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Stop the ATHs!

ATHs are just part of it. I don't hate that they are happening and for the most part I am happy for whomever gets one.

Maybe one day I will be lucky enough to see my name there once again....last time I saw my name there I think it was 2005. Funny 2K ped allo I will never forget that's for sure.

That being said while I would totally freak out getting an ATH, my day to day in EU is just trying to keep ye ole ped card growing. Focus on that and less on the big ones then maybe someday your time will come ATH ped or itemwise or maybe both.

Posted via Mobile Device
 
I think the game would have more appeal overall if players felt that even on a bad day, they could put in 50$, hunt at their level on whatever mob they choose, and get several hours of fun out of it without losing more than 10-20$...

Less players would have that final stinker of a hunt where they decide to leave, and there would be less negativity in the community...

If MA could take away 90% of the loots above 15k ped to accomplish this, i'd be all for it...
 
lilac said:
snip!
Click to expand...

I totally and wholeheartedly agree with this post :)

If I had a greater chance of breaking even on a run, there's a higher possibility that I'd deposit a bit more to get it. I hate low odds, they don't exactly encourage me :silly2:

That would be a moot point though if I don't receive the new replacement GC that MA/FPC sent me. :laugh:

- Nightwolf
 
There seems to be a bit of confusion here as to where MA gets their money and where loot comes from. There are statements FROM MA that will tell you exactly what they take out and what is left in the game as 'player held funds'. Use search, it's awesome. Ma gets their money from decay (no, they don't just run away with your depo and buy a new car)... and correct me if I'm wrong but the more you hunt, mine, whatever, the more your items decay.

If MA made ATH's and ubers more rare and gave a better ROI in general then people could cycle a deposit longer. This would result in MORE DECAY and hence more money for MA. If 1 person gets a 95k ATH is he/she going to become so much more active that it would result in more decay than if 95 people got 1k ped? If even just 80% ROI was the norm that 1k ped could last quite a good while for those 95 people.

This is what I don't understand about MA. If they spread the loot they'd be fattening their own wallets and yet they don't.

Reduce uber loots, increase average loots and you get two things:

1) Increased average play time for a given amount of PED

2) That same PED cycled more meaning more decay per PED deposited

Players happier, MA's bottom line unchanged or probably even better than it was.
 
Zorander said:
There seems to be a bit of confusion here as to where MA gets their money and where loot comes from. There are statements FROM MA that will tell you exactly what they take out and what is left in the game as 'player held funds'. Use search, it's awesome. Ma gets their money from decay (no, they don't just run away with your depo and buy a new car)... and correct me if I'm wrong but the more you hunt, mine, whatever, the more your items decay.

If MA made ATH's and ubers more rare and gave a better ROI in general then people could cycle a deposit longer. This would result in MORE DECAY and hence more money for MA. If 1 person gets a 95k ATH is he/she going to become so much more active that it would result in more decay than if 95 people got 1k ped? If even just 80% ROI was the norm that 1k ped could last quite a good while for those 95 people.

This is what I don't understand about MA. If they spread the loot they'd be fattening their own wallets and yet they don't.

Reduce uber loots, increase average loots and you get two things:

1) Increased average play time for a given amount of PED

2) That same PED cycled more meaning more decay per PED deposited

Players happier, MA's bottom line unchanged or probably even better than it was.
Click to expand...

Thats its just what i tryed to tell MA for years but they dont use the brain only theres greed.:laugh:
 
I like the idea of the ATH though I don't put my hopes up for one.

I find it awesome that some people get them - but I also have to admit, that if MA turned down the ATH a little (making them a little smaller) and by that makes more people happy by making the overall loot better, that would indeed be something I would love to see too.

You can't have it all thought. The loot pool has x% loot in it and if x amount ATH has been 'won' there's only x% left to share from the pool ...

Dunno - gratz to the peeps who got one so far :birthday:
 
Meg said:
Once upon a time, the word (from MA) was that the mega loots is separate cash.

Earmarked so to speak. Can and will never go to anything other than megaloots.

The possibility to turn adverts off reflected this.

Yes it takes money from the grand total but no it will never be used to boost average return.

It's advertizing cash, from MA to every user (more commonly seen in torture and brainwash scenarios where you get fed the same info over and over until it's true, why you cannot turn off the hof-feed).
Click to expand...


/from another thread just like this, also currently active/

In other words - the game company will never shop 95 small posters and hang everywhere, when a 95 by 95 size poster gets so much more attention.
 
lilac said:
I think the game would have more appeal overall if players felt that even on a bad day, they could put in 50$, hunt at their level on whatever mob they choose, and get several hours of fun out of it without losing more than 10-20$...

Less players would have that final stinker of a hunt where they decide to leave, and there would be less negativity in the community...

