then saw a spawn on my screen and checked what was it and it was drone so i knew immediately i need to hurry :FFF

and btw i havent got any bigger beacons than 23 before from about 14 ships.. so no wonder i got 29ped now coz i stole it from u...
Click to expand...

You must be so lonely IRL, I almost feel sorry for you :(

Gratz on your beacon, but I can see now why you have the rep you do.
Here's hoping you get yours eventually.
 
ruskea said:
hahaaaa i knew i could find ur whining from here :DDD thx for 400ped beacon.. next time be faster...

was fisting those newblet mobs there and then saw a spawn on my screen and checked what was it and it was drone so i knew immediately i need to hurry :FFF

and btw i havent got any bigger beacons than 23 before from about 14 ships.. so no wonder i got 29ped now coz i stole it from u...
Click to expand...

Well, actually my post wasn't about whining, but about how i felt and how i changed up my mind. Seeing your reputation, i didn't expect any other than this post. Artrat is totaly right.
 
I dunno, my friend found 2 spaceships randomly near Orthos and it really helped him get started in the game....So I can't quite say I'd like this feature :D
 
ever heard of kill stealing? I've seen players using big toys gunning down other players mob and taking the loot. Especially during the times when people use to skill on tantardions (when they were just harmless punching bags) and some guy comes with adj.v1 and cause a mess.

This miner and the signal is exactly the same, it belongs to the miner in the sense that the mob a hunter is trying to kill belongs to him and the loot ofc.

The timer is a good idea to give miners a small but not complete advantage over the signal.
 
ruskea said:
hahaaaa i knew i could find ur whining from here :DDD thx for 400ped beacon.. next time be faster...

was fisting those newblet mobs there and then saw a spawn on my screen and checked what was it and it was drone so i knew immediately i need to hurry :FFF

and btw i havent got any bigger beacons than 23 before from about 14 ships.. so no wonder i got 29ped now coz i stole it from u...
Click to expand...

The Avatar pic
The emmense red rep
Pretty much every single post you ever write

and now this proves to me what an asshole you are, whether its just Ruskea who's the asshole and not the person behind the keyboard, it's impossible to say, although I have my opinion on it !!!
 
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ruskea said:
hahaaaa i knew i could find ur whining from here :DDD thx for 400ped beacon.. next time be faster...

was fisting those newblet mobs there and then saw a spawn on my screen and checked what was it and it was drone so i knew immediately i need to hurry :FFF

and btw i havent got any bigger beacons than 23 before from about 14 ships.. so no wonder i got 29ped now coz i stole it from u...
Click to expand...

You know i got bit higher oppinion about you, thanks for pointing out my mistake so clearly. :rolleyes:
 
Artrat said:
You must be so lonely IRL, I almost feel sorry for you :(

Gratz on your beacon, but I can see now why you have the rep you do.
Here's hoping you get yours eventually.
Click to expand...

im not really lonely irl.. this is just a fucking game what it has to do with RL? can i ask that from u.. not like i would steal my friends or anyones car irl

and if MA made the spacecrafts work that way why the fuck u whine that i did wrong.. i dont really give a shit.. finally found a way to make profit in this game.. and it doesnt cost anything..
 
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