If MA could take away 90% of the loots above 15k ped to accomplish this, i'd be all for it...
Click to expand...

you can do excactly that
 
Originally Posted by Meg
Once upon a time, the word (from MA) was that the mega loots is separate cash.

Earmarked so to speak. Can and will never go to anything other than megaloots.

The possibility to turn adverts off reflected this.

Yes it takes money from the grand total but no it will never be used to boost average return.

It's advertizing cash, from MA to every user (more commonly seen in torture and brainwash scenarios where you get fed the same info over and over until it's true, why you cannot turn off the hof-feed).


Who has been drinking at MA this time.:laugh:
 
People seem to be focused on the size of the ATH. It is indeed a problem since it is disproportional when compared to the average returns.I think the real problem goes much deeper.
In 2005, MA had a 2.3 times smaller net income compared to 2009. However, the ATH sizes were 10 times smaller compared to nowadays. Has MA's profit moved accordingly ? No. But let's consider 2009 as being struck by lightening and refer to 2008 instead. 79 mil net income vs 28 mil in 2005. Roughly a 2.8 times increase. However, 2008 had 8 times bigger ATH's than 2005.
If the system redistributes the individual losses of all, it is clearly a phenomenon of increase in activity ( much more decay payed ) and an old approach on pay-off that has not been re-dimensioned on the current number of players. However, if the volume of activity is determining the uber-looters that means several high-rollers will indeed "eat" the whole surplus when the time comes.
I'm assuming at this moment that the uber pools should be re-designed since the overall decrease in decay ( generated by the eco frenzy ) is also the main cause for the tt rollers to statistically seize the odds for payback ( they are "claiming" the loots at this moment by means of more time online x same base eco with small variations ). It might be a good idea to limit the maximum online time possible for an account per day, maybe take it down to a level of 8-12 hours tops.
 
The following only applies to hunting.

Since "ATH"'s are a fluent size in the sense that its "just" the top 100 biggest loots ever.. I have taken the liberty of saying +30000 PED loots as "ATH loots"..


Since the tracker started (2008) we have recorded 81 loots over 30000 PED with a total sum of 3.749.357 PED... Since the tracker started the total sum of "loot" in hunting is: 201.535.027 PED.

Hence "the REALLY big loots" accounts for 1.8% of the total turnover.
If there were to be no ATH's at all and the "ATH value" was to be split out into your loots it is therefore easy to argue that your loot would on average increase by roughly 2%.


So the real question is.. Would you rather on average get 2% better return.. or do you want the chance of a +30.000 PED loot....

I vote for keeping the ATH's....
 
good!!!! .... this puts an end to threads of this kind


Starfinder said:
The following only applies to hunting.

Since "ATH"'s are a fluent size in the sense that its "just" the top 100 biggest loots ever.. I have taken the liberty of saying +30000 PED loots as "ATH loots"..


Since the tracker started (2008) we have recorded 81 loots over 30000 PED with a total sum of 3.749.357 PED... Since the tracker started the total sum of "loot" in hunting is: 201.535.027 PED.

Hence "the REALLY big loots" accounts for 1.8% of the total turnover.
If there were to be no ATH's at all and the "ATH value" was to be split out into your loots it is therefore easy to argue that your loot would on average increase by roughly 2%.


So the real question is.. Would you rather on average get 2% better return.. or do you want the chance of a +30.000 PED loot....

I vote for keeping the ATH's....
Click to expand...
 
Starfinder said:
The following only applies to hunting.

Since "ATH"'s are a fluent size in the sense that its "just" the top 100 biggest loots ever.. I have taken the liberty of saying +30000 PED loots as "ATH loots"..


Since the tracker started (2008) we have recorded 81 loots over 30000 PED with a total sum of 3.749.357 PED... Since the tracker started the total sum of "loot" in hunting is: 201.535.027 PED.

Hence "the REALLY big loots" accounts for 1.8% of the total turnover.
If there were to be no ATH's at all and the "ATH value" was to be split out into your loots it is therefore easy to argue that your loot would on average increase by roughly 2%.


So the real question is.. Would you rather on average get 2% better return.. or do you want the chance of a +30.000 PED loot....

I vote for keeping the ATH's....
Click to expand...

... nah. I'm aiming at the whole system of in-game payment not just the mere ATH which indeed, is rather pathetic in comparison to the whole of the payment funds. ATH's have a single problem so far. They are the natural result of a bad design being fed by human greed. The increase in tt is a problem. Say, the real sums should be 50% of what we see now. That means , in case of a 100k ath, 50k would be re-distributed amongst players. These 50k could bear the form of many items with mark-up. Maybe even a 25% average mark-up. That would mean 12.5k+50k = 62.5k ped to cover some losses or 125 runs of 500 peds or 208 runs of 300 peds. The next ATH will be coming faster, the risk of withdrawal goes down, more people get a shot at having some more balance in retruns.
Gamblers would indeed hate it ...

PS: ATH size is an effect, on the causal thread its implications can be ignored at a large scale. However, the ignored impact generates an additional negative flow for EU each time an over-sized ATH/loot occurs.
PS2: I am talking of the REAL money vs the virtual ones, not tracker turnovers, which are completely irrelevant in terms of evaluations since they maybe account for 25% of the total in-flows . I'm using some PED data ONLY to show there is some aberration in the virtual system.
 
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One more ATH for me (or 2) and then STOP ATHs please!..really
 
Starfinder said:
Since the tracker started (2008) we have recorded 81 loots over 30000 PED with a total sum of 3.749.357 PED... Since the tracker started the total sum of "loot" in hunting is: 201.535.027 PED.
Click to expand...


Your calculation is wrong. Its not the sheer amount of peds at stake.

You need to calculate - the multiplier above 4000x (arbitrary)- thats actual ATH (multiplier is something what multiplies PEDs spent killing MOB).

Examples:

0.1 ped to kill snablesnot young male -> 400+ PED snable young is ATH sizes snable

0.5 PED to kill molisk young -> 2000+ PED molisk is ATH sized molisk

1 PED to kill drone 3 -> 4000+ PED drone is ath sized drone

3 PED to kill young atrox -> 12k+ PED atrox is ATH sized atrox

8 PED to kill hogglo young -> 32k+ PED hogglo is ATH sized hogglo

See?

It puts things in different perspective. You cant look at just uber mobs - when there are around 10 ppl hunting them daily ;) If you say - there are 81 ATHs in 2 years - and only 5% ppl can hunt those mobs it actually translates your total hunting loot to 1/20 of the value = 10M ped... therefore ATHs as u interpret them are actually 37% more loot.

So this is a question to ask yourself:

"Do you whish to let go of ATHs in order to gain 37% better average loot" ;)

Sounds a bit different then your question doesnt it?

I.
 
Igorl said:
Your calculation is wrong. Its not the sheer amount of peds at stake.

You need to calculate - the multiplier above 4000x (arbitrary)- thats actual ATH (multiplier is something what multiplies PEDs spent killing MOB).

Examples:

0.1 ped to kill snablesnot young male -> 400+ PED snable young is ATH sizes snable

0.5 PED to kill molisk young -> 2000+ PED molisk is ATH sized molisk

1 PED to kill drone 3 -> 4000+ PED drone is ath sized drone

3 PED to kill young atrox -> 12k+ PED atrox is ATH sized atrox

8 PED to kill hogglo young -> 32k+ PED hogglo is ATH sized hogglo

See?

It puts things in different perspective. You cant look at just uber mobs - when there are around 10 ppl hunting them daily ;) If you say - there are 81 ATHs in 2 years - and only 5% ppl can hunt those mobs it actually translates your total hunting loot to 1/20 of the value = 10M ped... therefore ATHs as u interpret them are actually 37% more loot.

So this is a question to ask yourself:

"Do you whish to let go of ATHs in order to gain 37% better average loot" ;)

Sounds a bit different then your question doesnt it?

I.
Click to expand...
Im not quite sure you can do it that way.
Either you have to look at the total global value / "ATH" value for that mob... or as a generic "average value"... I made it as a generic average value.

If you want it to be for "Atrax" (no difference in maturity - stalkers VERY rarely uber).. and we look at loots over 4K ... the total value of all globals is:
2.231.824 PED
The value for atrax over 4K is:
275.281 PED

Hence 12% of all loot paied out on Atrax is paied out as loot over 4000 PED.
To keep it in the "stop the ATH spirit" we can also look at loots over 30.000 PED for atrax where we have a total sum of 0 PED paied out....

So.. for there to be "no ATH's on atrax" the loot would not increase by any percent.. but if we were to have no "+4K loots" the globals would increase by ~12%.....

If we do the same math for Aurli:
Total loot: 15.589.082 PED
+4K loot: 1.405.720 PED
"no +4K increase": 9%
+30K loot: 665.595 PED
"no ATH loot": ~4%...





Regarding the +Rep ... yes.. it is only the glowies that will increase by 2%..
 
(Again) Big loot = company advert cash. It will not go away.

I mean to say that when it comes to upping average returns etc, it's an impossible argument.

I'd love to
get rid of all loot above 1k,
hide the HOFs in chat,
make the global PED limit of 50 mean something again,
rid the newfangled No Loot,
let the MU be my gain instead of slight loss recovery,
throw away every last piece of L gear like they were never introduced,
see good gear drop fairly frequently,
lower mob hp regen,
kill off the crafting autoclick market like it was 2004
and
make it a playable game again
- but however hard I wish, it will not happen.
 
I agree with OP

I think way too much money is being pumped into ATHs which should be distributed more evenly around the loot table (like a bunch of 1k HoFs)

:twocents: :)
 
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